China says it wants to 'maintain stability' in disputed South China Sea

[webfact]

China says it wants to 'maintain stability' in disputed South China Sea

By Panu Wongcha-um

 

Chinese dredging vessels are purportedly seen in the waters around Mischief Reef in the disputed Spratly Islands in the South China Sea in this still image from video taken by a P-8A Poseidon surveillance aircraft provided by the United States Navy May 21, 2015. U.S. Navy/Handout via Reuters/Files

 

BANGKOK (Reuters) - Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi said on Monday Beijing wanted to maintain stability in the South China Sea as it seeks alliances in the region amid tensions in the disputed waters.

 

The United States has criticised China for disregarding international law by the construction and militarisation of artificial islands in the South China Sea, undermining regional stability.

 

China claims most of the energy-rich sea through which about $5 trillion in ship-borne trade passes every year. Neighbours Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam also have claims.

 

Thailand is not a claimant state in the dispute and has maintained a neutral stance on the topic.

 

Addressing the South China Sea issue, Wang, on an official visit to Bangkok, told reporters China would like to "maintain stability in the South China Sea, abiding by the terms that have been agreed on the Declaration of Conduct and Code of Conduct in near future".

 

China and Southeast Asian countries agreed in May to a framework for a long-proposed code of conduct for the disputed waters.

Wang's visit comes ahead of a regional meeting of Southeast Asian countries in Manila next month.

 

"China and Thailand are like brothers," Wang said.

 

Thai Foreign Minister Don Pramudwinai praised Thai-Chinese relations, saying there were "no obstacles" to the relationship between the two.

 

Thailand this year has approved Chinese submarines, tank and helicopter purchases worth more than $500 million.

 

Last month, Thailand approved the construction of the first phase of a $5.5 billion railway project to link the industrial eastern seaboard with southern China through landlocked Laos, part of China's One Belt One Road regional infrastructure drive.

 

The project, which has been held back by delays, was pushed through after junta chief Prayuth Chan-ocha invoked an executive order known as Article 44.

 

Wang said he hoped the rail project would "elevate" Thailand's status in the region and said that the two countries would overcome differences to bring the rail project to fruition.

 

($1 = 33.4200 baht)

 

(Additional reporting by Amy Sawitta Lefevre, Angie Teo and Panarat Thepgumpanat; Writing by Amy Sawitta Lefevre; Editing by Nick Macfie)

 

[YetAnother]

25 minutes ago, webfact said:

Beijing wanted to maintain stability in the South China Sea

hahaha; stability as they define it

[hawker9000]

12 hours ago, YetAnother said:

hahaha; stability as they define it

LOL - stability, as in,  We own it, it's ours, enter with our permission,   'Sort o' like "stability" as Hitler defined it in Europe, and then as Stalin defined it in Eastern Europe, aka the Soviet Empire.  Funny word, huh?

 

 

[Kiwiken]

All Nations with Hegemonic intent like to spread their version of Stability.

[williamgeorgeallen]

many parallels with hitler who maintained he did not want conflict in the 1930s. have to wonder where it is all heading.

[tonbridgebrit]

Well, as long as Washington does not get involved, then, war won't break out. There's a danger that Washington might support Vietnam, give or sell dis-count weapons to Vietnam.

And little Vietnam, backed by Washington, might fire a few missiles at whatever Chinese island. It's good that Trump is in power. If Trump backs Vietnam, the media will blast Trump, and say it's a crazy move. That's because the media hates Trump. If Hillary was in power, well, the media will support Hillary if Hillary backs Vietnam.

So, with Trump in power, there's less chance of war. Trump actually increases the chances of peace. Hillary and Obama can sell a war to the general public, far more effectively than Trump can.

Edited July 25, 2017 by tonbridgebrit

[Morch]

9 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Well, as long as Washington does not get involved, then, war won't break out. There's a danger that Washington might support Vietnam, give or sell dis-count weapons to Vietnam.

