Supreme Court Jails Redshirt Leader Jatuporn For Defaming Former PM

[bangrak]

58 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

If the chronological events to be respected, shouldn't the court be ruling on the 2008 government house blockade charges by the PAD before the charge against Jatuporn. 

How many did they (incite to) kill? 

[metisdead]

An off topic grammar police troll post has been removed as well as a reply.  

 

A post containing off topic baiting comments has been removed as the bait was taken, the replies were removed as well.

Edited July 20, 2017 by metisdead

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, bangrak said:

How many did they (incite to) kill? 

So court cases are chronologically arrange by the number of incitement. Credit you for your attempt on humour. 

[bangrak]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

So court cases are chronologically arrange by the number of incitement. Credit you for your attempt on humour. 

When killing people, and inciting people to, is humour for you, it explains a thing or two about your(?) opinions. Anyway, the game is all about denying, avoiding, bending, etc., hmm, isn't it, well, sorry, not for me... The occupation of Government House AND of the airports by the PAD I do consider as breaking the Law , and should indeed be sanctioned by the Court! But putting these as you do on a same level as criminal (terrorist) acts, like the ones perpetrated by red-shirts (and men-in-black?), defending the 'leaders' à-la Jatuporn who incited to crime, is quite a bit of a stretch, wouldn't (even) you say? 

[JAG]

When killing people, and inciting people to, is humour for you, it explains a thing or two about your(?) opinions. Anyway, the game is all about denying, avoiding, bending, etc., hmm, isn't it, well, sorry, not for me... The occupation of Government House AND of the airports by the PAD I do consider as breaking the Law , and should indeed be sanctioned by the Court! But putting these as you do on a same level as criminal (terrorist) acts, like the ones perpetrated by red-shirts (and men-in-black?), defending the 'leaders' à-la Jatuporn who incited to crime, is quite a bit of a stretch, wouldn't (even) you say? 

So who did by far the greater amount of killing then?

As for as the occupation of Government House and the Airports, you know full well that there will be no "sanctions by the courts".

[Pridilives]

23 minutes ago, bangrak said:

When killing people, and inciting people to, is humour for you, it explains a thing or two about your(?) opinions. Anyway, the game is all about denying, avoiding, bending, etc., hmm, isn't it, well, sorry, not for me... The occupation of Government House AND of the airports by the PAD I do consider as breaking the Law , and should indeed be sanctioned by the Court! But putting these as you do on a same level as criminal (terrorist) acts, like the ones perpetrated by red-shirts (and men-in-black?), defending the 'leaders' à-la Jatuporn who incited to crime, is quite a bit of a stretch, wouldn't (even) you say? 

Very one side view of history you have. Army shoot kill red but never shoot kill yellow that is why different in 2010. Thai people fight for be free country and next election you gonna see Thai people win and people think like you lose

[bangrak]

3 hours ago, Pridilives said:

If me I do same. What explain why soldier still sniper safe zone and kill nurse and other innocent. You hate too much make you not think same good honest person. 

So, 'Artisi' is not a 'good honest person', but you are one 'Pridilives'?

What 'safe zone' could there have been in the Wat (indeed in opposition with what have been previously declared), after armed red-shirts fled to it, went hiding among unarmed fellow red-shirts, after shots were fired at the soldiers from the Wat? Soldiers should not have returned fire, is it?

And please don't use the word 'sniper' when you don't know the meaning of it. Were there army snipers on the BTS ramp? Maybe, just a few then, and they would not have shot un-armed persons, they shoot better than that.

Were there soldiers with some magnifying scope or other accuracy increasing aiming device on their, normal, light army rifles? Yes, quite some I'd think.

But probably most soldiers there just had their regular M16 or Tavor.

What should they have done? Let those armed red-shirts shoot, injure, kill them, and later go on spreading blood over Bkk and elsewhere, like they proved to do before? Because those low-life cowards were using un-armed co-red-shirts as human shields?

Ever heard about 'collateral damage'? Well, that's what the persons injured or killed at the Wat became, NOT by the choice of the soldiers, but because of how their 'brothers' armed red-shirts abused them, to protect their own skin, while going on shooting like madmen! These armed red-shirt-'guards' were responsible for all the inhumane suffering at the Wat.

