Keep the Chinese away from us say Jomtien condo owners

[Justgrazing]

6 hours ago, mlmcleod said:

In the USA, the Chinese are always so quiet and respectful that you would hardly notice them.  Sadly, The Asian Chinese have never been exposed to the rest of the world so they will have to learn the hard way.  I remember the Ugly American and I do hope we learned.  The Chinese will too!

 

It's just my opinion, please don't get mad!

Are you suggesting the tidal wave of Chinese flooding out Thailand are rude , ignorant and bad mannered .?  If so you're quite right though I doubt if they will ever learn to improve .. There are too many of them .. And so a lot of folk here say they know no different or better .. Blocking places up by standing about in their thousands is the norm there by all accounts ( have you ever seen their railway stations on national holidays Jeez there's tens 'o' 000's of them ) and gobbing in the street is quite acceptable .. So in the face of that upping their politeness is gonna be a hard sell .. Maybe the flag they so obediently follow can be made bigger and printed with a list of do's & don'ts .. Maybe we just gotta endure it ..  

Edited August 2, 2017 by Justgrazing
Spelling

[Orton Rd]

Nobody seems to like Chinese tourists and after seeing them trying to push in immigration lines and shouting and spitting in May neither do I

 

 

 

[Rimmer]

some off topic troll posts have been removed

[Dave67]

2 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

Nobody seems to like Chinese tourists and after seeing them trying to push in immigration lines and shouting and spitting in May neither do I

 

 

 

"Without any bad intention.... " that's the thing they act exactly the same in their own country.I can't see a change in behavior happening.

[Ling Kae]

4 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

Nobody seems to like Chinese tourists and after seeing them trying to push in immigration lines and shouting and spitting in May neither do I

 

 

 

That video says it all. Just screaming, pushing, usining feet to ring bells at the temples, sh!ting on temple grounds......and then the tourist minister defends their actions.  what a disgusting lot of tourists they are.

[Jim Turner Mad Punx]

On August 2, 2017 at 7:17 AM, mlmcleod said:

In the USA, the Chinese are always so quiet and respectful that you would hardly notice them.  Sadly, The Asian Chinese have never been exposed to the rest of the world so they will have to learn the hard way.  I remember the Ugly American and I do hope we learned.  The Chinese will too!

 

It's just my opinion, please don't get mad!

That's because they are isolated. Get a couple anywhere or a solo and they get real meek and keep to themselves. Put them in a group and they change.

 

its because they are afraid of being alone.

 

something I have noticed with other Asians, including thai as we'll, but to a lesser extent then Chinese.

 

other Asians in the USA as we'll, very meek and quiet if not in a group of their own ethnicity.

[YetAnother]

1 hour ago, Jim Turner Mad Punx said:

 

its because they are afraid of being alone.

 

something I have noticed with other Asians, including thai as we'll,

insecurity at the individual level, very common here; most obvious in the males; the conformist idealogy of the education system here sure doesnt help

[theguyfromanotherforum]

15 hours ago, Jim Turner Mad Punx said:

That's because they are isolated. Get a couple anywhere or a solo and they get real meek and keep to themselves. Put them in a group and they change.

 

its because they are afraid of being alone.

 

something I have noticed with other Asians, including thai as we'll, but to a lesser extent then Chinese.

 

other Asians in the USA as we'll, very meek and quiet if not in a group of their own ethnicity.

 

I noticed that younger couples are mostly well behaved.... except when a woman opens her mouth and the poor guy has to endure.... well... whatever he has to endure.

[A1Str8]

I can understand them. They are protecting their investment from a mindless herd. 

[The Deerhunter]

Sounds like they need a clause barring short term (less than one or 3 months)  sub leasing of apartments.  Ban day or week listing on Airbnb.

[The Deerhunter]

On 7/29/2017 at 10:57 AM, bert bloggs said:

Unfortunatly the tiny minority are the well educated polite ones that seem to come to Pattaya ,the vast majority are the ones who now have a bit of cash ,but still behave like complete uneducated boars ,loud and ignorant ,and thats not being racist ,its just telling it the way it is without having to worry that i will be prosecuted by the PC police 

In other words the usual case of 95% giving the rest a bad name.  We were booked by friends into a Russian hotel in Vladivostok that also specialized in Chinese tours.   We NEVER got to see the inside of the dining room.  Crowds down the corridor from before opening till meal closing time.  Partly hotel management to blame but we Farangs do not compete well with Chinese in queues.   We just went and ate outside in the town.  (And that was interesting too,)  Hint!  You gotta love mayonnaise to enjoy Russian cuisine.

