Is it considered work to have computers mining bitcoins ?

[NoBrainer]

14 hours ago, SiamBeast said:

It is not illegal - "work" is where you make money in a job that a Thai could have taken instead, and you won't make any money mining BTC, so it isn't work - it's mostly "donating your money to the metropolitan electricity authority" with zero ROI.

 

Unless you're gonna hire Somchai to bypass your meter, but that's illegal and I can't recommend this here.

 

Yes it may not pay to mine at todays ROI with the cost of electricity, but if you ran a few machines 24/7 for the next few years, and maybe contributed an extra thousand or so baht per month to your electricity bills, sometime in the future (if & when) Bitcoins hit$100,00 or $500,00 each, you could find your self an instant millionaire.

 

Much higher return than buying lottery tickets, in my opinion.

 

 

[williamgeorgeallen]

33 minutes ago, perthperson said:

 

Sadly there are far too  many people like you who are prepared to indulge in rumour, gossip and gross exaggeration. 

 

Did I tell you that one of my neighbours (until recently) was a senior officer with the Dept.Of Work/Employment ? 

 

I repeat I will  continue cutting my grass and doing all the other tasks associated with maintaining a property and I will not be "caught" or fined. 

 

IF your doom laden prediction of my being "caught" ever happens(very unlikely) I will insist on being charged and taken to court. 

i did not predict any doom and gloom. before you go off getting all offended read my post again. i said i doubt anyone cares about you mowing your lawn.

why would you tell me who you neighbor is and why would i care? 

[impulse]

13 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Any type of currency enchange service in Thailand needs to get a license from the Bank of Thailand, according to the Exchange Control Regulations in Thailand whether it’s “real” money or not. 

 

Sonofabitch.  There go our Friday night Monopoly marathons...

 

[perthperson]

Just now, williamgeorgeallen said:

1 minute ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

i doubt anyone cares about you mowing your lawn.

 

Exactly !  And the same applies to the vast majority of people undertaking the normal activities of daily living which includes some "work".

 

If your mate the bar owner acted as "mine host" in his bar he deserves to get done for working and promoting his own interests.  Had he hosted his friends(mates?) in a bar he did not own he would not have been "caught" or fined.

[dave_boo]

There's a calculator here to determine the benefit: 

https://www.cryptocompare.com/mining/calculator/eth?HashingPower=25.623&HashingUnit=MH%2Fs&PowerConsumption=241&CostPerkWh=0.12

 

I punched in 0.12 USD as that's what the BOI website has listed as the peak price (over 400 kw/h).

http://www.boi.go.th/index.php?page=utility_costs

 

Let's say that you get your hands on a RX 580 which does 25.623 MH/s at 241 W.  You'll earn all of $75 (2,545 baht) per month.  Cheapest RX 580 on invadeit is 8,990 baht.  So you'd need 3.5 months just to pay off the card and actually start making money.  Oh...but there are no RX 580 cards available.  Same story with the GTX 1070.  Very hard to find cards right now.

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, SiamBeast said:

There is some money to be made IF:
1) You own (or lease) a datacenter with over 10,000 dedicated machine

2) You live in a place where electricity is dirt cheap (or steal electricity)

Some early adopters made money with mining, but nowadays, the difficulty and hashrate are so high that only the huge players make money - the days where someone could make money with their own computer mining are over.

There is dedicated hardware optimized for mining bitcoins.  It's not like the old days were people used Graphics-Cards to do it - those methods do not come close to break-even any more, even with cheap-electricity.  I would suggest the OP use Paraguay.  Easy visas and permanent-residency with just $5K USD in a bank account there, and much cheaper electricity (when I looked into this a couple years ago).  Could spend more of that cash on the dedicated hardware, and a lot less for general-overhead than Thailand.

 

If the goal is living in Thailand - given costs AND the potential illegality of this - another approach would be wise to support the effort.

[JimmyJ]

 I read of a large mining operation in Thailand and the reason that was given for it being located there was "cheap electricity".

 

It burned down - perhaps 1 - 2 years ago.

[JimmyJ]

I posted this previously in its own thread -

 

"BANGKOK — Thousands flocked to a computer expo over the weekend to snatch up components to mine online money.

