Jomtien Immigration: Reporting returns after travel

[tropo]

1 minute ago, Kaoboi Bebobp said:

 

Tough one, indeed.  In your case, the owner faces up to a 10,000 baht fine, based on the immigration video I watched. 

 

Fortunately for me, my owner is represented by the commercial complex manager. She's available 7 days a week and can issue a stamped form that immigration has always accepted. Then again, this won't impact me too often because I'm only out of the country beyond 14 days just once a year. Yeah, I'm kind of accepting it's 14 days, not 30. But I will confirm next week. Well, confirm as far as is possible in Thailand. LOL

 

You wrote: 

I believe this is the TM30 -- Notification of aliens staying at a residence. (I took this from the pinned templates post on the TV visa pages. )

Here's the problem - and I'm sure this would be very common. I rent through a real estate agent and don't have personal contact with the Farang owner. (I like it that way too). I asked the real estate agent for a copy of the owner's Blue Book and they couldn't oblige. What would you suggest I do? BTW this is one of the biggest real estate agents in town which handles a huge property register.

 

I'm protected by my real estate contract (owner pays the fine) if they fine me for not having a completed TM30 form, but what should I do if I leave the country for a while and need to report back at the Immigration Office?

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

^^^ I think the key is the thing noted in the video: The Housemaster, which can mean the owner or any middlemen in the owner/foreign guest relationship. So I think the agent, handling so many lease contracts, would have a template form he/she fills out with your name, passport number and address of the property. This approved immigration form is signed and stamped  by the agent. This is exactly how it's done at my complex. The manager just fills in the blanks with the new info, signs and stamps it with the property name. I've lived there on and off for a few years, and it's always been the same whether I need a certificate of residence or extension renewal. 

 

You might also bring to their attention the law on this and heavy fines if you can't report properly.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Kaoboi Bebobp

[Blinky62]

So far then, it seems that for the extension holder: 
 
Out of country more than 30 days, you have 24 hours from arrival to report on a TM30 form to your home immigration office. I assume it has to be your home office.
 
Along with the TM30, you need to show a rental contract or statement of residence from the apartment owner, or just a utility bill, as noted above. As well as all the usual photocopies of passport, entry stamp and re-entry permit. 
 
But then the question arises, what has to happen when you might need to stay in Bangkok a night before getting a flight to Udon or wherever.  
 
This is certainly starting to get a bit aggravating.
 
But since I'm renewing my extension next week, I will try to get as many answers as possible from an IO.

I think you will find it is within 24 hours of arriving at your residence.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[little mary sunshine]

3 hours ago, tropo said:

How do you report this? On what form?

Form is at Immigration office

[tropo]

2 hours ago, little mary sunshine said:

Form is at Immigration office

Thanks! I realise all forms are at the Immigration Office. Was it a TM30? I was hoping that maybe they invented a new, different form for this purpose - one that doesn't require a lot of paperwork to be included. 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎7‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 6:33 PM, OMGImInPattaya said:

As for the address on the TM form, I don't believe they are used by immigration to track anything, let alone peoples' addresses/locations ( I don't think the info is even entered into their computers). Why do I think this...usually I just put down my street name and "Pattaya" on the form...hardly enough to track anything. I think the information is actually for the TAT  to generally track where visitors to Thailand are going.

 

As for #2...In my case, I'm on a retirement extension and own my own house. Like I said, on returns after international travel, I have never reported my returns until the 90 day deadline after my return nears...most recently just a couple weeks ago. Maybe if someone has a different visa status or in rented or multi-unit accomodation it would be different but I can't see why it would be.

The TM 30 is now used when reporting 90 days as part of the proof of residence.

I think you are talking about the form filled in when arriving in the country.

 

Times are changing. What was acceptable is no longer. Do not complain if you get fined next 90 day report for not filing TM 30 within 24 hours of arrival at your residence.

 

Perhaps you can get away with that at Jomptien- not in Chiang Mai.

[thaibeachlovers]

19 hours ago, tropo said:

Here's the problem - and I'm sure this would be very common. I rent through a real estate agent and don't have personal contact with the Farang owner. (I like it that way too). I asked the real estate agent for a copy of the owner's Blue Book and they couldn't oblige. What would you suggest I do? BTW this is one of the biggest real estate agents in town which handles a huge property register.