And the whole story, from the start in 2009, including this sad event, was integral part of the strategy from'the master', for his own profit, to recuperate money and get back in power, pure madness it was from that 'man'!

[Pridilives]

16 minutes ago, bangrak said:

So, 'Artisi' is not a 'good honest person', but you are one 'Pridilives'?

What 'safe zone' could there have been in the Wat (indeed in opposition with what have been previously declared), after armed red-shirts fled to it, went hiding among unarmed fellow red-shirts, after shots were fired at the soldiers from the Wat? Soldiers should not have returned fire, is it?

And please don't use the word 'sniper' when you don't know the meaning of it. Were there army snipers on the BTS ramp? Maybe, just a few then, and they would not have shot un-armed persons, they shoot better than that.

Were there soldiers with some magnifying scope or other accuracy increasing aiming device on their, normal, light army rifles? Yes, quite some I'd think.

But probably most soldiers there just had their regular M16 or Tavor.

What should they have done? Let those armed red-shirts shoot, injure, kill them, and later go on spreading blood over Bkk and elsewhere, like they proved to do before? Because those low-life cowards were using un-armed co-red-shirts as human shields?

Ever heard about 'collateral damage'? Well, that's what the persons injured or killed at the Wat became, NOT by the choice of the soldiers, but because of how their 'brothers' armed red-shirts abused them, to protect their own skin, while going on shooting like madmen! These armed red-shirt-'guards' were responsible for all the inhumane suffering at the Wat.

And the whole story, from the start in 2009, including this sad event, was integral part of the strategy from'the master', for his own profit, to recuperate money and get back in power, pure madness it was from that 'man'!

Abhisit declare temple as safe zone. That what safe zone. Army shoot over 100,000 normal bullet and 3,000 7.62mm high velocity sniper bullet for SG-3000 sniper gun. That what Sniper. Can confirm from army own ammunition count. You have too much thanksin  on brain. All this sad event from army steal power from elect government so army can keep steal money for self. Don't worry bangrak good honest people win next election and people believe same you just be history.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Pridilives

[robblok]

30 minutes ago, JAG said:

So who did by far the greater amount of killing then?

As for as the occupation of Government House and the Airports, you know full well that there will be no "sanctions by the courts".

Easy.. the redshirts did far more killing.. but then again you want to include the army with the yellow shirts. While they are 2 different entities. 

So far people with yellow sympathies have not bombed hospitals. 

[Pridilives]

4 minutes ago, robblok said:

Easy.. the redshirts did far more killing.. but then again you want to include the army with the yellow shirts. While they are 2 different entities. 

So far people with yellow sympathies have not bombed hospitals. 

How come by far most people die are red shirt.

[gamini]

7 hours ago, Pridilives said:

So you like bad law if use for someone you not like. This is very bad for believe this way. Better same law for everybody and if law not good for you should not want this law for anybody even enemy. Why you let hate let you make bad choice

For gods sake! He  is is still on bail for terrorism and a whole lot of other charges. He should have been jailed a long time ago. In any other country he would have been jailed for contemp of court when he threatened judges.

[bangrak]

18 minutes ago, JAG said:

So who did by far the greater amount of killing then?

As for as the occupation of Government House and the Airports, you know full well that there will be no "sanctions by the courts".

'So who did by far the greater amount of killing then?' Well, JAG, I, as an honest person cannot give you a clear answer on the question.

But let me try my best, restricting myself to the deadly casualties here then. I put some time into it, as I want you and me to be clear about this.

One needs at first to divide those who lost their life. First of all: how many soldiers/officers died, how many red-shirts, whereof how many armed ones ( IMO a lit molotov cocktail, a machete, a bamboo spear, etc. are weapons), how many non-red-shirt unarmed Thai persons, how many of the same from another nationality.

There were some accidental deaths. Well, accident, considering the mayhem it was there, is someone falling under a truck or being hit by a car, or making a bad fall still 'an accident'.

