Where do i have my baby? Australia or Thailand? Advice Please!!!

[Aussie17]

Hi,

 

I have few questions i need help with.

Im currently pregnant with a thai, and I am unsure on whether im best to have baby in Thailand or Australia?

 

We have decided that in future we are moving to Australia for my childs schooling ect but the hospitals here are supposbly better when giving birth?

 

Is it easy to get an australian citizenship if my child ia born in thailand ?

 

What if my child was born in Australia would it be hard getting a Thai Citizenship?

 

And am i correct its better for my child to grow up with schooling ect in Australia?

 

Im only 21 and i have great concern on whats better and whats not and thought this would be the best place to ask.

 

Thankyou [emoji4] [emoji4] [emoji4]

 

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[lemonjelly]

For you kid's sake, go home gal


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[saakura]

21 years old and pregnant. Have you taken the advise of your parents? They would be the best persons to know your situation and will always have your best interests in their heart, you are their child! 

Edited July 7, 2017 by saakura

[Aussie17]

Okay i didnt come on this to get judged... To answer your questions I have been here for 2 years. I am married with a non immigrant o visa.. We have our own house here, and he has a well paying job and has just recently spent 3 months in Australia with me aswell....

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[Aussie17]

I have alot of support in thailand plus parents who own there own house here aswell and come and go from australia....

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[perthperson]

As a Western woman, who probably wishes to be involved in the process of her pregnancy and confinement,  you should seriously consider having your baby in Australia. In Thailand, even as a private patient,  you will be denied involvement, it will be difficult to secure answers to any question(s) you may have and you will be steered toward a Cesarean birth whether that is clinically indicated or not. 

 

Best wishes for whatever you decide.

[BEVUP]

21 minutes ago, Aussie17 said:

Okay i didnt come on this to get judged... To answer your questions I have been here for 2 years. I am married with a non immigrant o visa.. We have our own house here, and he has a well paying job and has just recently spent 3 months in Australia with me aswell....

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Well that's a bit better as the posters can now inform you better

But please read the many threads on this forum 

To me if you are planning on the return to Auss it would no doubt be a better idea for childs education,unless you are prepared to pay a lot of money, 

It shouldn't be a problem either way concerning Ctz - You would just apply to the country that the child wasn,t born in on the grounds of Citizenship by birth from the Citizen of that country

 

PS : If your husband went to Auss for 3 mths on a tourist visa that is nothing compared to applying for a long term one - know a few people & it costed thousands & much difficulties

 

 

Edited July 7, 2017 by BEVUP

[richard_smith237]

I have friends who decided upon having their child in a hospital in Australia... after birth a minor congenital defect was found, they were extremely relieved with their decision to have their child in a hospital in Australia where communication was much much easier for them. 

 

That said, my Wife gave birth in Bumrungrad Hospital in Bangkok - the Cost was 330,000 baht (insurance paid), you can also buy packages which at the high end hospitals costs about 120,000 baht for 3 nights, however, any issues and you could soon find yourself with a huge bill. 

 

Thus: the deciding factor really should be, does your insurance cover all maternity related issues ?

 

If cost isn't an issue, consider communication although at the top hospitals most Dr's speak pretty good to excellent English. 

 

Another point to consider is your support network... who and where are they....

 

 

Regarding nationality. If you were born in Australia and are Australian, so is he... automatically.

Although if your child is born in Thailand you will need to apply for an Australian passport for the child before he/she travels internationally from Thailand (to Australia)

 

Best of luck... 

 

 

 

 

[ben2talk]

2 hours ago, Aussie17 said:

We have decided that in future we are moving to Australia for my childs schooling ect but the hospitals here are supposbly better when giving birth?

 

Is it easy to get an australian citizenship if my child ia born in thailand ?

 

What if my child was born in Australia would it be hard getting a Thai Citizenship?

 

And am i correct its better for my child to grow up with schooling ect in Australia?

