Red shirts reconciled to grim future

[SheungWan]

5 hours ago, Pridilives said:

Even these ones?

 

 

This is what red shirt look like!

Actually what the red shirts really look like is UDD chairperson Thida Thavornseth, former Thailand Communist Party leader:

 

 

[Eric Loh]

23 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

None want democracy. 

 

All want power. 

 

Dont partially quote me. 

Wrong. 

UDD not a political party. They can't have power. The military with help from Suthep stage a coup and now in power. 

[canuckamuck]

23 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

None want democracy. 

 

All want power. 

 

Please don't partially quote me. 

That makes no sense. The reds got nothing if there is no elections. ANd the opposite is true for the others.

The reds clearly want democracy.

 

True the end game is power for both. But where are you going to find a political group that doesn't want power?

[ChidlomDweller]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

 Your argument is.. the reds got their election stolen and could not win in court so they turned violent that makes it all ok... Great. 

 

First off the reds went on the street after the democrats aligned with Newin and formed a new goverment.. that is democratic.. but then they went to the streets too against a lawful goverment... I guess its not bad when the redshirts to it.  

First paragraph, not OK, but in spite of it I consider them by far the best of a very bad lot.  Decades-long feudal exploitative rule may not qualify as violence, but for me it's worse.  I suppose we also have to ignore the officially sanctioned violence from the military in 1974, 1992 and 2010.  One is doing bad in a fit of anger, the other is cold-blooded and deliberate.  

 

As for Newin, that whole context was a judicial coup, and then Abhisit, rather than being a reconciliator became a servant to his puppet masters.  Regular Thais just have to accept their station I guess.  

 

I agree with your last paragraph, they had a chance and blew it.  Thaksin could have been a great reformer, but couldn't control himself.  IMO, it was a rare chance to wait it out another 3-5 years and provide an opening for a new player.  It's far-fetched, but look at Trump and Macron, who saw those guys coming?

 

Like I've stated several times, my preferred alternative is not the false choice between red and yellow but to let democracy play out, and in the meanwhile use the system to temper the worst excesses of politicians.  It could be done if the elites actually cared for the country, as they say they do.  The problem is they only care for the country inasmuch it's there for their own exploitation.  What I've seen from the past 3+ years only confirms what was obvious since late 2013.  Someone mentioned the sakdina system.  That's exactly it.

Edited July 23, 2017 by ChidlomDweller

[Eric Loh]

36 minutes ago, InMyShadow said:

pffft thats nothing compared to other military coups on the world stage.

 

a job well done and zero violence in the years later.

 

softest coup in history!!!

Heard of soft goal. Maybe soft bank but never heard of soft coup. Your definition (not bigot definition) please. 

[ChidlomDweller]

35 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

The rule of law, justice and tolerance. 

Nice, but how to get there?  With the current crop we have the first only.  Patently not the second and third.  

[Bluespunk]

18 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Wrong. 

UDD not a political party. They can't have power. The military with help from Suthep stage a coup and now in power. 

The UDD were the street thugs used by pt's puppet master to violently suppress any opinion he disliked. 

 

They were part of pt's strategy to use and abuse power. 

[Pridilives]

4 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

The UDD were the street thugs used by pt's puppet master to violently suppress any opinion he disliked. 

 

They were part of pt's strategy to use and abuse power. 

Just plain backward wrong.

udd only exist because yellow start everything to end democracy. 99.9% udd is old lady and peaceful people just want democracy.

[Bluespunk]

23 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

That makes no sense. The reds got nothing if there is no elections. ANd the opposite is true for the others.

The reds clearly want democracy.

 

True the end game is power for both. But where are you going to find a political group that doesn't want power?

Elections are part of a democratic process, but to be a democratic party you have to rule in a manner that benefits the country.

 

Pt did not do this. They used elections to gain power and rule for the benefit of their puppet master.  

 

 

[Bluespunk]

1 minute ago, Pridilives said:

Just plain backward wrong.

udd only exist because yellow start everything to end democracy. 99.9% udd is old lady and peaceful people just want democracy.

I never said the various yellow factions were better. 

 

I am just pointing out the UDD are intolerant street thugs. 

[Bluespunk]

17 minutes ago, ChidlomDweller said:

Nice, but how to get there?  With the current crop we have the first only.  Patently not the second and third.  

Just because the parties willing to do this are absent doesn't change my desires. 

[Pridilives]

8 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Pt did not do this. They used elections to gain power and rule for the benefit of their puppet master.  

Patently untrue. 

Regardlessly, when things go off track what should elect government do. Dissolve parliament and call fresh election. What did yingluck do when street mob come? Dissolve parliament and call fresh election. This is how democracy work. ptp follow proper thing.

 

 

[Pridilives]

13 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

I never said the various yellow factions were better. 

 

I am just pointing out the UDD are intolerant street thugs. 

99.9% udd are old lady and peaceful people who just want a fair system that allow there voice be heard.

[Bluespunk]

9 minutes ago, Pridilives said:

Patently untrue. 

