A Thank You to Thailand Immigration

[al007]

A lot is written, correctly about problems people have with immigration, and currently there have been some isolated instances of people being refused entry

 

What is often forgotten is the hundreds of thousands who quickly and painlessly pass through the busy airports and other points of entry, in Thailand

 

Further no news is good news and generally people are far more interested in the bad stories than the happy ones, I have yet to hear of a happy normal post going viral

 

I am 72, in my working career travelled extensively Internationally, and used up passports very quickly and had two UK passports, I retired nearly 25 yrs ago and then travelled the globe on my own 60ft twin engined trawler yacht, for nearly 15 yrs

 

Thailand immigration, is sometimes frustrating, but then so is the USA, and UK, sometimes the goal posts move, but again this is not just Thailand

 

In ten years here I have never had any substantial problems with immigration, never had to oil the wheels, unlike many central America countries, in Cuba for instance when clearing in, you have to go through Health, then Agriculture and Fisheries, then Secret Service, who impound all GPSs, the underneath of your vessel is inspected and all these people want cash with no receipts given, and finally Immigration, and their speed is directly related to the amount of money casually left on the table, as one opens one passport

One time on flying into Cuba to arrange boat repairs and spend substantial monies I was refused entry, and held in Immigration detention, where hundreds were being held, some for months, I was put on a plane out the next day. My embassy believe the Cubans thought I was spying as i spent too much time there and my boat had very sophisticated satellite communication and TV systems

I chose not to return, in Thailand I have never heard of immigration departments holding people for months and many hundreds

 

In israel where I have lived and worked, over a lifetime, one time I was taken from my very expensive large apartment, beaten black and blue, by seven police, held in a secret jail, for two weeks with no access to the outside world, or a lawyer or my Embassy, I escaped by attempting suicide, and got to a hospital  telephone and lawyer, I had done nothing wrong I was told it was all a big mistake, my embassy were too busy selling arms to really take up my case, I quietly withdrew, when the opportunity presented itself

 

The above are just a couple of some of my many experiences around the Globe, I will not talk about the stormy night when in international waters off the bottom end of the Bahamas and the Bahamian navy wanted to board and check my British Registered Ship/Yacht, and I quietly refused them, despite them suggesting they might fire, on the grounds they did not have permission from the Her Majesties Government in the UK, a couple of days later when the  Bahamian Naval Captain was consuming Rum in big quantities aboard my vessel, whilst at anchor, we had many laughs

 

Here in KhonKaen we from time to time run into Immigration in restaurants I always buy them a few drinks

 

Do some  these bad things happen to foreigners in Thailand generally no I believe, and I say thank you to immigration for their vigilence

 

Complain about questioning at immigration in Thailand, well compare it to Israel, where even on the way out you can be interrogated for hours

 

I believe strongly we have to be more sympathetic to Immigration here, we are only visitors, we know we have few rights, no one forces us to stay

 

Immigration in any country today has a difficult task, all countries from time to time make mistakes

 

I also feel, rightly or wrongly some  encourage others especially the young to break the  immigration rules, or blatantly flaunt them, I do not feel this is right, and in the interests of those living here on long term licience

 

Some people do not like what I say, so I have effectively added a health warning on my profile

 

I am a very grateful man, happy with a loving wife of ten yrs, ( took me four attempts to find the right one  !  !!   !!!    !!!!  ) I live in a very beautiful house with stunning gardens that we built, also four large Alsations, and two stepsons, and I will do my best and go out of my way to help or assist others.  I do not lend money as I have no licence to do so !

 

And Thank you Thailand  Immigration, my next extension comes shortly and yes despite what I say it still stresses me

 

God Bless

 

And a PS, like many I am sometimes accused of being off topic, on that I should be safe as I started this one !!

 

 

[Lamkyong]

 never had to oil the wheels,   I always buy them a few drinks  mmmmmmmmmmm?                               

[ubonjoe]

Nice biography but not directly visa related. Only comments with no questions or advise.

No need for discussion so this topic is now 

 

Edit: Opened and moved to the "Farang Pub - fun, entertainment and Expat life" forum at the OP's request.