 

Im only 21 and i have great concern on whats better and whats not and thought this would be the best place to ask.

I can't comment comparing hospitals. My son was born in a Thai hospital, if it's not a fleapit then it should be fine. Nationality isn't a problem because he's the son of you, an Australian, so he's fine to get an Aussie passport.

 

Australian schooling would be so much cheaper than the equivalent in Bangkok, and so much better than anything cheaper in Bangkok it's a no-brainer for most people - unless they can manage a top tier international program.

 

Culture is another issue. Your main focus from the start might be what University Education will be available, so I'd say that after school there'll be a good reason to live abroad to study for a few years. It's a simple fact that any Thai with a foreign degree is worth millions more than the equivalent home educated version.

You're going to need to work this one out with Daddy.

 

If you choose to bring up your child here, then drop me a line. I have some good ideas I can pass on outside the public forum. Don't take it harshly - lots of bitter people around, and many people just reacting off the cuff with negative attitudes.

 

It makes no difference if you're 21 or 31 - the main things for you to think about are basic ones. About surviving and bringing up your child, about what you're going to do, what his father's going to do, about who's going to be taking care of things while you do things...

 

I found it easy here in Thailand, the expense in England would be a different story... however it's not an easy decision that he'll live here and suffer education here. I have a lot to compensate for.

 

Mostly I'm happy that he has a solid and extended family and feels very happy and safe. He is also possibly much better and nicer for not having grown up in the U.K.

 

But really, none of us really know what we're doing - there's no rule book. Do what you think is best.

Edited July 7, 2017 by ben2talk

[Scott]

Inflammatory post reported and removed.   

[Jonathan Fairfield]

My daughter was born in a Thai hospital, which is probably better (and cleaner) than the local NHS hospital I would have used in the UK. Drs, Nurses spoke good English etc.

 

That said, given how expensive it can get having a baby in a Thai hospital and the fact that you may want to be in more familiar surroundings during the final stages of your pregnancy going back to Aus might be your best option.

 

 

[gjoo888]

As far as the legal aspects of insuring that your child has Australian citizenship if you decide to have the birth in Thailand, contact the Aussie Embassy in Bangkok to see what the requirements are and what documents you'll need to provide. As an American who had a child born in Thailand, I had to apply for a "Consular Report of Birth Abroad of a Citizen." I would think that Australia has a similar procedure.  If you decide to have the birth in Australia, you might want to contact the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs here before you leave or the Thai Embassy in Australia. Congratulations and best of luck. 

[Preacher]

Getting Thai nationality for the child is no problem, as long as you are married or the father legitimizes the child. The child will than have Thai nationality automatically as one of the parents is Thai. If born in Australia you will only have to register the birth at the Thai embassy or general consulate (after having been through the Australian process). Than the Thai government knows that a Thai citizen was born.

 

[FritsSikkink]

13 hours ago, perthperson said:

As a Western woman, who probably wishes to be involved in the process of her pregnancy and confinement,  you should seriously consider having your baby in Australia. In Thailand, even as a private patient,  you will be denied involvement, it will be difficult to secure answers to any question(s) you may have and you will be steered toward a Cesarean birth whether that is clinically indicated or not. 

 

Best wishes for whatever you decide.

"you will be steered toward a Cesarean birth whether that is clinically indicated or not." nonsense 

[perthperson]

30 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

"you will be steered toward a Cesarean birth whether that is clinically indicated or not." nonsense 

 

Before you start chucking words like "nonsense" around you should check some facts.

 

It is a fact that Cesarean births are 'preferred' by wealthy Thais and that option is also pressed upon non Thais especially within private hospitals. It is also a fact that most(all) Thai maternity facilities (public or private) exclude a woman's partner/family members  from the delivery suit.

 

It is also a fact that Western women are encouraged to be involved in their pregnancy/confinement.   https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/servicesandsupport/developing-a-birth-plan Or http://www.kemh.health.wa.gov.au/services/fbc/index.htm are examples. 