Regardlessly, when things go off track what should elect government do. Dissolve parliament and call fresh election. What did yingluck do when street mob come? Dissolve parliament and call fresh election. This is how democracy work. ptp follow proper thing.

 

 

Both sides have resorted to street mobs. 

 

Both are wrong. 

 

I am fully in favour of elections and don't care who wins. 

 

But don't try to bs me about what the UDD are. 

[Bluespunk]

9 minutes ago, Pridilives said:

99.9% udd are old lady and peaceful people who just want a fair system that allow there voice be heard.

Already made clear what the UDD are. 

[Eric Loh]

32 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

The UDD were the street thugs used by pt's puppet master to violently suppress any opinion he disliked. 

 

They were part of pt's strategy to use and abuse power. 

You do know that not all UDD support PT and they oppose the amnesty for Thaksin. You should read more not just opinion of the like minded posters in this forum. 

[Bluespunk]

5 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

You do know that not all UDD support PT and they oppose the amnesty for Thaksin. You should read more not just opinion of the like minded posters in this forum. 

Read and seen (ok, on tv) what the UDD are. 

 

Their function has nothing to do with democracy. 

 

Those who oppose thaksins will should leave, because the UDD is a vessel for his desires. 

Edited July 23, 2017 by Bluespunk

[Eric Loh]

6 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Read and seen (ok, on tv) what the UDD are. 

 

Their function has nothing to do with democracy. 

 

Those who oppose thaksins will should leave, because the UDD is a vessel for his desires. 

How's that? The UDD formed because they opposed the 2006 coup and their major demonstration was to demand an election. That seem a lot to do with democracy. 

[Green Acres]

14 hours ago, ChidlomDweller said:

Are they really that violent, given the level of injustice in this country?  

 

Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable. John F. Kennedy

 

 

I've got an idea for an excellent use for the all-powerful "section 44". The PM can order all of the red shirt leaders (and a few of the yellow fellows as well) to be tattooed on the forehead with the above cited, outstanding JFK quote.

[than]

15 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

You do know that not all UDD support PT and they oppose the amnesty for Thaksin. You should read more not just opinion of the like minded posters in this forum. 

 

UDD was not agree with amnesty because this amnesty cover Abishit too 

 

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Red-shirts-not-against-amnesty-for-Thaksin-but-opp-30217692.html

[canuckamuck]

40 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Elections are part of a democratic process, but to be a democratic party you have to rule in a manner that benefits the country.

 

Pt did not do this. They used elections to gain power and rule for the benefit of their puppet master.  

 

 

I am not disagreeing with you, but even with that reality, it was still the closest thing to democratic representation that the people here have experienced.

 

[Pridilives]

16 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Both sides have resorted to street mobs. 

 

Both are wrong. 

 

I am fully in favour of elections and don't care who wins. 

 

But don't try to bs me about what the UDD are. 

You, my sensitive one are all opinion and no fact on everything. There is a difference between opinion and fact. All you know is your opinion about udd and it is worth nothing to anyone but you unless you have facts to support it.

 

i agree. You have an opinion that udd are just thugs. Wrong as it is. It is yours. And your are entitled it. 

[Bluespunk]

6 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

How's that? The UDD formed because they opposed the 2006 coup and their major demonstration was to demand an election. That seem a lot to do with democracy. 

They are pt's street thugs. 

[Pridilives]

3 minutes ago, than said:

 

UDD was not agree with amnesty because this amnesty cover Abishit too 

 

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Red-shirts-not-against-amnesty-for-Thaksin-but-opp-30217692.html

Whatever reason - they disagreed.

[Bluespunk]

1 minute ago, Pridilives said:

You, my sensitive one are all opinion and no fact on everything. There is a difference between opinion and fact. All you know is your opinion about udd and it is worth nothing to anyone but you unless you have facts to support it.

 

i agree. You have an opinion that udd are just thugs. Wrong as it is. It is yours. And your are entitled it. 

The UDD's violence and preventing those they disagree with from speaking or performing are all the facts required. 

[Pridilives]

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

They are pt's street thugs. 

They are as much pt street thugs as you are

[Bluespunk]

4 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

I am not disagreeing with you, but even with that reality, it was still the closest thing to democratic representation that the people here have experienced.

 

They deserve more and better. 

[Bluespunk]

Just now, Pridilives said:

They are as much pt street thugs as you are

You really are getting desperate and increasingly hysterical now. 

[Pridilives]

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

The UDD's violence and preventing those they disagree with from speaking or performing are all the facts required. 

No facts here. Wrong again you are.

[InMyShadow]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

Heard of soft goal. Maybe soft bank but never heard of soft coup. Your definition (not bigot definition) please. 

Try to think back to when you participated in your home countries election. Wen your party lost did you and tens of thousands march into the capitol city paralyzing it and then shut down the airport followed by the bombing and destruction of a major shopping mall and many innocents killed.

...yep didn't think so .

for thais democracy works great right up until there side loses and then its just another loss of face that must be rectified at any cost.

 

The junta took over "softly" eg tanks didn't run over a hundred protesters.

 

Hope they stay in power at least 10 years. The Thais got the government they deserved :-))

Edited July 23, 2017 by InMyShadow