Canadian government brushes off criticism on ex-Guantanamo inmate deal

[webfact]

Canadian government brushes off criticism on ex-Guantanamo inmate deal

By David Ljunggren and Leah Schnurr

 

FILE PHOTO: Omar Khadr leaves a news conference after being released on bail in Edmonton, Alberta, May 7, 2015. REUTERS/Todd Korol/File Photo

 

OTTAWA (Reuters) - Critics attacked Prime Minister Justin Trudeau on Wednesday for his planned move to pay millions to a Canadian citizen held at Guantanamo Bay for a decade but insiders and experts said Ottawa had little choice but to settle for an expensive compromise.

 

Reuters reported on Tuesday that Trudeau's Liberal government would pay Omar Khadr around C$10 million (5.96 million pounds) and offer a formal apology to compensate him for abuses he suffered as an inmate at the U.S. military prison in Cuba.

 

Defenders of the deal noted the Supreme Court had ruled three times in favour of Khadr. In 2010, it said Canada breached his rights by sending intelligence agents to interrogate him and sharing the results with the United States.

 

"The Supreme Court rulings were very clear. This is about respecting fundamental human rights in Canada," said one person with knowledge of the case, who asked to remain anonymous given the sensitivity of the matter.

 

The Globe and Mail and Toronto Star, two of Canada's most influential newspapers, on Wednesday ran editorials welcoming the settlement.

 

Khadr, 30, was captured in Afghanistan in 2002 at age 15 after a firefight with U.S. soldiers. He pleaded guilty to killing a U.S. Army medic and became Guantanamo's youngest prisoner.

 

The opposition Conservative Party, which was in power for most of the decade that Khadr spent in Guantanamo, said it was wrong to pay someone who had admitted a serious crime.

 

"It's a tragic case on all levels but we can't excuse the behaviour of Mr Khadr and to certainly almost reward it in this way is, I think, a travesty," legislator Erin O'Toole told the Canadian Broadcasting Corp.

 

The political impact for Trudeau looks to be limited. The next election is not until October 2019 and the Liberals still enjoy a healthy lead in voter surveys.

 

"First of all, a lot of this is inside baseball. Secondly, it's pretty clear Omar Khadr has been a victim," Nanos Research pollster Nik Nanos said.

 

Khadr is suing Ottawa for C$20 million and the government would have weighed the political damage of continuing to fight him in court, said Professor Audrey Macklin, chair of human rights law at the University of Toronto.

 

"A protracted litigation case would be very, very expensive ... and would lead almost inevitably to the disclosure of evidence that would bring the government of Canada into disrepute," Macklin said.

 

(Reporting by David Ljunggren and Leah Schnurr; Editing by Denny Thomas and Grant McCool)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-07-07

[canuckamuck]

Well when you have a college dropout dope head for a PM, you got to expect things like rewarding terrorists with cash windfalls, is just part of his quirky way.

[retarius]

Good on him. This will change his life for the better after years of torture and suffering in Guantanamo, the moral under-stain of America.

[Kerryd]

There are a lot of pissed off people over this and the government is in damage control mode.
They keep trying to pain Omar Kadhr as some kind of innocent "child soldier" despite his actions and him being over the age limit to be defined as such.

 

One idiot MP even sent out a "tweet" trying to justify Omar's actions by claiming that the US had "invaded his country", that he'd been "pressed into service at 15" and had been given "improper medical and legal treatment".
(I sent that MP a rather nasty email pointing out his lies and he has since deleted his tweet. I let him know we'd remember him come election time.)

 

Omar Kadhr's parents (father - Egyptian, mother - Palestinian) went to Canada (the land of milk and honey and most importantly - easy to get citizenship and passports). Omar's father was in Pakistan and Afghanistan from the early 80s, where the father made contacts with such notables as  Ayman al-Zawahiri (the 2nd highest person in Al Qeada), Abu Laith al-Libi (a known senior leader in Al Qaeda) and Osama bin Laden himself, along with assorted warlords and other terrorists.
Omar's father (Ahmed Kadhr) had set up a charity to help the widows and children from the conflict in Afghanistan (the Soviet invasion conflict, not the American invasion).
 

The family "moved" back to Canada in 1986, in time for Omar to be born (got to love that superior Canadian healthcare - oh and the "golden passport" of course) ! It seems they made sure to be in Canada for the births of all their children, before going back to Pakistan.

They moved back to Pakistan not long after. In 1992 Ahmed was wounded (in Afghanistan) and (no surprise) they moved back to Canada (got to love that Canadian healthcare  and passport - so convenient) ! Omar was around 6 at the time. While Ahmed's "charity" reported that he was wounded from stepping on a land mine (inside a refugee camp), one of his sons said it was from a bomb (or mortar round) from a warlord opposed to whoever Ahmed was being cozy with at the time.

(In 1994 Ahmed sent his 2 oldest sons to a "military training camp" that allegedly was run by Al Qaeda.)

 

In 1995 they moved back to Pakistan. Later that year, Ahmed arranged a marriage between his daughter (Zaynab) and an Egyptian man. That man (Khalid Abdullah) lived with the family for 2 months as a "trial" arrangement. While there, the Egyptian Embassy in Pakistan was bombed. Khalid Abdullah disappeared immediately. The police came to Kadhr's home and Zaynab grabbed an AK-47 and started screaming at the police. Omar's father wasn't home but was arrested later on. He was suspected of having helped finance the bombing through his "charity".
Liberal Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien personally intervened to get him released and returned to Canada. After arriving in Canada, he almost immediately turned around and moved his family to Afghanistan.

