Denied Tourist Visa at Vientiane , Laos Thai Consulate

[tstcman]

I have 4 total tourist visas in my passport. 2 from last year and 2 dated to from this year. Exiting the country on Monday going across into Laos Thai authorities stamped my last tourist visa saying that I had too many Tourist Visas. And the unfortunate part is when I looked in my passport at the time to make sure that they were stamping me out, I failed to notice put in my passport. 

 

So when I went to the Thai consulate the next day I was number three in line and they told me " We can't get you more tourist visas and you have to have the proper paperwork for anything else " The options given to me was for me to go to the border and  try to get a 15 day stamp or a stamp for 30 day G7 tourist exemption stamp.

I was granted a 30-day exemption stamp and was told that I can extend that at the immigration office here in Chang Mai after the 30 day period. 

 

Has anybody else had this problem, where immigration didn't bother to check the dates on the stamp and just denies you because they were lazy?

So within the next two months, I have to go back to Laos again and spent another 15,000 baht in lodging and airfare fees to get my marriage visa which was the whole reason I needed one more tourist visa.

So be careful, the Thai tourist and or Border police are cracking down on the smallest things.

 

[ubonjoe]

11 minutes ago, tstcman said:

I have 4 total tourist visas in my passport. 2 from last year and 2 dated to from this year. Exiting the country on Monday going across into Laos Thai authorities stamped my last tourist visa saying that I had too many Tourist Visas.

Are you sure it was put on the visa by immigration. They don't do that.

I think it was done by the embassy or consulate that issued that visa and you never noticed it.

 

[tstcman]

You could absolutely be right. But I was told that we can have 3 tourist visas in 1 year. Was I misinformed?

[JackThompson]

26 minutes ago, tstcman said:

Exiting the country on Monday going across into Laos Thai authorities stamped my last tourist visa saying that I had too many Tourist Visas. And the unfortunate part is when I looked in my passport at the time to make sure that they were stamping me out, I failed to notice put in my passport. 

If the stamp says, "This person travels to Thailand frequently..." - this is something Thai Consulates add to the Visas they issue, if they see a series of previous TR Visas in an applicant's passport. 

Vientiane will not issue a Tourist Visa if you have that notice on any previous TR Visa in your passport.  The only way around this is to get a new passport - OR (as you are doing) - qualify for a different type of visa.

 

1 minute ago, tstcman said:

You could absolutely be right. But I was told that we can have 3 tourist visas in 1 year. Was I misinformed?

There is no set limit.  Vientiane once counted old TR Visas I had in my passport before a 7-mo break out of the country and gave me that extra-stamp on my visa.

 

[steven100]

4 minutes ago, tstcman said:

You could absolutely be right. But I was told that we can have 3 tourist visas in 1 year. Was I misinformed?

3 Tourist visas in a single year ....   

not sure if that's allowed anymore ...  

Ubonjoe will know more on that issue .

Edited August 2, 2017 by steven100

[tstcman]

The second question was,  was I told correctly by the consulate that with the 30-day exemption stamp I can go to immigration here in Chiang Mai and extend it for 30 days AFTER the first 30 days?

[tstcman]

Thank you, everyone, for the feed back so far.

[JackThompson]

39 minutes ago, tstcman said:

to get my marriage visa which was the whole reason I needed one more tourist visa

Note on the marriage-aspect - be sure and get docs headed to the MFA at the start of this visa-exempt entry or the start of your extension of it.  I was refused getting a document certified because of "not enough days left" on my current permission of stay.  The translation-svc (for the "affirmation of freedom to marry document"), said the MFA required 15 days, and I only had 11 at that time.  I had to extend first, then they could use my new permit-of-stay stamp to get MFA to certify the translation and embassy-officer's signature.

 

4 minutes ago, tstcman said:

The second question was,  was I told correctly by the consulate that with the 30-day exemption stamp I can go to immigration here in Chiang Mai and extend it for 30 days AFTER the first 30 days?

Yes - correct.  You can do it in the last week or two of your existing permit-of-stay (some offices ask you to wait longer than others) - but do not wait until the current permit-of-stay is finished.  You don't lose any days doing it early - the new 30-days is added to the last 30-days.