Edited August 9, 2017 by The Deerhunter

[DekDaeng]

On 28/07/2017 at 7:05 AM, InMyShadow said:

It's fair they stay out. Nobody wants to see their common areas covered in spit!

Rhymes with spit

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

Thats what you get when you do business with the israeli
Tulip Group and the owner Kobi.  Same crap at Centara Avenue
in central Pattaya.
 
 

Take your subtle antisemitism elsewhere please.

Can't you see this is a China bashing thread?

[The manic]

On 28/07/2017 at 7:14 AM, just.a.thought said:

The hotel would be pretty pissed off if it was the other way around...apart from that,they better get use to it quick.Just down the road a big Chinese project is under construction and more are coming. Chinese developer selling direct to Chinese is the next big thing in Pattaya. Good or bad,guess that depends on who you are asking. It did take awhile before people got use to the Russians so why would it be any different this time.

Are Chinese citizens allowed allowed to own foreign property or to export large amounts of money? 

[Global Guy]

On 7/28/2017 at 8:55 AM, williamgeorgeallen said:

thats why it is better to rent and move to another condo if you are not happy. house i bought was on a street next to a hotel being renovated. it was renovated twice in 4 years. 12 hours of jackhammering  a day sometimes 7 days a week. was horrible when my son was born. it was the same hotel on soi holiday that was confiscated last week due to being used by zero dollar chinese tourists. it was also right beside the reflection development. i wanted to move but it took 4 years to sell at a loss. i have always believed in buying property to live in, thailand changed that.

So, so true! I will never buy a place to live in, and for the same lack of rule of law here, is the reason the investment group I lead decided to pass on purchasing hotels here. I'll gladly pay the rent to have the freedom to move when another stupid situation pops up, like crazy neighbors, building construction, horrible quality of the houses/condos, etc. And, there is always something popping up too.

 

Always. You can be sure that if you have peace in Pattaya, it won't last, someone will screw it up.

[Global Guy]

On 8/2/2017 at 9:17 PM, mlmcleod said:

In the USA, the Chinese are always so quiet and respectful that you would hardly notice them.  Sadly, The Asian Chinese have never been exposed to the rest of the world so they will have to learn the hard way.  I remember the Ugly American and I do hope we learned.  The Chinese will too!

 

It's just my opinion, please don't get mad!

Where in the USA?  Try Rosemead, Temple City, San Gabriel, etc. If you know these cities, you'll know what I mean. 

[Suradit69]

10 hours ago, JSixpack said:

Keep movin' and payin' that rent, pal. Love it.

 

Yes, I bought my condo when I was still working in the UAE and for nearly a decade used it 3 or 4 months a year for holidays.  Then 11 years ago I moved in to live year round. So I've occupied it, quite happily, for roughly 11x12 + 10x 3.5 = 167 months. Even assuming a modest average rental of 15,000 a month (and had I stayed in hotels on holiday it would have been way more), that's around Baht 2.5 million not paid to someone else The bed and bath have been used only by me. The furnishings and kitchen are of my own choosing. The building has been well maintained and had periodic improvements and refurbishments. And I still have a few more years ahead of me ... living rent free. When I die, my heir will be able to sell for a decent amount. Even if it doesn't sell at a great price (although at present the building is pretty much fully occupied ) it will be a lot more than if I had died in a rental.

 

Can honestly say it's been nearly hassle-free and any minor problems have been easily resolved. A great investment, especially since I bought it in the wake of the 1997 Asian financial crisis when the baht was around 40 baht to the dollar and real estate was fairly cheap.

 

Of course if you choose to rent some place that offers condos for Baht 6000 a month, that may seem a bargain but you can hardly be surprised if the place isn't well-maintained and some of your transient neighbors aren't overly worried about how they behave.