The "fiance" turned up in Iran in 1997 and was able to sneak back into Pakistan, where he married Zaynab . The marriage lasted a whole 6 months (no Canadian citizenship or passport for you buddy) ! Khalid was eventually arrested and deported to Egypt for his role in the embassy bombing. 
In 1998 the Kadhr family was apparently living with Osama bin Laden's family in their house in Nazim Jihad (near Jalalabad, Afghanistan). Osama moved to a different house later on and apparently didn't invite the Kadhr family to move with them.

In February 2002, the 15 year, 4 month old Omar asked to be allowed to move into a "guest house" with a group of "Arab" men that included the aforementioned Abu Laith al-Libi. Over the next 5 months Omar received training in bomb making and weapons.

(Note that according to the Geneva Convention, and most other international treaties, child soldiers are defined as those under 15 years of age.)

In July of that year Omar was involved in the firefight with US forces in which Sgt Speer was killed by a grenade thrown by Omar. Omar has stated that, despite being given the opportunity to surrender, he threw 2 grenades and continued to fire his AK-47 until he was wounded.
Allegedly, when the US troops checked him and found he was still alive, he begged to be killed. Instead, the troops gave him medical aid and air-lifted him to the hospital in Bagram.

So lets see.

Father (Ahmed Kadhr) was a well known associate of several well known (and highly ranked) terrorists. Was suspected of using his charity organization to finance an embassy bombing. Killed in a shoot out with Pakistani security forces in 2003. He had been holed up with his youngest son in a "safe house" with a number of suspected terrorists in the South Waziristan region of Pakistan. (Pakistan claimed to have killed 12 Al Qaeda and Taliban terrorists in the raid.)

 

2 eldest sons ( Abdullah and Abdurahman) are sent to an "alleged" terrorist training camp in 1994.

Abdullah later arrested for supplying weapons to Al Qaeda. Was arrested in Pakistan, who refused to extradite him to the US. Eventually sent to Canada, who have also refused to extradite him to the US.

Abdurahman was arrested in Afghanistan (numerous times apparently) but kept getting released. Claims to have been a CIA operative. Eventually sent to Guantanamo (supposedly) in 2002, but claims the CIA sent him to Bosnia to spy on Muslims there. Claims he went to several Canadian embassies but was turned away by all of them. Eventually admitted to the embassy in Bosnia and flown to Canada. Claims to have "grown up in an Al Qaeda family". He has made numerous claims over the years that have proven to be outright lies.
Abdulkareem, the youngest son (age 14 at the time), was with his father at the "safe house" in the South Waziristan region of Pakistan when it was attacked by Pakistani security forces. He was wounded and ended up paralyzed. Sent to Canada in 2004. After a 3 month waiting period, was eligible for provincial healthcare (standard period for everyone not previously covered). 

Omar Kadhr. Voluntarily joins an Al Qaeda terrorist cell and received training in bomb making and weapons. Wounded in firefight with US forces. Treated and (eventually) sent to Guantanamo. Was NOT subject to "harsh" interrogation techniques (i.e. water boarding) but was "threatened with spending the rest of his life in jail" and threatened that "he may be raped in the shower by large black men" and at times was not allowed to go to the bathroom when he wanted to.No actual physical abuse. ("Following the hearing, the military judge ruled that there was no credible evidence that Khadr had been tortured as alleged, and that his confession was gained after it was revealed that Americans had discovered a videotape of Khadr and others making IED's.")
8 years after being captured, he finally agrees to a plea deal (in 2010). In 2012 he is transferred to Canada and in Feb 2015 is released with a number of conditions, including have to wear an electronic (ankle) monitor, having monitoring software on his computer and being required to converse in English. By Sept his lawyers had managed to get most of his restrictions removed and he is pretty much free to do what he wants now.

Moreso now that he has just been given $10 million (which his lawyers will take a large hunk of for sure). Apparently the government moved to pay him the money as fast as they could so that the widow of Sgt Speers couldn't get an injunction against him in order to claim that pay out (she was awarded a large payout in the US courts but that can't be enforced in Canada).

 

Finally, let us not forget Zaynab. Her second marriage was in Kabul in 1999 and it was attended by none other than Both al-Zawahiri and Osama bin Laden ! The #1 and #2 leaders of Al Qaeda ! In 2004 Zaynab was quoted as saying that the (previous) 5 years she'd spent living with the Taliban were the best 5 years of her life. After Osama was killed, she adopted his "mugshot" as her Facebook profile page.
Her Canadian passport had been cancelled in Pakistan after her father was deemed to be a "terrorist" but somehow, in 2005, she was able to fly back to Canada (hmmmmm - I wonder how). The RCMP were waiting for her and confiscated her laptop which apparently had some juicy intel on it, including the locations of some veteran Al Qaeda terrorists. Of course she claimed to know nothing about that and said she'd bought the laptop 2nd hand months earlier. Strange how it seems no one believed her !

Zaynab and her mother were apparently placed on a "passport control list" due to the fact numerous times they had both reported having "lost" their passports since 1999. Really not a secret what was going on there.
Oddly enough, apparently in 2012 she was somehow able to fly to Turkey and was apparently married again (for the 4th time). However, it seems that in Jan or Feb of 2016 she was arrested in Turkey for some reason and it seems she is still being held there. (I'd seen a different story yesterday that said she'd flown there in Feb 2016 but now it seems it was 2012.)

 

So the whole family has been intricately involved with terrorists since the early 80s and some at least probably are still, at the very least, sympathetic and supportive.

 

Side note - Zaynab's 3rd husband was none other than the Canadian Joshua Boyle ! They were married in 2009 after he seemingly adopted her cause (to have Omar released from Guantanamo). 

Who is Joshua Boyle you ask ?

Well, after the marriage with Zaynab ended, Josh married an American girl (Caitlin Coleman). In 2012 they went on a "back packing" trip through the "stans" (Khazakstan, Uzbekistan, etc), where they kept in constant contact with their relatives.