And little Vietnam, backed by Washington, might fire a few missiles at whatever Chinese island. It's good that Trump is in power. If Trump backs Vietnam, the media will blast Trump, and say it's a crazy move. That's because the media hates Trump. If Hillary was in power, well, the media will support Hillary if Hillary backs Vietnam.

So, with Trump in power, there's less chance of war. Trump actually increases the chances of peace. Hillary and Obama can sell a war to the general public, far more effectively than Trump can.

 

That's a bully's logic. If the PRC can pressure each of its smaller/weaker neighbors by turn, it gets what it wants. If someone (in the post above, the US) is to consider intervening in any way, there will be a war.

 

I doubt that if the US will sell/supply arms to any country in the region, it will cause a war. Same goes for "support", whatever that means. The PRC will go to war if it will consider war is in its best interests. Can't pin it all on the US, the PRC can make its own decisions. 

 

According to some reports, your take on Trump may take a hit. Said reports imply that as part of Trump delegating more authority to the Pentagon, future operations (such as US Navy vessels challenging disputed maritime claims) will not be micro-managed as was the practice during Obama's Term. This is not a comment on the wisdom of this change, if correct. 

 

So far the side taking the most actions that can deteriorate things further is the PRC.

 

[Squeegee]

19 hours ago, hawker9000 said:

LOL - stability, as in,  We own it, it's ours, enter with our permission,   'Sort o' like "stability" as Hitler defined it in Europe, and then as Stalin defined it in Eastern Europe, aka the Soviet Empire.  Funny word, huh?

 

 

And as Prayuth defines it in Thailand.

[Scott]

1 hour ago, Squeegee said:

And as Prayuth defines it in Thailand.

The topic is not about Thailand.   Let's please stay on topic.  

[RobFord]

The PRC has put pressure on its smaller neighbors. What if it was a US oil company?

 

China calls it Wanan Bei-21 and has leased the same piece of seabed to a different company.

Exactly which company is not clear. In 2015, the Chinese rights were sold to a Hong Kong-listed company called Brightoil, but it has recently denied owning them.

Two of the directors of Brightoil are senior members of the Chinese Communist Party.

 

http://www.bbhttp://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-40701121c.com/news/world-asia-40701121

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

[boomerangutang]

Regardless of what flowery words Chinese politburo uses, it has one basic aim in the S.C. sea:

 

COMMANDEER AND CONTROL AS MUCH TERRITORY AS POSSIBLE.

 

All else is window dressing.

[boomerangutang]

7 minutes ago, RobFord said:

The PRC has put pressure on its smaller neighbors. What if it was a US oil company?
http://www.bbhttp://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-40701121c.com/news/world-asia-40701121
Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

US oil companies have done bad things historically.  But they never went and commandeered other countries' properties to becoming part of the USA.  China is spreading its tentacles in many directions.  It also has a conquering attitude towards S.E. Asia, but are doing it in such a way that S.E. Asian country leaders don't even know it.  At least the Fils are somewhat aware of it, even thought their leader, Duterte, is ineffectual against Chinese commandeering of Fil territory.

 

Yet, Thailand either doesn't know it's being slowly taken over by China, or its self-appointed Chinese-Thai leaders (and the Shinawatre family) like the idea.

[craigt3365]

19 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Well, as long as Washington does not get involved, then, war won't break out. There's a danger that Washington might support Vietnam, give or sell dis-count weapons to Vietnam.

And little Vietnam, backed by Washington, might fire a few missiles at whatever Chinese island. It's good that Trump is in power. If Trump backs Vietnam, the media will blast Trump, and say it's a crazy move. That's because the media hates Trump. If Hillary was in power, well, the media will support Hillary if Hillary backs Vietnam.

So, with Trump in power, there's less chance of war. Trump actually increases the chances of peace. Hillary and Obama can sell a war to the general public, far more effectively than Trump can.