In the sense that, when the violent mob of red-shirts would not have occupied part of the center of the capital, this would all not have happened. Then it was no accident, and the red-shirts, their leaders, ...and their 'master', are responsible for that.

By the way, allow me to say, when it would not have been because Thaksin, his money, and his (and the Shins') power, nothing of this would have happened, and all those people would still be alive and well (outside of other, real, accidents since).

But back on track.

You have the reporters and photographers, the ones 'specialised' in war-reporting (it was a war-zone there no doubt), who put their life on the table for a 'good shot' (I mean picture), hot interview (not in an arsoned place), who are a special category of people, living for 'the kick', the adrenaline in it. They're part of a same 'congregation', worldwide, they know the risks. But who killed the (happily) few? There I'm rather 50/50, not intended from the-scared-little-recruit-with-his-M16 side (what does with low visibility someone wielding, aiming a large black 'thing'- a camera- around, some big, lethal weapon, no?).

Then you have the 'passers-by', the people from outside town, or from the city, who came 'to have a look', you know how Thais are, and, mostly due to pure sillyness (like not paying attention to the soldiers, well propagated, warnings), found themselves at the wrong place in the wrong time. Were they shot by soldiers, by armed red-guards, or by men-in-black, hard to say, the more so most used the same kind of rifles and ammo (5.56NATO). Was it in an area declared 'life fire zone' (clearly marked!) by the army, the highest probability is: killed by army fire. Was it close to the main red thugs' fortification/'podium, say 50/50, though more probably armed red-guards.

Did the killing happen in a 'normal' (well, as far there was anything normal in central Bkk at the time) urban zone, I'd split it in 1/3s: army, armed red-guards, men-in-black ('usefull shots' to impress the media, especially the international ones, and create more mayhem).

So, dear JAG, IMO there is, outside of propaganda talk,  gullible persons' personal'(?!?) 'opinion'(?!?), flaming idealists' diatribes, there is a lot to think, and to say about all those human beings, who should not have died, was it not that...

(I'd like to write about a certain Seh Daeng too, yes the Maj Gen, as he played a very important role in this whole bloody story, especially the lethal part of it, till, he himself was killed, 'eliminated', by ... Another time, maybe)  

 

[bangrak]

2 hours ago, Pridilives said:

Abhisit declare temple as safe zone. That what safe zone. Army shoot over 100,000 normal bullet and 3,000 7.62mm high velocity sniper bullet for SG-3000 sniper gun. That what Sniper. Can confirm from army own ammunition count. You have too much thanksin  on brain. All this sad event from army steal power from elect government so army can keep steal money for self. Don't worry bangrak good honest people win next election and people believe same you just be history.

Dear Pridilives, do you have a problem to understand that when shots were fired from the Wat, automatically, immediately, the Wat seized to be a 'safe zone' (that it had been declared to be previously, indeed)? Why don't you blame the lunatic armed red-shirts for using their weapons from the temple grounds while being among their un-armed red-shirt comrades...?

And, please, can you keep the propaganda blah-blah for the ones sharing your 'views'? 'Good honest people' = me/we/us = those who vote for PTP/UDD/Shins/Thaksin = (fairly, honestly?) elected goverment (which can do anything it wants?), against: you and people believe like you (bad!!!) just be history + very bad army steal power and money for itself (the guys you'd vote for wouldn't do that...). BUT, you just forgot a tiny little detail, well sort of: the about 60% of the Thai population, which probably don't think like me, and for sure wouldn't vote for the Shins' machine (including all the ones from N., N-E and E., when they would have an individual freedom of choice, what they don't)...

Now to the 'technical bits', you write '3,000 7.62mm high velocity sniper bullet' (you meant 'rounds', never mind), well, for your info, all 7.62NATO rounds are considered high-speed (N.B.: 7.62 x 51, the previous 'standard' NATO caliber, now only in heavy machineguns, like the Browning .30 from the RTA,  replaced by the 5.56, now in a 3rd evolution), I'm an old guy, that's what we used in the 70s (though nothing ado with standard ammo), like in my FN LAR Sniper, but bloody absolete by now, replaced by much more powerfull and accurate stuff, does the RTA really still use it?

