House Blessing Ceremony

[tutsiwarrior]

we are preparing to have our new shop house addition blessed and the usual preparations are underway...get in the food, all the usual logistical stuff, etc. On our return from tescos this pm and unloading the groceries I found the bro in law and Mama sitting at the foot of a monk that was advising the position of the good luck shrine for the premises (three shop houses inna row...turns out to be inside on my side by the foot of the stairs)

I nodded to the monk as I was unloading the carrier bags but noticed in passing that everyone in the room kept their head level lower than the monk's. Confused, I stayed in the kitchen unloading groceries rather than embarass the family by some falang indiscretion when they were obviously in serious discussion.

What's the deal here? We got a bunch of monks coming over for the usual chanting, etc and the usual protocol must be observed, falang included. There is a water pouring ceremony that I remember from the previous time and I know now that one does not wai a monk...do I keep my head at a lower level than theirs?...doan matter to me, whatever brings good luck to the household.

The wife, as usual is in a fluster making the preparations and has no time to instruct me other than to say wear trousers and a shirt. So I must appeal to my thai visa bretheren...please advise...

Edited January 3, 2007 by tutsiwarrior

[SanukJoe]

we are preparing to have our new shop house addition blessed and the usual preparations are underway...get in the food, all the usual logistical stuff, etc. On our return from tescos this pm and unloading the groceries I found the bro in law and Mama sitting at the foot of a monk that was advising the position of the good luck shrine for the premises (three shop houses inna row...turns out to be inside on my side by the foot of the stairs)

I nodded to the monk as I was unloading the carrier bags but noticed in passing that everyone in the room kept their head level lower than the monk's. Confused, I stayed in the kitchen unloading groceries rather than embarass the family by some falang indiscretion when they were obviously in serious discussion.

What's the deal here? We got a bunch of monks coming over for the usual chanting, etc and the usual protocol must be observed, falang included. There is a water pouring ceremony that I remember from the previous time and I know now that one does not wai a monk...do I keep my head at a lower level than theirs?...doan matter to me, whatever brings good luck to the household.

The wife, as usual is in a fluster making the preparations and has no time to instruct me other than to say wear trousers and a shirt. So I must appeal to my thai visa bretheren...please advise...

I have no idea about the ceremony, but I know you can wai a monk. The way to do it is hands at the level of your eyes or forehead.

If I was you I would have a word with the wife, she is supposed to tell you, and she should be happy to have a samee who is willing to follow thai tradition.

Good luck!

Joe

[tutsiwarrior]

we are preparing to have our new shop house addition blessed and the usual preparations are underway...get in the food, all the usual logistical stuff, etc. On our return from tescos this pm and unloading the groceries I found the bro in law and Mama sitting at the foot of a monk that was advising the position of the good luck shrine for the premises (three shop houses inna row...turns out to be inside on my side by the foot of the stairs)

I nodded to the monk as I was unloading the carrier bags but noticed in passing that everyone in the room kept their head level lower than the monk's. Confused, I stayed in the kitchen unloading groceries rather than embarass the family by some falang indiscretion when they were obviously in serious discussion.

What's the deal here? We got a bunch of monks coming over for the usual chanting, etc and the usual protocol must be observed, falang included. There is a water pouring ceremony that I remember from the previous time and I know now that one does not wai a monk...do I keep my head at a lower level than theirs?...doan matter to me, whatever brings good luck to the household.

The wife, as usual is in a fluster making the preparations and has no time to instruct me other than to say wear trousers and a shirt. So I must appeal to my thai visa bretheren...please advise...

I have no idea about the ceremony, but I know you can wai a monk. The way to do it is hands at the level of your eyes or forehead.

If I was you I would have a word with the wife, she is supposed to tell you, and she should be happy to have a samee who is willing to follow thai tradition.

Good luck!

Joe

cheers Joe...trouble is there are about a dozen monks (an estimate from the last time) that come over for the chanting...most of them younger than me. I can see wai for the head and his senior associates but tradition requires no wai for someone younger than oneself. As a falang it is difficult to see the significance one way or the other...I just don't wanna do an embarrassing faux pas regarding the ritual.