So China isn't breaking any laws in the SCS?  Leading question.  The international court ruled they were. 

 

Quit blaming Washington for everything.  You lose your credibility.  How about actually admitting China might be in the wrong here? I know, crazy thoughts for you. LOL

[RobFord]

This story is definitely worth following. The latest from Reuters is that Repsol have not left the area as previously reported by the BBC.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-southchinasea-china-vietnam-idUSKBN1AA13I



Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, RobFord said:

This story is definitely worth following. The latest from Reuters is that Repsol have not left the area as previously reported by the BBC.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-southchinasea-china-vietnam-idUSKBN1AA13I



Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

The PRC going on about unilateral actions is too funny.

[RobFord]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-40701121

This link to the previous BBC news article should work.

Well worth a read.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[craigt3365]

21 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

The PRC going on about unilateral actions is too funny.

Exactly.  They are basically telling others not to steal the resources they are trying to steal. LOL

[boomerangutang]

6 hours ago, RobFord said:

This story is definitely worth following. The latest from Reuters is that Repsol have not left the area as previously reported by the BBC.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-southchinasea-china-vietnam-idUSKBN1AA13I

China is pushing the envelope at 1,000 places in 10,000 ways.  The US is the only country which can effectively push back.  The EU or Russia could, but neither has the courage to do so.  I usually advise avoiding war, but the S.C. Sea is 1,000 steps too far.  The US should form a military coalition with S.E. countries, against China's ever-creeping take-over of other countries' territories.  The alternative is; increase of the same, with China eventually putting its ownership claim ever further afield.  Where next after the S.C. Sea?  Papua NG?,  Pacific Islands?   S.E. Asia?   Africa?   Antarctica?   I jest not. 

[RobFord]

China is pushing the envelope at 1,000 places in 10,000 ways.  The US is the only country which can effectively push back.  The EU or Russia could, but neither has the courage to do so.  I usually advise avoiding war, but the S.C. Sea is 1,000 steps too far.  The US should form a military coalition with S.E. countries, against China's ever-creeping take-over of other countries' territories.  The alternative is; increase of the same, with China eventually putting its ownership claim ever further afield.  Where next after the S.C. Sea?  Papua NG?,  Pacific Islands?   S.E. Asia?   Africa?   Antarctica?   I jest not. 

China doesn't recognize international law. They follow a policy of realism.

"Under the policy of realism, nations should continuously play a zero-sum game to maximize their own state interests."

https://intpolicydigest.org/2016/08/29/how-the-chinese-view-international-law/



Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[boomerangutang]

15 hours ago, RobFord said:

China doesn't recognize international law. They follow a policy of realism.
"Under the policy of realism, nations should continuously play a zero-sum game to maximize their own state interests."  https://intpolicydigest.org/2016/08/29/how-the-chinese-view-international-law/

 

 Allow me to re-phrase your opening sentence

'China only recognizes international law when it furthers its agenda.'

 

[tonbridgebrit]

20 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

China is pushing the envelope at 1,000 places in 10,000 ways.  The US is the only country which can effectively push back.  The EU or Russia could, but neither has the courage to do so.  I usually advise avoiding war, but the S.C. Sea is 1,000 steps too far.  The US should form a military coalition with S.E. countries, against China's ever-creeping take-over of other countries' territories.  The alternative is; increase of the same, with China eventually putting its ownership claim ever further afield.  Where next after the S.C. Sea?  Papua NG?,  Pacific Islands?   S.E. Asia?   Africa?   Antarctica?   I jest not. 

China is claiming the South China Sea, and China is certainly not claiming the other lands that you have said. Their claims to the South China Sea are a lot more legitimate than most people on ThaiVisa think. They have no legitimate claims to Africa, Papua NG or Antartica, that's why no claims have been made.

China's disputes with Vietnam ? Okay, the Paracel Islands. They are just as close to China as they are to Vietnam. And archeology (from wikipedia) basically says that China got to the Paracel Islands before Vietnam did. To suggest that China's claim is just as reasonable as Vietnam's claim will be putting it lightly.