Then, for some strange reason, they decided to take a detour into Afghanistan, which was still a war zone (still is). His wife is SIX months pregnant at this time. Didn't bother telling the relatives anything until finally in October, Josh sends an email, from Kabul, telling his parents that they are in a "very dangerous part of the country". (Note that Kabul was probably the safest part of the country for a young white couple to be.)
The next day he makes a cash withdrawal from an ATM machine in Kabul and they travel to Wardak province to go "hiking in the mountains" !!!

I spent 2 years in Kabul (2003-2005), which sits at 6,000' feet in elevation, higher than Denver, Colorado or Mexico City. The place is surrounded by steep mountains (the "Hindu Kush" which are kind of the tail part of the Himalayas). They get very nasty winters there. Wardak is to the West and is also mountainous and also well known as a very dangerous place to be. It is considered "high risk" and under the "defacto" control of the Taliban.
Needless to say, the couple "disappear" after travelling there. Why the **** would anyone take their 6 month pregnant wife hiking in the mountains in the winter time in a high risk area that is effectively controlled by terrorists ?
Unless of course you happened to have been married to a member of the Kadhr family at one time and probably had contacts with various terrorists. In the spring of 2013 two short videos were "smuggled" out of Afghanistan. Each short video (under 2 minutes) showed just Josh and Caitlin (no "terrorists" and strangely, no child). They were both dressed in clothing that I would describe as being more Pakistani in origin than Afghani (but hey, I only spent 10 years working there so what do I know ?). They claimed they had been kidnapped, but made no demands of any kind ! No "kidnappers" were seen, no weapons, they weren't bound in anyway and had some kind of bedsheet as a backdrop instead of a "terrorist" flag. No outside noises or music was heard to give any clues as to were they might actually be.

After that was nothing but complete silence again for what, 1 1/2 years before another video came out. Again, no ransom demands, no kidnappers or weapons. Different clothes (still looking more like Pakistan than Afghanistan), a different backdrop and no kid(s).
Sometime later another video comes out. Almost everything is the same except this time they make a demand ! Unless Afghanistan stops executing terrorist murderers, they will be killed ! Coincidentally, the son of the leader of the notorious Haqqani network is scheduled to be executed in the near future.
Nothing happens and the couple aren't killed. What a surprise.
The last messages now claim that the wife was abused in front of her children.

Pretty generous of those "kidnappers" to not make any demands for the release of these two eh ? Apparently from all appearances keeping them well fed and dressed and having the opportunity to make babies. Josh at one point had claimed he was allowed out to get exercise and such.
What it really sounds like is these two willingly went in search of a group of terrorists, knew where to look and how to find them. Since then they have been living with them and no doubt earning their keep (probably though language lessons but maybe they have other skills as well).

Of course, if one day you decide to come home, you don't want to be arrested on arrival and charged with being a member of a terrorist group so what do you do ? Well, you claim you were kidnapped ! That way, despite all the evidence saying otherwise, you can come home and pretend to be "victims" and reap all the sympathy that would come with a long captivity, and I'm sure that "sympathy" would include large book and movie deals as well.

Well, that turned out quite a bit longer and more detailed than I had originally planned. I guess that's the result of spending too long getting too involved with an issue ! I need to start doing other things I think !!

 

[docshock13]

9 minutes ago, Kerryd said:

There are a lot of pissed off people over this and the government is in damage control mode.
They keep trying to pain Omar Kadhr as some kind of innocent "child soldier" despite his actions and him being over the age limit to be defined as such.

 

One idiot MP even sent out a "tweet" trying to justify Omar's actions by claiming that the US had "invaded his country", that he'd been "pressed into service at 15" and had been given "improper medical and legal treatment".
(I sent that MP a rather nasty email pointing out his lies and he has since deleted his tweet. I let him know we'd remember him come election time.)

 

Omar Kadhr's parents (father - Egyptian, mother - Palestinian) went to Canada (the land of milk and honey and most importantly - easy to get citizenship and passports). Omar's father was in Pakistan and Afghanistan from the early 80s, where the father made contacts with such notables as  Ayman al-Zawahiri (the 2nd highest person in Al Qeada), Abu Laith al-Libi (a known senior leader in Al Qaeda) and Osama bin Laden himself, along with assorted warlords and other terrorists.
Omar's father (Ahmed Kadhr) had set up a charity to help the widows and children from the conflict in Afghanistan (the Soviet invasion conflict, not the American invasion).
 

The family "moved" back to Canada in 1986, in time for Omar to be born (got to love that superior Canadian healthcare - oh and the "golden passport" of course) ! It seems they made sure to be in Canada for the births of all their children, before going back to Pakistan.

They moved back to Pakistan not long after. In 1992 Ahmed was wounded (in Afghanistan) and (no surprise) they moved back to Canada (got to love that Canadian healthcare  and passport - so convenient) ! Omar was around 6 at the time. While Ahmed's "charity" reported that he was wounded from stepping on a land mine (inside a refugee camp), one of his sons said it was from a bomb (or mortar round) from a warlord opposed to whoever Ahmed was being cozy with at the time.

(In 1994 Ahmed sent his 2 oldest sons to a "military training camp" that allegedly was run by Al Qaeda.)

 

In 1995 they moved back to Pakistan. Later that year, Ahmed arranged a marriage between his daughter (Zaynab) and an Egyptian man. That man (Khalid Abdullah) lived with the family for 2 months as a "trial" arrangement. While there, the Egyptian Embassy in Pakistan was bombed. Khalid Abdullah disappeared immediately. The police came to Kadhr's home and Zaynab grabbed an AK-47 and started screaming at the police. Omar's father wasn't home but was arrested later on. He was suspected of having helped finance the bombing through his "charity".
Liberal Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien personally intervened to get him released and returned to Canada. After arriving in Canada, he almost immediately turned around and moved his family to Afghanistan.