 

Find one woman in Thailand who has been actively encouraged by Thai Obstetricians/Midwives to develop a "birth plan" and I will withdraw from this thread.

Edited July 8, 2017 by perthperson

[Aussieroaming]

Australian Citizenship

The process of applying for Australian citizenship varies depending on your eligibility. There are a number of different application options with different eligibility requirements. To apply for Australian citizenship you must first determine if you are eligible. You can use our Citizenship Wizardto guide you on what to do and how to apply for Australian citizenship.

Australian Citizenship by Descent

Applications for citizenship by descent are processed at the Department of Immigration and Border Protection in Australian Embassy Bangkok, Thailand. A person born outside Australia who is the child of an Australian citizen parent may acquire Australian citizenship by descent. A person becomes a citizen on the date he/she is registered as a citizen by the Department of Immigration and Border Protection. A child born overseas can be registered as an Australian citizen by descent if at least one of the parents is an Australian citizen at the time of the child’s birth.

A parent can apply for registration of Australian citizenship by descent on behalf of the child before the child reaches 16 years of age.

On 30 July 2015, Thai legislation banning commercial surrogacy came into effect. Australians are advised not to visit Thailand for the purpose of engaging in commercial surrogacy arrangements. Please see the Smart Traveller website for more information for Australians travelling to Thailand.
http://www.smarttraveller.gov.au/zw-cgi/view/Advice/Thailand
 

How to apply for Citizenship by Descent

If the applicant is under 16, a responsible parent must apply on the child’s behalf. A responsible parent is a person that has ongoing parental responsibility for the child.

Note: Under Thai law, a father listed on the birth certificate may not necessarily be a legal parent if he was not married to the mother at the time of the child’s birth.  In this situation and to avoid doubt, the mother should sign the application form.

1. Download the Citizenship by descent checklist. The checklist will help you prepare all the documents you need for the application.
2. Download and complete the correct form - Form 118
3. Make sure you have the right application fee

4. Read the information on how and where to lodge your application
 

Processing time

The time taken for applications to be assessed fluctuates based on the number of applications received at any one time by the department.

For current processing times please visit:  Global visa and citizenship processing times

 

 

[exemplary21]

You may, but not necessarily, have more options in Australia e.g. a birthing centre rather than a hospital ward.

 

Cost and language environment are also considerations.

 

That said, I've never seen any evidence to suggest that the Australian health system is intrinsically better than the Thai.

 

What's most important is where you're comfortable having your baby and where you'll be well supported by family and others.

 

We have a 9 year old and a 5 year old born and being educated here in Thailand and have always been happy with the health and education systems.

 

Others' mileage will no doubt vary...

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, FritsSikkink said:

"you will be steered toward a Cesarean birth whether that is clinically indicated or not." nonsense 

 

Actually very, very true 80 - 90% of the time if in a private hospital.

 

OP: care is not "better" here, though it is in most cases quite acceptable.

 

You need to consider the financial aspect. Delivery will not be free here, even at a government hospital, despite the fact that once born your child as a Thai citizen will be eligible for free care (you yourself, not).

 

While an uncomplicated delivery of a healthy newborn is pretty affordable here (and very affordable in government hospitals), if there are complications  costs can skyrocket. In Australia you can presumably get care free of charge.

 

Things like father in the delivery room, rooming-in afterwards etc etc that are taken for granted in the west, can be hard to arrange here especially in a government hospital.

 

And unless your Thai is fluent you may find being in labor with non-English speaking staff all around you to be traumatic.

[williamgeorgeallen]

nothing wrong with thai hospitals. both my kids were born at memorial hospital in pattaya, cost about 50k each. as much as i love living in thailand i moved home to nz when my eldest turned 5.  i think a western upbringing is very important. you are a rarety being a western  female with a thai as the dad to your kid. i never saw that in the 10 years i was in thailand. important thing is getting all spelling on the birth cert correct.  good luck.