What about the rest of the islands on the South China Sea ? Okay, China claimed them before Britain and France turned up in the late 1800s. China did not bother to formally announce ownership to Britain and France at the time. If China had done that, well, there would be no dispute today. Do bear in mind that, Britain and France did not dispute any of China's borders when first turning up in the Far East. That's like saying "Asian countries did not dispute the borders inside Europe when those Asian countries first went to Europe".

[tonbridgebrit]

20 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

China is pushing the envelope at 1,000 places in 10,000 ways.  The US is the only country which can effectively push back.  The EU or Russia could, but neither has the courage to do so.  I usually advise avoiding war, but the S.C. Sea is 1,000 steps too far.  The US should form a military coalition with S.E. countries, against China's ever-creeping take-over of other countries' territories.  The alternative is; increase of the same, with China eventually putting its ownership claim ever further afield.  Where next after the S.C. Sea?  Papua NG?,  Pacific Islands?   S.E. Asia?   Africa?   Antarctica?   I jest not. 

You want to talk about a military coalition between the USA and various SE Asian countries ?  Got to stop China ?

Okay, the Philipinnes is/was massively involved in the dispute with China. The Philipinnes, they already have (or did have) a massive military pact with Washington. But what's happening today ?  Look, we're simply not going to see the Philipinnes and Washington, fighting together, fighting against China.  The Philipinnes is benefitting enormously from trade with China, plus vast potential tourism revenue. Thailand is already flooded with Chinese tourists, I think the Philipinnes will be flooded by Chinese tourists as well, in the next few years. It's sensible for Duterte to stop the disputes with China, and rake in the benefits from Beijing. That's what Duterte is doing. There is going to be no fighting between China and the Philipinnes.

And Vietnam ? No.  There's people in Washington who still remember the Vietnam War. The Vietnamese who were there during the war, they're still in charge today. The media doesn't call them the Vietcong, but today's Vietnamese are from the Vietcong. Ho Chi Minh, he's still a national hero in Vietnam.

Edited July 27, 2017 by tonbridgebrit

[craigt3365]

19 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

China is claiming the South China Sea, and China is certainly not claiming the other lands that you have said. Their claims to the South China Sea are a lot more legitimate than most people on ThaiVisa think. They have no legitimate claims to Africa, Papua NG or Antartica, that's why no claims have been made.

China's disputes with Vietnam ? Okay, the Paracel Islands. They are just as close to China as they are to Vietnam. And archeology (from wikipedia) basically says that China got to the Paracel Islands before Vietnam did. To suggest that China's claim is just as reasonable as Vietnam's claim will be putting it lightly.

What about the rest of the islands on the South China Sea ? Okay, China claimed them before Britain and France turned up in the late 1800s. China did not bother to formally announce ownership to Britain and France at the time. If China had done that, well, there would be no dispute today. Do bear in mind that, Britain and France did not dispute any of China's borders when first turning up in the Far East. That's like saying "Asian countries did not dispute the borders inside Europe when those Asian countries first went to Europe".

China has already had their claims legally refuted.  Zero legitimacy now.

 

They've got dozens of claims with other countries.

https://chinadailymail.com/2013/12/01/china-claims-territories-of-23-countries-but-only-has-borders-with-14/

 

Quote

 

China claims territories of 23 countries, even though it only has borders with 14

The total area of China’s claims on other countries exceeds the size of modern China itself, but Beijing refuses to budge on its claims.

 

Many are based on unsubstantiated (outside China) and unprecedented “historical precedents” dating back centuries.

 

And while China only has land borders with 14 countries, it is claiming territory from at least 23 individual nations.

 

 

Also from that above link:

Quote

Additionally, China recently taunted Hillary Clinton about claiming territorial rights on Hawaii, and claimed that Chinese sailors had settled peacefully in Australia centuries before European discovery. And let’s not forget the supposed 1418 map that “proves” China discovered the Americas (and the entire world) long before Columbus.