The "fiance" turned up in Iran in 1997 and was able to sneak back into Pakistan, where he married Zaynab . The marriage lasted a whole 6 months (no Canadian citizenship or passport for you buddy) ! Khalid was eventually arrested and deported to Egypt for his role in the embassy bombing. 
In 1998 the Kadhr family was apparently living with Osama bin Laden's family in their house in Nazim Jihad (near Jalalabad, Afghanistan). Osama moved to a different house later on and apparently didn't invite the Kadhr family to move with them.

In February 2002, the 15 year, 4 month old Omar asked to be allowed to move into a "guest house" with a group of "Arab" men that included the aforementioned Abu Laith al-Libi. Over the next 5 months Omar received training in bomb making and weapons.

(Note that according to the Geneva Convention, and most other international treaties, child soldiers are defined as those under 15 years of age.)

In July of that year Omar was involved in the firefight with US forces in which Sgt Speer was killed by a grenade thrown by Omar. Omar has stated that, despite being given the opportunity to surrender, he threw 2 grenades and continued to fire his AK-47 until he was wounded.
Allegedly, when the US troops checked him and found he was still alive, he begged to be killed. Instead, the troops gave him medical aid and air-lifted him to the hospital in Bagram.

So lets see.

Father (Ahmed Kadhr) was a well known associate of several well known (and highly ranked) terrorists. Was suspected of using his charity organization to finance an embassy bombing. Killed in a shoot out with Pakistani security forces in 2003. He had been holed up with his youngest son in a "safe house" with a number of suspected terrorists in the South Waziristan region of Pakistan. (Pakistan claimed to have killed 12 Al Qaeda and Taliban terrorists in the raid.)

 

2 eldest sons ( Abdullah and Abdurahman) are sent to an "alleged" terrorist training camp in 1994.

Abdullah later arrested for supplying weapons to Al Qaeda. Was arrested in Pakistan, who refused to extradite him to the US. Eventually sent to Canada, who have also refused to extradite him to the US.

Abdurahman was arrested in Afghanistan (numerous times apparently) but kept getting released. Claims to have been a CIA operative. Eventually sent to Guantanamo (supposedly) in 2002, but claims the CIA sent him to Bosnia to spy on Muslims there. Claims he went to several Canadian embassies but was turned away by all of them. Eventually admitted to the embassy in Bosnia and flown to Canada. Claims to have "grown up in an Al Qaeda family". He has made numerous claims over the years that have proven to be outright lies.
Abdulkareem, the youngest son (age 14 at the time), was with his father at the "safe house" in the South Waziristan region of Pakistan when it was attacked by Pakistani security forces. He was wounded and ended up paralyzed. Sent to Canada in 2004. After a 3 month waiting period, was eligible for provincial healthcare (standard period for everyone not previously covered). 

Omar Kadhr. Voluntarily joins an Al Qaeda terrorist cell and received training in bomb making and weapons. Wounded in firefight with US forces. Treated and (eventually) sent to Guantanamo. Was NOT subject to "harsh" interrogation techniques (i.e. water boarding) but was "threatened with spending the rest of his life in jail" and threatened that "he may be raped in the shower by large black men" and at times was not allowed to go to the bathroom when he wanted to.No actual physical abuse. ("Following the hearing, the military judge ruled that there was no credible evidence that Khadr had been tortured as alleged, and that his confession was gained after it was revealed that Americans had discovered a videotape of Khadr and others making IED's.")
8 years after being captured, he finally agrees to a plea deal (in 2010). In 2012 he is transferred to Canada and in Feb 2015 is released with a number of conditions, including have to wear an electronic (ankle) monitor, having monitoring software on his computer and being required to converse in English. By Sept his lawyers had managed to get most of his restrictions removed and he is pretty much free to do what he wants now.

Moreso now that he has just been given $10 million (which his lawyers will take a large hunk of for sure). Apparently the government moved to pay him the money as fast as they could so that the widow of Sgt Speers couldn't get an injunction against him in order to claim that pay out (she was awarded a large payout in the US courts but that can't be enforced in Canada).

 

Finally, let us not forget Zaynab. Her second marriage was in Kabul in 1999 and it was attended by none other than Both al-Zawahiri and Osama bin Laden ! The #1 and #2 leaders of Al Qaeda ! In 2004 Zaynab was quoted as saying that the (previous) 5 years she'd spent living with the Taliban were the best 5 years of her life. After Osama was killed, she adopted his "mugshot" as her Facebook profile page.
Her Canadian passport had been cancelled in Pakistan after her father was deemed to be a "terrorist" but somehow, in 2005, she was able to fly back to Canada (hmmmmm - I wonder how). The RCMP were waiting for her and confiscated her laptop which apparently had some juicy intel on it, including the locations of some veteran Al Qaeda terrorists. Of course she claimed to know nothing about that and said she'd bought the laptop 2nd hand months earlier. Strange how it seems no one believed her !

Zaynab and her mother were apparently placed on a "passport control list" due to the fact numerous times they had both reported having "lost" their passports since 1999. Really not a secret what was going on there.
Oddly enough, apparently in 2012 she was somehow able to fly to Turkey and was apparently married again (for the 4th time). However, it seems that in Jan or Feb of 2016 she was arrested in Turkey for some reason and it seems she is still being held there. (I'd seen a different story yesterday that said she'd flown there in Feb 2016 but now it seems it was 2012.)

 

So the whole family has been intricately involved with terrorists since the early 80s and some at least probably are still, at the very least, sympathetic and supportive.

 

Side note - Zaynab's 3rd husband was none other than the Canadian Joshua Boyle ! They were married in 2009 after he seemingly adopted her cause (to have Omar released from Guantanamo). 

Who is Joshua Boyle you ask ?

Well, after the marriage with Zaynab ended, Josh married an American girl (Caitlin Coleman). In 2012 they went on a "back packing" trip through the "stans" (Khazakstan, Uzbekistan, etc), where they kept in constant contact with their relatives.