 

I'm protected by my real estate contract (owner pays the fine) if they fine me for not having a completed TM30 form, but what should I do if I leave the country for a while and need to report back at the Immigration Office?

You can do the TM 30 yourself. I did so even though I was staying in someone else's house. No problem. Doesn't cost anything. Can do at a police station if no immigration office where you live.

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

19 hours ago, Blinky62 said:

I think you will find it is within 24 hours of arriving at your residence.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Yes, it is 24 hours from arrival at the residence. Just saw a copy of the TM30 online. Thanks.

Edited July 29, 2017 by Kaoboi Bebobp

[tropo]

50 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You can do the TM 30 yourself. I did so even though I was staying in someone else's house. No problem. Doesn't cost anything. Can do at a police station if no immigration office where you live.

I'm aware that you can do it yourself, but you need documents that I can't get. I explained it in the post you replied to.

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

Thanks for everyone's input. After hours and hours of research, I have almost no answers, mostly because every district applies the law differently and variably. 

 

All I can do is ask at Jomtien next week during my extension renewal and get another answer from another IO. 

 

The worst report I read was from Chiang Mai, where some IOs were insisting on address reports even after visiting other Thai locales. 

 

TM30 and Chiang Mai

 

[tropo]

1 hour ago, Kaoboi Bebobp said:

Thanks for everyone's input. After hours and hours of research, I have almost no answers, mostly because every district applies the law differently and variably. 

 

All I can do is ask at Jomtien next week during my extension renewal and get another answer from another IO. 

 

The worst report I read was from Chiang Mai, where some IOs were insisting on address reports even after visiting other Thai locales. 

 

TM30 and Chiang Mai

 

I honestly think they get a kick out of it up there - it's a licence for them to belittle foreigners.

 

It's just another reason why I'll  stay put in Pattaya. Better the devil you know, and overall they are still one of the best Immigration offices in Thailand.

[OMGImInPattaya]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The TM 30 is now used when reporting 90 days as part of the proof of residence.

I think you are talking about the form filled in when arriving in the country.

 

Times are changing. What was acceptable is no longer. Do not complain if you get fined next 90 day report for not filing TM 30 within 24 hours of arrival at your residence.

 

Perhaps you can get away with that at Jomptien- not in Chiang Mai.

I don't know about times changing or how offices other than Jomtien do things...all I know is my personal experience. I stay in Thailand on a non-imm annual visa extension; and have been in the 90- day reporting system for several years. As I've done before, I was out of the country, this time for 16 or 17 days, and my 90-day report deadline fell during my absence. Upon my return, a new 90-day reporting cycle commenced the day of my entry. 

 

A few days before the 90 days were up, I went to Jomtien immigration and completed a new 90-Day reporting form (the receipt from my prior report still being stapled in my passport). The 90-Day reporting officer took my passport and new report form and said they didn't need the form...that they could just enter me reporting that day using the expired receipt because I was already in the system. 

 

So a tip for people in a similar situation, and reporting at Jomtien, you don't have to make a new form if you still have the receipt from your previous report. After a couple minutes, I was finished and there was no mention made of anything else, i.e., needing to report my return to my owner occupied house within some set period after my arrival back in country. Of course, things can change at any time, however, I will continue as I do until reports to the contrary start coming from Jomtien immigration or I do indeed get fined.

Edited July 29, 2017 by OMGImInPattaya

[tropo]

1 hour ago, OMGImInPattaya said:

I don't know about times changing or how offices other than Jomtien do things...all I know is my personal experience. I stay in Thailand on a non-imm annual visa extension; and have been in the 90- day reporting system for several years. As I've done before, I was out of the country, this time for 16 or 17 days, and my 90-day report deadline fell during my absence. Upon my return, a new 90-day reporting cycle commenced the day of my entry. 

 

A few days before the 90 days were up, I went to Jomtien immigration and completed a new 90-Day reporting form (the receipt from my prior report still being stapled in my passport). The 90-Day reporting officer took my passport and new report form and said they didn't need the form...that they could just enter me reporting that day using the expired receipt because I was already in the system. 