The craze, which led to a nationwide shortage of key computer hardware followed a spike of interest in cryptocurrency – digital money unregulated by any central bank or federal reserve. The most famous among them is Bitcoin, which currently trades at about 92,000 baht per unit, nearly three times its value just three months ago."

 

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/culture/net/2017/06/26/bangkok-computer-expo-swept-digital-gold-rush/

[Srikcir]

1 hour ago, impulse said:

 

Sonofabitch.  There go our Friday night Monopoly marathons...

 

Bitcoins are not considered "currency" in Thailand.

http://www.coindesk.com/bank-thailand-says-bitcoin-illegal-warns-use/

One impact of that is on taxes. While any profit made from sale of bitcoins made from a Thailand location (ie., through a Thai server),Thailand treats such profit as ordinary income for tax purposes. In other words, as if sale of bitcoins was currency.

[impulse]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

There is dedicated hardware optimized for mining bitcoins.  It's not like the old days were people used Graphics-Cards to do it - those methods do not come close to break-even any more, even with cheap-electricity.

 

Which is a hoot, because mining was (apparently) profitable when Bitcoins were worth a few bucks.  But not profitable now that they're worth thousands...

[SmartJoe]

Is it ok if I live in Thailand from selling my bitcoins on the Thai exchange or Kraken and wire the money on my thai bank ? Do they charge taxes assuming I live in thailand  all year long on retired visa ?

[the guest]

18 hours ago, thaifoodruns said:

I trade for a living off my computer everything is based overseas and I'm not employed or have a company here so no it shouldn't be considered working in thailand

If your on Thai soil, it's illegal.

[tryasimight]

20 hours ago, JohnnyBKK said:

Is it considered work if I have a computer mining bitcoins ? And if I have more than one ?

 

No, not at all, from previous posts it is considered quite stupid.

[thaifoodruns]

If your on Thai soil, it's illegal.

  

If I'm a journalist for a foreign company and I'm holiday at phuket working on my laptop on the beach is that considered illegal?

 

By your definition, nobody on holiday can answer any work related calls or emails from back home else would be illegal, you're talking nonsense

 

 

[recycler]

It the officer on duty considers is work you are in trouble

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, SmartJoe said:

Is it ok if I live in Thailand from selling my bitcoins on the Thai exchange or Kraken and wire the money on my thai bank ? Do they charge taxes assuming I live in thailand  all year long on retired visa ?

Any "income" remitted to Thailand in the year it is earned is taxable if you reside here more than 180-days/yr.  Any income made *in* Thailand would certainly be taxable. 

 

If you leave your money overseas for a year first, then you can remit it here with no taxes due.  Therefore, if you have enough in your foreign account to cover a year's expenses, you can avoid paying tax here.  I'd redeem my bitcoins elsewhere (not on a Thai exchange), and bring in the money a year+ later.

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, impulse said:

Which is a hoot, because mining was (apparently) profitable when Bitcoins were worth a few bucks.  But not profitable now that they're worth thousands...

Yes, because there is a finite-limit on the number of Bitcoins which will ever exist, and the mathematical-formula for generating them gets more complex over time.  IOW - it used to take much less "work" (tries at a math problem) to "find" a bitcoin.

[impulse]

9 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Yes, because there is a finite-limit on the number of Bitcoins which will ever exist, and the mathematical-formula for generating them gets more complex over time.  IOW - it used to take much less "work" (tries at a math problem) to "find" a bitcoin.

 

Yeah, but that's like saying that Ford will only build a fixed number of 2018 models, then they jack up the price around July when they're almost finished with the run.

 

It would be one thing if Ford were the only option, and 2018 is the only year model, but...

 

I'm still waiting for Jack Ma to come out with AliCoin, then hot Chinese money can quit the Bitcoin (and that's about all that's propping it up)...

 

Waiting for it... Waiting for it...

 

 

[Tilacme]

I would look at the business model before worrying about a WP.  You will need to import proper mining machines, have a high speed connection and a fully air conditioned room.

[vaultdweller0013]

4 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Yeah, but that's like saying that Ford will only build a fixed number of 2018 models, then they jack up the price around July when they're almost finished with the run.

