Thailand to get tough on foreigners working without work permits, employers also targeted

[Bastos60]

16 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

 

It depends on where you are when work (that the company makes) is physically performed.. If you are in Thailand, working online, the labour department has been absolutely clear. That kind of working online needs a work permit. 

If your income is from royalties, annuities, or other passive income. No it doesnt, however if you are in Thailand more than 183 days per year it still needs to be declared and potentially owe taxes on it depending on what year it is remitted into the kingdom. 

I have to agree here. You are allowed to bring work with you while you are on holiday.  But staying in Thailand all year without going home for work is very questionable. 
Chances you get caught working online from your condo/hotel are very very slim, but you only need one annoyed Thai to report you.

[little mary sunshine]

34 minutes ago, The Dark Lord said:

No miss sunshine, it is far better to go home, do nothing, get the state to pay for everything even topping up your OAP contributions, get free medical and dental, subsidised transport then at a later date come back out. 

 

Dint know now if you are British or not and not overly concerned but when the currency tanks, for whatever reason, by over 20% almost overnight it is time to  review the apparent cheapness of living here. 

 

I certainly do do not consider it cheap to pay either 380% import duty based on original price for a ten year old car nor paying Bht 4.5 mio ( roughly £105k) for a car that costs me £40k in the UK, nor do I find it particularly cheap to pay ten times more than my wife pays to go into a dirty government run park. I do not find it cheap either to pay medical and dental bills that are not covered by insurance.

 

I was made made redundant at age 50 from an international company and though I was a senior manager with more than enough qualifications , it has been a massive task to try and find employment coming across ageism at almost every step. I decided to move out here and not be a burden on the already over burdened state. My reward is to get ( in the fullness of time) a frozen pension from the government whom I am trying not to burden. That same government is happy however to rape me annually in taxes for providing properties for people who cannot afford to buy their own. 

 

Do you you honestly think it would be better for me to go home? It would certainly, in the long run, cost both the government the taxpayer ( almost the same) and me a shed sight more if I did. 

First of all, how many cars do you buy?  You buy a second hand

small Toyota, do proper maintenance, maintenances is cheap here

and it should last years.

 

Monthly expenses are 60-70% cheaper here than in North America, no

heat in the Winter.  No extre Winter clothes.  My apartment is beautiful,

same 78 sq meter apt for the past 6 years, B 10,000 Owner never

imcreases the rent.  As for Medical ame Dental I believe I have spent

about $350 in six years, maybe $400.  I exercise daily and try to eat

healthy,  I have an emergence fund for medical, I am self insured and

add $100 to it each month instead of insurance premiums ( fund now

exceeds B 400,000). So if I become ill I will go to a fine government

hospital.

 

I have not compromised my standard of living, eat out 90% of the time,

run the air when it's humid, enjoy the pool travel and get back to North

America twice each year.  For me, working 45+ years has paid off, I

enjoyed my work and currently are having a Wonderful Retirement and

Are not concerned with the cost of anything in Thailand.

 

Can't say what would be better for anyone else, I prepared for my non

working years and so far So good.

 

[Bastos60]

2 hours ago, jspill said:

There are those third party soundbites you always link to again. Alleged quotes from individual members of staff in 2010 and 2014. I could create a website and type up the opposite. There's nothing official from the horse's mouth. 

 

You've been linking to those and only those for almost a decade in these kind of threads yet here I am still working online.

 

Many explain to immigration / consulates exactly what they do, run an online business, and get approved for visas / let through borders still to this day. The DOL never gets mentioned and doesn't seem to actively be doing anything. No one has ever said to me oh you need to join an umbrella company either.

 

Even if it is illegal clearly they don't care because we're not harming anyone and if it ever became a priority for them they'd create a new e-visa status for us, ask us to move to that, and have us pay whatever fees to continue doing what we're doing. 

 

Hardly the crime of the century is it. 