Then, for some strange reason, they decided to take a detour into Afghanistan, which was still a war zone (still is). His wife is SIX months pregnant at this time. Didn't bother telling the relatives anything until finally in October, Josh sends an email, from Kabul, telling his parents that they are in a "very dangerous part of the country". (Note that Kabul was probably the safest part of the country for a young white couple to be.)
The next day he makes a cash withdrawal from an ATM machine in Kabul and they travel to Wardak province to go "hiking in the mountains" !!!

I spent 2 years in Kabul (2003-2005), which sits at 6,000' feet in elevation, higher than Denver, Colorado or Mexico City. The place is surrounded by steep mountains (the "Hindu Kush" which are kind of the tail part of the Himalayas). They get very nasty winters there. Wardak is to the West and is also mountainous and also well known as a very dangerous place to be. It is considered "high risk" and under the "defacto" control of the Taliban.
Needless to say, the couple "disappear" after travelling there. Why the **** would anyone take their 6 month pregnant wife hiking in the mountains in the winter time in a high risk area that is effectively controlled by terrorists ?
Unless of course you happened to have been married to a member of the Kadhr family at one time and probably had contacts with various terrorists. In the spring of 2013 two short videos were "smuggled" out of Afghanistan. Each short video (under 2 minutes) showed just Josh and Caitlin (no "terrorists" and strangely, no child). They were both dressed in clothing that I would describe as being more Pakistani in origin than Afghani (but hey, I only spent 10 years working there so what do I know ?). They claimed they had been kidnapped, but made no demands of any kind ! No "kidnappers" were seen, no weapons, they weren't bound in anyway and had some kind of bedsheet as a backdrop instead of a "terrorist" flag. No outside noises or music was heard to give any clues as to were they might actually be.

After that was nothing but complete silence again for what, 1 1/2 years before another video came out. Again, no ransom demands, no kidnappers or weapons. Different clothes (still looking more like Pakistan than Afghanistan), a different backdrop and no kid(s).
Sometime later another video comes out. Almost everything is the same except this time they make a demand ! Unless Afghanistan stops executing terrorist murderers, they will be killed ! Coincidentally, the son of the leader of the notorious Haqqani network is scheduled to be executed in the near future.
Nothing happens and the couple aren't killed. What a surprise.
The last messages now claim that the wife was abused in front of her children.

Pretty generous of those "kidnappers" to not make any demands for the release of these two eh ? Apparently from all appearances keeping them well fed and dressed and having the opportunity to make babies. Josh at one point had claimed he was allowed out to get exercise and such.
What it really sounds like is these two willingly went in search of a group of terrorists, knew where to look and how to find them. Since then they have been living with them and no doubt earning their keep (probably though language lessons but maybe they have other skills as well).

Of course, if one day you decide to come home, you don't want to be arrested on arrival and charged with being a member of a terrorist group so what do you do ? Well, you claim you were kidnapped ! That way, despite all the evidence saying otherwise, you can come home and pretend to be "victims" and reap all the sympathy that would come with a long captivity, and I'm sure that "sympathy" would include large book and movie deals as well.

Well, that turned out quite a bit longer and more detailed than I had originally planned. I guess that's the result of spending too long getting too involved with an issue ! I need to start doing other things I think !!

 

There is no "Like x 1000" button, so here you go!

Excellent synopsis of the issue. 

[Jonmarleesco]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

it's pretty clear Omar Khadr has been a victim," Nanos Research pollster Nik Nanos said.

A victim who admitted to killing a US army medic. For which the US's neighbour then thought it right that it should pay him C$10M.

Edited July 7, 2017 by Jonmarleesco

[phantomfiddler]

This has to rank highly among the most ridiculous decisions ever made ! Throw the a*s*h*l* back in jail where he belongs. Hopefully the family of the person he killed will be able to successfully sue and take his ill gotten "loot".

[ilostmypassword]

Except that his confession was obtained by coercion. So who knows what the truth is. I know that the FBI had contempt for these methods.

[jesimps]

3 hours ago, retarius said:

Good on him. This will change his life for the better after years of torture and suffering in Guantanamo, the moral under-stain of America.

He killed a US army medic. A non-combatant. You appear to be on his side. What's wrong with your head???

 

[wcoast]

He killed a US army medic. A non-combatant. You appear to be on his side. What's wrong with your head???
 

He was not a medic, he was training but not officially a medic. You appear to believe the status quo of those ignorant of factual data.

Sent from my SM-A910F using Tapatalk

[wcoast]

There is no "Like x 1000" button, so here you go!
Excellent synopsis of the issue. 

Child soldiers are innocent by international law.
Confessions coerced by torture are not valid.
Khadr had been injured hours earlier, buried in rubble from a bombed building as well as blinded in one eye and with 2 bullets in his back.
The US created a new offence to charge him with retroactively because there was no current applicable law to charge him with.
The whole shit show is just that, a shitshow.

Sent from my SM-A910F using Tapatalk

[ilostmypassword]

17 minutes ago, jesimps said:

He killed a US army medic. A non-combatant. You appear to be on his side. What's wrong with your head???

 

Under coercion he confessed to killing a medic or a medic in training. Using coercion you can get people to confess to anything just to make it stop. That's why the FBI has contempt for those methods.

[newnative]

Disgusting.  Disgusting. Disgusting.

[ilostmypassword]

3 minutes ago, newnative said:

Disgusting.  Disgusting. Disgusting.

Huh? Huh? Huh?

[docshock13]

1 hour ago, phantomfiddler said:

This has to rank highly among the most ridiculous decisions ever made ! Throw the a*s*h*l* back in jail where he belongs. Hopefully the family of the person he killed will be able to successfully sue and take his ill gotten "loot".