[Global Guy]

22 hours ago, JSixpack said:

 

 

 You're leaving our members, and the lucky members of your investment group, still exposed to terrifying risk, man. What happened to fiduciary duty? Remember, we don't know what nasty surprises they have in store for us. Look what happened to the bridge players. So

 

 

 

Now after years of reading postings from our sharpest analysts with the best advice, in 2014 I distilled the collective wisdom into the now-classic shrewd, street-smart TVF Poster Three Primal Laws Of Survival In Thailand, with a small addition recently suggested by thaibeachlovers:

 

1. Never invest in anything you aren't ready to lose;

2. Never own more than you can carry with you or don't mind leaving behind;

3. Keep your suitcase packed at all times.

 

Which is all you need. BTW, quoting one or more of the Laws gives you ten (+10) instant points of TVF posting cred from the peanut gallery.

 

 

Keep movin' and payin' that rent, pal. Love it. I did that many years ago before I wised up. But the rental hordes have comforted themselves with the Little Miss Muffet Model for decades in the countless CONDO GLUT/CONDO CRASH/FOOLS BUY REAL ESTATE threads. Nothing new here. But they keep banging their heads against the wall of this inconvenient truth:

 

 

Yep. In proportion to the thousands of owners, or former owners, only a few malcontents post here. Most owners are happy enough. That's why though our renters keep chanting everybody's heading for the exits, we've yet to see any evidence of it. It's really more of a wish, as renters don't like owners being happy in their properties. Gripes them to no end. Why's that?

 

Now the renters aren't really talking to the vast majority of owners, who don't care who's renting and who isn't, or care what renters think about ownership when after all they don't even own anything. So what we always have are merely renters in a circle jerk reinforcing the renter groupthink.

 

 

But many buildings, esp. older buildings, are constructed well and the quality is quite good 'nuff. Give me one complaint ever about the construction of Northshore, Royal Cliff Garden, Ocean Marina, or Markland. One example is enough to prove my point.

 

As this is one of your fears, it appears you just don't know much about construction at all, so yes, you'd probably suffer buyer's remorse. Keep payin' rent. Buying a condo in a Third World country takes due diligence. Most of the disappointments come from those bought off plan, which was rather foolish of them, though it sometimes works out OK.

 

And then if you had crazy neighbors or heard some noise, it appears you'd have to spend most of your time in residence curled up on the floor in a fetal position. And that would be sad. Happened to one of members some months ago. Helpless.

 

But if you're cut out for owning, you grow a pair and talk to the neighbors, work w/ the condo office, install soundproofing etc. And so merely fix the problems and go right on not paying any rent and enjoying having your own place. Piece o' cake. Obviously there can be the odd exception to every rule.

 

 

Nonsense. I know farangs who've lived happily in the same condo for decades. Known a few that the only way they left was in ambulances taking their old corpses to the Police Hospital for the autopsies. As noted, if someone tries to screw up your happiness you deal with it; you adapt and keep right on goin'.

 

So, kinda boils down to what a person prefers and can deal with. I don't have a problem with your embrace of the Little Miss Muffet Model at all.

 

 

 

Using outliers do not prove the rule. By your own writing you said one example proves your point. Unfortunately you proved yourself wrong. In dealing with construction quality, I defer to my wife who spent over 10 years in the commercial engineering field where she did exactly this - assessing construction quality and developing renovation plans to fix said problems. She can tell which large construction companies to avoid and they number more than ones to buy from in Thailand.

 

Regarding renting...I own numerous properties, just not in Thailand. The properties I do own are far more profitable than anything I could own in Thailand...including appreciation, equity build up, tax benefits, and money cash flow. Throw in the lack of rule of law here compared to where I own and your attempts at preaching about renting don't apply in my case. 

 

So, having been a real estate investor for 27 years I'm going to rely on my experience and success in this field. Buying a condo in Thailand means nothing, any idiot can do it. That doesn't mean it's financially intelligent. When your neighbors start having nightly parties, keeping you up all night, I'd like to see you fight that at the local courthouse. Good luck failing with that. If you rely on rule of law for a foreigner to protect your investment, now that is a risk profile that qualifies as gambling, not investing.

