'Hard work starts now' - Brexit bargaining to begin

[rooster59]

'Hard work starts now' - Brexit bargaining to begin

By Alastair Macdonald

 

FILE PHOTO: European Union's chief Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier addresses a news conference at the EU Commission headquarters in Brussels, Belgium, July 12, 2017. REUTERS/Francois Lenoir

 

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - EU officials hope the British government shows more sense of urgency about a Brexit deal when its negotiators come to Brussels on Monday for a first full round of talks aimed at smoothing Britain's departure.

 

"The hard work starts now," the European Union's chief negotiator Michel Barnier said on Wednesday, again sounding a note of alarm that London has yet to provide detailed proposals on a range of key issues, with barely a year left for bargaining.

 

A year after the referendum vote to leave the bloc propelled her to power, Prime Minister Theresa May still faces a complex task in finding consensus at home on what kind of Brexit Britain wants -- a job made all the harder by losing her parliamentary majority in an election last month.

 

Her Brexit minister, veteran anti-EU campaigner David Davis, is expected to meet Barnier, a French former cabinet minister, at the European Commission's Berlaymont headquarters on Monday morning.

 

They and their teams will then spend up to four days in a mixture of smaller working groups and plenary sessions, with the priority being to identify areas of accord and discord on a set of issues agreed on during an initial day of talks on June 19.

 

These issues, notably the rights of expatriate citizens, how much Britain may owe to the EU budget and how to manage the new EU-UK border, especially with Ireland, are ones both sides want to settle in a withdrawal treaty. Barnier says this must be ready by about October next year if it is to be ratified on both sides of the Channel before Britain leaves in March 2019.

 

"The clock is ticking," he said on Wednesday, displaying a degree of impatience with British ministers who continue to dismiss EU demands that they first must agree in principle that London will owe the Union a hefty amount -- probably in the tens of billions of euros -- to cover its existing commitments.

 

"The first serious test of the negotiations will be them agreeing to pay the bill," a senior EU official said, describing the coming week as a vital moment to establish rapport among the senior civil servants who will handle what is arguably the most convoluted and far-reaching diplomatic deal of modern times.

 

PROGRESS REQUIRED

 

Without "significant progress" on all three priority areas of the divorce package, Barnier warns, EU leaders will not let Davis open talks on a free trade relationship, which May and much of British business want to have ready by the time Britain leaves.

 

For now, the EU says May's offer to guarantee the rights of 3 million Europeans in Britain falls short. It is also unhappy at Britain's refusal to accept EU judges as the ultimate arbiters of disputes -- an issue that could get an early airing as London seeks a quick fix to prevent its withdrawal from the Euratom pact disrupting its nuclear industry and medical imaging.

 

Committed to keep all 27 other EU governments informed and on board with a process in which all have differing interests, the Commission negotiators are insisting on publishing negotiating documents and holding regular news conferences -- a cause of some discomfort in London.

EU officials expect Barnier and Davis to brief reporters again on Thursday, partly to nail down the week's achievements.

 

"It's important to describe our progress," the senior EU official said, likening the Brexit process to trade negotiations that the Commission more typically runs with other governments.

 

"If you don't cash the week's progress in public, by having both sides talk to the media, you never know if your partner will go back later on what they promised to agree."

 

EU leaders hold a regular quarterly summit in mid-October and could use that moment to instruct Barnier to prepare trade negotiations; but that will require good progress next week and in three further week-long rounds of talks.

 

On that timetable, Barnier reckons, a broad political deal on the outlines of a new, open trading relationship could be in place by late next year, allowing for a transitional phase of up to a few years after Brexit to negotiate all the details.

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-07-15

[dunroaming]

This could drag on for years.  We keep hearing "transitional period" indicating that the actual leaving date could be extended for years.  In the meantime business is in limbo which is bound to have a knock effect.

[Grouse]

The French will be away for August!

 

May will be away from October for substantially longer ?