 

Your argument about this is bordering on trolling.  Amazing at how hard you defend them.  Even if you are Chinese, you're facts are wrong.

 

This is prefect!  You'll love it.

https://chinadailymail.com/2013/06/26/newly-discovered-ancient-maps-support-chinese-territorial-claims/

Quote

Newly discovered ancient maps support Chinese territorial claims

 

[Golgota]

30 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

China is claiming the South China Sea, and China is certainly not claiming the other lands that you have said. Their claims to the South China Sea are a lot more legitimate than most people on ThaiVisa think. They have no legitimate claims to Africa, Papua NG or Antartica, that's why no claims have been made.

China's disputes with Vietnam ? Okay, the Paracel Islands. They are just as close to China as they are to Vietnam. And archeology (from wikipedia) basically says that China got to the Paracel Islands before Vietnam did. To suggest that China's claim is just as reasonable as Vietnam's claim will be putting it lightly.

What about the rest of the islands on the South China Sea ? Okay, China claimed them before Britain and France turned up in the late 1800s. China did not bother to formally announce ownership to Britain and France at the time. If China had done that, well, there would be no dispute today. Do bear in mind that, Britain and France did not dispute any of China's borders when first turning up in the Far East. That's like saying "Asian countries did not dispute the borders inside Europe when those Asian countries first went to Europe".

Please, be serious, look at the Nine dash map China uses to claim territories and tell me this is not a joke?

Also China is quietly moving on another front : India, there is a big tension between China and Buthan/India those days...and with China opening a base in Pakistan, things could turn ugly qickly...

[Golgota]

5 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

China has already had their claims legally refuted.  Zero legitimacy now.

 

They've got dozens of claims with other countries.

https://chinadailymail.com/2013/12/01/china-claims-territories-of-23-countries-but-only-has-borders-with-14/

 

 

Also from that above link:

 

Your argument about this is bordering on trolling.  Amazing at how hard you defend them.  Even if you are Chinese, you're facts are wrong.

 

This is prefect!  You'll love it.

https://chinadailymail.com/2013/06/26/newly-discovered-ancient-maps-support-chinese-territorial-claims/

 

I am quite sure if we go back in time far enough, the Italians can claim a big part of Europe and a big part of Northern Africa...and probably the French/English?spanish can claim the whole american continent

[craigt3365]

1 minute ago, Golgota said:

I am quite sure if we go back in time far enough, the Italians can claim a big part of Europe and a big part of Northern Africa...and probably the French/English?spanish can claim the whole american continent

I remember being in Portugal somewhere a few years ago.  They had a map and basically 1/2 of the world was controlled by them and the other by Spain.

 

Yes, it's amazing how things have changed over time.  But being a bully like China, doesn't justify what they are doing.  Sadly, some members here just don't get it.

[tonbridgebrit]

11 minutes ago, Golgota said:

Please, be serious, look at the Nine dash map China uses to claim territories and tell me this is not a joke?

Also China is quietly moving on another front : India, there is a big tension between China and Buthan/India those days...and with China opening a base in Pakistan, things could turn ugly qickly...

That Nine Dash map ??  

Do please note, the map came out in 1947.  The Republic of China drew the map. Okay, in 1949, the communists in China won the war, and gave China a new name, the Peoples' Republic of China. Republic of China went to Taiwan, and carried on calling themselves Republic of China. They're actually called Republic of China, Taiwan.

Yes, Taiwan today claims the South China Sea, yes, using the map that they produced. China, as in the Peoples' Republic of China, is using the same map. Notice how people don't wish to blast Taiwan for using the map. And notice how Taiwan is backed by Washington. Washington is not interested in condemning the map, Washington doesn't want to antagonise Taiwan. 