This Tweet from Cdn Leader if the Official Opposition: 

"Canadians know this is wrong. If Omar Khadr is truly sorry for what he did, he'll give every cent to Tabitha Speer and her two children."

I also read the widow has filed an injunction to block payment to Khadr. I am pretty sure she cannot claim his "compensation" money though. 

[ilostmypassword]

17 minutes ago, docshock13 said:

This Tweet from Cdn Leader if the Official Opposition: 

"Canadians know this is wrong. If Omar Khadr is truly sorry for what he did, he'll give every cent to Tabitha Speer and her two children."

I also read the widow has filed an injunction to block payment to Khadr. I am pretty sure she cannot claim his "compensation" money though. 

The question is, "What did he do?"

[wcoast]

The question is, "What did he do?"

The new opposition leader Sheerer is a flake, as is his Conservative party. They were run out of office in the last election. They lost everything Supreme Court challenge they fought against.

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[wcoast]

Some facts to consider...
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/omarkhadr/2009/10/28/omar_khadr_innocent_in_death_of_us_soldier.html

As well as...
https://ricochet.media/en/1405/30-ways-the-canadian-government-failed-omar-khadr


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[Stargeezr]

It is too bad that the Canadian PM won't read this letter here in the Forum.  He has already given the

Canadian tax payers money to this terrorist killer.   No a dime from his own pocket however.       That is the biggest complaint  I have of politicians,  is that they never use their own money when they are being generous.

  I did not vote in our present PM and I certainly will not be voting Liberal in the next Federal election as well.     Marshmellow  Man  is my title for Canadas present PM.     Omar does not deserve a penny from Canada.

Geezer

Edited July 7, 2017 by Stargrazer9889
mis spelled

[Stargeezr]

I am disgusted  hear on tonight's news  that Omar  has already been paid.SHAME on Canada's PM and the Liberal government. They have also officially apologizedto him as well.  I certainly will not be voting Liberal ever again. Makes me just want to puke, to know this is how my government is spending my tax dollars.

Geezer 

[ilostmypassword]

7 hours ago, Stargrazer9889 said:

It is too bad that the Canadian PM won't read this letter here in the Forum.  He has already given the

Canadian tax payers money to this terrorist killer.   No a dime from his own pocket however.       That is the biggest complaint  I have of politicians,  is that they never use their own money when they are being generous.

  I did not vote in our present PM and I certainly will not be voting Liberal in the next Federal election as well.     Marshmellow  Man  is my title for Canadas present PM.     Omar does not deserve a penny from Canada.

Geezer

Not a terrorist. He attacked soldiers - not civilians. And the so-called evidence against him was gotten by coercion. Which makes it tainted. The Canadian justice system, is, in fact, to be congratulated for upholding the role of law even in the face of large scale irrational rage.

As for you voting for liberals, give me a break. I've seen too many of your right wing opinions voiced here to believe that you ever would have voted liberal, no matter how much you may protest otherwise.

[Stargeezr]

Well I won't vote NDP either, unlike maybe you will.  I have also read many of your opinionated comments.

Not that impressed.

Geezer

[ilostmypassword]

20 minutes ago, Stargrazer9889 said:

Well I won't vote NDP either, unlike maybe you will.  I have also read many of your opinionated comments.

Not that impressed.

Geezer

But I back my opinions with facts. Facts which you apparently can't rebut.  

[wcoast]

http://www.nationalobserver.com/2017/07/07/opinion/what-if-omar-khadr-isnt-guilty
Written by a lawyer who has a deep personal interest in the Khadr proceedings.

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[ilostmypassword]

9 minutes ago, wcoast said:

http://www.nationalobserver.com/2017/07/07/opinion/what-if-omar-khadr-isnt-guilty
Written by a lawyer who has a deep personal interest in the Khadr proceedings.

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Who needs evidence when you've got the magic word "terrorist"?

[Rancid]

Reminds me of Oz paying illegal immigrants huge amounts of money for incarcerating them and not allowing them into the country. The West sure are suckers for shifty lawyers...

[wcoast]

Who needs evidence when you've got the magic word "terrorist"?

Not to mention the fact that there was no criminal offence that he was guilty of at the time, so the USA created an offence and charged him retroactively. They had to have their lamb for slaughter, the only living person to be found on the compound after the bombardment.

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[ilostmypassword]

15 minutes ago, Rancid said:

Reminds me of Oz paying illegal immigrants huge amounts of money for incarcerating them and not allowing them into the country. The West sure are suckers for shifty lawyers...

Especially when they have a mountain of evidence to show miscarriage of justice.

[thaihome]

On 7/7/2017 at 2:02 PM, Kerryd said:

There are a lot of pissed off people over this and the government is in damage control mode.
They keep trying to pain Omar Kadhr as some kind of innocent "child soldier" despite his actions and him being over the age limit to be defined as such.

 

One idiot MP even sent out a "tweet" trying to justify Omar's actions by claiming that the US had "invaded his country", that he'd been "pressed into service at 15" and had been given "improper medical and legal treatment".
(I sent that MP a rather nasty email pointing out his lies and he has since deleted his tweet. I let him know we'd remember him come election time.)

 

Omar Kadhr's parents (father - Egyptian, mother - Palestinian) went to Canada (the land of milk and honey and most importantly - easy to get citizenship and passports). Omar's father was in Pakistan and Afghanistan from the early 80s, where the father made contacts with such notables as  Ayman al-Zawahiri (the 2nd highest person in Al Qeada), Abu Laith al-Libi (a known senior leader in Al Qaeda) and Osama bin Laden himself, along with assorted warlords and other terrorists.
Omar's father (Ahmed Kadhr) had set up a charity to help the widows and children from the conflict in Afghanistan (the Soviet invasion conflict, not the American invasion).
 