 

You have to wonder about foreigners who want so bad to think Thailand is anything other than a third world country that they ignore reality.

 

 

[Global Guy]

11 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

 

Yes, I bought my condo when I was still working in the UAE and for nearly a decade used it 3 or 4 months a year for holidays.  Then 11 years ago I moved in to live year round. So I've occupied it, quite happily, for roughly 11x12 + 10x 3.5 = 167 months. Even assuming a modest average rental of 15,000 a month (and had I stayed in hotels on holiday it would have been way more), that's around Baht 2.5 million not paid to someone else The bed and bath have been used only by me. The furnishings and kitchen are of my own choosing. The building has been well maintained and had periodic improvements and refurbishments. And I still have a few more years ahead of me ... living rent free. When I die, my heir will be able to sell for a decent amount. Even if it doesn't sell at a great price (although at present the building is pretty much fully occupied ) it will be a lot more than if I had died in a rental.

 

Can honestly say it's been nearly hassle-free and any minor problems have been easily resolved. A great investment, especially since I bought it in the wake of the 1997 Asian financial crisis when the baht was around 40 baht to the dollar and real estate was fairly cheap.

 

Of course if you choose to rent some place that offers condos for Baht 6000 a month, that may seem a bargain but you can hardly be surprised if the place isn't well-maintained and some of your transient neighbors aren't overly worried about how they behave.

 

Well, I guess your example represents every expat in Thailand now, right? I move more than once every 11 years. I would be bored in the same exact spot for that long.

 

Please share your story about how you know a bar girl who is an honest one too, will you? That will convince me that they all are! LOL Yes, that was sarcasm.

[YetAnother]

9 hours ago, Global Guy said:

You have to wonder about foreigners who want so bad to think Thailand is anything other than a third world country that they ignore reality.

agreed; try this exercise: make a list that has 2 columns; one that captions 'items suggesting thailand is other than a third world country', next , another column captioned 'items suggesting thailand Is a third world country'; next fill out the list adjusting the items for personal importance; then critically examine the list;

conclusion should be clear: thailand is definitely a third world country;

note : many of us love it here, primarily due to the ease of which first worlders and seasoned international travelers can identify and end-run foolishness here

[Global Guy]

4 hours ago, YetAnother said:

agreed; try this exercise: make a list that has 2 columns; one that captions 'items suggesting thailand is other than a third world country', next , another column captioned 'items suggesting thailand Is a third world country'; next fill out the list adjusting the items for personal importance; then critically examine the list;

conclusion should be clear: thailand is definitely a third world country;

note : many of us love it here, primarily due to the ease of which first worlders and seasoned international travelers can identify and end-run foolishness here

 

Yes, "end running" the nonsense in Thailand is the key to surviving and enjoying it here. I know people get offended by calling Thailand a third world country but that's what it is. Good or bad. Most people in BKK are just one or two generations from living in rural farming country.

 

A friend once said "You have to crack the code here. Pattaya has its own code, BKK has its own code, and Thailand has its own code."

 

What has dramatically reduced my frustrating incidents and stress levels is whenever I need to do something that involves interacting with a Thai, I have my wife do it. In the minority of times I have to do it without her, I have her write out what I need and if I can include a pic on my mobile, I do that as well. Learning the language, which I did study quite successfully, is only so helpful. Studying the language doesn't change my ethnicity or the inherent discrimination that Thais have towards foreigners.

 

I'm all about immersion and have studied numerous languages of other countries I've lived in and traveled to, but in Thailand, that helps reduce some of the scam attempts, that's where I found it most useful.

 

I feel bad for the newer people who have discovered Thailand in the last ten years or less and missed out on how it used to be 15 or so years ago. But now it's probably better than it will be in five years from now so it's all contextual. And the people who lived here 25+ years say the same thing.

 

I do miss the elephants walking around the cities though!

 

 

[JSixpack]

15 hours ago, Global Guy said:

Using outliers do not prove the rule. By your own writing you said one example proves your point. Unfortunately you proved yourself wrong. In dealing with construction quality,

2

 

You wish. Good try but read carefully and try to pay attention. I said, "point," not "rule." You made part of YOUR rule that building construction, horrible quality of the houses/condos prevents you from buying. I merely gave you not one example, but four examples of good construction and observed, correctly, that there are "many" others. So then it becomes a matter of your finding good construction.