They still assume you are on holiday for the period of time that your visa allows you to stay and you are allowed to work online while you are on holiday in Thailand, as long as you are on holiday.  The online work has to limited to the work you perform at home/company in your country of residence. It can not involve any type of business in Thailand though.
If you have an online business that happens to have Thai customers buy products, that is fine, but if you run an online business where you provide a service that involves Thai business then you need a work permit.

 

Although I never had any work permits or was involved with work you need a work permit for, I was previously employed for a pharmaceutical company that had a branch office in Bangkok. Going to deliver a set of documents to that office was allowed, attending a meeting held in Cambridge from our Bangkok office was not allowed (unless you arrived with a business visa) but I could attend that meeting without a problem from a hotel room. The last time I was in that office to bring some harddisks (systems were managed from the UK), 
the reception in the tower the office was located in, The Offices at Central World, reported me.  Police arrived while I was just leaving. After that, anyone that went to Bangkok applied for business visa if they needed to do anything from that office.

[little mary sunshine]

1 hour ago, Golden Triangle said:

You are talking B******S, I was made redundant, took the money and the pension (Civil Service Gold plated) that was offered, I had some savings and a lump from my late mother, finished work one week, feet up and relaxing in Thailand the following week, I would have stayed on in work until normal retirement age but could not, I get the State Pension next year, sorted thank you very much.  

 

 

Not every Brit just the over abundance of them I happen to encounter!

[brewsterbudgen]

And in Europe they have the right to vote in local elections, married to a local or not. Can you imagine that here? No, I thought not.

Seeing as there is no democracy in Thailand, the right to vote is not very relevant!

I can't really see how this is new news. It's always been illegal to work without a work permit.

[kwilco]

On 6/27/2017 at 4:40 PM, robblok said:

 

Too much work to catch a digital nomad and proving the case.. easier to hold them out by not granting visa's

It's not digital nomads - there are now offices throughout Bkk with programmers working for major international companies through subcontractors....... no visas, no nothing

[kwilco]

7 minutes ago, little mary sunshine said:

First of all, how many cars do you buy?  You buy a second hand

small Toyota, do proper maintenance, maintenances is cheap here

and it should last years.

 

Monthly expenses are 60-70% cheaper here than in North America, no

heat in the Winter.  No extre Winter clothes.  My apartment is beautiful,

same 78 sq meter apt for the past 6 years, B 10,000 Owner never

imcreases the rent.  As for Medical ame Dental I believe I have spent

about $350 in six years, maybe $400.  I exercise daily and try to eat

healthy,  I have an emergence fund for medical, I am self insured and

add $100 to it each month instead of insurance premiums ( fund now

exceeds B 400,000). So if I become ill I will go to a fine government

hospital.

 

I have not compromised my standard of living, eat out 90% of the time,

run the air when it's humid, enjoy the pool travel and get back to North

America twice each year.  For me, working 45+ years has paid off, I

enjoyed my work and currently are having a Wonderful Retirement and

Are not concerned with the cost of anything in Thailand.

 

Can't say what would be better for anyone else, I prepared for my non

working years and so far So good.

 

"

 I have an emergence fund for medical, I am self insured and

add $100 to it each month instead of insurance premiums ( fund now

exceeds B 400,000). So if I become ill I will go to a fine government

hospital."

 

Oh my god! are you stuffed!!!

[kwilco]

3 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Seeing as there is no democracy in Thailand, the right to vote is not very relevant!

I can't really see how this is new news. It's always been illegal to work without a work permit.

If tey start detecting transgressors...that would be news.

[wakeupplease]

The message is loud and clear Farangs and Migrant workers are not wanted as you are too highly educated go somewhere else. If you are retired you can stay until you are 65 (as long as you have big money in our bank) then you are a risk health wise so sod off but we will keep you money in our bank.

 

Nice People to do business with.

[Golden Triangle]

4 minutes ago, little mary sunshine said:

 

 

Not every Brit just the over abundance of them I happen to encounter!