 

So a tip for people in a similar situation, and reporting at Jomtien, you don't have to make a new form if you still have the receipt from your previous report. After a couple minutes, I was finished and there was no mention made of anything else, i.e., needing to report my return to my owner occupied house within some set period after my arrival back in country. Of course, things can change at any time, however, I will continue as I do until reports to the contrary start coming from Jomtien immigration or I do indeed get fined.

There have already been reports of people being fined for not reporting after re-entry (at Jomtien).

 

They even posted a notice (at Jomtien) saying that foreigners need to report within 24 hours of arrival.

[OMGImInPattaya]

1 hour ago, tropo said:

There have already been reports of people being fined for not reporting after re-entry (at Jomtien).

 

They even posted a notice (at Jomtien) saying that foreigners need to report within 24 hours of arrival.

Can you cite any such reports? Out of curiosity,  for folks on annual visa extensions,  what would be the point of reporting? When they return to Thailand,  they're logged in by immigration at the point of entry and their address/residence is already on file.

 

Like I said, things can change at any time...but in my case, as of a few weeks ago, my experience was as I reported. I'd be curious to see this posted notice...I'll see if I can find it in 70 days or so at my next report.

Edited July 29, 2017 by OMGImInPattaya

[tropo]

3 minutes ago, OMGImInPattaya said:

Can you cite any such reports?

 

Like I said, things can change at any time...but in my case, as of a few weeks ago, my experience was as I reported. I'd be curious to see this posted notice...I'll see if I can find it in 70 days or so at my next report.

 It's going to tough to find them. I didn't make a copy of the link... I will try to find it, but surely you don't think I'm lying to you about it.

 

Maestro sums it up best here: 

 

 

"Who is required to report to immigration within 24 hours?"

 

1. From an academic, legal point of view it is impossible to say who has to make the notifications required by sections 37 and 38 of the Immigration Act, because we do not know the text of the currently valid conditions and regulations prescribed by the Director General of the Police Department mentioned in those two sections of the Act.

 

2. From a practical – or should I say impractical – point of view it is whoever an individual immigration office or an individual immigration official says at the particular point in time when the question arises.

 

Sad, but true.

 

 

[OMGImInPattaya]

8 hours ago, tropo said:

 It's going to tough to find them. I didn't make a copy of the link... I will try to find it, but surely you don't think I'm lying to you about it.

 

Maestro sums it up best here: 

 

 

 

 

Well I wouldn't put much stock in that quoted post as it's clearly wrong on its face...the law (and the commentaries on it) clearly states it's the landlord's responsibility to report on foreign occupants not the tenant's.

 

In any case, as in all these matters, if the interpretation and enforcement of this law changes in Jomtien we will all just have to follow along.

[gmac]

As always nothing is clear.  Next month I anticipate (subject to Brit Embassy approval of wife's visa) being out of the country for 14-21 days. On my return I may well stay  in Bangkok for a few days in a condo rented by wife's family before returning to my TM30 reported residence in Sattahip.   The Bangkok office doesn't seem to require TM30s so no report there but when I get back to Sattahip it will appear that I/(wife as house owner) have failed to report the return to my residence within the required 24 hours. 

 

How can we possibly get it right when every Immigration Office/Officer applies the rules differently?

[eddysmit]

On 7/27/2017 at 5:39 PM, Kaoboi Bebobp said:

 

Good to know. Thanks.

 

Your last statement could be answered by the fact they would know if the Thai hotel did its mandatory reporting of the foreign guest. 

I would say the numbers must be very high for people that have been away from their local'Province' for the what is it, 48 hours, when by 'Thai law' you should have reported  to the local authority, I have been on weekly, monthly trips sometimes over the years and never reported to the local immigration, but, things are a changing and something as little as an over 'enthusiastic' policeman/traffic one, could decide to be 'awkward' if he discovered you were 'away' from home for more than the allotted time, and as you say all hotels are 'supposed' to inform the law, and can receive a heavy fine if they are caught not reporting, well as the saying goes"it's up to them".