Edited July 18, 2017 by ubonjoe

[al007]

1 hour ago, Lamkyong said:

 never had to oil the wheels,   I always buy them a few drinks  mmmmmmmmmmm?                               

Very good ,very observant , but also check my wording, I did say never had to

 

I accept I choose to, and for me that is acceptable, and what is wrong with keeping people happy, not that you suggest otherwise

 

Also I will add one year we gave some perfume to a lady in immigration after all business was concluded

 

I also from time to time give presents elsewhere like the bank, maybe thats why I never have to que !!

[JackThompson]

That is a good collection of some very interesting experiences. Thank you for sharing them.

I agree that Thai Immigration is by far better than most countries - including my passport-country, the USA (rude, hostile - even to citizens - and at the same time, completely ineffective due to the state of the border, etc), and would seem to be better than many others, according to the stories related here, including your own. 

 

The issue, recently, seems to be the desire of a certain clique within immigration, to impose non-existent rules on travelers, then claim enforcement of real-rules to justify their actions, though often twisting those by either - 1) Refusing entry based on not not having the funds to support the trip, while not allowing those accused to prove otherwise through readily-available means and 2) Refusals based on 'suspicion' of working ('suspicion' not being written into the law), without evidence of this behavior.

 

I believe there are only 2 options, here.  Either:

• Support the rule of law, and literal interpretation thereof.
• Support arbitrary enforcement and/or twisting the law, to achieve an objective they support.

Those in the 2nd category fall in with the "no-state" anarchists, in my view - though many/most undoubtedly consider themselves to be pro "law and order" conservatives.  Even if the objective is considered "good" (a separate question), a slide into the second category undermines everyone's ability to have confidence that "following the rules" will result in a positive outcome.  First they come for the group you don't like, and you applaud - but next, they come for YOU, and there is no "rule of law" to protect you and your interests, any more.  ("You" in the general-context, not personal sense to the OP)  Throughout history, lawless tendencies are either corrected and curtailed, or they destroy nations and cultures.  The nature of 'power' - and the nature of some who are attracted to it (both 'do-good' and 'do-evil' types) - makes this an eternal struggle.

 

As to people held for months by immigration: In Thailand, many have been held for Years for immigration offenses, unable to pay for the cost of transport home, even after their jail-time has cancelled out their fines.  Granted, this differs from those held for long-periods of time to spite their ability to pay for their departure, as may happen elsewhere.  The solution would seem to be for the foreigner's country to provide the funds for their return - then have this person either pay back the money, or do jail-time in their own country, until that jail-time cancels the costs.  Ideally, Thailand would ban people from entry whose countries refuse to do this, as the cost of these people's perpetual-incarceration should not be Thailand's burden to bear - though I understand that due to a potential and significant tourism revenue from nations who refuse, the more likely solution would involve a series of bi-lateral agreements.

 

As to your next extension: Thus far, there has been no 'crackdown' on retirees such as yourself, other than some additional proof of landlords, more photos, the occasional "check-up" visit, etc.  In fact, "agent-supplied" extensions are still available, allowing many to bypass the financial restrictions altogether.  Assuming you are doing the process "by the book" (based on what you wrote, I assume so) - you should have no concern for your upcoming extension.  Only if the rules/polices should change, would there be reason for concern; but, if history is precedent, you would likely be "grandfathered-in" under the current-rules, provided your extensions are contiguous.

Edited July 18, 2017 by JackThompson

[gamini]

Never had a problem with immigration here in the past 35 years living in Thailand. They are much better than most countries. The requirements are easy and let's face it if you retire to a western country you pay full tax on your worldwide earnings and sometimes your pension.

