Consulate warns of US protests over failure to retrieve students’ bodies

[rijb]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

Far as I gather, if a private firm was to be engaged, then it would have to include insurance (which will cover possible rescue of rescue team). Whether such a hypothetical rescue operation will be carried out by official or private operators is another issue. There will be some sort of waver signed beforehand, and probably a guarantee will be required.

That makes sense.  

 

I was a member of a helicopter rescue team, in the military.  No two rescues are the same.  But, it helps to know the terrain.  I would trust the locals, instead of outsiders.

[sweatalot]

6 hours ago, rkidlad said:

....

Thailand must understand American culture and respect it. As much as you'd like Thailand to let their own people in, we are not children and this isn't about pride. Lives are not pawns in some silly egotistical game. 

Sometimes I think that most Thais don't understand any other culture nor do they respect it.

[Jingthing]

Just now, sweatalot said:

Sometimes I think that most Thais don't understand any other culture nor do they respect it.

Could say that about a lot of nations, but right now, as the USA elected an "America First" isolationist I don't think there is much moral ground available to criticize Thailand's narrow views. 

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Could say that about a lot of nations, but right now, as the USA elected an "America First" isolationist I don't think there is much moral ground available to criticize Thailand's narrow views. 

Thailand first been around for ages, (or since I first understood that I will always be charged more than the locals for most things)

[Tony125]

12 hours ago, steven100 said:

Well really,  is it so damn hard to fly a chopper their and hook the car on and retrieve it all in one move  ?    don't seem like rocket science to me.

Take a look at the vids , a chopper might risk its blades hitting the walls of the canyon it is very narrow. Secondly, they would have to lower men to tie on cables and in that cold very fast moving water (can't stand in  it) it would be very dangerous. Also just securing the car wouldn't mean the bodies would remain inside when pulled up. The bodies need to be removed the car can actually stay there.

[tbryant15]

Well really,  is it so damn hard to fly a chopper their and hook the car on and retrieve it all in one move  ?    don't seem like rocket science to me.

With your grammatical errors in your post, I'm not surprised you don't understand why they are hesitant on retrieving the car and bodies..

If the two were alive, I can see the rescue teams more proactive in this situation. But they aren't. Glad to know the Thais are eager to risk lives of other people's children to recover already dead bodies of their children. The group is only going to retrieve it when they are 100 percent sure it is risk free.


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[USPatriot]

Take the protesters out to have them retrieve the bodies, when they are faced with death they will change their minds

[Mrjlh]

After doing rescue for 20 years I'm semi retired on this subject but still teach technical rescue to the locals here.  I've been in Kings Canyon for swift water rescue courses. I also taught  "Short Haul Helicopter" rescue. If they had been alive then the circumstances would be different. Falling 500 feet into cold water, the victims most likely died instantly or within minutes. I posted to the original thread as to why I felt the recovery was dangerous and difficult.  When people don't assess the situation correctly, rescuers get hurt or die.:

 

 

[SABloke]

13 hours ago, steven100 said:

Well really,  is it so damn hard to fly a chopper their and hook the car on and retrieve it all in one move  ?    don't seem like rocket science to me.

I'm not a helicopter expert, but I have an ounce of common sense. I would imagine if it was so easy, they would've done it by now. I've seen videos of helicopters in turbulent conditions and they are unstable at best/in a ball of fire at worst - I can imagine that as soon as the car lost contact with the river bed it would suddenly become a floating dead weight which would be pulled rapidly in one direction and the chopper would follow course and crash (or have to release the car and then all the Thai and ignorant more than Thai foreigners would be  in arms over the incompetence of the rescue team)

[gk10002000]

15 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Wonder how the Thai govt would react if the USA consulate here, supported and encouraged protests in Thailand? 