[tropo]

7 hours ago, OMGImInPattaya said:

Well I wouldn't put much stock in that quoted post as it's clearly wrong on its face...the law (and the commentaries on it) clearly states it's the landlord's responsibility to report on foreign occupants not the tenant's.

 

In any case, as in all these matters, if the interpretation and enforcement of this law changes in Jomtien we will all just have to follow along.

I'm not putting stock into anything. I was putting a major effort into trying to find the report of the member who was fined at Jomtien earlier this year for not reporting after arrival and came across that quote from Maestro. IMO it's a very good interpretation of the current state of affairs.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎7‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 3:09 PM, tropo said:

I'm aware that you can do it yourself, but you need documents that I can't get. I explained it in the post you replied to.

Far as I know, you can download the form from the link in the relevant subforum. Otherwise, when I go to immigration I always take a few spare forms for everything.

Not of any help to you, probably, but a reminder to others reading this thread.

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

Things are changing indeed. Just got back from 4 nights in Bangkok to my "home address" on the Darkside. I walk by the open-air counter and immediately and frantically get waved over.

 

"You go out Thailand?" is the very first question!

"No, I go to Bangkok."

"OK. You go out Thailand, I send immigration."

"If I go outside Thailand for 3-4 days, you send to immigration"

"Yes. If you go out, bring boarding pass. Make copy. I give to immigration."

"You go to Jomtien?

"Yes."

 

She is the senior clerk here and only one with passable English other than the lady manager.

 

Wow. I've stayed at this place more than three years in total and have never ever been asked where I came from. So it seems the tracking of us aliens by Jomtien Immigration is serious.

 

Later, I tell her some people say, more than 14 days, the foreigner must tell immigration. Some say 30 days. But no, every time I go outside the country, she said the management will send someone all the way to Jomtien to make a report. She told me the hotel is responsible for sending the information. OK, I'm a lucky person. I don't have to ride the 10 km to soi 5 myself. (The online reporting was taken offline last December because of a fear of getting hacked, I had read in at least two places).

 

But . . . wow. It's not just the initial reporting they have to do but every time you leave the country and return to the same address. I think from now on I may just tell them where I'm going or that I'm not leaving Thailand. This is starting to feel off-putting. 

 

I do not know how return reporting applies to the foreign renter of say, a single condo owner's unit.  I think they would have to do the return check-in like everyone else but you have the difficulty, as in Tropo's case, of chasing the owner. But clearly the immigration word has gone out to hotel and apartment building owners.

 

 

Edited July 30, 2017 by Kaoboi Bebobp
More details.

[thaibeachlovers]

7 hours ago, gmac said:

As always nothing is clear.  Next month I anticipate (subject to Brit Embassy approval of wife's visa) being out of the country for 14-21 days. On my return I may well stay  in Bangkok for a few days in a condo rented by wife's family before returning to my TM30 reported residence in Sattahip.   The Bangkok office doesn't seem to require TM30s so no report there but when I get back to Sattahip it will appear that I/(wife as house owner) have failed to report the return to my residence within the required 24 hours. 

 

How can we possibly get it right when every Immigration Office/Officer applies the rules differently?

I don't understand why you are puzzled.

When you stay in Bkk, it is the condo owner's responsibility to report your stay, or you can do it yourself if they won't.

When you go back to Sattahip, your wife has 24 hours to make a TM30 report for staying there.

It is only a problem if there is no TM 30 report in Bkk.

 

TM 30 is probably one of the few things that are not applied differently depending on location

[tropo]

23 hours ago, OMGImInPattaya said:

 Like I said, things can change at any time...but in my case, as of a few weeks ago, my experience was as I reported. I'd be curious to see this posted notice...I'll see if I can find it in 70 days or so at my next report.

1

I found it! Feast your eyes on this:

 

(This was posted at the Jomtien office)

 

Edited July 30, 2017 by tropo

[oldhippy]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I don't understand why you are puzzled.

When you stay in Bkk, it is the condo owner's responsibility to report your stay, or you can do it yourself if they won't.

When you go back to Sattahip, your wife has 24 hours to make a TM30 report for staying there.