[al007]

Thank you for a long thoughtful reply

 

First things first my marriage extension will be no problem but often they change what they require, which I allow to make me stressful as I try so hard to give them all they want, today I do not take color photocopies, because I know they may be rejected, written no where in the rules, then they have a new form for my wife to fill in and as a non patient man I have to wait while she slowly and diligently does it, I am 100 legal and meet all the requirements

 

My stress levels are self inflicted

 

I changed to marriage extension around 8/9 yrs ago because I believe if ever the rules change materially those who have been on marriage extensions for a long time have a good chance of being grandfathered in, retirement extension, maybe Ok but I consider it not as safe, to divorce couples because of a change of views for most governments is unlikely

 

Yes over the years I have had globally many encounters with immigration

 

20 Yrs ago I returned to Ft Lauderdale from the Bahamas, in my own boat to a dock I rented

 

I come through the Ft Lauderdale Inlet, pass coast guard wave and smile ! go to my dock some 4 miles away, and as required call immigration, I give them the numbers of people, the ships reg etc and am given temporary clearance, I am allowed to go ashore drive and do what ever I wish, it is a friday evening before a holiday weekend, I am given three days to go to immigration and do all the paper work, but because of the holiday weekend, this does not start until tuesday morning

So I do not go on the Tuesday because it will be busy with the backlog

I go early Wed, I know the rules keep you mouth shut, be smart, just politely answer the questions, do not dare smile, I know I am dealing with American immigration, and they have power, many times all ok

This time I am treated like an illegal immigrant, I reply if I was illegal why would I be so stupid to voluntarily come to your office when I am already here and even have a  Mercedes car registered, in my name, parked outside your office needless to say I did not say it was a mercedes,  seven hours it took before I could leave, everything OK, nothing more than I originally started with had changed

I got a man on a bad day

 

Another Time SanDiego similar problems was accused of not calling in, fortunately after 5 hrs I suddenly  thought phone records and got proof from ATT I had made the call

 

I have been criticised on this forum for giving simple advice like withdraw from temp detention while you can to safety and comfort, but when dealing with any country the going gets hard get out while you can, and you very correctly say there are many, we do not hear about being held in immigration detention centres my advice is do not choose that option

 

[seancbk]

Great post, thanks for sharing.

 

[kbb]

Still very happy with the Jomtien office.

 

Did my 90 day report this afternoon. 

Had to wait all of 12 minutes — Which is a bit of a record. 

 

Also dropped off a thank you letter to them in the snail mail at the Post Office just down the block. (Cost me all of 3 baht).

If anyone else out here wants to bother with a real paper letter of thanks — 

Here’s where I sent mine:

 

Chonburi Immigration

75/265 Moo 12, 

Jomtien Soi 5, Nongrpue, Banglamung, ChonBuri, Thailand

20150

Attention: Pol. Col. Chaiyod Varakjunkeat

 

[natway09]

Well stated, sometimes some of these Expats here rave on about the rules like it 's their country.

Having lived & worked here for over 23 years I have been inconvenienced on the odd occasion but

but never harrassed  by Immigration, Labour  or Tax  Depts

 

[Nemesis7]

Nice post.Thanks for sharing.

[Odysseus123]

I have never had a problem with Thai  Immigration.

 

First they were at Phibun Mangsahan,then they went out to Sirinthorn Dam and now,I believe, half of them have relocated to Ubon.

 

I have always been treated with dignity and respect from the day I became ill with the big C  until I fly out tomorrow.

 

I have a photo of some of them gathered under a tree full of orchids...good memories in years to come.

 

I am neither rich or poor-but,in extremis, the Thai gov't and Thai Immigration did help and for that I am duly grateful.

 

No "brown envelopes" have changed hands..no special deals have been offered.On the contrary,as I stagger back to the car (one prosthesis and two walking sticks) someone always tries to help me.

 

Best wishes to Thailand.

 

 

 

 

[al007]

19 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

I have never had a problem with Thai  Immigration.

 

First they were at Phibun Mangsahan,then they went out to Sirinthorn Dam and now,I believe, half of them have relocated to Ubon.

 

I have always been treated with dignity and respect from the day I became ill with the big C  until I fly out tomorrow.

 

I have a photo of some of them gathered under a tree full of orchids...good memories in years to come.

 

I am neither rich or poor-but,in extremis, the Thai gov't and Thai Immigration did help and for that I am duly grateful.

 

No "brown envelopes" have changed hands..no special deals have been offered.On the contrary,as I stagger back to the car (one prosthesis and two walking sticks) someone always tries to help me.

 

Best wishes to Thailand.