The family "moved" back to Canada in 1986, in time for Omar to be born (got to love that superior Canadian healthcare - oh and the "golden passport" of course) ! It seems they made sure to be in Canada for the births of all their children, before going back to Pakistan.

They moved back to Pakistan not long after. In 1992 Ahmed was wounded (in Afghanistan) and (no surprise) they moved back to Canada (got to love that Canadian healthcare  and passport - so convenient) ! Omar was around 6 at the time. While Ahmed's "charity" reported that he was wounded from stepping on a land mine (inside a refugee camp), one of his sons said it was from a bomb (or mortar round) from a warlord opposed to whoever Ahmed was being cozy with at the time.

(In 1994 Ahmed sent his 2 oldest sons to a "military training camp" that allegedly was run by Al Qaeda.)

 

In 1995 they moved back to Pakistan. Later that year, Ahmed arranged a marriage between his daughter (Zaynab) and an Egyptian man. That man (Khalid Abdullah) lived with the family for 2 months as a "trial" arrangement. While there, the Egyptian Embassy in Pakistan was bombed. Khalid Abdullah disappeared immediately. The police came to Kadhr's home and Zaynab grabbed an AK-47 and started screaming at the police. Omar's father wasn't home but was arrested later on. He was suspected of having helped finance the bombing through his "charity".
Liberal Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien personally intervened to get him released and returned to Canada. After arriving in Canada, he almost immediately turned around and moved his family to Afghanistan.

The "fiance" turned up in Iran in 1997 and was able to sneak back into Pakistan, where he married Zaynab . The marriage lasted a whole 6 months (no Canadian citizenship or passport for you buddy) ! Khalid was eventually arrested and deported to Egypt for his role in the embassy bombing. 
In 1998 the Kadhr family was apparently living with Osama bin Laden's family in their house in Nazim Jihad (near Jalalabad, Afghanistan). Osama moved to a different house later on and apparently didn't invite the Kadhr family to move with them.

In February 2002, the 15 year, 4 month old Omar asked to be allowed to move into a "guest house" with a group of "Arab" men that included the aforementioned Abu Laith al-Libi. Over the next 5 months Omar received training in bomb making and weapons.

(Note that according to the Geneva Convention, and most other international treaties, child soldiers are defined as those under 15 years of age.)

In July of that year Omar was involved in the firefight with US forces in which Sgt Speer was killed by a grenade thrown by Omar. Omar has stated that, despite being given the opportunity to surrender, he threw 2 grenades and continued to fire his AK-47 until he was wounded.
Allegedly, when the US troops checked him and found he was still alive, he begged to be killed. Instead, the troops gave him medical aid and air-lifted him to the hospital in Bagram.

So lets see.

Father (Ahmed Kadhr) was a well known associate of several well known (and highly ranked) terrorists. Was suspected of using his charity organization to finance an embassy bombing. Killed in a shoot out with Pakistani security forces in 2003. He had been holed up with his youngest son in a "safe house" with a number of suspected terrorists in the South Waziristan region of Pakistan. (Pakistan claimed to have killed 12 Al Qaeda and Taliban terrorists in the raid.)

 

2 eldest sons ( Abdullah and Abdurahman) are sent to an "alleged" terrorist training camp in 1994.

Abdullah later arrested for supplying weapons to Al Qaeda. Was arrested in Pakistan, who refused to extradite him to the US. Eventually sent to Canada, who have also refused to extradite him to the US.

Abdurahman was arrested in Afghanistan (numerous times apparently) but kept getting released. Claims to have been a CIA operative. Eventually sent to Guantanamo (supposedly) in 2002, but claims the CIA sent him to Bosnia to spy on Muslims there. Claims he went to several Canadian embassies but was turned away by all of them. Eventually admitted to the embassy in Bosnia and flown to Canada. Claims to have "grown up in an Al Qaeda family". He has made numerous claims over the years that have proven to be outright lies.
Abdulkareem, the youngest son (age 14 at the time), was with his father at the "safe house" in the South Waziristan region of Pakistan when it was attacked by Pakistani security forces. He was wounded and ended up paralyzed. Sent to Canada in 2004. After a 3 month waiting period, was eligible for provincial healthcare (standard period for everyone not previously covered). 

Omar Kadhr. Voluntarily joins an Al Qaeda terrorist cell and received training in bomb making and weapons. Wounded in firefight with US forces. Treated and (eventually) sent to Guantanamo. Was NOT subject to "harsh" interrogation techniques (i.e. water boarding) but was "threatened with spending the rest of his life in jail" and threatened that "he may be raped in the shower by large black men" and at times was not allowed to go to the bathroom when he wanted to.No actual physical abuse. ("Following the hearing, the military judge ruled that there was no credible evidence that Khadr had been tortured as alleged, and that his confession was gained after it was revealed that Americans had discovered a videotape of Khadr and others making IED's.")
8 years after being captured, he finally agrees to a plea deal (in 2010). In 2012 he is transferred to Canada and in Feb 2015 is released with a number of conditions, including have to wear an electronic (ankle) monitor, having monitoring software on his computer and being required to converse in English. By Sept his lawyers had managed to get most of his restrictions removed and he is pretty much free to do what he wants now.

Moreso now that he has just been given $10 million (which his lawyers will take a large hunk of for sure). Apparently the government moved to pay him the money as fast as they could so that the widow of Sgt Speers couldn't get an injunction against him in order to claim that pay out (she was awarded a large payout in the US courts but that can't be enforced in Canada).