 

Edit:  Also on marriage issues - check with the amphoe to find out what they want.  Do Not go on what people did last year, as they are adding new things.  This can save trips to your consulate and sending docs for certification by the MFA.

Edited August 2, 2017 by JackThompson

[tstcman]

Thanks, Jack. Yes, I got denied the document certified because of "not enough days left as well which is why I went to Laos this week, to begin with. Oddly they told me here in Chiang Mai it was because I needed 10 days in my visa left and I had 7 days left.

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, tstcman said:

Thanks, Jack. Yes, I got denied the document certified because of "not enough days left as well which is why I went to Laos this week, to begin with. Oddly they told me here in Chiang Mai it was because I needed 10 days in my visa left and I had 7 days left.

I am not sure that is a MFA policy. I am sure it is not in effect at the main office in Bangkok.

If you can get married before your 30 days end you could apply for a 60 day extension to visit your bride.

[tstcman]

Thank you, Ubonjoe

[JackThompson]

42 minutes ago, tstcman said:

Thanks, Jack. Yes, I got denied the document certified because of "not enough days left as well which is why I went to Laos this week, to begin with. Oddly they told me here in Chiang Mai it was because I needed 10 days in my visa left and I had 7 days left.

Our experiences are very similar - a visa-run to Vientiane spoiled by a stamp on an old TR Visa (which Savanakhet had ignored, prior, as the stamp was from Phnom Penh) - so turned into a visa-exempt run (lucky it was coming back at a friendly land-border from Laos) - also being stifled by MFA's (or who-ever's) 10/15 day rule, etc. 

 

I got held up a 2nd time for not having an "MFA Certified copy of my passport" with not enough days left for another MFA-cycle, at that point.  Not all amphoes want this, but many more do this year than last year.  One translator I spoke to on this (to handle sending/receiving from the MFA and mailing it back to me, in this case) said they "thought they could maybe get it done with only 10-days left" on my permit-to-stay stamp. 

 

Also, everyone I spoke to said "No Express Service from MFA Any More" - both for translation and signature certifications.   I offered to pay extra for this, so I don't see the translators/agents I spoke to would lie, and I shopped-around - laziness trumps greed?  They were all in Bangkok, since Pattaya outfits wanted 4K vs 1.6K for the same job. 

 

Let us know what happens at the amphoe.   Bottom line, all those "married in Thailand in a day or two" stories are no longer relevant. 

[tstcman]

Yeah, I read that they stopped the express service for the paperwork. I will tell you guys what happens tomorrow if I can get out to MFA .

[ubonjoe]

13 minutes ago, tstcman said:

Yeah, I read that they stopped the express service for the paperwork. I will tell you guys what happens tomorrow if I can get out to MFA .

A member recently posted that he got the express service for a signature verification but was complaining about waiting around all day for it.

It is still shown on this these flow charts from the department of consular affairs website. http://www.consular.go.th/main/th/services/6441/71860-ขั้นตอนการรับรองนิติกรณ์เอกสาร---Legalization-Proc.html

In my opinion it is best to pay for them to send them to you by EMS. A friend got there too late for express service and got his verification by EMS the next day.

[elviajero]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Are you sure it was put on the visa by immigration. They don't do that.

I think it was done by the embassy or consulate that issued that visa and you never noticed it.

 

Immigration at Nong Khai have been known to use that stamp in the past.

[007 RED]

The member Ubonjoe was referring to above was me.

I went to MFA Consular Division last week to get my embassy letter confirming income authenticated - additional enhancement required by my local IO.

I can confirm that the express (same day) service is available at 400 Baht per page (100 word per page).  Normal service is collect in 2 day at 200 Baht per page.

If you want same day service you must present the documents before 09:30.  Collect after 14:30.

They can also post documents back to you by EMS at extra small fee..

I arrived at 07:00 and left at 14:45. A long day.  Next time l will do as Ubonjoe suggested and get  them to post the documents back to me.