[dunroaming]

Let's not underestimate the reality of Brexit.  Maybe rather than the "Brexit means Brexit" approach we should take a breath and look at all the options.  The EU doesn't want us to leave and it might be possible, even at this stage, to negotiate some compromise with the movement of people and us still remaining as part of the EU.  With Macron on board it is possible that they will be more willing to adapt their original stance.  Surely it is worth considering?  

[topt]

29 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Let's not underestimate the reality of Brexit.  Maybe rather than the "Brexit means Brexit" approach we should take a breath and look at all the options.  The EU doesn't want us to leave and it might be possible, even at this stage, to negotiate some compromise with the movement of people and  us still remaining as part of the EU.  With Macron on board it is possible that they will be more willing to adapt their original stance.  Surely it is worth considering?  

How about the fact that, for better or worse, the vote went the way of leaving the EU.

I don't want to restart all the arguments for either view but I suggest

33 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

us still remaining as part of the EU

should not be an option based on that vote. The demands for multi billions for the EU budget demonstrate one of the reasons they don't want us to leave and a one good reason why I think we should.

I do agree however that the reality of it all is quite frightening in many ways but I am hoping also a great opportunity. Time will tell

[terryw]

The Remainers do not seem to understand that the country voted to Leave. March 29th 2019 is the actual leaving date and the EU will quite rightly stick to that date. Legally it is now irreversable.

[dick dasterdly]

2 hours ago, dunroaming said:

This could drag on for years.  We keep hearing "transitional period" indicating that the actual leaving date could be extended for years.  In the meantime business is in limbo which is bound to have a knock effect.

Not really.

 

Sterling was improving again until the unexpected election result.

 

But I do agree that this is going to "drag on for years" - as UK politicians look for a result that will not result in them losing their seat at the next election.

[sirineou]

1 hour ago, dunroaming said:

Let's not underestimate the reality of Brexit.  Maybe rather than the "Brexit means Brexit" approach we should take a breath and look at all the options.  The EU doesn't want us to leave and it might be possible, even at this stage, to negotiate some compromise with the movement of people and us still remaining as part of the EU.  With Macron on board it is possible that they will be more willing to adapt their original stance.  Surely it is worth considering?  

Let me first say that as an American I am not as well informed on the subject as many of you are, but..

I am not so sure that the EU does not want a Brexit. IMO the UK's " not all in attitude' has being a hinderance to the adoption of integration policies that can straighten the viability of the european experiment .

I think ,and I am sure many EU leaders do also, that  the EU will much better off with out the UK.

 

[dunroaming]

3 hours ago, terryw said:

The Remainers do not seem to understand that the country voted to Leave. March 29th 2019 is the actual leaving date and the EU will quite rightly stick to that date. Legally it is now irreversable.

Yes you are right the country voted to leave but they were not told the consequences of leaving and in fact many voted based on the lies they were told.  Now we can all see that they were lied to and Brexit is not going to give them what they wanted shouldn't they have the opportunity to vote again based on the reality?  How many times have we all said that with hindsight we would have done things differently.  Well for once you can.

 

People talk about new opportunities but when the politicians orchestrating Brexit are questioned about those new opportunities they cannot name one!

[shanesox]

Yes you are right the country voted to leave but they were not told the consequences of leaving and in fact many voted based on the lies they were told.  Now we can all see that they were lied to and Brexit is not going to give them what they wanted shouldn't they have the opportunity to vote again based on the reality?  How many times have we all said that with hindsight we would have done things differently.  Well for once you can.
 
People talk about new opportunities but when the politicians orchestrating Brexit are questioned about those new opportunities they cannot name one!

Can't name one ? Haha you loser there are dozens but no point wasting time with someone who never be convinced . Europhile


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[i claudius]

Let me first say that as an American I am not as well informed on the subject as many of you are, but..
I am not so sure that the EU does not want a Brexit. IMO the UK's " not all in attitude' has being a hinderance to the adoption of integration policies that can straighten the viability of the european experiment .
I think ,and I am sure many EU leaders do also, that  the EU will much better off with out the UK.
 

I agree .so lets leave the sinking ship asap.
Even Meryll Lynch reckon its doomed

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[sirineou]

1 minute ago, i claudius said:

I agree .so lets leave the sinking ship asap.
Even Meryll Lynch reckon its doomed

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Whether or not it is doomed or not is arguable and I am not knowledgeable enough in the subject to argue one way or another.