It is only a problem if there is no TM 30 report in Bkk.

 

TM 30 is probably one of the few things that are not applied differently depending on location

QUOTE   >>>>>It is only a problem if there is no TM 30 report in Bkk.<<<<<

 

How can we know whether the hotel or condo owner in BKK filed a TM30 report?

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, oldhippy said:

QUOTE   >>>>>It is only a problem if there is no TM 30 report in Bkk.<<<<<

 

How can we know whether the hotel or condo owner in BKK filed a TM30 report?

If it's an hotel you will have a receipt to prove that you stayed there, and if they didn't do it they will get fined.

If it's in a condo rented by others, you would have to inform the owner/ management that you are staying in the condo, and ask them if they are doing the TM 30. If they say no, you can do it yourself. Take a letter from the people you are staying with as proof that you are staying there.

[oldhippy]

18 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If it's an hotel you will have a receipt to prove that you stayed there, and if they didn't do it they will get fined.

If it's in a condo rented by others, you would have to inform the owner/ management that you are staying in the condo, and ask them if they are doing the TM 30. If they say no, you can do it yourself. Take a letter from the people you are staying with as proof that you are staying there.

QUOTE: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>If it's an hotel you will have a receipt to prove that you stayed there, and if they didn't do it they will get fined.

If it's in a condo rented by others, you would have to inform the owner/ management that you are staying in the condo, and ask them if they are doing the TM 30. If they say no, you can do it yourself. Take a letter from the people you are staying with as proof that you are staying there.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

 

 

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Why the difference? Why not same as hotel: keep the proof that you informed the condo management (a simple e mail) and let them be fined if they were negligent?

 

Edited July 31, 2017 by oldhippy
edit

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, oldhippy said:

If it's an hotel you will have a receipt to prove that you stayed there, and if they didn't do it they will get fined.

If it's in a condo rented by others, you would have to inform the owner/ management that you are staying in the condo, and ask them if they are doing the TM 30. If they say no, you can do it yourself. Take a letter from the people you are staying with as proof that you are staying there.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Why the difference? Why not same as hotel: keep the proof that you informed the condo management (a simple e mail) and let them be fined if they were negligent?

 

Most people wouldn't bother to inform the condo management if they were staying in a condo rented by others, which is what I was referencing.

I don't think an e mail would be proof, unless it was a return e mail acknowledging your notification, but that would probably be OK as proof.

[bander]

On 7/28/2017 at 8:10 AM, Woofer said:

I was on a non immigrate O visa and after 2.5 months applied for the retirement extension at Jomtien. No problems getting the retirement extension, but because I own a house in a company name I had to do my 90 day report at the small office in the front section of immigration. They said I had not reported to immigration at Jomtien within 24 hours of arrival and they fined me 1,600 baht. I countered by saying that they had my address on my visa application and I wrote my address on the TM 30, but they would not accept this excuse. I did not know about this rule of reporting to the local immigration office within 24 hours as I had not been to Thailand for 2 years. This was in May 2017, I not sure if I am an isolated case or not. 

I think you got scammed by that small office, I asked them to make my 90 days report witch is free of charge if you do it yourself, but they wanted 1000 bath service charge. All the small offices in front of the immigration are ripping off foreign customers.

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

The officer behind the desk in this office (photo) said that if you are OUT of Thailand more than 30 days, you must report to immigration within 24 hours of arrival.  You do NOT have to report if less than 30 days, as long as it's to the same address recorded by Immigration. I asked her twice. If it's a new address, the 24 hour condition kicks in. The reporting office is left inside the main door, just to the right of the check-in officer. The front desk has the form. The second photo shows what you need for the submission. Now, a year or two ago, I went to the second floor to report my new address. With the new enforcement, maybe they've moved it downstairs.

 

 

[craigt3365]

On 7/30/2017 at 10:07 PM, tropo said:

I found it! Feast your eyes on this:

 

(This was posted at the Jomtien office)

 

I was with a guy who just got fined 5k for not reporting after his arrival from overseas.  He owns his house, but is not on a retirement visa.  To say he was pissed is an understatement.  First time it's happened to him in many years of coming and going.