 

[spidermike007]

The entire country is suffering from a declining tourism industry. And that will not change. It is a permanent declining trend. They need easier, and simpler visa policy, not more difficulty. They just don't get it. As I stated previously:

 

I have a friend who recently stayed on Samui. He stayed at a resort that has 54 rooms. Normally, they are 100% booked, from about Dec. 20th, to about January 5th. This year, they only had 22 rooms filled. They are down 60% for the peak season. Many resorts are experiencing similarly alarming numbers. These hotels counted on the government to support them, when they spent millions on their properties, and the government has let them down, once again. They continue to drop the ball, at every opportunity. 

 

Many tourists bring in real money to the country, and in exchange, are treated with utter and complete disregard, scammed, disrespected, and abused. Eventually, many will say no more. Thailand thinks the country is something very special, and that nobody would ever say no, or find alternative places to visit. The fact is that there are countless other spots, that offer better service, more expertise in food and beverage (especially wine), reasonable import duties to sustain a luxury goods market, better training, and far better english skills. Thailand simply is losing sight of the big picture, and has very little vision, with regard to big spending tourists, who need to be catered to, instead of scorned. I agree in asking the tourists to show that they have the means to support themselves. Nothing wrong with that. The country does not need beggar tourists, or hippies without a pot to piss in. 

 

The neighbors are trying too hard, and making too much effort, and investing money. Thailand is not. Though this topic relates mostly to tourism, in a way it pertains to ex-pats living here too. And I too am considering other spots. Thailand is making no steps whatsoever, to improve upon itself. On alot of levels, it feels like it is either standing still, or more than likely going backwards. Frankly, the biggest draw at the moment is being close to my wife's family, the food, the relatively pleasant. But, I dislike the government, and the level of ignorance being perpetrated by the fabulously inferior educational system here does not appear to bode well for the future of the place. I also despise the practice of face, and the staggering level of cowardice that accompanies that weak, pathetic quality. And with the baht getting stronger all the time, my guess is that many are considering a move. 

 

It is a real shame, as I find most Thai people to be quite lovely, friendly, warm, helpful and fun to be around. There are many aspects of life here, that I truly enjoy. I am sure many feel the same way. Just wish the country was not moving backwards, (and was instead moving forward under the leadership of progressive minds) due to a system of meritocracy, and a complete lack of forward looking vision. A nice dream indeed.

 

Moving the country forward? I think not. More like "Moving Thailand backwards at an alarming pace".

 

 

[sanemax]

8 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

The entire country is suffering from a declining tourism industry. And that will not change. It is a permanent declining trend. They need easier, and simpler visa policy, not more difficulty. They just don't get it. As I stated previously: 

 

They are not clamping down on tourists though .

They are clamping down on log stayers and long stayers usually have condos , rather than stay in resorts

[spidermike007]

3 minutes ago, sanemax said:

They are not clamping down on tourists though .

They are clamping down on log stayers and long stayers usually have condos , rather than stay in resorts

 

It does not matter. They are spending money here. The average foreigner spends 35,000 to 100,000 baht per month. That is far more than the average Thai. And they stimulated the economy to begin with, by purchasing that condo you refer to. I am not asking for credit. But, will the government ever see the benefit foreigners bring to the table? Will they ever be able to get past their ignorant, nationalist agenda? Are all foreigners evil? 

[sanemax]

2 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

It does not matter. They are spending money here. The average foreigner spends 35,000 to 100,000 baht per month. That is far more than the average Thai. And they stimulated the economy to begin with, by purchasing that condo you refer to. I am not asking for credit. But, will the government ever see the benefit foreigners bring to the table? Will they ever be able to get past their ignorant, nationalist agenda? Are all foreigners evil? 

Its seem that the Thai Gov just doesnt want long term foreigners living here , those who have no reason to be here .

   Many of the long termers, the Pattaya, drinking , whoring mob are a bad influence on Thai society .

   Most of them just spend all day moaning and complaining about Thais and Thailand anyway .

   Best for all if they part ways

[lkv]

17 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

It does not matter. They are spending money here. The average foreigner spends 35,000 to 100,000 baht per month. That is far more than the average Thai. And they stimulated the economy to begin with, by purchasing that condo you refer to. I am not asking for credit. But, will the government ever see the benefit foreigners bring to the table? Will they ever be able to get past their ignorant, nationalist agenda? Are all foreigners evil? 

In order to spend, first of all you have to be able to stay. Rates for this privilege are between 500K to 2M, depending on how long you choose to stay so that you can spend more.