[perthperson]

1 minute ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

nothing wrong with thai hospitals.

I do not believe anyone has suggest there is. However, this topic is about a Western lady asking about where she should have her confinement. Western ladies often have very different attitudes/expectations about pregnancy/childbirth than do Thais. 

 

It is unlikely that the expectations of Western ladies will be met in a Thai hospital and some options (available in the West) ar not provided in Thailand. 

 

The OP should make her decision based on the facts. 

[williamgeorgeallen]

5 minutes ago, perthperson said:

I do not believe anyone has suggest there is. However, this topic is about a Western lady asking about where she should have her confinement. Western ladies often have very different attitudes/expectations about pregnancy/childbirth than do Thais. 

 

It is unlikely that the expectations of Western ladies will be met in a Thai hospital and some options (available in the West) ar not provided in Thailand. 

 

The OP should make her decision based on the facts. 

memorial was very good. private room, cleans and so on. friend used bangkok which was very good with not just a private room but like a private apartment. what more could a western woman want?

[perthperson]

12 minutes ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

memorial was very good. private room, cleans and so on. friend used bangkok which was very good with not just a private room but like a private apartment. what more could a western woman want?

 

If you judge the standard/quality of a medical service by the availability of an (expensive?) private room then I am truly sorry for you. 

[FritsSikkink]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

Actually very, very true 80 - 90% of the time if in a private hospital.

 

OP: care is not "better" here, though it is in most cases quite acceptable.

 

You need to consider the financial aspect. Delivery will not be free here, even at a government hospital, despite the fact that once born your child as a Thai citizen will be eligible for free care (you yourself, not).

 

While an uncomplicated delivery of a healthy newborn is pretty affordable here (and very affordable in government hospitals), if there are complications  costs can skyrocket. In Australia you can presumably get care free of charge.

 

Things like father in the delivery room, rooming-in afterwards etc etc that are taken for granted in the west, can be hard to arrange here especially in a government hospital.

 

And unless your Thai is fluent you may find being in labor with non-English speaking staff all around you to be traumatic.

Don't have that experience with 3 kids (4, 12, 25)

Edited July 8, 2017 by FritsSikkink

[FritsSikkink]

3 hours ago, perthperson said:

 

Before you start chucking words like "nonsense" around you should check some facts.

 

It is a fact that Cesarean births are 'preferred' by wealthy Thais and that option is also pressed upon non Thais especially within private hospitals. It is also a fact that most(all) Thai maternity facilities (public or private) exclude a woman's partner/family members  from the delivery suit.

 

It is also a fact that Western women are encouraged to be involved in their pregnancy/confinement.   https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/servicesandsupport/developing-a-birth-plan Or http://www.kemh.health.wa.gov.au/services/fbc/index.htm are examples. 

 

Find one woman in Thailand who has been actively encouraged by Thai Obstetricians/Midwives to develop a "birth plan" and I will withdraw from this thread.

Wife didn't get steered for a Caesarean birth with 3 kids (4, 12, 25) FACT. Didn't feel the urge to develop a birth plan.

[williamgeorgeallen]

1 hour ago, perthperson said:

 

If you judge the standard/quality of a medical service by the availability of an (expensive?) private room then I am truly sorry for you. 

no need to be sorry. thats what our girls wanted, and it certainly was not expensive. medical services seemed to be excellent as well.

[khunPer]

19 hours ago, Aussie17 said:

Is it easy to get an australian citizenship if my child ia born in thailand ?

 

What if my child was born in Australia would it be hard getting a Thai Citizenship?

 

And am i correct its better for my child to grow up with schooling ect in Australia?

1)

You can properly read more at the Australian embassy's web-page about citizenship, but normally it's no problem for a child to obtain same citizenship as the mother, however in some countries it can be difficult to have the father's citizenship when born in another country, especially if he's not married to the mother.

