Work Permit for freelance teacher

[phitsanulokjohn]

Hi all.

Firstly just a brief background to my circumstances.

Married to a Thai,with extension of stay from a non imm(o) based on marriage,and currently in possession of a re-entry permit expiring 02/01/18.I also have a yellow tabian bahn book.

I work 6 months a year in Uk and 6 months at leisure in Thailand.Have been doing this for many years now.

I'm planning on being back in Thailand Nov/Dec this year,but in any case before extension of stay expires.Next time I wish to stay permanently.

I have always enjoyed working and although I have no pension to rely on,I have assets and am not short of money.

However, not working in Thailand just lazing apart from small excercise,has left me feeling increasingly bored.

It is my intention whilst in Uk to do a tefl course,and start teaching English in Phitsanulok where I reside.I have no intention of working for a School with set hours,but would like to teach freelance with hours to suit.I have several friends in Pattaya who have done this for many years without a work permit,and who are encouraging me to do the same.I am against this as I have always been a straight guy who wants no aggravation from authorities of any kind,but especially from Thai authorities,so wish to play it straight down the line.

Please could anyone advise on how to obtain a work permit to teach freelance.Is there a minimum income I would need,how much would I need to make before paying tax/national insurance etc,is it possible to obtain the permit on a non imm(o) or need to be converted to a (B).If paying tax/NI am i entitled to health care or social security card?

I would be extremely grateful for any advice.

Many thanks.

[Lamkyong]

brief     ??????

[Slip]

I don't think it can be done short of setting up a company with all the baggage that entails.

[jeab1980]

Listen to your friends. Iñ Pattaya.

[BritTim]

I would try explaining your intentions to language schools in Phisanolulok, and see if any are interested in helping you get legal for 25% of your earnings. Some might see you as unwelcome competition, but others might decide that money for doing virtually nothing is a good deal.

[elviajero]

There is no such work permit for freelance teaching. You would only get one if employed by a specific school doing a specific job.

 

You might find a school that will let you work unofficially, but regardless of what they tell you it would be illegal without an official work permit. The local authorities might not have a problem or want to stop you, but there would be no guarantee against prosecution/deportation.

[gk10002000]

I would love to do a similar thing.  I am an engineer with a couple of degree and am about to semi retire.  I would love to just tutor math, science, and other technical things. It keeps me busy, a little bit current etc.  I don't want to teach a regular class or curriculum.   Short of forming a Thai company, which I don't have the desire to do, what I think is needed is to go work for some company that offers tutoring services.  Seems straightforward.  Work for a company that has all that Thai business stuff set up.  Then they issue me a work permit.  Then I tutor as needed.   The student pays the company instead of me, and then the company pays me.   Surely there must be some companies in Thailand that can handle such a thing.

 

 

Edited July 27, 2017 by gk10002000
update

[tonray]

1 hour ago, gk10002000 said:

I would love to do a similar thing.  I am an engineer with a couple of degree and am about to semi retire.  I would love to just tutor math, science, and other technical things. It keeps me busy, a little bit current etc.  I don't want to teach a regular class or curriculum.   Short of forming a Thai company, which I don't have the desire to do, what I think is needed is to go work for some company that offers tutoring services.  Seems straightforward.  Work for a company that has all that Thai business stuff set up.  Then they issue me a work permit.  Then I tutor as needed.   The student pays the company instead of me, and then the company pays me.   Surely there must be some companies in Thailand that can handle such a thing.

 

 

There are but generally the expense and trouble of getting work permit would require you to be a full time employee and not a part time freelancer. Language and Tutor schools hire part time (no visa, no WP) and full time employees. The part timers get paid a higher hourly rate but usually get night and weekend shifts and must be available when slots open up ...their schedule determines yours not the  other way around. Good luck to you.

[tonray]

Also keep in mind that unless you are fluent in Thai, you will not likely be tutoring Thai kids in anything but English.

[blackcab]

Also consider that with a work permit your place of work is fixed and immovable.

 

For teaching, that would be the address of the school supporting the work permit application.

[BritTim]

47 minutes ago, blackcab said:

Also consider that with a work permit your place of work is fixed and immovable.

 

For teaching, that would be the address of the school supporting the work permit application.