 

As you very well stated in your previous post: "Thailand thinks the country is something very special"

 

They live in a fantasy world, I would say.

Edited August 2, 2017 by lkv

[Proboscis]

The crackdown by Thai immigration is well-known, what with the sudden imposition of the "must be carrying 20k in Thai currency or equivalent" and other conditions.

 

For those who live and work in Laos, especially Vientiane, and who were used to spending one or two Saturdays per month in Thailand stocking up on hard to find groceries, playing golf or catching up with resident falang over a few pints of that famous black beer in the Irish pub in Udon, life has become more tedious due to the Thai visa changes.

 

First, you only get 2 shots at crossing the border per calendar year without a visa. After that, you need either a multiple entry visa or a single entry visa. Multiple entry visas require all sorts of paperwork, not only a work permit and stay permit from Laos but also a signed letter from the CEO of the company where you work. And you pay too - from memory 5,000 baht. By the way, that only gets you a 6 month visa. If you have a family, each member needs such a visa - for your typical family of 4, that amounts to 40,000 Baht per year in visa fees alone just to be able to cross the border on a weekend. Hmmmm

 

Although the Lao immigration are fairly swift in providing work permits and stay permits as long as all the paperwork is in order, there are times when assembling the paperwork takes time, such as when a project is starting and business permits are in the offing but not yet complete. Before these Thai visa changes, in such circumstances you simply got a one month visitor's permit on arrival in Laos and headed to the Friendship Bridge every month for a visa run to check out and back into the country and this could be done for as long as was necessary. You can also extend at the Lao immigration office but most expats preferred the Friendship Bridge for a few hours or weekend in Thailand.

 

But now, once you run out of your 2 Thai visa waivers, each time you want to get a new Lao permit, you have to get a single entry Thai visa so as to get into Thailand, which takes 2 days at the Thai consulate - and remember, that is 2 days when you are without your passport just when you may be trying to apply for some Lao paperwork. And it can only be single entry because you do not yet have a Lao work permit.

 

And then, if you follow the logic, as soon as you have used your third single entry  Thai visa in one year, no doubt the Thai consulate will refuse you any more. By my calculation, keeping one visa waiver in reserve (many expats prefer this in case they have a medical emergency), assuming that you extend each Lao visa, you have a max of 32 weeks if you plan everything properly and to the exact date - bear in mind that the Lao visa is only for 4 weeks, not a calendar month, you have seven and a half months grace before you have to resort to some sort of plan B.

 

Yes, plan B can involve flying - currently there are no restrictions on Thai visa waiver for international arrivals by air for many countries (EU, USA, Australia etc). But the rumour is that a new restriction is in the offing for arrival by air too.

 

For those who still need to do a visa run for their Lao visa, perhaps flights to some other destinations is in the offing. A low cost air provider is now running flights between Vientiane and Singapore. Perhaps that is the way of the future. Goodbye Thailand . . . 

[JackThompson]

8 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Its seem that the Thai Gov just doesnt want long term foreigners living here , those who have no reason to be here .

   Many of the long termers, the Pattaya, drinking , whoring mob are a bad influence on Thai society .

   Most of them just spend all day moaning and complaining about Thais and Thailand anyway .

   Best for all if they part ways

Whoring is for the rich.  That means they are putting in huge foreign-investments - far more than the average retiree.
Also, most prostitution in Thailand is for Thai-consumption.

If they "part ways" who will pay for all those Thai families their activities support?

 

20 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

It does not matter. They are spending money here. The average foreigner spends 35,000 to 100,000 baht per month. That is far more than the average Thai. And they stimulated the economy to begin with, by purchasing that condo you refer to. I am not asking for credit. But, will the government ever see the benefit foreigners bring to the table? Will they ever be able to get past their ignorant, nationalist agenda? Are all foreigners evil? 

Agree with the first part.  Many in govt don't think we are evil - just look at the different policies from one immigration-checkpoint to the next - even within that department there are significant differences in attitudes towards foreigners. 