Or sent over trained forensic people, proper detectives, investigator, etc. for all the suspicious foreign deaths

 

That part of California is very rough terrain.  I presume they have verified the bodies are still in the car, although I can't tell from the articles.  The water is swift and the bodies could be anywhere by now and one just has to wait for them to show up.  As for recovery, yes there are many ways possible.  Heavy lift helicopter if there is enough flight clearance and the winds and weather are favorable.  Ground resources to secure the car, possible.

[wakeupplease]

9 hours ago, Jingthing said:

If they want to protest, then protest.

People shouldn't be afraid of protest anywhere. 

It's healthy. 

Taking more risks than are needed to retrieve bodies, not so healthy. 

Would be a good Idea for immigration to turn up also and check their Visa's

 

Thais think of those little canyons on the side of many thai roads and do not realise just how high this one is or what cold water can do to a human in seconds.

 

But if they do not like the way the USA carries out its safety rescue work (Waiting for this) You do not have to visit or stay here GO HOME or stop moaning.

[Nord X]

I have been following this operation closely and it certainly appears that the US recovery team are out of their depth due to only very basic training and minimal understanding of deep ravine and cliff side rescue/recovery techniques. If this had happened in one of the Nordic countries, the UK or most other Western European countries then the recovery would no doubt have been quick, efficient and relatively safe. The frustration of the Thai in this case are very understandable, the US should ask for help if they are unable to manage the task themselves, maybe it is a cost thing? California is bankrupt, perhaps it's showing here.

[wakeupplease]

10 minutes ago, Nord X said:

I have been following this operation closely and it certainly appears that the US recovery team are out of their depth due to only very basic training and minimal understanding of deep ravine and cliff side rescue/recovery techniques. If this had happened in one of the Nordic countries, the UK or most other Western European countries then the recovery would no doubt have been quick, efficient and relatively safe. The frustration of the Thai in this case are very understandable, the US should ask for help if they are unable to manage the task themselves, maybe it is a cost thing? California is bankrupt, perhaps it's showing here.

The UK would not risk a life on this it would take the time it took and that is the end of it.

 

US recovery team are out of their depth due to only very basic training and minimal understanding of deep ravine.

 

Yes they do not have deep ravines do they so no experience of this type of rescue. I do not expect you to remember the Grand Canyon being closed to tourists when a murder was on the loose there do you?

 

Heath and safety in many countries is not just a white and green sign on a gate it exists for a reason and works unlike here.

Edited August 11, 2017 by wakeupplease

[Nord X]

3 minutes ago, wakeupplease said:

The UK would not risk a life on this it would take the time it took and that is the end of it.

If they had got some UK mountain rescue operators over there to consult with them they would have the job done by now.

[wakeupplease]

1 minute ago, Nord X said:

If they had got some UK mountain rescue operators over there to consult with them they would have the job done by now.

The UK does not have canyons like that so will never know.

 

What I think is most people feel is fly a chopper in wrap a rope pull it out easy when in fact you have to get people down a cliff and across the Very cold water and I mean cold 30 seconds and you have had it, the pain is unbelievable, then to add to the problem that car is full of water which may double or triple the weight. Also take into account the wind pushing the chopper into the cliffs so possible 4 more deaths there.

 

Problem is some want it done yesterday as always and do not care about other peoples lives as here they are worth jack S>>>.

[Jingthing]

I have been following this operation closely and it certainly appears that the US recovery team are out of their depth due to only very basic training and minimal understanding of deep ravine and cliff side rescue/recovery techniques. If this had happened in one of the Nordic countries, the UK or most other Western European countries then the recovery would no doubt have been quick, efficient and relatively safe. The frustration of the Thai in this case are very understandable, the US should ask for help if they are unable to manage the task themselves, maybe it is a cost thing? California is bankrupt, perhaps it's showing here.

California is not bankrupt.

[Reigntax]

I hope the Thai rescue team apply for a US working permit first!!!

