Tasty!

[Joosesis]

What is the difference between น่ากิน and น่าอร่อย ?    I thought they were interchangeable, but have recently been corrected to use น่าอร่อย when I see a picture of something that I imagine would be tasty.

 

[tgeezer]

Your interlocutor is being pedantic, กิน is a verb 'to eat', อร่อย is an adjective meaning 'has a good taste' (tasty?) น่า goes before a verb giving your opinion on the desirability of doing that verb, น่ากิน (I would like to eat that) also means that you think that it looks tasty.
So น่าอร่อย is meaningless grammatically but perhaps it is common parlance and used instead of น่ากิน and this person seems to have found a way to justify its use.



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[Joosesis]

I am an advanced learner so I appreciate pedantries.  The person who corrected me did so confidently and swiftly, so I thought maybe there was a nuanced difference between the two.  Maybe not.

[Chou Anou]

1 hour ago, Joosesis said:

I am an advanced learner so I appreciate pedantries.  The person who corrected me did so confidently and swiftly, so I thought maybe there was a nuanced difference between the two.  Maybe not.

I've been corrected (in a playful manner) between the two before as well, but not in a consistent manner that I can detect, so my sense is that if there is a difference between the two, it's probably stylistic, and I personally haven't been able to determine the parameters of it yet.  

 

However, the statement "น่าอร่อย is meaningless grammatically" that the other responder to your post made is ridiculous; if native speakers use it in communication--and many certainly do!--then it is most definitely "meaningful"...  น่า goes before many adjectives (not just verbs), of course, to indicate a desirability or a tendency.  At any rate, it's always dangerous to put too much stock in Western categories such as "verb" and "adjective" when analyzing Southeast Asian languages.

[DavidHouston]

Khun Chou, I completely agree with your analysis. If the Thais use a particular phrase then it is ipso facto legitimate. If the construction does not within the conventional notion of a particular grammatical construct, then the grammar is incomplete.
 

[tgeezer]

Khun Chou, I completely agree with your analysis. If the Thais use a particular phrase then it is ipso facto legitimate. If the construction does not within the conventional notion of a particular grammatical construct, then the grammar is incomplete.
 

In which case then David there can be no ambiguity, which brings us back to the original question, what is the difference between น่ากิน and น่าอร่อย?



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[DavidHouston]

Well, I have never heard anyone use the term, and those whom I asked did not know. So, I go to my favorite source, "คลังคำ" by นววรรณ พันธุเมธา. There is no primary entry for น่าอร่อย; there is for น่ากิน. The latter is defined as "ดูชวนกิน" under the category "ลักษณะอาหาร".  I have no feeling for the difference in usage. I'll ask around again tonight. My guess? "น่าอร่อย" is a neologism. 

The Thai lexeme has two primary uses 1. as a prefix converting a verb to an adjective, and 2. as a auxiliary verb meaning "should" or "ought to". The word "น่ากิน" is thus easily interpreted as "worthy of being eaten" or appetizing (as well as a verb being converted into an adjective). Since อร่อย is an adjective,  not a verb,  the prefix น่า attached to อร่อย does not seem to fit the first usage. That is, อร่อย is an adjective all by itself; it does not need the น่า prefix to convert it. 

However, it seems to me that the second usage is functional. Take the sentence, "ร้านนี้แพงเหลือเกิน อาหารน่าจะอร่อย" (This restaurant is extraordinarily expensive; the food should be  really good!" Would the Thais recognize the sentence as valid if the จะ were removed? Thus, "ร้านนี้แพงเหลือเกิน อาหารน่าอร่อย".  In this sentence the context would indicate the second usage above which is different than น่ากิน.

But this is pure speculation on my part. Any thoughts?

Edited July 14, 2017 by DavidHouston

[Joosesis]

Thanks for the thoughtful responses.  I have sent a message to the person who corrected me to ask for clarification.  Because of time differences and upcoming weekend, I may not post it until Monday, but stay tuned, I'll share.

 

I did have one thought that maybe it relates to gender.   We are both women and she corrected me in front of an elderly woman.  I'm wondering if น่ากิน conjured up too much of an aggresive response to a picture (I could EAT that!), where as น่าอร่อย sounded softer?   That may be a stretch, but when she corrected me I felt almost a little scolded.  ...which is why, until now, I didn't ask her about it directly. 

[tgeezer]

Well, I have never heard anyone use the term, and those whom I asked did not know. So, I go to my favorite source, "คลังคำ" by นววรรณ พันธุเมธา. There is no primary entry for น่าอร่อย; there is for น่ากิน. The latter is defined as "ดูชวนกิน" under the category "ลักษณะอาหาร".  I have no feeling for the difference in usage. I'll ask around again tonight. My guess? "น่าอร่อย" is a neologism. 