Nationalism isn't necessarily bad.  Protecting one's nation from foreign product-dumping with tariffs, to preserve self-sufficiency so you can't be held to-the-wall by foreign corporations is good.  Same with keeping out all foreigners who enter to undercut labor-pay for citizens.  But keeping out people who arrive with their own money to spend doesn't serve a constructive purpose, and that is where the line is crossed from sane, defensive-nationalism to "shoot yourself in the foot" xenophobia.

[stephen tracy]

5 hours ago, steven100 said:

3 Tourist visas in a single year ....   

not sure if that's allowed anymore ...  

Ubonjoe will know more on that issue .

The thing is that the MEV is good for 9 months once if you use it right.  It's effectively 3 visas to be used within 9 months.

[sanemax]

11 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Whoring is for the rich.  That means they are putting in huge foreign-investments - far more than the average retiree.
Also, most prostitution in Thailand is for Thai-consumption.

If they "part ways" who will pay for all those Thai families their activities support?

 

Most Thais do it with discretion .

They dont tend to ride motorbikes around with a scantily clad prostitutes on the back in full view .

   The Thai families who are being supported by prostitution may just have to get themselves a job and provide for themselves

 

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

Thailand thinks the country is something very special, and that nobody would ever say no, or find alternative places to visit.

I think that the opposite is true .

The Thai Gov doesnt want us here and wants us to go .

The problem is with some foreigners , they think that they are special and that no Country would ever say no to them

[JackThompson]

5 minutes ago, sanemax said:

I think that the opposite is true .

The Thai Gov doesnt want us here and wants us to go .

The problem is with some foreigners , they think that they are special and that no Country would ever say no to them

"The Thai Government" is not a single-minded entity.  Even without the segment which is no longer in power involved, there are different groups with different philosophies and agendas.  If "they" were a unified group that wanted us gone, they'd have changed the visa-laws already and most to all of us would have been gone, and rather quickly. 

 

14 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Most Thais do it with discretion .

They dont tend to ride motorbikes around with a scantily clad prostitutes on the back in full view .

   The Thai families who are being supported by prostitution may just have to get themselves a job and provide for themselves

 

I know what you mean, but most of those cases are probably their girlfriends.  The gals leaving the clubs with men tend to be dressed rather conservatively.  I'm open to ideas on what those gals could do that would bring in a fraction of the money.  If you actually care about those women and their families, ask them if they want - it may not be what you "think is best for them."  

 

Granted, the best way to create more opportunities / options which are not in "that business" would be to make it really easy for anyone with foreign-sourced incomes to stay here - in all budget ranges.

[ubonjoe]

50 minutes ago, Proboscis said:

But now, once you run out of your 2 Thai visa waivers, each time you want to get a new Lao permit, you have to get a single entry Thai visa so as to get into

But you could get a more than one entry from a single entry tourist visa by getting a re-entry permit while here at immigration. 

If you were making a trip here every 30 days you could get 3 entries from the visa by getting a 30 day extension of the 60 day entry and a re-entry permit for the remainder of the 60 days and the 30 day extension.

[Cletus]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

The entire country is suffering from a declining tourism industry. And that will not change. It is a permanent declining trend. They need easier, and simpler visa policy, not more difficulty. They just don't get it. As I stated previously:

 

 

You kidding, are you actually living in Thailand? 

Tourism decline??

Lol Thailand is extra-full of tourists and I'd add spoiled by too many of them.

Jan 2017 has seen an all time high of 3,197,050 arrivals https://tradingeconomics.com/thailand/tourist-arrivals

 

Yes, def a tourism decline in this diagram:

http://www.thaiwebsites.com/tourism.asp

 

 

I think it's a BOOM not a decline!

Edited August 2, 2017 by Cletus
double graph

[sanemax]

10 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

 

I know what you mean, but most of those cases are probably their girlfriends.  The gals leaving the clubs with men tend to be dressed rather conservatively.  I'm open to ideas on what those gals could do that would bring in a fraction of the money.  If you actually care about those women and their families, ask them if they want - it may not be what you "think is best for them."  

Those village families who survive on the 5000 Baht or so money that their daughters send home every month, will just have to do what everyone else does in the village . Work .

   Or those ladies who live in the biggest house in the village by their ill gotton gains will just have to realise that living in a hut is where their social status is

    Think of those families working hard in the village fields all day doing honest work for a meager salary , then seeing the local tart arrive with bag full of money from prostition