As you know that much, how many Sig Sauer SSG-3000 sniper rifles does the Thai military have in dotation? How many, no doubt, trained sniper teams (real snipers always go in pairs: the spotter and the shooter) does the RTA have. How many of were engaged into action (rotation) during the length of the 2010 violent red insurrection?

You know, though the 7.62mm caliber is the same, the casing, and the bullet used in AK-47s (7.62 x 39), ...like some red-shirt guards openly carried (and used?) are quite different, and identifiable, also in the wounds they inflict (no ballistic course here), oh, and there's a(n old)(good) sniper rifle in the caliber too, the Dragounov, maybe(?) some sniper-from-abroad-on-'vacation'-in-Bkk (from Cambodia?) loved to shoot...?

So, outside of 3,000 (standard) 7.62NATO rounds having, according to your intel, been spent in Bkk, do you have details about the numbers of persons having been, confirmed, hit with THAT specific ammunition during the violent uprise, NOT of the 7.62 x 39 ('Russian') caliber?

But maybe I could have saved myself a lot of time asking you whether it is true, or not, that most casualties of the 2010 violent occupation were, according to the reporting, and propaganda,  at the time, caused by 'high speed' (blah-blah, we agree on that now?)... 5.56NATO ammunition (5.56 x 45), like used in REGULAR (no blah-blah 'sniper') M16 and Tavor light army rifles standard in the RTA, ...and seen carried (and used?) by red-shirt guards, especially the M16, the few Tavor stolen from soldiers rather a trophy... You consider as 'normal' ammunition, 100,000 of it you write (probably including some 12Gauge slugs and 9 x 19 ...NATO pistol and light machinegun ammo).

OK, you seem to be Thai, to have quite some intel about the matter, then, now, 'shoot': give us some true, undisputable FACTS, like about the persons who died, and what proved(!) to have killed them! Give us 'the real thing'!  

Edited July 20, 2017 by bangrak

[TheLobster]

Calm down, I'm struggling to understand the pigeon English.

[Kieranmc]

Defamation cases are a civil matter now not criminal. He should not be doing jail time. 

[candide]

6 hours ago, bangrak said:

So, 'Artisi' is not a 'good honest person', but you are one 'Pridilives'?

What 'safe zone' could there have been in the Wat (indeed in opposition with what have been previously declared), after armed red-shirts fled to it, went hiding among unarmed fellow red-shirts, after shots were fired at the soldiers from the Wat? Soldiers should not have returned fire, is it?

And please don't use the word 'sniper' when you don't know the meaning of it. Were there army snipers on the BTS ramp? Maybe, just a few then, and they would not have shot un-armed persons, they shoot better than that.

Were there soldiers with some magnifying scope or other accuracy increasing aiming device on their, normal, light army rifles? Yes, quite some I'd think.

But probably most soldiers there just had their regular M16 or Tavor.

What should they have done? Let those armed red-shirts shoot, injure, kill them, and later go on spreading blood over Bkk and elsewhere, like they proved to do before? Because those low-life cowards were using un-armed co-red-shirts as human shields?

Ever heard about 'collateral damage'? Well, that's what the persons injured or killed at the Wat became, NOT by the choice of the soldiers, but because of how their 'brothers' armed red-shirts abused them, to protect their own skin, while going on shooting like madmen! These armed red-shirt-'guards' were responsible for all the inhumane suffering at the Wat.

And the whole story, from the start in 2009, including this sad event, was integral part of the strategy from'the master', for his own profit, to recuperate money and get back in power, pure madness it was from that 'man'!

When a post is much longer than other posts, it doesn't necessarily make it more convincing......

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Military-gunmen-shot-6-unarmed-people-dead-in-Wat--30212069.html

[webfact]

Jatuporn jailed in libel case

By THE NATION

 

 

Red-shirt leader sentenced for defaming Abhisit in speech made in 2009.

BANGKOK: -- JATUPORN PROMPAN, a key Pheu Thai Party politician and leader of the red-shirt political movement, was yesterday sentenced to a year in jail for defaming former prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva in a speech he made in 2009.

 

The Supreme Court imprisoned him without suspension and ordered him to publish an apology to Abhisit in newspapers for seven days. 