 

In fact, you've made a number of amusing "rules" in your posts recently and ended that post with a silly Always rule.

 

Quote

I defer to my wife who spent over 10 years in the commercial engineering field where she did exactly this - assessing construction quality and developing renovation plans to fix said problems. She can tell which large construction companies to avoid and they number more than ones to buy from in Thailand.

 

 

So far so good, though "numbering more" is something of a red herring. But it seems you haven't yet made the deductive leap to the realization that you could show your wife a specific building in Thailand and merely ask her if it has good construction quality. You've got to get down to the building level, man.

 

Note that I said that most owners are "happy enough." And that includes with the construction, which in most cases doesn't have to be absolutely first class but good 'nuff. It's merely one aspect of value factored into the total cost here as opposed to "back home."

 

In all countries you'll find some developers are better than others and the number at the bottom is larger than that at the top. In the USA, for example, you can buy a cut-rate matchbox from Pulte and spend years correcting all the problems or a first-rate custom mansion from Calvis Wyant. Stating the obvious isn't useful and just blowing smoke.

 

Quote

Regarding renting...I own numerous properties, just not in Thailand. The properties I do own are far more profitable than anything I could own in Thailand...including appreciation, equity build up, tax benefits, and money cash flow. Throw in the lack of rule of law here compared to where I own and your attempts at preaching about renting don't apply in my case.

2

 

Experienced, knowledgeable, well-heeled real estate investors in Thailand might just as well say that their investments in Thailand are far more profitable than any they could make elsewhere. Yes, we do have successful investors here--real investors, not naifs buying off plan from a salesgirl at Big C, who are the source of most of the horror stories here. Only one or two real investors bother posting amid the idiocy on TV on rare occasions.

 

And I totally agreed with you earlier that you don't know enough about this market to buy anything and that you really should continue to embrace the Little Miss Muffet Model. And now that you've implied the tax benefits of owning in, say, the USA are greater than in Thailand, I'd like to emphasize my agreement.   I'd note, BTW, that a naive faith in inevitable equity appreciation in Western countries really isn't always rewarded. But so many balloons to pop, only one keyboard . . . .

 

Quote

When your neighbors start having nightly parties, keeping you up all night, I'd like to see you fight that at the local courthouse.

 

 

Fine example of working in the Complex Question and Just In Case fallacies into one sentence. Common form of "argument" on the forum when an argument is more emotional than logical.

 

I've earlier addressed your fears about noise and pointed out how to resolve them, mostly. Now any noise complaint on the forum gets 5-star treatment among our renters to reinforce the groupthink. These emanate mostly from those who didn't do their due diligence in the first place. When you have more experience in real estate investing, you'll learn about the importance of location among other factors. However, if it comes down to it—as it rarely does—yes, legal remedies have been sought and granted. I personally know of just such a case. Your problem may simply be farang victimism and ignorance, as suggested by this nonsense recently:

 

Quote

A non-Thai writing to the government with suggestions? You've got to be kidding right?  Oh, no, you do not have a RIGHT to do anything in a country you're not a citizen of.

 

 

 

Quote

You have to wonder about foreigners who want so bad to think Thailand is anything other than a third world country that they ignore reality.

 

 

Funny, I've read the forum almost daily for years and only occasionally read a post disagreeing that Thailand is a Third World country, usually by some theoretician. But I think in this case you've merely resorted to a straw man argument. If not you could quote a few for us and show how their opinion relates to this topic. But you can't do that.

 

Read what I said again: Buying a condo in a Third World country takes due diligence. Read: Third World country. So if you ever decided to abandon Little Miss Muffet, you'd need to find out from our experienced owners like KittenKong what that particular due diligence means, exactly.

 

Edited October 4, 2017 by JSixpack

[JSixpack]

16 hours ago, Global Guy said:

Well, I guess your example represents every expat in Thailand now, right?

 

 

Desperate exaggeration. Suradit69 made no such implication. What is it you don't understand about

 

Quote

On 5/13/2017 at 9:08 AM, Suradit69 said:

. . . for every story of "psychological torture" posted on TV there are undoubtedly thousands of people who are quite pleased with their condos or homes.