Do you believe the stuff written in wikipedia about the Paracel Islands ? Do you believe that archeology practically shows that China got to the Paracel Islands before Vietnam ?  Do you reckon, if China got there before Vietnam, well, China's claim is legitimate ?

About the Philipinnes. Do you feel, that it's their right (their freedom) to not pursue their claims, if they feel this way ?  Is it sensible for them to look at trade and tourism from China, and then not pursue their caims ?

[Golgota]

Just now, tonbridgebrit said:

That Nine Dash map ??  

Do please note, the map came out in 1947.  The Republic of China drew the map. Okay, in 1949, the communists in China won the war, and gave China a new name, the Peoples' Republic of China. Republic of China went to Taiwan, and carried on calling themselves Republic of China. They're actually called Republic of China, Taiwan.

Yes, Taiwan today claims the South China Sea, yes, using the map that they produced. China, as in the Peoples' Republic of China, is using the same map. Notice how people don't wish to blast Taiwan for using the map. And notice how Taiwan is backed by Washington. Washington is not interested in condemning the map, Washington doesn't want to antagonise Taiwan. 


Do you believe the stuff written in wikipedia about the Paracel Islands ? Do you believe that archeology practically shows that China got to the Paracel Islands before Vietnam ?  Do you reckon, if China got there before Vietnam, well, China's claim is legitimate ?

About the Philipinnes. Do you feel, that it's their right (their freedom) to not pursue their claims, if they feel this way ?  Is it sensible for them to look at trade and tourism from China, and then not pursue their caims ?

1947, things change...you know like for exemple China signing a treaty with UK about the guarantee HK would have freedom until a further date and now China claimning : it is just paper and nothing more...
I know about Chinese History thanks, I also know that chinese propaganda is quite strong that's why I try to have info from China and outside of China...China's presse being so free..you know...

I have serious doubts Taiwan is claiming the same thing China is claiming: one more time look at the map and tell me this is completly normal, just so I will be sure you are already well manipulated by China.

Do you believe that you can find french coins in New Orleans? Does this allow France to claim it? Would you think it is fair if Italy find Roman coins in UK they can claim it? If this is ok for you then you would also agree to give back a big part of China's western land to India as they were here before, right? Probably you will also find Russian artefacts in Northern China, so Russia should have some, right.? It seems people like you want to look at history only when the history is in their favor...China won and loss territories and that's why nowdays there are international laws.

International laws which ruled, on demand of the Philippines, that China was wrong and therefore the international community will not recognize such claims...China decided to ignore this...

 

Cina is a bully, they do not ask nicely to side with them, they pressure countries with economical sanctions, investments withdrawns...etc...currently China apply these kind of pressure to India, mostly because India refused to be associated to the One belt one road project...

 

 

[tonbridgebrit]

20 minutes ago, Golgota said:

1947, things change...you know like for exemple China signing a treaty with UK about the guarantee HK would have freedom until a further date and now China claimning : it is just paper and nothing more...
I know about Chinese History thanks, I also know that chinese propaganda is quite strong that's why I try to have info from China and outside of China...China's presse being so free..you know...

I have serious doubts Taiwan is claiming the same thing China is claiming: one more time look at the map and tell me this is completly normal, just so I will be sure you are already well manipulated by China.

Do you believe that you can find french coins in New Orleans? Does this allow France to claim it? Would you think it is fair if Italy find Roman coins in UK they can claim it? If this is ok for you then you would also agree to give back a big part of China's western land to India as they were here before, right? Probably you will also find Russian artefacts in Northern China, so Russia should have some, right.? It seems people like you want to look at history only when the history is in their favor...China won and loss territories and that's why nowdays there are international laws.

International laws which ruled, on demand of the Philippines, that China was wrong and therefore the international community will not recognize such claims...China decided to ignore this...

 

Cina is a bully, they do not ask nicely to side with them, they pressure countries with economical sanctions, investments withdrawns...etc...currently China apply these kind of pressure to India, mostly because India refused to be associated to the One belt one road project...