 

The country’s highest court overruled two lower courts that had found him not guilty. While addressing about 10,000 red-shirt protesters at Phai Khiew Temple in Bangkok’s Don Muang district in May 2009, Jatuporn accused Abhisit of being a “tyrant who has his hands stained with blood for ordering the killing of people”. 

 

Jatuporn was referring to a claim by red-shirt leaders that a number of anti-government protesters were killed during their confrontation with security forces on a Bangkok street. However, authorities at that time during the tenure of the Abhisit administration maintained that no one was killed.

 

Abhisit, the leader of the Democrat Party, filed his defamation case against Jatuporn, chairman of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD), in June 2009. 

 

The Criminal Court had rejected Abhisit’s case in December 2012, saying that Jatuporn’s comment was tantamount to political retaliation in a democratic system. 

 

Abhisit later took his case to the Appeal Court, which in 2014 upheld the lower court’s ruling and rejected his plea on grounds that Jatuporn had expressed an opinion. 

 

The Supreme Court yesterday said Jatuporn, as a leader of the red shirt group, was involved in a bitter political conflict with Abhisit. Jatuporn’s allegation against the Abhisit in his speech certainly had an impact on the Abhisit, the court ruled.

 

The court found that the Jatuporn did not make his opinion honestly or criticise the plaintiff in a fair manner. His action was rather libelous.

 

In addition to the jail term, Jatuporn was ordered to have his written apology published in the Daily News, Thai Post and Matichon newspapers for seven days at his own cost.

 

The firebrand red-shirt leader had been detained at Bangkok Remand Prison since the Criminal Court in October last year ordered his bail to be revoked. Jatuporn, along with 18 other red-shirt leaders, was charged in 2010 with terrorism. 

 

A court granted him temporary release on the condition that he did not insult or defame others or stoke unrest. But last year, the court ruled that he had violated bail conditions by using “harsh words against others” while talking politics on television. 

 

In January, Jatuporn was granted bail again and released from detention due to a health problem and his “show of remorse” while behind bars, the court said. He was released on Bt600,000 bail on conditions that he does not leave the country without court permission and does not to break his original bail conditions again.

 

Corrections Department director-general Kobkiat Kasiwiwat said yesterday that Jatuporn would get good care while in detention and would be entitled to medical treatment if he suffered a kidney infection again. “When inmates get ill, they are treated by the medical team under the human rights principle,” he said. The agency will check Jatuporn’s health and produce a criminal record before sending him to jail, Kobkiat said.

 

He said if the red-shirt leader was sick, the department would ensure he gets medical care but would not take him to an outside hospital.

 

Jatuporn, 51, was born in Surat Thani. At the age of 12, following his father’s death, he moved to Bangkok’s Wat Bowonniwet Temple, where his brother was then a Buddhist monk. He graduated with a bachelor’s degree in political science from Ramkhamhaeng University.

 

In 1996, Jatuporn joined the Palang Dharma Party, which was then led by popular politician Chamlong Srimuang. But he defected to Thaksin Shinawatra’s new Thai Rak Thai Party two years later. 

 

After Thai Rak Thai was dissolved by a court order for vote buying, Jatuporn joined its reincarnation, the People’s Power Party. After it was dissolved, he moved to the Pheu Thai Party, which is considered another proxy of Thaksin.

 

Jatuporn was elected an MP and became a core leader of the pro-Thaksin UDD. In 2010, shortly after a court ordered Bt36 billion of Thaksin’s assets to be seized, Jatuporn joined other top UDD figures in leading a massive red-shirt protest that seized control of downtown Bangkok and culminated in violence in April and May. The 2010 unrest left more than 90 people dead and some 2,000 others injured. In March 2014, Jatuporn was named the top UDD leader, replacing Thida Thavornseth.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/politics/30321333

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2017-07-21

[JAG]

I note the concern about his health, and particularly his vulnerability to kidney infections.

They can come on very suddenly...

[Pridilives]

11 hours ago, bangrak said:

'So who did by far the greater amount of killing then?' Well, JAG, I, as an honest person cannot give you a clear answer on the question.

