France's economy minister tells Britain - 'We want our money back'

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, KNJ said:

What a numpty, you do realise that as a member of the EU the sovereign states are not allowed to negotiate separate trade deals, or did you go to another school when you studied politics........

Well, well! Fancy calling ME a Numpty! Well it's close to open season!

 

I am of course fully aware of the EU rules. My point was that we do not have any experienced trade negotiators.

 

As far as studying politics is concerned, you are obviously new, so I forgive you; I wouldn't stoop to studying something so trivial.

 

I read Joint Honours Applied Physics and Chemistry - Semiconductor physics if you like.  Politics indeed! ?

 

You're not a Paisley Johnstone are you? National Semiconductor?

Edited July 23, 2017 by Grouse

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, KNJ said:

Like the one with Canada that took how long, or the proposed one with Japan which is expected to take at least 10 years to agree

I suspect cross cultural skills are not your strong point, otherwise you would know that Germans go into all the minutiae before agreeing anything. They like to get ALL the details correct before concluding a deal. I could explain doing business in Japan but we would be here for a week!

 

Thinking about it, lack of cross cultural skills is a British weakness. 

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, Thongkorn said:

Britain wants our money back too. Britian protected France by paying into Nato since 1946, France started paying in the 70s.

Paying INTO NATO? I don't think so. The issue is about defence spend. I think you'll find that France's defence spending was adequate even during the period when they were not in NATO (1966 to 2009). At least they haven't sold out to the Americans and still have an INDEPENDENT deterrent (So much for sovereignty!)

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

 

Check the actualite here

 

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS?name_desc=false

 

select France

Edited July 23, 2017 by Grouse

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, oldhippy said:

What have the brits ever done for us?

OK they gave us Monty Python and some other comedians such as Boris, Cameron, Diana, Paisley, etc.

But apart from that what did they ever do for us?

Yeah they gave us the Beatles, Hard Rock and Punk. But what more? Pink Floyd? I suppose so.

And chicken curry, I will admit that.

But what else?

George Best you say? Yep, true, and you could of course also mention Godwin, Rushdie, Dawkins, Hawking, Keynes, and some others.

Gin Tonic? Yes let's not forget Gin Tonic or that Scottish type of Bourbon, I forget the name now.

But I ask you again: What have the brits ever done for us?

 

 

 

Who is us?

[oldhippy]

35 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Who is us?

The Europeans.

In Europe and elsewhere.

 

[Richard W]

On 21/07/2017 at 10:59 AM, 7by7 said:

The Freedom of Movement Directive only applies to EEA nationals and, if they have any, their qualifying non EEA national family members.

Related judgements, included in the UK's EEA Regulation, such as Surinder Singh and Zambrano, allow some close relatives of British citizens to stay or remain.  The non-EEA family members can be expected to get permanent residence cards on completing their 5 years.  Numbers of permanent residence cards issued are currently running at about 10,000 a year (2014: 10,005; 2015: 8,917; 2016: 11,897) - source https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/immigration-statistics-october-to-december-2016/family.  This may includes some repeats - not everyone will naturalise in the first 10 years of permanent residence.

[nontabury]

53 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

The Europeans.

In Europe and elsewhere.

 

I wish you Europeans all the best. I just don't want to be part of your so-called Union.

 

 

[oldhippy]

1 minute ago, nontabury said:

I wish you Europeans all the best. I just don't want to be part of your so-called Union.

 

 

OK, go join the US or whatever, and take the other 50,0000000001% of the Brits with you.

 

[ballpoint]

4 hours ago, oldhippy said:

What have the brits ever done for us?

OK they gave us Monty Python and some other comedians such as Boris, Cameron, Diana, Paisley, etc.

But apart from that what did they ever do for us?

Yeah they gave us the Beatles, Hard Rock and Punk. But what more? Pink Floyd? I suppose so.

And chicken curry, I will admit that.

But what else?

George Best you say? Yep, true, and you could of course also mention Godwin, Rushdie, Dawkins, Hawking, Keynes, and some others.

Gin Tonic? Yes let's not forget Gin Tonic or that Scottish type of Bourbon, I forget the name now.