I think that depends on what is specified on the work permit. There is nothing to prevent the language school from declaring your home a "branch" for the purposes of your employment.

[gk10002000]

2 hours ago, tonray said:

3 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

I would love to do a similar thing.  I am an engineer with a couple of degree and am about to semi retire.  I would love to just tutor math, science, and other technical things. It keeps me busy, a little bit current etc.  I don't want to teach a regular class or curriculum.   Short of forming a Thai company, which I don't have the desire to do, what I think is needed is to go work for some company that offers tutoring services.  Seems straightforward.  Work for a company that has all that Thai business stuff set up.  Then they issue me a work permit.  Then I tutor as needed.   The student pays the company instead of me, and then the company pays me.   Surely there must be some companies in Thailand that can handle such a thing.

 

 

There are but generally the expense and trouble of getting work permit would require you to be a full time employee and not a part time freelancer. Language and Tutor schools hire part time (no visa, no WP) and full time employees. The part timers get paid a higher hourly rate but usually get night and weekend shifts and must be available when slots open up ...their schedule determines yours not the  other way around. Good luck to you.

 

I understand.  But surely there is a need for technical talent to be available?   Why does a work permit require full time employment?  Scuba dive instructors for example don't work full time.  They work when customers come in.

 

[tonray]

1 minute ago, gk10002000 said:

 

I understand.  But surely there is a need for technical talent to be available?   Why does a work permit require full time employment?  Scuba dive instructors for example don't work full time.  They work when customers come in.

 

Schools don't want the trouble...not worth it to them...and technical talent...not really...high school and uni kids tutor smaller kids every night in math and science ...don't need foreigners for that

[Rhys]

Hope you work it out... you should be happy being here....if working is part of that then you're going to have to play by their rules...

[tonray]

Really the best advice I can give is to become knowledgeable in the IELTS and TOEIC exams....once you build a rep in that...your dance card will be filled every night.

[blackcab]

57 minutes ago, BritTim said:

I think that depends on what is specified on the work permit. There is nothing to prevent the language school from declaring your home a "branch" for the purposes of your employment.

 

Other than the fact that any branch office listed in a work permit must first be listed on page 1 of the company DBD document, and separate VAT (or VAT exemption) registration has to be carried out.

 

Following on from this, separate accounting and auditing needs to be conducted. In the case of a school, the school license would also have to be amended and the new premises would have to comply with the relevant requirements.

 

You definitely can't just add a separate premises to a work permit as a branch.

[elviajero]

4 hours ago, BritTim said:

I think that depends on what is specified on the work permit. There is nothing to prevent the language school from declaring your home a "branch" for the purposes of your employment.

It would be next to impossible for a school to do what you suggest. 

 

I had loads of hassle getting my home office included on my WP, and that is a genuine place of work!

[DavisH]

7 hours ago, tonray said:

Schools don't want the trouble...not worth it to them...and technical talent...not really...high school and uni kids tutor smaller kids every night in math and science ...don't need foreigners for that

But, generally not in english. It's extremely difficult to get high school maths and science teachers now. Even good english teachers are hard to come by.

[JackThompson]

8 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

I understand.  But surely there is a need for technical talent to be available?   Why does a work permit require full time employment?  Scuba dive instructors for example don't work full time.  They work when customers come in.

Many don't have work-permits, and "illegal dive-instructors" are one of the groups used to justify 'crackdowns' at some immigration checkpoints.

 

I would like to do exactly what you describe, but in Computer Science.  I have an advanced-degree, and genuinely enjoy explaining the topic to anyone who will listen.  So few learn the fundamentals, these days, so they don't really understand how the code they are writing actually works - they just "cut and paste" stuff - seen this many times with tech-help.

 

9 hours ago, tonray said:

Also keep in mind that unless you are fluent in Thai, you will not likely be tutoring Thai kids in anything but English.

In my field, workforces often span the globe, and everyone must speak basic-English, plus tech-English to be able to work.  A "technical vocabulary" would be the first part of the course.   If Thais want to compete in this field (and I assume Engineering), they will need to be able to discuss it in English with people from all over the world.

 

@gk10002000 - if you find a way to do this - a school willing to sponsor you for a cut of the earnings, please let us know how you did it.  Could also be done with a group of farang teachers and Thais forming a school and splitting the capital-rqmt.