The wife is in motion preparing to go to the wat to get tables, big pots and etc to prepare for the party following the blessing tomorrow...there ain't no approaching her until things conclude the day after.

oh...to be a helpless falang in a falang paradise

Edited January 3, 2007 by tutsiwarrior

[Thaddeus]

cheers Joe...trouble is there are about a dozen monks (an estimate from the last time) that come over for the chanting...most of them younger than me.

From personal past experience, there will probably be 9 monks, two of which will be senior long term monks, the other seven will be junior long term monks, possibly even novice monks.

As Joe says, it's perfectly Ok to wais a monk (in fact you should do) thumbs at forehead level.

One thing to think about Tuts, monks are people too and they understand that there are culture differences and a lack of experience from westerners. Unless you do something to deliberately belittle Buddha, and I'm talking about a premeditated serious insult, they should not be offended, just getting the wais slightly wrong will probably cause more amusement than shock. As a matter of fact, the monks in our local Wat bust a gut laughing whenever I try to do the, kneel down wais floor slap, process.

Be polite, be deferential, do what the wife tells you to do instantly, don't step over any floor level food and don't break wind ...... you'll be fine

//edit/typo

Edited January 3, 2007 by Thaddeus

[rtaxron]

I had this problem in Lop-Buri when the house was blessed.

The wife at the time told me nothing about what was going to happen and when the 5/6 Monks arrived I didnt know what the hel_l to do, so i just sat in the background with a Lager as all the Family and neighbours listened to the chants and waited for the Monks to be served food first when it was all over.

I did have one problem which was a bit embarrassing and that was I had installed two smoke detectors and as some of the Family/friends were cooking during the prayers and chants, they kicked off the alarms and I was wafting a newspaper to cut out the noise and finally had to take out the battery's.

The Monks thought it was funny after the Ceremony and were quite happy drinking my Black Label Whiskey and smoking my Silk Cut Cigarettes, which they thought tasted like cotton wool.

Edited January 4, 2007 by rtaxron

[tutsiwarrior]

cheers Joe...trouble is there are about a dozen monks (an estimate from the last time) that come over for the chanting...most of them younger than me.

From personal past experience, there will probably be 9 monks, two of which will be senior long term monks, the other seven will be junior long term monks, possibly even novice monks.

As Joe says, it's perfectly Ok to wais a monk (in fact you should do) thumbs at forehead level.

One thing to think about Tuts, monks are people too and they understand that there are culture differences and a lack of experience from westerners. Unless you do something to deliberately belittle Buddha, and I'm talking about a premeditated serious insult, they should not be offended, just getting the wais slightly wrong will probably cause more amusement than shock. As a matter of fact, the monks in our local Wat bust a gut laughing whenever I try to do the, kneel down wais floor slap, process.

Be polite, be deferential, do what the wife tells you to do instantly, don't step over any floor level food and don't break wind ...... you'll be fine

//edit/typo

what I'm tryin' to sort out here is the ritual surrounding the house blessing...loadsamonks, some old, some young...might look weird if I was to wai some novice 30 years younger than me...

I shall put onna shirt anna tie to demonstrate the proper falang respect and simply perform as the wife indicates...just hope that passes muster. From the last time the monks always remain impassive...hard to know if they are approving of the falang or not. I'd like them to keep our best thoughts in mind while they are chanting for good luck...

the wife is bringing in some monks from a wat near her brother's house this time for the new addition, not the same ones that blessed the house when we bought it...I'm thinkin' that maybe I fcuked up the first time around (stumblin' an' hungover)...hope that I get it right this time...

so you reckon that a wai is OK for monks? I read on another thread a couple of years back that it is not done but other signs of respect are appropriate like keepin' yer head level below theirs?...to all the monks my age or older of course a wai is in order as a personal acknowlegement, aside from their position...to someone considerably younger, well...

[p_brownstone]

The age of the Monk does not matter - whether he is older or younger than you does not matter either.