But I ask you again: What have the brits ever done for us?

 

 

 

Newton, Darwin, Faraday, Maxwell, Eddington, Dirac

Shakespeare, Johnson, Dickens, Orwell, Kipling, Tolkein

Hitchens, Russell, Bacon, Fry

Watt, Stephenson, Brunel, Turing, Babbage, Whittle

The English language

Parliamentary democracy

The Magna Carta

The industrial revolution

Association Football, Rugby, Cricket, Golf

 

Are some of the things they have given me, and no, I'm not British. 

 

 

 

[oldhippy]

1 minute ago, ballpoint said:

Newton, Darwin, Faraday, Maxwell, Eddington, Dirac

Shakespeare, Johnson, Dickens, Orwell, Kipling, Tolkein

Hitchens, Russell, Bacon, Fry

Watt, Stephenson, Brunel, Turing, Babbage, Whittle

The English language

Parliamentary democracy

The Magna Carta

The industrial revolution

Association Football, Rugby, Cricket, Golf

 

Are some of the things they have given me, and no, I'm not British. 

 

 

 

Ah, but you forgot to mention:

The sinking of the Belgrano (that saved us continentals once again from foreign domination).

Engelbert Humperdinck.

Cadbury's "chocolate".

Condoms.

English humour.

 

 

[nontabury]

14 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Ah, but you forgot to mention:

The sinking of the Belgrano (that saved us continentals once again from foreign domination).

Engelbert Humperdinck.

Cadbury's "chocolate".

Condoms.

English humour.

 

 

It would seem to me, that while there is an ever increasing number of Europeans, who would also like to exit the E.U. There are others like you, who want us to remain,or should that be, you want our donations to remain.

[oldhippy]

Just now, nontabury said:

It would seem to me, that while there is an ever increasing number of Europeans, who would also like to exit the E.U. There are others like you, who want us to remain,or should that be, you want our donations to remain.

Where did you get the idea that I, or the majority of Europeans, want the UK to remain?

[vogie]

17 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Where did you get the idea that I, or the majority of Europeans, want the UK to remain?

If you're not bothered, why do you keep going on about it, or are you afraid your countrys contributions will go have to rise condiderably, if so I can understand your bitterness.

[oldhippy]

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

If you're not bothered, why do you keep going on about it, or are you afraid your countrys contributions will go have to rise condiderably, if so I can understand your bitterness.

Brexit fills me with joy, not bitterness.

Brexit might be the new start of The United States of Europe.

PS. Lighten up. Googling humour may help - next try to move on to sarcasm.

 

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Brexit fills me with joy, not bitterness.

Brexit might be the new start of The United States of Europe.

PS. Lighten up. Googling humour may help - next try to move on to sarcasm.

 

You first

[nauseus]

12 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Brexit fills me with joy, not bitterness.

Brexit might be the new start of The United States of Europe.

PS. Lighten up. Googling humour may help - next try to move on to sarcasm.

 

Brexit fills me with joy, not bitterness - surprised you have room for anything else.

Brexit might be the new start of The United States of Europe - underway 50 years ago.

PS. Lighten up. Googling humour may help - next try to move on to sarcasm. - don't worry you provide us a lot of humour.

[oldhippy]

13 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Brexit fills me with joy, not bitterness - surprised you have room for anything else.

Brexit might be the new start of The United States of Europe - underway 50 years ago.

PS. Lighten up. Googling humour may help - next try to move on to sarcasm. - don't worry you provide us a lot of humour.

>>>>>> you provide us a lot of humour. <<<<<<

 

 

I try, but sometimes I think that I am wasting my energy.

 

[chrissables]

On 7/22/2017 at 7:33 PM, sawadee1947 said:

This is one of the most funny comments.

I hope you are joking only.

To make it easy for simple minds: if you rent a house for the next 30 years you can move out today and you don't need to pay the rent further more?

Or if you are obliged by binding contract to pay a certain amount of money every year you can break the contract at any time and walk home?

Enjoy one more beer

Show me the contract. The fact is what it is, there is no legal contract for us to pay after the leave date.

Telling me i am wrong, does not in fact make me wrong.