[tonray]

3 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

In my field, workforces often span the globe, and everyone must speak basic-English, plus tech-English to be able to work.  A "technical vocabulary" would be the first part of the course.   If Thais want to compete in this field (and I assume Engineering), they will need to be able to discuss it in English with people from all over the world.

While absolutely true, reality lies somewhere south of there. Your target market them is going to be Uni students and young professionals in the field. The problem is that most private schools cater to young primary and secondary students. Most of the tutoring done for Uni students is done 'off the books'. But the key here is to poll tutor schools near Universities, that would likely be the most fertile ground for attack.

[baansgr]

How about on line teaching to Chineese students. Plenty work available if you Search. Not paid in Baht and students not in Thailand.

[JackThompson]

11 minutes ago, tonray said:

While absolutely true, reality lies somewhere south of there. Your target market them is going to be Uni students and young professionals in the field. The problem is that most private schools cater to young primary and secondary students. Most of the tutoring done for Uni students is done 'off the books'. But the key here is to poll tutor schools near Universities, that would likely be the most fertile ground for attack.

Agreed on this - and on your earlier post that English here is severely lacking - which hampers Thailand's competitiveness in technical fields. 

 

The thing is, I could probably teach teens the basics, and they would have a huge head-start.  High-School algebra is the most that is used for 90%+ programming work - its understanding the "data-structures and algorithms" that are critical to "getting it." 

 

But how many would be interested, or in the required English, is another question.  It might have to be in Bangkok just to have a large enough pool to find enough students/parents interested - in order to have enough business to justify/offset the inappropriate (for this and most small tech-businesses) capital requirement.

[JackThompson]

5 minutes ago, baansgr said:

How about on line teaching to Chineese students. Plenty work available if you Search. Not paid in Baht and students not in Thailand.

Technically illegal, though safer / very unlikely-prosecution, vs teaching Thai students illegally.

[Machiavelli]

15 hours ago, Lamkyong said:

brief     ??????

Long brief. 

[YetAnother]

12 hours ago, tonray said:

Also keep in mind that unless you are fluent in Thai, you will not likely be tutoring Thai kids in anything but English.

never understood how native-speaking english teachers here can effectively teach thai kids if the teacher cant speak thai at a decent level

[brewsterbudgen]

never understood how native-speaking english teachers here can effectively teach thai kids if the teacher cant speak thai at a decent level

TEFL teachers should be able to teach English to anyone. The learner's first language is immaterial. Classes need to be 100% English. TEFL teachers in western countries have mixed nationality classes with a very wide range of languages.

[tonray]

15 minutes ago, YetAnother said:

never understood how native-speaking english teachers here can effectively teach thai kids if the teacher cant speak thai at a decent level

Speaking Thai in class to students is the absolute best way to ensure they don't learn any English! 

[Chrisdoc]

I have a similar situation. I am a piano teacher but went to rock'n'roll school. Have taught lots with a record of students passing exams etc. I could get a shop near where I stay for 1000 b a week but not legally. I have a Thai friend who teaches piano and I feel sorry for his students.

[12DrinkMore]

On 7/27/2017 at 11:35 PM, gk10002000 said:

Scuba dive instructors for example don't work full time.  They work when customers come in.

 

The vast majority have either no work permit and only work here during the high season, or they (on Phuket) set up a company if they want ot be there long time. A very few have an official work permit. Used to require four or five Thais to be employed for each work permit. Don't think that has changed. 

 

A small but busy dive school in the high season will take on maybe six to ten instructors, there is no way they can afford to take on twenty to forty Thai staff for five months to make it all official.

 

With a significant move towards enforcing the law and increasing the penalties for illegal working plus the prohibitive costs of starting a business I suggest that you either don't bother, or move to a country where your talents are more welcome such as Vietnam, or try teaching the Chinese online.

 

Yes, I have been through a similar loop, and there is no way I would ever contemplate doing it again.

Don't forget the exit penalties of closing a company, which are another bitter pill to swallow after the losses and frustration before.

 

Thailand is a place to spend and and enjoy life. Not a place to consider starting a company and working. 

 

And your worst enemies are those Farang friends who get jealous.....