But let me try my best, restricting myself to the deadly casualties here then. I put some time into it, as I want you and me to be clear about this.

One needs at first to divide those who lost their life. First of all: how many soldiers/officers died, how many red-shirts, whereof how many armed ones ( IMO a lit molotov cocktail, a machete, a bamboo spear, etc. are weapons), how many non-red-shirt unarmed Thai persons, how many of the same from another nationality.

There were some accidental deaths. Well, accident, considering the mayhem it was there, is someone falling under a truck or being hit by a car, or making a bad fall still 'an accident'.

In the sense that, when the violent mob of red-shirts would not have occupied part of the center of the capital, this would all not have happened. Then it was no accident, and the red-shirts, their leaders, ...and their 'master', are responsible for that.

By the way, allow me to say, when it would not have been because Thaksin, his money, and his (and the Shins') power, nothing of this would have happened, and all those people would still be alive and well (outside of other, real, accidents since).

But back on track.

You have the reporters and photographers, the ones 'specialised' in war-reporting (it was a war-zone there no doubt), who put their life on the table for a 'good shot' (I mean picture), hot interview (not in an arsoned place), who are a special category of people, living for 'the kick', the adrenaline in it. They're part of a same 'congregation', worldwide, they know the risks. But who killed the (happily) few? There I'm rather 50/50, not intended from the-scared-little-recruit-with-his-M16 side (what does with low visibility someone wielding, aiming a large black 'thing'- a camera- around, some big, lethal weapon, no?).

Then you have the 'passers-by', the people from outside town, or from the city, who came 'to have a look', you know how Thais are, and, mostly due to pure sillyness (like not paying attention to the soldiers, well propagated, warnings), found themselves at the wrong place in the wrong time. Were they shot by soldiers, by armed red-guards, or by men-in-black, hard to say, the more so most used the same kind of rifles and ammo (5.56NATO). Was it in an area declared 'life fire zone' (clearly marked!) by the army, the highest probability is: killed by army fire. Was it close to the main red thugs' fortification/'podium, say 50/50, though more probably armed red-guards.

Did the killing happen in a 'normal' (well, as far there was anything normal in central Bkk at the time) urban zone, I'd split it in 1/3s: army, armed red-guards, men-in-black ('usefull shots' to impress the media, especially the international ones, and create more mayhem).

So, dear JAG, IMO there is, outside of propaganda talk,  gullible persons' personal'(?!?) 'opinion'(?!?), flaming idealists' diatribes, there is a lot to think, and to say about all those human beings, who should not have died, was it not that...

(I'd like to write about a certain Seh Daeng too, yes the Maj Gen, as he played a very important role in this whole bloody story, especially the lethal part of it, till, he himself was killed, 'eliminated', by ... Another time, maybe)  

 

 

No need guess anything. no need be unsure anything. just read hrw report.

hrw report show good and bad for both side. hrw report best information for make informed decision.

everything you complain red shirt is result asymmetrical fight. 15 million poor farmer fight with national army. how poor people can fight national army.

Thailand's 2010 Red Shirt Protests and the Government Crackdown ...

 

This whole story about people not accept election. red play fair and vote and win election but get chuck out too many time. what choice red have but copy tactic from yellow.

Now i not talk off topic but give example. Palestine use terrorism. This is crime against humanity. But this doesn't mean that what israel do to palestine is good thing. It is crime too, In fact israel is commit first crime and palestine second crime. never get peace from fight second crime. If want peace just come from stop first crime. In thailand first crime about not accept election. if want to stop second, third, fourth crime have to fight against first crime. Only way for peace.

 

every thai know thaksin not perfect. but every thai know can argue ptp. look what too different about rail project. when yingluck try rail project too many people argue, too many article in paper argue. when junta do rail project no one can talk they just do. even thai people want yingluck go away now accept better have yingluck because can argue and sometimes can change. with junta never can argue never can change.

 

so real question you must ask bangrak is why you just see red do wrong thing. why cannot be honest about fact. if every thai accept election no thai die red or yellow or innocent. Just one side not accept election. just one side do first crime.