 

The Thai lexeme has two primary uses 1. as a prefix converting a verb to an adjective, and 2. as a auxiliary verb meaning "should" or "ought to". The word "น่ากิน" is thus easily interpreted as "worthy of being eaten" or appetizing (as well as a verb being converted into an adjective). Since อร่อย is an adjective,  not a verb,  the prefix น่า attached to อร่อย does not seem to fit the first usage. That is, อร่อย is an adjective all by itself; it does not need the น่า prefix to convert it. 

 

However, it seems to me that the second usage is functional. Take the sentence, "ร้านนี้แพงเหลือเกิน อาหารน่าจะอร่อย" (This restaurant is extraordinarily expensive; the food should be  really good!" Would the Thais recognize the sentence as valid if the จะ were removed? Thus, "ร้านนี้แพงเหลือเกิน อาหารน่าอร่อย".  In this sentence the context would indicate the second usage above which is different than น่ากิน.

 

But this is pure speculation on my part. Any thoughts?

นววรรณ พันธุเมธา is a person who would probably engender ridicule here because she presumes the grammar to be complete. I have found my original copy of ไวยากรณ์ไทย ​and in the chapter on คำขยาย she shows น่าจะ as คำบอกความเห็น

 

On the topic of นิดการไปเชียงใหม่บ่อย she says that in นิดน่าจะไปเชียงใหม่บ่อย that น่า แสดงความเป็นไปได้โดยพิจารณาจากสภาพกาณร์โอกาสที่นิดจะไปบ่อยมีมากกว่าไม่บอย

 

I think that this means that knowing Nit's circumstances, the speaker feels that it is more likely than not that Nit will go often to Chiang Mai

There is also this example: นิดน่ากลัวไปเชียงใหม่บ่อย where น่า แสดงความคาดคะเน

 

 

So does น่าจะ say likely?

อาหารน่าจะอร่อย would mean that judging by the price people pay for it, the food is likely to be อร่อย .

 

To split hairs :

น่าอร่อย meaning that it looks like something which you will probably find tasty. น่าจะรู้สึกว่าอาหารนั้นอร่อย

น่ากิน meaning I found this tasty. อาหารนี้อาร่อย

 

 

 

 

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[Joosesis]

My friend got back to me, but wasn't entirely helpful. She said:

น่ากิน คือ looks good
น่าอร่อย คือ delicious

Oh, well. I feel at least better that the differences are so subtle that I didn't do harm.

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[Aforek]

11 hours ago, Joosesis said:

My friend got back to me, but wasn't entirely helpful. She said:

น่ากิน คือ looks good
น่าอร่อย คือ delicious

Oh, well. I feel at least better that the differences are so subtle that I didn't do harm.

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I see a difference : น่ากิน คือ looks good   , it makes me want to eat ( from the view or the smell ) ; before the meal 

 

น่าอร่อย คือ delicious ,  when I eat it,   I think  it's delicious ; during the meal 

 

when you type " น่าอร่อย" in Google, you have a full page of it, it's not so rare ...

[tgeezer]

My friend got back to me, but wasn't entirely helpful. She said:

น่ากิน คือ looks good
น่าอร่อย คือ delicious

Oh, well. I feel at least better that the differences are so subtle that I didn't do harm.

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[tgeezer]

 

 

 

 

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Is it possible that your friend feels that when looking at a picture, to say นากิน (ชวนให้=จูงใจบังกับกิน) "pulling me forcefully to eat" when there is nothing to eat, is wrong.

น่าอร่อย has no such restriction. น่าจะอร่อย seems better because it shows that your feeling is that you guess that it is probably something which would prove to มีรสดี

So with the Thai love of omitting words น่าอร่อย = น่าจะอร่อย as I have already said.

 

 

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[eric67]

I asked a friend, she said that both mean delicious looking, but:

 

น่ากิน is used for food meant for yourself.

น่าอร่อย is used to comment on someone elses food.

 

So let's say you're having a meal with a friend and you want to say her bowl of noodles look delicious, if you say น่ากิน it might give the impression you want to snatch it away and eat it yourself   Better to use น่าอร่อย instead.

Edited July 16, 2017 by eric67

[bannork]

3 hours ago, eric67 said:

I asked a friend, she said that both mean delicious looking, but:

 

น่ากิน is used for food meant for yourself.

น่าอร่อย is used to comment on someone elses food.

 

So let's say you're having a meal with a friend and you want to say her bowl of noodles look delicious, if you say น่ากิน it might give the impression you want to snatch it away and eat it yourself   Better to use น่าอร่อย instead.

farang version:

น่ากิน - mmmm, this is great!

น่าอร่อย- that looks delicious!