The Future, Electric Cars

[sirineou]

On 7/30/2017 at 4:34 AM, tpinvest said:

Oh Dear, everyone is getting carried away on the fake news that vehicles will all become electric - absolute nonsense!!!! - electric power is an interim technology until hydrogen power becomes mainstream.

Toyota already have hydrogen cars in production and available for purchase.

All other manufacturers will have advanced prototypes running around .

 

Please don't give me the old red herring that there are no refuelling stations for

hydrogen, that's what was said before the fetish for electrics became mainstream

Please forgive me if I sound pedantic, not my intent, simply to explain my understanding on the subject that is limited.

Hydrogen fuel cell cars are, electric cars !

the only difference is the electricity storage system which in this case is Hydrogen . 

As I understand it and simply put , the Hydrogen is forced through a membrane that separates ions, generating the current necessary in running the electric car. 

Why Hydrogene? because the only byproduct is water and heat, and it's refueling speed

Why not? because Hydrogen , though abundant in nature, it is rarely found in pure form , mostly it is found attached to oxygen  in the form of water , and it takes a lot of energy to extract it. Usually electric energy .

So in essence, creating pure hydrogen is creating liquid electricity ,allowing for a faster refueling of an electric car than recharging batteries.   

My knowledge of the system is cursory please feel free to correct me  , I am not beyond expanding my understanding in this and other subjects.. 

 

  

 

[sirineou]

IMO electric cars are the future, (I own forty shares in Tesla) many others seem to agree with me driving the stock to stratospheric levels. As of yesterday it closed at almost $357 a share for a company that has yet to make a profit. 

Why are electric cars the future? for a number of reasons..

1) efficiency . it is mechanically simpler than en internal combustion  engine car. 

2) energy independance . The energy required to run the system will be decentralised ending the dependance of it to certain regions in the world, and the defence to those regions and delivery routes. 

3) less polluting. Though generating the electricity to run the system produces pollution, The polution is removed from living centers such as cities  to where electricity is produced.. As electric production technology develops, the electricity production pollution will exponentially decrease. 

And there are many other reasons , too many to mention with out making tjs response too wordy and a headache to read. 

I could be wrong, and if I am it will not be the first time. I welcome and appreciate  opposing views., 

 

[Ace of Pop]

IMO electric cars are the future, (I own forty shares in Tesla) many others seem to agree with me driving the stock to stratospheric levels. As of yesterday it closed at almost $357 a share for a company that has yet to make a profit. 
Why are electric cars the future? for a number of reasons..
1) efficiency . it is mechanically simpler than en internal combustion  engine car. 
2) energy independance . The energy required to run the system will be decentralised ending the dependance of it to certain regions in the world, and the defence to those regions and delivery routes. 
3) less polluting. Though generating the electricity to run the system produces pollution, The polution is removed from living centers such as cities  to where electricity is produced.. As electric production technology develops, the electricity production pollution will exponentially decrease. 
And there are many other reasons , too many to mention with out making tjs response too wordy and a headache to read. 
I could be wrong, and if I am it will not be the first time. I welcome and appreciate  opposing views., 
 

So did Sinclair,good if you play the Forex Market n watch em collapse.[emoji383]


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[bert bloggs]

I still want to know how we will charge these millions of cars , and how long it will take to do it ,if say i want to travel from London to Glasgow  . well not me because i will be dead by then ,but my children .

[steve73]

5 hours ago, sirineou said:

Please forgive me if I sound pedantic, not my intent, simply to explain my understanding on the subject that is limited.

Hydrogen fuel cell cars are, electric cars !

the only difference is the electricity storage system which in this case is Hydrogen . 

As I understand it and simply put , the Hydrogen is forced through a membrane that separates ions, generating the current necessary in running the electric car. 

Why Hydrogene? because the only byproduct is water and heat, and it's refueling speed

Why not? because Hydrogen , though abundant in nature, it is rarely found in pure form , mostly it is found attached to oxygen  in the form of water , and it takes a lot of energy to extract it. Usually electric energy .

So in essence, creating pure hydrogen is creating liquid electricity ,allowing for a faster refueling of an electric car than recharging batteries.   

My knowledge of the system is cursory please feel free to correct me  , I am not beyond expanding my understanding in this and other subjects.. 

 

  

 

You are correct in suggesting that thee benefit of Hydrogen over battery electric (BEV) is faster refueling..

It is also allows a longer range between refueling (although for most journeys you rarely actually need the longer range).

Hydrogen fuelled cars using (slightly modified) internal combustion engines have been around for years (I recall reading about a H2 fuelled Shelby Cobra about 20 years ago) and have many of the benefits of fuel cells - i.e. low pollution at the point of use, although they are perhaps less efficient than a fuel cell, and probably more complex (i.e. the ICE has more moving parts).   "Pollution" nowadays is more than just the CO2 and smoky exhaust associated with a Hydrocarbon fuelled engine.  NOx's are produced with any high compression engine, so even a H2 fuelled ICE would generate more than a H2 fuel cell.

 

"IF", hydrogen is considered to be "the future" then perhaps the encouragement for a greater uptake of modified ICE's running on H2 would lead to a larger refueling network, which would allow a smoother transition to HFC, with BEVs dedicated for short distance usage.

 

btw - some fuel cell are designed to run on methanol or other liquid fuels (which would get around the handling difficulties associated with H2).  Unfortunately these cells  are easily damaged by even small amounts of contaminant, so chemically "pure" fuel is required, and the cost of providing such is very high compared to simply extracting the required grade from crude oil... perhaps when we have low cost renewable energy this could be a more attractive option.

 

There are many possible paths to "the future"...

 

[steve73]

33 minutes ago, bert bloggs said:

I still want to know how we will charge these millions of cars , and how long it will take to do it ,if say i want to travel from London to Glasgow  . well not me because i will be dead by then ,but my children .

I recall reading quite recently about a team that drove an electric car from John o' Groats to Land's End and back again in just over 50 hours..(I'll try to find a link and add later).  London to Glasgow would be a mere sprint in comparison.

 

edit - here's the link..  by the way all recharging was free it seems...!

http://nissaninsider.co.uk/from-john-ogroats-to-lands-end-in-a-nissan-leaf/

Edited August 6, 2017 by steve73
to add link.

[Ace of Pop]

Elton has gone from Pay Pall to Rocket Engines , can sell Ice to Eskimos.?


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[sirineou]

2 hours ago, steve73 said:

I recall reading quite recently about a team that drove an electric car from John o' Groats to Land's End and back again in just over 50 hours..(I'll try to find a link and add later).  London to Glasgow would be a mere sprint in comparison.

 

edit - here's the link..  by the way all recharging was free it seems...!

http://nissaninsider.co.uk/from-john-ogroats-to-lands-end-in-a-nissan-leaf/

Thank you for the link,nice article.

      My ex-wife owns a Nissan leaf  she leases it  so that she does not own the batteries and is not locked in the technology. She uses it to commute to work  which is  36 mi there and 36 mi back so range is not a problem 

She is a hospital administrator in the Daytona FL area and there is a place where she can plug in at work if need be..

 She has not paid for fuel  in the length of time she owns the vehicle.

.I never drove the vehicle , but she said it drives great and she loves it. We talked about costs once but as usual I was not paying attention , (which explains the reason we are divorced LOL ) but with government incentives I seem to remember that the cost of ownership sounded relative to a comparable internal combustion car.