And they are living in the same condo block as you ? surely with all your wealth you would move to somewhere more suitable, at 10 k a month don't sound to great to me, is it a shoe box ? at least I reside in a 3 bed 2 bath villa with private pool, and I'm one of those down at heel UK expats. Get a real life and stop building your part up, it's most unbecoming.

[Moti24]

1 hour ago, little mary sunshine said:

Speaking the truth...Proud to be North American!!

You're missing the point!  The OP is about foreigners working without work permits, but you were straight in with the Brit bashing.

 

If I was meeting you for the first time, I would treat you with the respect that I would give to anybody else on a first meeting, regardless of creed or colour.  You however, knowing that a person was British, would already have made-up your mind that you weren't going to like them.

 

"Speaking the truth" - No doubt!  But of a handful of Brits, not the whole population of the UK.  You shouldn't judge a book by its cover.  I have nothing to say about the population of any country, only about individuals; you should try the same.

[LannaGuy]

6 hours ago, Thai Ron said:

So why don't you need a work permit to buy a condo?

So why don't you need a work permit to buy equities?

You don't really know what you're talking about but you're trying to pass your musings off as fact.

So why do you think we DO have to have a WP for buying a home?

So why do you think we  DON'T have to have a WP for stock market trading?

You really want to protect YOUR work here and are making up stuff to justify your illegality  

 

Somkiat Baiadul, an officer at the work permit division of the Phuket Department of Employment

Answered on Thursday, November 25, 2010 | 03:56 PM

Doing business online is considered a type of work, so foreigners are required to have a work permit to do so.

 

Pol Col Panuwat Ruamrak, Superintendent of Phuket Immigration

If we find out that a foreigner is doing business online without a work permit, we will arrest them and take legal action through the court.

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, Thai Ron said:

Yeah that's why so many Brits are fighting tooth and nail to stay in Thailand despite the plunging pound, isn't it?

They just love the higher cost of living here, don't they?

1) theres many more reasons why people try to stay than financial. 

 

2) I suspect they are not living a decent standard of living (multi his and hers german cars, decent pool home, etc etc) which I meant. 

 

I have homes in UK and Thailand offices in Ireland and Holland and just rented a 6 bed pool villa in portugal with gardners and pool services for the winter (cheaper than I would get one short term in Thailand too) to divide time between there and Thailand. I experience the prices in these places every month and am back and forth constantly. For high end things, all my shopping is in the west, evey trip back here my suitcases arew stuff with western bought bargains, electronics, clothes, etc etc.. here is cheap pool cleaners and plates of low quality street food, but the fact is anything decent not only costs more, costs massively more. 

[AloisAmrein]

14 hours ago, pepi2005 said:

wrong assumption. If you're working in Thailand, you have to obey Thai laws.

Yes, your assumption is wrong. Thai authorithies have no right to prohibit me working for my home company, when  I am on a holiday in Thailand. Thai laws are not valid outside Thailand.

[LivinLOS]

50 minutes ago, Bastos60 said:

They still assume you are on holiday for the period of time that your visa allows you to stay and you are allowed to work online while you are on holiday in Thailand, as long as you are on holiday.  The online work has to limited to the work you perform at home/company in your country of residence. It can not involve any type of business in Thailand though.
If you have an online business that happens to have Thai customers buy products, that is fine, but if you run an online business where you provide a service that involves Thai business then you need a work permit.

 

Specifically against what the employment office and labour department have stated on the record. 

 

You can provide your sources for this guesswork ?? 

[LannaGuy]

3 hours ago, little mary sunshine said:

Canadian's have investments that off set their frozen pensions..  

I must have the only poor Brits in Thailand surrounding the pool

and constantly complaining about the price of a proper British

breakfast and the price of dinner at a restaurant!.  Sad way to live!!

 

You're in the wrong condo mate!  I'm British and if you live with pigs you might get dirty. Time to upgrade your accommodation?  

[LivinLOS]

3 minutes ago, AloisAmrein said:

Yes, your assumption is wrong. Thai authorithies have no right to prohibit me working for my home company, when  I am on a holiday in Thailand. Thai laws are not valid outside Thailand.