 

Finally, let us not forget Zaynab. Her second marriage was in Kabul in 1999 and it was attended by none other than Both al-Zawahiri and Osama bin Laden ! The #1 and #2 leaders of Al Qaeda ! In 2004 Zaynab was quoted as saying that the (previous) 5 years she'd spent living with the Taliban were the best 5 years of her life. After Osama was killed, she adopted his "mugshot" as her Facebook profile page.
Her Canadian passport had been cancelled in Pakistan after her father was deemed to be a "terrorist" but somehow, in 2005, she was able to fly back to Canada (hmmmmm - I wonder how). The RCMP were waiting for her and confiscated her laptop which apparently had some juicy intel on it, including the locations of some veteran Al Qaeda terrorists. Of course she claimed to know nothing about that and said she'd bought the laptop 2nd hand months earlier. Strange how it seems no one believed her !

Zaynab and her mother were apparently placed on a "passport control list" due to the fact numerous times they had both reported having "lost" their passports since 1999. Really not a secret what was going on there.
Oddly enough, apparently in 2012 she was somehow able to fly to Turkey and was apparently married again (for the 4th time). However, it seems that in Jan or Feb of 2016 she was arrested in Turkey for some reason and it seems she is still being held there. (I'd seen a different story yesterday that said she'd flown there in Feb 2016 but now it seems it was 2012.)

 

So the whole family has been intricately involved with terrorists since the early 80s and some at least probably are still, at the very least, sympathetic and supportive.

 

Side note - Zaynab's 3rd husband was none other than the Canadian Joshua Boyle ! They were married in 2009 after he seemingly adopted her cause (to have Omar released from Guantanamo). 

Who is Joshua Boyle you ask ?

Well, after the marriage with Zaynab ended, Josh married an American girl (Caitlin Coleman). In 2012 they went on a "back packing" trip through the "stans" (Khazakstan, Uzbekistan, etc), where they kept in constant contact with their relatives.

Then, for some strange reason, they decided to take a detour into Afghanistan, which was still a war zone (still is). His wife is SIX months pregnant at this time. Didn't bother telling the relatives anything until finally in October, Josh sends an email, from Kabul, telling his parents that they are in a "very dangerous part of the country". (Note that Kabul was probably the safest part of the country for a young white couple to be.)
The next day he makes a cash withdrawal from an ATM machine in Kabul and they travel to Wardak province to go "hiking in the mountains" !!!

I spent 2 years in Kabul (2003-2005), which sits at 6,000' feet in elevation, higher than Denver, Colorado or Mexico City. The place is surrounded by steep mountains (the "Hindu Kush" which are kind of the tail part of the Himalayas). They get very nasty winters there. Wardak is to the West and is also mountainous and also well known as a very dangerous place to be. It is considered "high risk" and under the "defacto" control of the Taliban.
Needless to say, the couple "disappear" after travelling there. Why the **** would anyone take their 6 month pregnant wife hiking in the mountains in the winter time in a high risk area that is effectively controlled by terrorists ?
Unless of course you happened to have been married to a member of the Kadhr family at one time and probably had contacts with various terrorists. In the spring of 2013 two short videos were "smuggled" out of Afghanistan. Each short video (under 2 minutes) showed just Josh and Caitlin (no "terrorists" and strangely, no child). They were both dressed in clothing that I would describe as being more Pakistani in origin than Afghani (but hey, I only spent 10 years working there so what do I know ?). They claimed they had been kidnapped, but made no demands of any kind ! No "kidnappers" were seen, no weapons, they weren't bound in anyway and had some kind of bedsheet as a backdrop instead of a "terrorist" flag. No outside noises or music was heard to give any clues as to were they might actually be.

After that was nothing but complete silence again for what, 1 1/2 years before another video came out. Again, no ransom demands, no kidnappers or weapons. Different clothes (still looking more like Pakistan than Afghanistan), a different backdrop and no kid(s).
Sometime later another video comes out. Almost everything is the same except this time they make a demand ! Unless Afghanistan stops executing terrorist murderers, they will be killed ! Coincidentally, the son of the leader of the notorious Haqqani network is scheduled to be executed in the near future.
Nothing happens and the couple aren't killed. What a surprise.
The last messages now claim that the wife was abused in front of her children.

Pretty generous of those "kidnappers" to not make any demands for the release of these two eh ? Apparently from all appearances keeping them well fed and dressed and having the opportunity to make babies. Josh at one point had claimed he was allowed out to get exercise and such.
What it really sounds like is these two willingly went in search of a group of terrorists, knew where to look and how to find them. Since then they have been living with them and no doubt earning their keep (probably though language lessons but maybe they have other skills as well).

Of course, if one day you decide to come home, you don't want to be arrested on arrival and charged with being a member of a terrorist group so what do you do ? Well, you claim you were kidnapped ! That way, despite all the evidence saying otherwise, you can come home and pretend to be "victims" and reap all the sympathy that would come with a long captivity, and I'm sure that "sympathy" would include large book and movie deals as well.

Well, that turned out quite a bit longer and more detailed than I had originally planned. I guess that's the result of spending too long getting too involved with an issue ! I need to start doing other things I think !!

 

Though a very good summation of the criminal case, it still appears as nothing more then an endorsement and excuse for denying a person his civil rights to a fair and legal day in court.  You could make the same argument for lynching many people.

 

A person's guilt or innocence is immaterial to his right to be treated legally within a criminal justice system.  This is a fundamental basis for a democracy.

 

The fact that this person was detained in Guatanmo, tried in Guatanmo,  then served a sentence in Guatanmo shows that both the US and Canadian  governments were unwilling to do any of those actions within their countries' criminal justice systems.

 

Why not? Because they knew it was illegal to do so and would never withstand judicial review.  

 

He is not getting the money because he is innocent.  He is getting the money because he was denied his rights under a democratic system. He is getting the money not because he deserves the money, but the Canadian Government should pay for their mistake. The Canadian taxpayers should pay because they elected a government that did this.

 

TH  

[Grubster]

On 7/7/2017 at 1:50 PM, retarius said:

Good on him. This will change his life for the better after years of torture and suffering in Guantanamo, the moral under-stain of America.

So what about the US army medic that he shot to death?