 

Your half witted analogy of renting a house is quite frankly pathetic.

 

The UK can of course agree to some payments, and may actually do. But legally bound we are not.  

[Scott]

An inflammatory post and reply has been removed.   Continue at your own peril.  

[Dave67]

2 hours ago, chrissables said:

Show me the contract. The fact is what it is, there is no legal contract for us to pay after the leave date.

Telling me i am wrong, does not in fact make me wrong.

 

Your half witted analogy of renting a house is quite frankly pathetic.

 

The UK can of course agree to some payments, and may actually do. But legally bound we are not.  

I think the payment is a choice of making life easy after Brexit or not

[chrissables]

Just now, Dave67 said:

I think the payment is a choice of making life easy after Brexit or not

The strange thing is, we can walk away and pay nothing. So you would think the EU would approach things in a more conciliatory way.

 

Also, where are they getting the figures from? As the EU government has not has its accounts signed off in years, how are they quantifying the amounts?

[Dave67]

Just now, chrissables said:

The strange thing is, we can walk away and pay nothing. So you would think the EU would approach things in a more conciliatory way.

 

Also, where are they getting the figures from? As the EU government has not has its accounts signed off in years, how are they quantifying the amounts?

It's a demonstration of the punishment given to those who choose to leave the EU imo

[KNJ]

16 hours ago, Grouse said:

I suspect cross cultural skills are not your strong point, otherwise you would know that Germans go into all the minutiae before agreeing anything. They like to get ALL the details correct before concluding a deal. I could explain doing business in Japan but we would be here for a week!

 

Thinking about it, lack of cross cultural skills is a British weakness. 

Well having worked some thirty years in Germany, many other European countries,  Thailand, India, Malaysia, Taiwan, Vietnam, Indonesia, Bangladesh as well as 4 years in Japan ( arrived with a suitcase and left with a wife ) and been responsible for contracts in excess of 1 B Euro annually , I can honestly say you are talking out of your bottom.

 

Oh and if it helps I have a certificate for swimming a width and a Blue Peter badge ( bet they never gave you that at University)

[rockingrobin]

3 hours ago, chrissables said:

Show me the contract. The fact is what it is, there is no legal contract for us to pay after the leave date.

Telling me i am wrong, does not in fact make me wrong.

 

Your half witted analogy of renting a house is quite frankly pathetic.

 

The UK can of course agree to some payments, and may actually do. But legally bound we are not.  

What about international law

Vienna convention on treaties

[KNJ]

16 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

What about international law

Vienna convention on treaties

The Vienna Convention to which France is a non signatory?

[rockingrobin]

21 minutes ago, KNJ said:

The Vienna Convention to which France is a non signatory?

France ratified the convention , with reservations in 1970.

However we are not dealing with a UK - France bilaterall treaty, therefore it becomes irrelevant

[rockingrobin]

42 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

France ratified the convention , with reservations in 1970.

However we are not dealing with a UK - France bilaterall treaty, therefore it becomes irrelevant

Correction

France are not party to the Convention on law of treaties

 

Apologies

[chrissables]

2 hours ago, rockingrobin said:

What about international law

Vienna convention on treaties

The point is, the UK have not at anytime agreed (legally) to pay if they leave. It seems the EU was so arrogant in thinking nobody would ever leave, they did not allow for it in law.

 

That of course does not mean UK will not pay, just they can't be forced to pay. That is what the negotiations are about.  

[rockingrobin]

11 minutes ago, chrissables said:

The point is, the UK have not at anytime agreed (legally) to pay if they leave. It seems the EU was so arrogant in thinking nobody would ever leave, they did not allow for it in law.

 

That of course does not mean UK will not pay, just they can't be forced to pay. That is what the negotiations are about.  

Its customary international law

The ending of a treaty releases any future obligations, but not ones that aise while the treaty is in force

Edited July 24, 2017 by rockingrobin

[Khun Han]

2 hours ago, rockingrobin said:

What about international law

Vienna convention on treaties

 

What treaty? Their exit bill is based mostly on estimated future amounts for years beyond the 2020 date for which we signed up to them.