 

2)

To my knowledge, not hard. I have Thai friend with a young Danish girlfriend, and she got pregnant and gave birth in her home country. I checked for him about citizenship, as it was then (a few years ago) possible for a child born abroad with a Thai father, not married to the mother, to obtain Thai citizenship; also having dual nationality. However, he did not want that, as he was having a son, and he was afraid his son then later would be called for military duty in Thailand. I believe that as long as the Thai father is duly registered as father, the option is open; also for later applying for Thai citizenship. I'm not sure if a Thai man living abroad can be called in for military duty in Thailand.

 

3)

I cannot say anything about Australian schools, I'm from Scandinavia (Europe), but have a daughter born in Thailand, and with Thai citizenship. Will reply with some of your other questions also here...

 

My daughter was born in a provincial government (public) hospital – because her Thai mother wished a hospital she knew, and close to her family – planned cesarean a few days in advance due to some complications. Everything went perfect, and I was impressed over the quality of service, coming from Denmark, which is supposed to be a leading country for good public hospitals (maybe more history). In a public hospital you can for a modest sur-charge buy a so-called VIP-room, a private room. However, there might be difference between hospitals in various provinces, some posters seem to be very happy (like me), and others seem to have reservations. Another option is a private hospital, which can be quite costly; especially if any complications arise.

 

When my daughter was born, we did not have an option for using a hospital in my home country, as we are not married (Denmark is quite difficult with foreigners) – and we also had planned to live in Thailand – whilst in your situation I would recommend you to consider Australia, a country you know the health system in, and a staff that speaks your language (if you don't speak Thai); and presumable also have your family as back up.

 

If you plan your future to be in Australia, schooling and education of you child will in my opinion be better there. If you on the other hand plan for a future in Thailand, living together here with your Thai souse, then it will be a benefit for you child's education to be in school here. But again there is a "however", as there is a huge difference in schools. A public village school in a rural area is different from a public school in a major city; and a public Thai school is different from a private school, being it EP (English program) or International school. Finding a good school from Primary 1 – i.e. around 5-6 year of age, equivalent to Year 2 in International level – can be a challenge, depending of where you settle in Thailand. Also, the better schools can be relative costly – especially "relative" as a young woman may not (yet) have a high income, so it's depending of family support and your Thai spouse's financial level – so don't be surprised of annual tution fee's in 100,000 baht level, and up to several hundred thousand bath if in an International school.

 

Thai education of children start early, at 3-4 years old with 3 levels of Kindergarten class, Anuban1/K1 to Anuban3/K3, after nursery, the last (K3) is equivalent to UK's Year 1 in Key Stage 1, age 5-6 years old.

Thai Primary School, covering Key Stage 1-3:

Primary 1-6 equal UK's Year 2 to Year 7

Thai Secondary School, covering Key Stage 3-4:

Matthayom 1-4 equal UK's Year 8 to Year 11
Furthermore

Matthayom 5-6 equal UK's Year 12 to Year 13

 

There's supposed to be free public school in Thailand for 12-years; however there are normally some fees for books, and uniform, and transport (I'm not familiar enough with public Thai schools).

 

A graduation certificate from a public Thai school may not be worth much if moving outside Thailand, whilst a graduation certificate from an International school in Thailand is said to be in Cambridge-level. I'm in a position where I can afford an EP-program school P1-P6 – with focus on English tuition combined with Thai, and Thai traditions – and from Year 8 (M1) an International school. I have so far been very satisfied with the school we chose – compared to Danish experience, and what I hear as comparison from Danish friends, I actually find the school here better – but you should carefully consider comparison with you home country, especially if your school choice is for a public school either here, or in Australia.

 

Wish the best for you.

[4MyEgo]

A lot of good advice here.

 

Short and sweet, have the kid in Australia then apply for Thai Citizenship, both our daughters have Ozzie and Thai Passports, I expect your bundles of paperwork will be in order.