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/14/world/asia/south-china-sea-taiwan.html

First, let's sort out Taiwan's role. The above is a link from the New York Times.  Taiwan is definitely making the same (or similar) claim as China ! 

Yes, Taiwan rejected the UN ruling in 2016, same as China's rejection. You say that you know about Chinese history ? Good.


Okay, that map, nine dash line map, drawn by the Republic of China. You are claiming that the map is absurd because, you and others feel that parts of the South China Sea are far closer to other countries than to China. I'm trying to say, those areas were claimed by China before Britain and France turned up during the 1800s. Correct, China did not formally declare ownership to Britain and France when Britain first turned up. Do you accept, if China owned the islands before Britain and France turned up, well, they own the islands, right ? I mean, the islands are closer to other countries, but that does not mean that Britain and France will not recognise the ownership issue, when first turning up in Asia. Surely, you accept this ?


The Paracel Islands ? You've raised the issue of artefacts being dug up in other places. Okay, nobody lives on the Paracel Islands, well, no Vietnamese anyway. Do you reckon, it's more sensible to give the Paracel Islands to Vietnam rather than China ? Why give it to Vietnam ? They're just as close to Vietnam as they are to China. China first said 'they belong to China'. Then, Vietnam said 'no, they belong to Vietnam'. And China physically got there first. And we're suppose to declare that they belong to Vietnam ?  

[Golgota]

18 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/14/world/asia/south-china-sea-taiwan.html

First, let's sort out Taiwan's role. The above is a link from the New York Times.  Taiwan is definitely making the same (or similar) claim as China ! 

Yes, Taiwan rejected the UN ruling in 2016, same as China's rejection. You say that you know about Chinese history ? Good.


Okay, that map, nine dash line map, drawn by the Republic of China. You are claiming that the map is absurd because, you and others feel that parts of the South China Sea are far closer to other countries than to China. I'm trying to say, those areas were claimed by China before Britain and France turned up during the 1800s. Correct, China did not formally declare ownership to Britain and France when Britain first turned up. Do you accept, if China owned the islands before Britain and France turned up, well, they own the islands, right ? I mean, the islands are closer to other countries, but that does not mean that Britain and France will not recognise the ownership issue, when first turning up in Asia. Surely, you accept this ?


The Paracel Islands ? You've raised the issue of artefacts being dug up in other places. Okay, nobody lives on the Paracel Islands, well, no Vietnamese anyway. Do you reckon, it's more sensible to give the Paracel Islands to Vietnam rather than China ? Why give it to Vietnam ? They're just as close to Vietnam as they are to China. China first said 'they belong to China'. Then, Vietnam said 'no, they belong to Vietnam'. And China physically got there first. And we're suppose to declare that they belong to Vietnam ?  

Ok so let's continue : ytou know Taiwan's claim? Well not really it seems :Taiwan first in not recognized by China as a country, but a part of China and therefore downplayed every claim made by Taiwan, Also in a recent article in the New York Times, the President of Taiwan claims that even if they claimed the same thing at first there must be a dialogue, a respect for bodies of land overrluing bodies of water and so on: economic sharing :to summerize they say : yes we claim this but we understand that in those days we must negociate, share and find a good way to be at peace with our neighbour...something China don't want, by militarizing the artifical islands they created (and lying about it) and pressuring the other countries.

 

So you agree China did not declare the islands and yet justify the fact that they can now claim them retroactively ? never such absurd thing could occur. 

You focus on the Paracel Islands, a simple element in the whole claim China is making, do you want me to list all the islands that china is claiming and comparing their history with the Paracel? 
 

Do you agree that China unilateraly created islands from nothing, militarized them, and asked for air control of the zone ?

Do you agree that such unilateral claim may only create a flash  point in the area between all china's neighbours and USA? Do you think this claims will be recognized soon by Japan, Philippine, Vietnam, and others?