 

 

 

 

Some empathy and sympathy, and you complimentary post on Thai Immigration is kind

 

I too have a couple of cancers prostate and colorectal, and it has been with help from TV especially Sheryl that I have moved from thinking the end was coming to being in remission, and so far have avoided some horrific surgery

 

I am neither rich nor poor and have  no insurance, I have been very lucky and had state of the art radiation and chemo at Chulalongkorn BKK

 

I am taking the liberty of sending you my email address and tel no please feel free to use them if you ever want a caring ear to listen to you

 

We do not know what tomorrow brings

 

God Bless you are in my prayers and thoughts, I wish you the best of luck

[Juan B Tong]

Good post.  Great  attitude al007.  My hat is off to you sir!

[robertson468]

Likewise, never had a problem with Immigration in 12 years and was even helped once when I left the Country without getting a Multi Entry Visa and was brought back in on 30 day Visa.  Went to my local Immigration and explained my forgetfulness (stupidity?) and they then re-did my Retirement Visa with no hassle.  Yes I did bribe them.  My Lovely Thai Wife baked a cake and some cookies and we took them along for the Staff to share as a thank you.  Yes 90 day reporting and Visa Renewal are stressful, but as said before, this is largely self inflicted because of all the adverse stories one hears.

[maxcorrigan]

2 hours ago, kbb said:

Still very happy with the Jomtien office.

 

Did my 90 day report this afternoon. 

Had to wait all of 12 minutes — Which is a bit of a record. 

 

Also dropped off a thank you letter to them in the snail mail at the Post Office just down the block. (Cost me all of 3 baht).

If anyone else out here wants to bother with a real paper letter of thanks — 

Here’s where I sent mine:

 

Chonburi Immigration

75/265 Moo 12, 

Jomtien Soi 5, Nongrpue, Banglamung, ChonBuri, Thailand

20150

Attention: Pol. Col. Chaiyod Varakjunkeat

 

I can beat that i did my last 90 day at Jomchien 3 weeks ago thursday afternoon picked up ticket for no 4 desk went straight too it, old blue slip whipped out new one in, and out in 3 minutes, might add the place was nearly empty nobody at the extension desks at all!

Edited July 18, 2017 by maxcorrigan
more info.

[dotpoom]

5 hours ago, al007 said:

Very good ,very observant , but also check my wording, I did say never had to

 

I accept I choose to, and for me that is acceptable, and what is wrong with keeping people happy, not that you suggest otherwise

 

Also I will add one year we gave some perfume to a lady in immigration after all business was concluded

 

I also from time to time give presents elsewhere like the bank, maybe thats why I never have to que !!

I admire a man who says what he means.....and means what he says.....and while I'm at it....."it's nice to be nice".

[thehelmsman]

Next time give that sour looking immigration official at BKK a big hug.

[Putmak]

Great OP al007. Thanks for taking the time to compose.....

 

All the best.....

[Crossy]

A post discussing moderation (and a reply to it) has been removed.

[Redback]

Fascinating read. Thanks guys

[al007]

I started this thread originally since I believe there is a great amount of negativity, about Thailand Immigration in some quarters

 

I have different views; and obviously from some of the replies;  others agree with me

 

In the world generally; it is the negative ones who protest, look at the USA and the protests about Trump, but lets not forget those who like and admire what he is doing, they are not out there protesting and screaming

I personally admire Trump, like me he does not tolerate fools gladly and also speaks up,( if he were on some forums he would be censored, say the CNN forum!) I am not asking for views on this gentleman just highlighting some similarities, between him and myself

 

Even CNN has been exposed for creating fake news, Trump like me uses ingenuity to overcome some of these difficulties

 

There is also a lot of fake news around, and this comes by careful editing of views and facts, and also censorship, does this happen on some forums I believe so, ( just for the record I am not referring to TV) 

 

The power of those who write and edit newspapers and other media content is very powerful, I understand I have used and abused that power

 

At one stage in my varied and colorful career I worked for a man who was very bright and ruthless, we used to say he would sell his grandmother if the price was right, big money around and his eyes started to sparkle light diamonds in the light at night.