Of course they do.. Your not outside of Thailand when your doing the work. 

 

Your in Thailand.. And you have no right to dictate Thai law while here. 

 

[Bastos60]

1 minute ago, LivinLOS said:

Specifically against what the employment office and labour department have stated on the record. 

 

You can provide your sources for this guesswork ?? 

You can not call it guesswork if you have no clue on the local labour laws. 

[LivinLOS]

2 minutes ago, Bastos60 said:

You can not call it guesswork if you have no clue on the local labour laws. 

I have stated the laws, and the labour officials interpretation of them. 

 

Until you can present a counter fact, from the labour dept, your the one making it up. 

[Bastos60]

2 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Of course they do.. Your not outside of Thailand when your doing the work. 

 

Your in Thailand.. And you have no right to dictate Thai law while here. 

 

He has absolutely no clue.

 

[Thai Ron]

Just now, LannaGuy said:

READ my post and the Police quotes just because you CAN do it doesn't make it legal. WHEN did i say you need a Work permit to buy a condo???

Investing in the SET or any other stock exchange in the world does NOT require a work permit.

Trading forex, futures, commodities etc does require one but in the years since it's been possible to do so via the internet, no one has ever been prosecuted for doing so.

 

Whether that's because it's nigh on impossible to catch someone or because the authorities simply don't give a damn is neither here nor there.

[Bastos60]

11 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

I have stated the laws, and the labour officials interpretation of them. 

 

Until you can present a counter fact, from the labour dept, your the one making it up. 

Link your source and don't bring me any articles from a gazette that are 3 and 7 years old.

[Jai Dee]

One flame post as well as subsequent replies have been removed from this thread.

[madmitch]

Rumour has it that the police are already taking advantage of the new fines in my locality, raiding several establishments last night, mainly looking for illegal Burmese, and the old 10,000 baht "fine" has multiplied already. This info is from a Thai and not a faring source.

 

As I said, this isn't corroborated but could ring true as the Burmese raids have been quiet for a while, perhaps the police have been waiting for this day with eager anticipation!

 

 

[AloisAmrein]

59 minutes ago, LannaGuy said:

Somkiat Baiadul, an officer at the work permit division of the Phuket Department of Employment

Answered on Thursday, November 25, 2010 | 03:56 PM

Doing business online is considered a type of work, so foreigners are required to have a work permit to do so.

 

Pol Col Panuwat Ruamrak, Superintendent of Phuket Immigration

If we find out that a foreigner is doing business online without a work permit, we will arrest them and take legal action through the court.

Edited 57 minutes ago by LannaGuy

Valid for residents only, not for tourists.

[ukrules]

4 minutes ago, AloisAmrein said:

Valid for residents only, not for tourists.

What makes someone a resident as opposed to a tourist ?

 

 

[brewsterbudgen]

The message is loud and clear Farangs and Migrant workers are not wanted as you are too highly educated go somewhere else. If you are retired you can stay until you are 65 (as long as you have big money in our bank) then you are a risk health wise so sod off but we will keep you money in our bank.
 
Nice People to do business with.

Requiring a work permit to work in a foreign country isn't unusual or unique to Thailand. Why would they welcome undocumented workers?

[wakeupplease]

12 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Requiring a work permit to work in a foreign country isn't unusual or unique to Thailand. Why would they welcome undocumented workers?

By the way they treat Tourists they are not welcome either, I thought most expats where retired so did not work only those who did a runner from their own country seem to be the ones who work and hey ho fine them and maybe send them back to face the charges, but if they pay a bribe that's ok here

 

Nice people to do business with

[Oceanbat]

What makes someone a resident as opposed to a tourist ?
 
 

Staying 180 days or more as per definition of tax resident.

OB


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[Kim1950]

Is writing a journal or stories and sharing with others as as enjoyable activity a business. Maybe a blog or something on Reddit. Seems there's also quite a cast of self-absorbed types doing YouTube Thailand Travel Log Selfies.