You Wai a Monk because he is a Monk, and thus deserving of respect, and when passing close to a Monk - again, irrespective of his age - you should bend down slightly. It's not essential to make sure your head is lower than his unless he's a really senior Monk, simply making the gesture of noticeably lowering your head is enough..

As others have pointed out however don't be too worried about transgressing customs, as you are a Farang they will appreciate whatever efforts you make to adapt to the culture.

Patrick

Edited January 4, 2007 by p_brownstone

[lopburi3]

It they wear the cloth of a monk you can wai them - they can not wai back. Normally this is done as they arrive and depart. But they will not be insulted if you fail to do so and your marriage should remain intact.

Although all will try to sit lower, and in a normal surrounding monks be on a raised platform to help this, they will understand if you need to sit in a chair rather than cross legged, or if you hang out somewhere in the back.

The contrast with a Christian Church service can be difficult at first (no big thing if phone rings/someone talks/children cry/someone has to ask how to do something).

Probably the most important thing, which is true anywhere, is arrange the bottom of your feet so they are not pointing at a monk (and hopefully nobody else either - although that may not be possible).

Patrick has put it well in the post above.

[steveromagnino]

It they wear the cloth of a monk you can wai them - they can not wai back. Normally this is done as they arrive and depart. But they will not be insulted if you fail to do so and your marriage should remain intact.

ok, a few things; as described above the monk not waiing back is because they are considered to be of higher status; so therefore not necessary to wai; which is why even the royal family will wai a Monk but not expect a wai back. So...this even extends to young boys who are in the robes of a monk; they will also command the respect of a monk; irrespective of their age.

Even though they are of very high status, they also are not bound by tradition or ritual, so you can smile and talk to them normally, and often you may learn something in the process. however, as a person, you are lower in status than them, so to show respect, as outlined above there are some things you can do.

The dipping your head is a sign of respect for ANYONE; it surprises me a bit that some foreigners would notice this yet others do not; whenever walking past a group through their line of sight, OR passing behind someone while others are looking; it is customary to at least make the effort to appear to lower the head; remember the head is the highest point of the body in status (i.e. POM) and therefore, you are showing you respect enough to at least appear to lower the head.

For the exact same reason, you NEVER step over people, or even step over someone's back as you pass behind them; better to say 'kor toet' and indicate you wish to pass than to step over someone or even over their legs; this being the exact opposite; that the feet are the lowest status part of the body and thus it is insulting to do so. ANd for the same reason, this is why you do not sit cross legged or with feet pointing at anyone, least of all a monk.

For sitting, typically, as a person of lower status you should sit lower than the monk. If you wish to take a photo, have sore legs or whatever, you can sit at the same level, but best to apologise to them first and wai them to indicate that you are sorry for doing so; they will understand; that's half the point of being a monk is to understand more about what is going on around them. Best to sit on the floor with legs tucked to one side, or sit on your shins (sorry don't know how to explain this). During the ceremony, it is normal to wai at certain times during prayers and it is acceptable to walk in walk out, although generally people will wai each time they exit. Sitting cross legged like the monks is generally not done.

Best to sit nearer the back so you can see what others are doing, although as the owner of the house you may be expected to sit near the front.

During some blessings the monks will also sprinkle holy water over you; during times like this you should wai. It isn't a serious sad time, it is a happy time; so smile and enjoy it; try to think about what is going on, what you feel, what opportunities await for you and your family and business or whatever; feel grateful and good because this is generally the start of a new part of your life.

It is appropriate to assist in preparing the food and serving the food to the monks; let them eat first in peace; again observing not to step over their food, any of their things and certainly not any of them. When serving or passing, the formal way is to use the right hand, with the left hand supporting the right elbow, or both hands. Don't flick stuff to people - actually this is for every aspect of Thai passing things to people in a semi formal situation; I HATE how some people chuck things around, especially books and items of value; if you value it, or if you think the person receiving will value something, then pass it with the respect it deserves!

For repeating prayers, you can try to repeat and memorise, but not problem if you cannot; just saying sartu at the end (like an amen) is enough. If you are a Christian, then perhaps best to understand that (at least IMHO) you are praying to yourself to receive the things that you wish; you are wishing for things to happen, Buddha himself was a man; a role model; you are not necessarily praying to another god. but if you don't wish to do this and are worried about going to hel_l, then perhaps you can go and help prepare food and drinks and whatever to help.