[BuckBee]

Thai rescue efforts are pretty appalling, only reason they get stuff done is as not as complex as this scenario plus absolute no concern of working safety for rescue workers. As the pair are already brown bread dead it not exactly a major rush scenario and not killing more people is a major concern ... when look at the amount of tourist found dead in bizarre cases in thailand with obscure facts makes me think some high-so family getting usually bitchy when can't control things how they like and got no grasp of the real world, amazing how good thais are at driving off roads into ditches etc :-/ feel free to protest, least can do that legally in US of A lol .

 

Edited August 11, 2017 by BuckBee

[inThailand]

Protesting in the USA is not the same as LOS, authorities don't give in to an angry group with silly demands.

[Mrjlh]

A few reasons why Helicopters aren't always the perfect choice for rescue or recovery. Unless you are really dense, you should be able to easily understand the safety issues with a helicopter. 

 

[Dipterocarp]

Whoever said the helicopter just lowers rescuers who hook a cable to it and fly away have no idea what they are talking about. Men on the ground have to fully asses the wreckage and secure and prepare it for movement(ensure it is freed from obstructions) prior to longline operations.

 

Helicopters have performance limitations. They can't just pull on something until it moves. They have to be operated in a way that allows for cable drop and egress in case of trouble. Difficult in a canyon maybe?

 

They are very unstable in winds and turbulence also

The risky things you see with rescues on the high seas would not be attempted to remove wreckage and or human remains.

 

 

[Nord X]

16 hours ago, Jingthing said:

California is not bankrupt.

All but in name.

 

[Jingthing]

29 minutes ago, Nord X said:

All but in name.

 

If the actual meaning of words don't matter to you and you prefer inhabiting some kind of bizarro world alternative facts fake reality, then you're right. (You'd have a lot of company these days.)

 

Edited August 12, 2017 by Jingthing

[tbryant15]

All but in name.
 

Stop. A deficit does not mean bankrupt. You obviously have a bias against the state of California for whatever reason.


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[poohy]

On 8/11/2017 at 10:26 AM, HiSoLowSoNoSo said:

“If this accident happened in Thailand, Thai rescuers would be able to get the bodies within 12 hours, no matter how bad the weather was. They would not have to use a helicopter,” he said.

 

When they lost 3 helicopters in one week in Keang Krachang National Park comes to mind.  

i understand your sarcasm

 

Here of course  it would be labelled as farangs....suicide... case closed ..let them stay there 

Thais that are demanding rescuers  risk their lives are stupid and ignorant sorry and have an over inflated  sense of worth

 

Actually they just thais who think the world revolves around them

[BangkokNicky]

[Dave67]

18 hours ago, Reigntax said:

I hope the Thai rescue team apply for a US working permit first!!!

Facebook ad has questionnaire to see if your eligible for a green card, they should try that first

[Dave67]

9 hours ago, Mrjlh said:

A few reasons why Helicopters aren't always the perfect choice for rescue or recovery. Unless you are really dense, you should be able to easily understand the safety issues with a helicopter. 

 

 Hard to measure the Turbulence between the cliffs.before you are in it.

[maxpower]

23 minutes ago, BangkokNicky said:

You mean like when you grab control of an Airbus A380.

[wakeupplease]

4 hours ago, Dipterocarp said:

Whoever said the helicopter just lowers rescuers who hook a cable to it and fly away have no idea what they are talking about. Men on the ground have to fully asses the wreckage and secure and prepare it for movement(ensure it is freed from obstructions) prior to longline operations.

 

Helicopters have performance limitations. They can't just pull on something until it moves. They have to be operated in a way that allows for cable drop and egress in case of trouble. Difficult in a canyon maybe?

 

They are very unstable in winds and turbulence also

The risky things you see with rescues on the high seas would not be attempted to remove wreckage and or human remains.

 

 

Hey come on stop trying to tell that to a thai pilot, he knows better than you and I. I would love to see a couple of the local rescue teams go over and 10 seconds after they put their feet in the water what they would say then as the circulation of the feet stops frostbite sets in and then off to the local hospital to have their feet cut off. live and Learn boys Live and learn.