 

Education is up to you, we moved here almost 2 years ago from Australia, we have an 8 year old who was 6 when she started school here and took on Thai with out a problem and is in the top 10 in her class, the little one just turned 3 and will start next year and if they want to go to Uni in Australia at a later date, "up to them", personally schooling for me was always the basics, the rest is what you have up top in my opinion, sure degrees open doors if that's the life you want your kid/s to have, been there, done that, personally, the village life, with lots of family and the kids around to play with, like the life we had when we grew up offers more for us and our kids, as opposed to being a slave to a mortgage and a "slave life" back in Oz to support everyone else and the politicians, "each to their own", i.e. if you love the money stay in Oz, we chose the life, as the old saying from the Thai's goes, you farang have money but no life, we Thai's have the life, but no money, so its a matter of choice really.

 

Hospital, Australia hands down, not that I have anything bad to say about Thai hospitals, having gone under the blade myself, its just that back in Sydney, my wife started hemorrhaging at the mid wives change of shift on the birth of our 2nd daughter (sorry), yes it was terrifying, but the quick action of everyone, and I mean everyone saved her life, people were coming in from everywhere, and they knew exactly what they were doing, (team work, it was synchronised) if I can say that. I will never go through that again, nor will she as we are not planning for anymore kids, but in an Aussie hospital, I think you have a better chance, have witnessed 3 births, and was always confident with the staff and the back up on hand. 

 

As for Citizenship for your partner, my mate just went through the partner visa or defacto visa, not sure what its called, but his partner had to wait 2 years, although he would get her 3 month tourist visa's at a time, before she was approved, cost him about $8,000 for the partner visa, I know that because he is a cheap Charlie and kept reminding me of it every time he opened his mouth, now that she has it he has finally shut up.

 

Good luck with everything, 21 is a great age to have a kid regardless of what these old diggers say. 

Edited July 8, 2017 by 4MyEgo

[bazza73]

9 hours ago, exemplary21 said:

.

 

That said, I've never seen any evidence to suggest that the Australian health system is intrinsically better than the Thai.

 

What  utter rubbish. The first thing Thai doctors do is throw a bunch of pills at you. Their ability as diagnosticians, based on personal experience, is below par. And they don't like having informed questions asked. They are accustomed to delivering diagnoses to sheep.

Sure, it's cheaper here - except if you are over 70. It's cheaper for me to fly back to Australia for health checks with private health insurance - costs me nothing except the airfare - than doing the checks here. Can't get health insurance here over 70, pre-existing conditions..

As far as the OP is concerned, I'm surprised she even needs to ask the question. Ask yourself whether a Thai qualification in any field is regarded as superior to any gained in Australia.

As an example, the FRACS and FRACP medical qualifications are regarded as superior to the original British FRCS and FRCP.

The OP will save herself a lot of  hassle by having the child born in Australia. Australian bureaucrats sometimes get it right - after they have tried everything else.

[simple1]

An important matter for the OP to consider. For those who had children born in Thailand and partner underwent cesarean operation; what was the level of scarring? I have seen two Thai women with awful permanent scarring from cesarean operation who went to a private hospital.

 

OP, As I mentioned in your other closed topic, if you and husband relocate to Australia, what are his prospects for employment in Oz? As you know cost of living in Oz is expensive, it will be very challenging to get a reasonably well paid job without internationally recognised qualification/s. Even with international qualification professions often require resitting exams in Oz. Wait time for partner visa for husband is around 9 - 12 months, no professional job without a partner visa in hand or job sponsorship visa.

 

FYI I have been married with a Thai for more than 20 years, now living in Oz. Best of luck...

Edited July 8, 2017 by simple1

[bazza73]

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

An important matter for the OP to consider. For those who had children born in Thailand and partner underwent cesarean operation; what was the level of scarring? I have seen two Thai women with awful permanent scarring from cesarean operation who went to a private hospital.

 

Valid point. My Thai GF has a foot-long scar on her tummy, although that was a government hospital. In Australia or the USA, the surgeon would have been sued for malpractice.