As far as I am concerned, if you are lucky enough to have someone organise the ceremony or have arranged it yourself, you should make the effort to at least have a vague idea of what is going on. Many Thai people are unsure themselves, as it is not a common thing to do, and sometimes the etiquette is a bit unclear. no problem, do your best and have a smile and enjoy!

There are some basic language differences in addressing monks and also in describing them; for example they are not kon (people); however even this will be forgiven if somehow you haven't managed to learn Thai; a simple apology that you cannot really speak Thai, then just say what you want to say, and they will figure it out. However, best to make sure they and the people around you know that you are not trying to insult them by referring to them for instance as have those people over there finished chowing down; rather than have those monks over there eaten yet.... like in english if you met royalty or something.

[pumpuiman]

Thanks for the info here....I'll be doing the house blessing soon, and like the OP, getting info from my wife is like pulling teeth soetimes!!

[tutsiwarrior]

didn't expect the thread to turn into a discussion of general monk/falang ettiquet but thanks to all, all the same...

I just wanna go thru the motions without embarrassing my family...the ceremony could have tremendous significance but my take is that the blessing simply conveys good luck on the household and maybe prosperity,...if that's in order. Like a lot of falangs I am inured (manured?) in the judeo-christian tradition that has no ritual for blessing a new house...births, weddings and funerals I can handle. Except for the water bit where I have to directly participate I'll hang back and let the wife handle things.

I was concerned about the monks and dealings with them...is there custom and solemnity involved or is it 'say dude...how's it hangin'?. I was married inna church in Dublin once and the priest encouraged informality except when it came to exchanging vows...not so in the present circumstances, it appears...

I'll keep my head down and hope for the best...(gotta get my tie dry cleaned...)

[old wanderer]

It they wear the cloth of a monk you can wai them - they can not wai back. Normally this is done as they arrive and depart. But they will not be insulted if you fail to do so and your marriage should remain intact.

ok, a few things; as described above the monk not waiing back is because they are considered to be of higher status; so therefore not necessary to wai; which is why even the royal family will wai a Monk but not expect a wai back. So...this even extends to young boys who are in the robes of a monk; they will also command the respect of a monk; irrespective of their age.

Even though they are of very high status, they also are not bound by tradition or ritual, so you can smile and talk to them normally, and often you may learn something in the process. however, as a person, you are lower in status than them, so to show respect, as outlined above there are some things you can do.

The dipping your head is a sign of respect for ANYONE; it surprises me a bit that some foreigners would notice this yet others do not; whenever walking past a group through their line of sight, OR passing behind someone while others are looking; it is customary to at least make the effort to appear to lower the head; remember the head is the highest point of the body in status (i.e. POM) and therefore, you are showing you respect enough to at least appear to lower the head.

For the exact same reason, you NEVER step over people, or even step over someone's back as you pass behind them; better to say 'kor toet' and indicate you wish to pass than to step over someone or even over their legs; this being the exact opposite; that the feet are the lowest status part of the body and thus it is insulting to do so. ANd for the same reason, this is why you do not sit cross legged or with feet pointing at anyone, least of all a monk.

For sitting, typically, as a person of lower status you should sit lower than the monk. If you wish to take a photo, have sore legs or whatever, you can sit at the same level, but best to apologise to them first and wai them to indicate that you are sorry for doing so; they will understand; that's half the point of being a monk is to understand more about what is going on around them. Best to sit on the floor with legs tucked to one side, or sit on your shins (sorry don't know how to explain this). During the ceremony, it is normal to wai at certain times during prayers and it is acceptable to walk in walk out, although generally people will wai each time they exit. Sitting cross legged like the monks is generally not done.

Best to sit nearer the back so you can see what others are doing, although as the owner of the house you may be expected to sit near the front.