I was responsible for writing the Board minutes, I always produced them in draft, and the Chairman and I; then always edited them to show what he wanted, just by careful editing  or missing out a couple of sentences a whole different view could be achieved, we never put anything in, we did not change them,maybe just forgot a couple of bits

 

In the same business we were trying to do something a little grey we went to lawyers for opinions and the first five we tried answered in the wrong way then another answered in a way that suited the purpose, we never told people about the negative ones, but we were protected with a legal opinion in writing on which we relied, not nice but factual

 

The above two were examples of FAKE news some 40 yrs ago

 

I believe by posting positive content and good things of which there are many about Thai immigration, we have a chance to influence the negative brigade, and those who create fake news

 

We are guests living here on short term liciences,we should not forget that, we also have no voting rights, and there is an old saying do not cut off the hand that feeds you

 

I am very interested in positive observations and input on Thailand Immigration, as is obvious I believe they do a very good job, and would like to hear from others with similar positive views

 

I also love the Private Eye publication, and Andrew Drummond, to name but a few

[al007]

Last week did my marriage extension renewal, in KhonKean

 

Quick easy and painless

 

The immigration lady who we know well asked why I do not smile more

 

I replied now you have finished I can, and Thank You

[Wilsonandson]

Immigration being good or no good as you put it is all up to the immigration officer you are dealing with. Some are very understanding and helpful and some are rude, unhelpful, cold hearted, racist, power gone to their head, n@z!s.

If you really want to see what immigration is like then why not pop down to the detention centre in central Bangkok where people of all nationalities are locked up like dog's in cages.

Remember there is always two sides to a coin.

[al007]

4 hours ago, Wilsonandson said:

Immigration being good or no good as you put it is all up to the immigration officer you are dealing with. Some are very understanding and helpful and some are rude, unhelpful, cold hearted, racist, power gone to their head, n@z!s.

If you really want to see what immigration is like then why not pop down to the detention centre in central Bangkok where people of all nationalities are locked up like dog's in cages.

Remember there is always two sides to a coin.

Some eminently good and valid points

 

However some observations, an immigration officers life is not easy he starts sometimes with a person  who is tired and stressed, who could be described as  rude, unhelpful, cold hearted, racist, power gone to their head, n@z!s., these people we meet in all walks of life, immigration officers are only human

 

His /her responsibilities in todays world with the likes of Charlottesville and Barcelona as recent examples are substantial

 

I personally interpret too much animosity towards immigration here in Thailand, and try to engender a more positive attitude

 

I have experienced a lot of life been held in immigration jails in Cuba,( some people had been there ten yrs plus, no charges) terrorist Jails in southern Israel next to Gaza, ( age 65plus!) beaten close to death by Israeli police when naked in my own luxury apartment, as part of a scheme to extort money from me, in both these countries no lawyers or embassies, when I was taken from the Israeli jail (after ten days) to hospital close to death through loss of blood; after three days in the ICU;a nurse got me a phone, and I got a lawyer, in both these countries eventually I was shown to have broken no laws nor done anything wrong

 

I have done many years voluntary work in California high security jails ( I come from UK not USA) and seen and experienced the power mad hitlers in uniform mistreating mentally ill inmates

 

I do not generally love those in uniforms, especially those who abuse that power

 

I very much appreciate your comments on the immigration jail in Bangkok, and hope many read it; I am sure it is awful awful and awful again, however I believe generally those being held have had access to their embassies and lawyers, and may well have committed offenses

 

However when I suggest a young man having immigration problems, at the airport, because he has either not understood or complied with the requirements and I give the advice leave while you can ASAP , regroup in safety outside Thailand I am accused of being callous and unkind, by those who only complain about immigration, yes if wrong immigration must be challenged but be sensible do it from a place of safety, not inside the jaws of the lion

 

Let us not forget the many thousands who pass through immigration with no problems, and Thailand is not alone with queues at airport immigration look at the USA far worse

 

Of course Thailand Immigration is not perfect but at the end of the day I personally believe it does a good job, and should not be lynched by the mob of unhappy and discontented foreigners, and by staying positive we stand a better chance of improving things