[aslimversgwm]

8 minutes ago, Pridilives said:

No need guess anything. no need be unsure anything. just read hrw report.

hrw report show good and bad for both side. hrw report best information for make informed decision.

everything you complain red shirt is result asymmetrical fight. 15 million poor farmer fight with national army. how poor people can fight national army.

Thailand's 2010 Red Shirt Protests and the Government Crackdown ...

 

This whole story about people not accept election. red play fair and vote and win election but get chuck out too many time. what choice red have but copy tactic from yellow.

Now i not talk off topic but give example. Palestine use terrorism. This is crime against humanity. But this doesn't mean that what israel do to palestine is good thing. It is crime too, In fact israel is commit first crime and palestine second crime. never get peace from fight second crime. If want peace just come from stop first crime. In thailand first crime about not accept election. if want to stop second, third, fourth crime have to fight against first crime. Only way for peace.

 

every thai know thaksin not perfect. but every thai know can argue ptp. look what too different about rail project. when yingluck try rail project too many people argue, too many article in paper argue. when junta do rail project no one can talk they just do. even thai people want yingluck go away now accept better have yingluck because can argue and sometimes can change. with junta never can argue never can change.

 

so real question you must ask bangrak is why you just see red do wrong thing. why cannot be honest about fact. if every thai accept election no thai die red or yellow or innocent. Just one side not accept election. just one side do first crime.

As a Caucasian farang I wish I could express my opinion as well in Thai as you do in English - thank you for making such a thoughtful response in English. Good on you sir!

[brucec64]

You should know better.... you cannot 'like' laws which you really hate just because they get one person you don't like. Either these laws are Ethical, Fair and True or they are not!

I agree. That attitude is as corrupt as the junta that he so fervently support.

Sent from my SM-J710F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Eric Loh]

16 minutes ago, aslimversgwm said:

As a Caucasian farang I wish I could express my opinion as well in Thai as you do in English - thank you for making such a thoughtful response in English. Good on you sir!

You don't need good English to say something straight from his heart. Those who criticize others on proper English are just trying to side track and avoid the real issue of political prejudice of the minority elites and suppression of the people choice for their leaders; not leaders that snatch power with guns.  

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

You don't need good English to say something straight from his heart. Those who criticize others on proper English are just trying to side track and avoid the real issue of political prejudice of the minority elites and suppression of the people choice for their leaders; not leaders that snatch power with guns.  

 

Who actually choose Jatoporn as a "leader" of the UDD and a party list MP?

 

Wasn't the people.

[Baerboxer]

2 hours ago, Pridilives said:

No need guess anything. no need be unsure anything. just read hrw report.

hrw report show good and bad for both side. hrw report best information for make informed decision.

everything you complain red shirt is result asymmetrical fight. 15 million poor farmer fight with national army. how poor people can fight national army.

Thailand's 2010 Red Shirt Protests and the Government Crackdown ...

 

This whole story about people not accept election. red play fair and vote and win election but get chuck out too many time. what choice red have but copy tactic from yellow.

Now i not talk off topic but give example. Palestine use terrorism. This is crime against humanity. But this doesn't mean that what israel do to palestine is good thing. It is crime too, In fact israel is commit first crime and palestine second crime. never get peace from fight second crime. If want peace just come from stop first crime. In thailand first crime about not accept election. if want to stop second, third, fourth crime have to fight against first crime. Only way for peace.

 

every thai know thaksin not perfect. but every thai know can argue ptp. look what too different about rail project. when yingluck try rail project too many people argue, too many article in paper argue. when junta do rail project no one can talk they just do. even thai people want yingluck go away now accept better have yingluck because can argue and sometimes can change. with junta never can argue never can change.

 

so real question you must ask bangrak is why you just see red do wrong thing. why cannot be honest about fact. if every thai accept election no thai die red or yellow or innocent. Just one side not accept election. just one side do first crime.

 

Two wrongs certainly don't make a right - never ever.

 

But do you accept that the political protests at that time became violent? That unelected red shirt leaders were inciting violence, and have pending court cases, and that there were well armed "men in black" supporting the protests and shooting? 