During some blessings the monks will also sprinkle holy water over you; during times like this you should wai. It isn't a serious sad time, it is a happy time; so smile and enjoy it; try to think about what is going on, what you feel, what opportunities await for you and your family and business or whatever; feel grateful and good because this is generally the start of a new part of your life.

It is appropriate to assist in preparing the food and serving the food to the monks; let them eat first in peace; again observing not to step over their food, any of their things and certainly not any of them. When serving or passing, the formal way is to use the right hand, with the left hand supporting the right elbow, or both hands. Don't flick stuff to people - actually this is for every aspect of Thai passing things to people in a semi formal situation; I HATE how some people chuck things around, especially books and items of value; if you value it, or if you think the person receiving will value something, then pass it with the respect it deserves!

For repeating prayers, you can try to repeat and memorise, but not problem if you cannot; just saying sartu at the end (like an amen) is enough. If you are a Christian, then perhaps best to understand that (at least IMHO) you are praying to yourself to receive the things that you wish; you are wishing for things to happen, Buddha himself was a man; a role model; you are not necessarily praying to another god. but if you don't wish to do this and are worried about going to hel_l, then perhaps you can go and help prepare food and drinks and whatever to help.

As far as I am concerned, if you are lucky enough to have someone organise the ceremony or have arranged it yourself, you should make the effort to at least have a vague idea of what is going on. Many Thai people are unsure themselves, as it is not a common thing to do, and sometimes the etiquette is a bit unclear. no problem, do your best and have a smile and enjoy!

There are some basic language differences in addressing monks and also in describing them; for example they are not kon (people); however even this will be forgiven if somehow you haven't managed to learn Thai; a simple apology that you cannot really speak Thai, then just say what you want to say, and they will figure it out. However, best to make sure they and the people around you know that you are not trying to insult them by referring to them for instance as have those people over there finished chowing down; rather than have those monks over there eaten yet.... like in english if you met royalty or something.

steveromagnino:

Thank you so much for taking the time to explain all above. My wife says you are very good man and your wife should be very happy a falang has taken the time to understand Thai culture.

Some times when I read post from this board to her she gets really angry at "stupid falang" especially about sin sod.

I was unaware about sitting crosslegged like the monks, as I did this at a blessing cerimony before we got married, as it was the most comfortable position and I learned it many years ago doing martial art classes.

As we are building a home, and buying a car, there are 2 ceremonies I know of comming up, so will practice sitting on my shins. Also about passing food.....done that but maybe not as politely as you have described.....If nobody every explains this stuff to you, then you just never know....

Thanks again, (and you have made an admirer of my wife for you understanding).

[steveromagnino]

steveromagnino:

Thank you so much for taking the time to explain all above. My wife says you are very good man and your wife should be very happy a falang has taken the time to understand Thai culture.

Thanks again, (and you have made an admirer of my wife for you understanding).

thanks for your kind words OW; and pass my regards on to your lovely wife for her nice words.

Sadly, I am not married, despite my unbelieveably attractive good looks, high paying job and formidable pet cat. In fact, the reason I know some of this stuff is due to being born to a Thai mum; who although growing up her whole life almost overseas, still remembered to teach me a few things. That, combined with making mistakes left right and centre has proven the truth to the phrase 'trial and error'; lots of errors from me, proves to be a trial for anyone around me :-) I am one of the fabled 'look kreung' where a fair bit of good luck has fallen into my lap.

However, anyone willing to make the effort will discover that if they are lucky (as it sounds you are), someone nearby loves you enough to continue teaching the best way to do things; be it speaking Thai, following certain customs or whatever. And if we are lucky enough to have such a person, surely we should treat them and others around us with the respect we wish they would show us.

There are many members of boards like this that believe they can operate outside the boundaries of Thai customs; that Thai customs and language are pointless, stupid and unnecessary; that they can get by without them and in some cases they even insist their wives or children only speak english and so on. To me that is like being a vegan. Sure....a person can do it (and drive everyone in the vinicinity nuts with trying to cater to look after you, but aren't you missing out on some of the best (and worst) life has to offer by restricting yourself so much? To not learn Thai yet live here would seem to me to require more effort than simply just learning it once and for all.

All the best old wanderer. :-)