 

 

 

Yep. Though owners don't often post in the middle of our renter circle jerks, there are quite a few other examples on the forum--though for some strange reason it seems you've never read any.

 

Here's one I noticed today for ya:

 

On 6/22/2017 at 8:19 AM, dotpoom said:

But people like me are willing to take our chances and take life as it comes particularly as we are coming to the end of our days anyway. I own my own home, I can do as I please with it on a whim. I don't have to ask another person' s permission to hang a picture on my wall. I can change my garden to whatever way I like. I am not at the behest of another. I don't have to be obliged to another for them to sign a form for Immigration. I don't have to pay rent every week. I don't have to allow a landord to "show" my condo to potential buyers. In other words....."I am king of my own castle" for today anyway and seeing as I live one day at a time ....that is forever.

     Above all...I will have something tangable to leave my partner.....a home that we built up together.

2

 

No, the fantasy here is that the unhappy naif who bought off plan from the Big C sales girl represents all owners.

 

Quote

I move more than once every 11 years. I would be bored in the same exact spot for that long.

 

 

Which is no argument against ownership at all. Once you gain more experience in real estate investing, you'll learn that owners can rent out their properties and live wherever they like while collecting rent. Think about it: that's what the owner of your condo is doing with your payments. No, Thailand has no law requiring an owner physically to occupy his property or preventing him from renting it. Maybe get your wife to read up on Thai law.

 

Quote

Please share your story about how you know a bar girl who is an honest one too, will you? That will convince me that they all are! LOL Yes, that was sarcasm.

1

 

Edited October 4, 2017 by JSixpack

[JSixpack]

2 hours ago, Global Guy said:

What has dramatically reduced my frustrating incidents and stress levels is whenever I need to do something that involves interacting with a Thai, I have my wife do it. In the minority of times I have to do it without her, I have her write out what I need and if I can include a pic on my mobile, I do that as well.

1

 

Why not get the wife to do the same when you interact w/ the forum, but in the reverse? Get her to write out the original content, and then you merely post it, or if her English is good enough just let her do all your posting for you. She sounds pretty good.

Edited October 4, 2017 by JSixpack

[Rimmer]

Some wildly off topic posts have been removed, topic is about: 

 

Keep the Chinese away from us say Jomtien condo owners

[Rimmer]

A baiting post has been removed also an off topic post

[Ace of Pop]

They look as sad as Russians did in Europe years ago when they got off CruiseShips .


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Rimmer]

Please stay on topic which is:

Keep the Chinese away from us say Jomtien condo owners

[ExpatOilWorker]

On 7/28/2017 at 11:25 AM, Dave67 said:

When I worked in China at one we stayed near (Within 100k in China is near) Shaolin Temple and the Terracotta army. We went to the Shaolin temple and it was a nightmare, they have shuttle buses to take you up the hill and its a scum down to get a seat, Guides with Megaphones conducted the commentary to several different hoards at one time, another scrum down to get a view of any attraction, litter and empty water bottles strewn everywhere. I made the mistake of going to the Toilet for a piss and it was a trough cut into a concrete floor full of <deleted>.So I never went to see The Terracotta army.

 

Off topic point Worked in Wuhan, Guangzhou, Xi'an, Zhengzhou and many other smaller towns, It's common to see little kids poohing in the street they actually have a flap on the back of their trousers to allow that to happen , so add that gobbling and slurping and disguting table manners, I've seen a Government official bark up a grolly and gob it under the table at a company dinner. I feel the pain of the people who are having their homes invaded. Rant over

You didn't miss anything. The original Terracotta tombs were all raided, what they are showing now is all fakes and replicas.

[joepattaya1961]

As with other condo annex hotel projects.......

Hotel facilities such as pool, fitness, sauna and steamroom which are originally meant for hotel guests can be used by the condo-owners. 

Now the condo owners are complaining that Chinese tourists are using "their" common grounds incl. pool and other facilities? 

Please bear in mind, dear condo-owners, that it's probably the same chinese that keep the real-estate market in Pattaya upright.