 

That does not of course justify the indiscriminate shooting or targeting of bystanders by soldiers, police, or any one else armed and shooting at people.

 

Events like this never really get fully investigated and justice is rarely served, even in countries with mature robust justice systems, like the UK which still has cases from the 60's and 70's. And be honest, do you think Thailand enjoys a mature, robust justice system including investigatory and enforcement agencies?

 

Unfortunately, as we see time and time again, politicians when elected don't always respect the laws, act ethically and serve the electorate. Not an issue unique to any country - just look at Venezuela, Egypt, Libya, Ukraine, many African countries etc etc. 

 

Democracy is much more than just an election. Winning an election does not mean you are above the law and can do as you please. Democracy is fragile and needs constant nurturing; is easy to loose and once lost very very difficult to get back.

 

 

 

[Baerboxer]

9 hours ago, Kieranmc said:

Defamation cases are a civil matter now not criminal. He should not be doing jail time. 

 

Not in Thailand sport. 

[Baerboxer]

15 hours ago, Pridilives said:

Very one side view of history you have. Army shoot kill red but never shoot kill yellow that is why different in 2010. Thai people fight for be free country and next election you gonna see Thai people win and people think like you lose

 

Well, talking of one sided view. Which side threw bombs at court buildings, gave out judges personal phone numbers and addresses, shot at protesters, machine gunned an old lady's house because her daughter blew a whistle at someone's ex-wife, shot a protester in the back of his pick up whilst making an speech, through bombs which killed innocent children and by-standers and then applauded it on stage at a rally etc etc etc?

 

Unfortunately, there doesn't appear side that supports the Thai people, law and order fair to all, free speech, real democracy and not corrupt.

 

Hopefully some new political parties that aren't controlled by the establishment or owned by a crook might be formed.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Baerboxer

[Daryle]

Keep adding the fuel to the Thai tinder box. It's primed and ready, I wonder what will set it off?

 

 

[NanLaew]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

The country’s highest court overruled two lower courts that had found him not guilty. While addressing about 10,000 red-shirt protesters at Phai Khiew Temple in Bangkok’s Don Muang district in May 2009, Jatuporn accused Abhisit of being a “tyrant who has his hands stained with blood for ordering the killing of people”. 

 

Jatuporn was referring to a claim by red-shirt leaders that a number of anti-government protesters were killed during their confrontation with security forces on a Bangkok street. However, authorities at that time during the tenure of the Abhisit administration maintained that no one was killed.

 

Abhisit, the leader of the Democrat Party, filed his defamation case against Jatuporn, chairman of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD), in June 2009. 

 

The Criminal Court had rejected Abhisit’s case in December 2012, saying that Jatuporn’s comment was tantamount to political retaliation in a democratic system. 

 

Abhisit later took his case to the Appeal Court, which in 2014 upheld the lower court’s ruling and rejected his plea on grounds that Jatuporn had expressed an opinion. 

 

The Supreme Court yesterday said Jatuporn, as a leader of the red shirt group, was involved in a bitter political conflict with Abhisit. Jatuporn’s allegation against the Abhisit in his speech certainly had an impact on the Abhisit, the court ruled.

 

The court found that the Jatuporn did not make his opinion honestly or criticise the plaintiff in a fair manner. His action was rather libelous.

 

In addition to the jail term, Jatuporn was ordered to have his written apology published in the Daily News, Thai Post and Matichon newspapers for seven days at his own cost.

So the Supreme Court passed a libel judgement not on what was said but rather on what was done. It considered his action as, "rather libelous." Thus handily negating the lower courts verdicts that were all about "comments" and "expressed opinion". ie. the actual spoken words and the freedom of expression.

 

The published apology nonsense is all about face. Abhisit's face? Is he the one that took this to the Supreme Court after getting his arse kicked twice already?

 

Anyway, simply the most awesome display of judicial prowess to date.

 

...well, since the last coup anyway.

[NanLaew]

Just now, Daryle said:

Keep adding the fuel to the Thai tinder box. It's primed and ready, I wonder what will set it off?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Jailing Yingluck?

[Jai Dee]

Several troll posts and personal attacks (flames) have been removed from this thread.