 

It would be one thing if Ford were the only option, and 2018 is the only year model, but...

 

I'm still waiting for Jack Ma to come out with AliCoin, then hot Chinese money can quit the Bitcoin (and that's about all that's propping it up)...

 

Waiting for it... Waiting for it...

 

 

Its not the fixed cap of bitcoins that is (directly*) important in this case. It is the increasing complexity of mining blocks and reduced rewards for mining blocks that have change the economics of mining.

 

At the start, you could mine with cheap/low power CPUs. As the complexity increased, you needed more expensive and power hungry GPUs. Then the big miners had to move to FPGAs and then finally ASICS to really make it viable. Apparently, GPUs are making a comeback with the latest generation tech.

 

At the same time, the bitcoin rewards have and continue to be cut in half at a regular basis  as more are mined. So, many years ago, you maybe could have gotten 100 BTC for mining a block with a 100w CPU that cost $200, today you would only get 12 BTC with a $400 300w GPU (numbers are not actuals and are for illustrative purposes only).

 

So, to take you car example, it would be like if Ford had to build a second factory just to produce half as many cars as they were before.

 

(*) I said directly because the way they have limited the number of bitcoins is by halving the reward at set intervals. This means the number of bitcoins will follow the geometric series X*( 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 + ...) which is bounded to be finite.

Edited July 2, 2017 by vaultdweller0013
Typos .. that you smartphone keyboards

[hawker9000]

If some Thai for whatever reason decides to drop a dime on you and the police show up at your door saying it's illegal, it's about as "illegal" as it needs to be.  (Then again, so would cooking your own breakfast...)    So stay on good terms with your neighbors, etc., and you've got nothing to worry about.

[chickenrunCM]

8 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Any "income" remitted to Thailand in the year it is earned is taxable if you reside here more than 180-days/yr.  Any income made *in* Thailand would certainly be taxable. 

 

If you leave your money overseas for a year first, then you can remit it here with no taxes due.  Therefore, if you have enough in your foreign account to cover a year's expenses, you can avoid paying tax here.  I'd redeem my bitcoins elsewhere (not on a Thai exchange), and bring in the money a year+ later.

how somebody in Thailand knows, when you made what money? you don´t have to do any tax statement, so you can bring money you earnz zhe same day to thailand

[chickenrunCM]

1 hour ago, hawker9000 said:

If some Thai for whatever reason decides to drop a dime on you and the police show up at your door saying it's illegal, it's about as "illegal" as it needs to be.  (Then again, so would cooking your own breakfast...)    So stay on good terms with your neighbors, etc., and you've got nothing to worry about.

the police not decides what is illegal, a court decides. all the rumors and wrong posts here, get a life

[chickenrunCM]

10 hours ago, the guest said:

If your on Thai soil, it's illegal.

it is not illegal!

[Salerno]

13 hours ago, IAMHERE said:

Up til recently I'd never heard of bridge players being rounded up and taken off to jail until they came up with 5000 bail money so they could go home and take their old age medicines. Those guys/gals are still in legal limbo so no telling what can become of someone in Thailand; even for cutting your own grass.

But those desperate criminals committed the crime of having too many (untaxed) playing cards in the same room .... lucky they haven't been hung drawn and quartered for such a heinous crime 

[hawker9000]

4 hours ago, chickenrunCM said:

the police not decides what is illegal, a court decides. all the rumors and wrong posts here, get a life

LOL.  Right.  'Hope your second 10 mins in Thailand goes as well as your first...   Get a clue.

 

 

[JAG]

In response to the OP question.

The legality of this activity will likely be decided by the generosity of your response to the authorities representative...

[Beats56]

If you want to mine bitcoins you better have a super computer or computers running.24 7. All the big players are way head of the curve. As for illegal I don't know but who would know if you did it or not.

 

 

 

[CH1961]

On 1.7.2017 at 4:10 PM, thaifoodruns said:

I trade for a living off my computer everything is based overseas and I'm not employed or have a company here so no it shouldn't be considered working in thailand

.. trading off your computer located in thailand for living in thailand is not working in thailand ???

Sorry, what else ???

[thaifoodruns]

What else?? If you answer a work call from overseas what do u call that?