The EU was not created fully grown , it has gone through several development stages trying to balance sovereignty and the  integration necessary for its institutions to function.

As with any system ,monitoring of the process requires adjustments to insure that the product is as close to the input as possible.

I am not making any value judgments but, IMO the UK has being less than  willing to cooperate in  the implementation of the necessary adjustments  to  maintain the EU viable, and as such  its exit will be beneficial to the EU and who knows might even be beneficial to the UK, tough i don't believe so.

I am sure EU officials know that, and aside of their public statements privately would welcome a brexit, if not for any other reason , just so that they can move forward .   

 

I am purposely being vague as to not interject arguable issues and further derail this thread. 

 

[Retiredandhappyhere]

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

Whether or not it is doomed or not is arguable and I am not knowledgeable enough in the subject to argue one way or another.

The EU was not created fully grown , it has gone through several development stages trying to balance sovereignty and the  integration necessary for its institutions to function.

As with any system ,monitoring of the process requires adjustments to insure that the product is as close to the input as possible.

I am not making any value judgments but, IMO the UK has being less than  willing to cooperate in  the implementation of the necessary adjustments  to  maintain the EU viable, and as such  its exit will be beneficial to the EU and who knows might even be beneficial to the UK, tough i don't believe so.

I am sure EU officials know that, and aside of their public statements privately would welcome a brexit, if not for any other reason , just so that they can move forward .   

 

I am purposely being vague as to not interject arguable issues and further derail this thread. 

 

The UK does not want to be a part of the proposed UNITED  STATES OF EUROPE....................end of story!    Merkel and Macron think their dreams are coming true but they are surely mistaken, as they seem to forget that 25 other countries also have a say and many do not find the idea attractive.

[baboon]

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

Whether or not it is doomed or not is arguable and I am not knowledgeable enough in the subject to argue one way or another.

 

Nor were majority of the voters in the Brexit referendum. Your posts and opinions are as valid as everyone else's.

[the guest]

6 hours ago, sirineou said:

Let me first say that as an American I am not as well informed on the subject as many of you are, but..

I am not so sure that the EU does not want a Brexit. IMO the UK's " not all in attitude' has being a hinderance to the adoption of integration policies that can straighten the viability of the european experiment .

I think ,and I am sure many EU leaders do also, that  the EU will much better off with out the UK.

 

 

Well it's simple, the uniformed British were told lies about the advantages of leaving the EU, and then it actually happened. The subsequence events that unfolded meant that the penny dropped, and the UK found out how UN-Great it will become without the EU, and so it is trying it's best to grovel back like some demented poodle to try and fix what is now evidently broken.

 

Of course if there is a 'hard' BREXIT (whatever that means) then the country will then face a serious problem, and it's economy will fall like a lead balloon. Of course Trumps visit to France (bypassing the UK) has confirmed that the USA will probably place their bets on EU as opposed to the UK (so much for the so-called special relationship)

 

With Teresa May at the helm, you can guarantee that negotiations will not go according to plan, and the EU most certainly will have the upper hand by demanding the UK complies with the conditions set.

 

Tony Blair's recent announcement will not help matters either, he's a real clown with his own fixed agenda, will not go well with many Europeans nor the British, given he led the country to a war based on lies and deceit, hardly a person with any credibility.

 

The clock is ticking, and the UK better pull their socks up, or else face an even worse fate !

[Khun Han]

11 hours ago, rooster59 said:

"The first serious test of the negotiations will be them agreeing to pay the bill," a senior EU official said

 

Er.....can somebody explain to me how this is negotiation on the EU's part?

 

The EU is still in cloud cuckoo land, thinking that it can extort enough money from the UK to keep it afloat for the next few years .

[melvinmelvin]

yet another brexit thread, and on monday morning!

 

 

[Scott]

55 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

yet another brexit thread, and on monday morning!

 

 

Yes, and unlike us moderators, you are under no obligation to read it or post in it.   It's completely up to you, but if you do, please stay on topic.