Thinking of moving to Isaan

[wildewillie89]

2 hours ago, GarryP said:

But you are not in that demographic so is your sole excuse that your wife can speak English? You are a young man on a new journey in your life. Shouldn't you be able to understand what your daughter is saying as she starts to learn the language. A perfect opportunity for you to learn too.

The assumption being that she will not be taught English? That I do not interact with her on a daily basis? That she is not of an age where were brain is still being wired? 

Again, I have no issues with naturally learning the language, as I have said many times. However, the time spent to learn the language at a competent enough level, that I will see some actual use for, I can see far better uses for to further develop my children...rather than myself. Those conversations I have with Thai people speak a sufficient enough level of English. Which is fantastic. Seeing as the kid will be surrounded by Thai on a social level, it would be counter productive as a bilingual student if I solely spoke Thai to her at a home level. 

Everyone obviously has different experiences/needs of course. 

Edited August 25, 2017 by wildewillie89

[GarryP]

12 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

Can't be bothered  -  futile.

 

Any Farang who is vaguely fluent in Thai is treated with mistrust and the language quickly moves to Khmer (or Laos depending where you live).

 

I stick to ordering food & drink and occasional domestic purchases. Many Thais are often more comfortable if you just point.

 

 

Your mileage may vary, ignore these comments if your regular communication is with Hi-So Thais.

I have not found that at all. If they are locals in the northeast, they would be speaking to each other in the local dialect rather than central Thai. So there would be no change from Thai to the local dialect.  In fact many of those who are able to speak central Thai would switch to Thai if there are non-locals present so everyone can join in the conversation.  

 

However, from reading TV, I have learned that the exception seems to be certain women who do not want their boyfriends/husbands to speak Thai. I find this extremely suspicious and would  never entertain a relationship with someone like this. They seem to have ulterior motives in keeping boyfriends/husbands ignorant, and it is certainly not for the benefit of their partner, much more mercenary reasons.  

[ray23]

k eep working until you have a retirement then make the move . Teaching salaries in Issan then Bangkok

[transam]

1 minute ago, GarryP said:

I have not found that at all. If they are locals in the northeast, they would be speaking to each other in the local dialect rather than central Thai. So there would be no change from Thai to the local dialect.  In fact many of those who are able to speak central Thai would switch to Thai if there are non-locals present so everyone can join in the conversation.  

 

However, from reading TV, I have learned that the exception seems to be certain women who do not want their boyfriends/husbands to speak Thai. I find this extremely suspicious and would  never entertain a relationship with someone like this. They seem to have ulterior motives in keeping boyfriends/husbands ignorant, and it is certainly not for the benefit of their partner, much more mercenary reasons.  

Not necessarily, most times when we go out somewhere the women all sit together to waffle, most of the waffle is about their or another farang/lady. Mrs.Trans is rather pissed off with it so one of the reasons we don't go out much. So my conclusion is a lot of birds don't particularly like the farang understanding their waffle..

Turning it around, I have seen birds who understand English blatantly ear wigging farang chat...

[todlad]

16 minutes ago, wildewillie89 said:

I really don't have any issues with people who speak Thai, the issues is the expectations they feel they need to place on other members to learn it. Like I said, I have learnt some Thai. I am at a point now where I can understand basic Thai. However, the importance placed on members by other members to learn a level of Thai that is not that easy for many, I believe, is unjustified in today's society. To the members who have, fantastic, but it is not necessarily for the majority. It is why I likened it to the Pink ID, as many love that issue as well. Sure, it can help some people, but the majority get by just fine without it. 

As far as the immersion method, there is such a thing as 'difficulties' for some - numerous studies based around second language and brain MRI scans. Take the Australian Federal Police for example. Groups of officers go into full immersion mode and they pick the best officers to travel to the countries they need to go to. Some people pick it up easily, others fail miserably as one of my old tutors did. 

Seeing as it was the electoral commission that made the comments at the time regarding the level of Thai conversation required (re referendum), I don't think it necessarily extends to the people I hang out with. It was purely an issue that the department faced and recognised the country had failed its people in terms of education. 

But if we are to bring that up then one only needs to look at the international and national test scores. Thai students on average pass 1 in 5 exams. They do not score well on things like international PISA rankings (test is conducted in native languages). Unfortunately, that is one reason why the country is divided. The 'hiso' crowd do get some sort of structure in education, the rest do not - so even naturally gifted students sadly are failed unless put through a structured education. All it takes is a visit to the local school to see that. 

I think my views are not necessarily distorted, seeing as it deemed as a constant issue by various departments. I feel the level of Thai most farang can speak is just incredibly basic - which can only serve them so much depending on what they want to achieve. 

There is another factor here: it's what I call the "what did he say?" issue.

I speak almost no Thai and part of the reason is that whenever I try I am usually faced with laughter, blank stares or I am forced to repeat myself two or more times.

 

Of course, I could be total crap at speaking Thai so I get myself tested by saying what causes mirth and bewilderment to someone else and ask them to interpret what I just said and assess it on a scale of understanding ...

 

A very good example comes when I try to give our 1 Card number in Thai at TOPS. I have learned it perfectly and can say it clearly but it is very common for the check out operator to stumble when I try!

 

I accept the point about independence as perfectly fair and I have learned a lot more Russian by living over there than I ever will learn Thai, I am sure. For all of their faults, the Russians are more tolerant of a linguistic oaf like me and I happily did my shopping, travelling on buses and the metro there and could have basic conversations in all sorts of situations.

 

When I am out and about on my own here, my tactic is usually to start talking to someone in English and see what happens ... sometimes I am pleasantly surprised. I did this in Beijing a few years ago: as I am wont to do, I got lost coming out of a metro station, hopelessly lost. I walked over to a bus stop and just said loudly, does anyone here speak English. A young lady did and she solved my problem!

[Jip99]

15 minutes ago, GarryP said:

I have not found that at all. If they are locals in the northeast, they would be speaking to each other in the local dialect rather than central Thai. So there would be no change from Thai to the local dialect.  In fact many of those who are able to speak central Thai would switch to Thai if there are non-locals present so everyone can join in the conversation.  

 

However, from reading TV, I have learned that the exception seems to be certain women who do not want their boyfriends/husbands to speak Thai. I find this extremely suspicious and would  never entertain a relationship with someone like this. They seem to have ulterior motives in keeping boyfriends/husbands ignorant, and it is certainly not for the benefit of their partner, much more mercenary reasons.  

 

We are all limited by the knowledge of our experiences and yours is evidenced above.

 

 

Not had a problem in 11 years and my partner's family often switch between Thai and Khmer in daily conversation.Depends where you live; we have a neighbouring village where Laos is spoken.

[wildewillie89]

4 minutes ago, todlad said:

There is another factor here: it's what I call the "what did he say?" issue.

I speak almost no Thai and part of the reason is that whenever I try I am usually faced with laughter, blank stares or I am forced to repeat myself two or more times.

 

Of course, I could be total crap at speaking Thai so I get myself tested by saying what causes mirth and bewilderment to someone else and ask them to interpret what I just said and assess it on a scale of understanding ...

 

A very good example comes when I try to give our 1 Card number in Thai at TOPS. I have learned it perfectly and can say it clearly but it is very common for the check out operator to stumble when I try!

 

I accept the point about independence as perfectly fair and I have learned a lot more Russian by living over there than I ever will learn Thai, I am sure. For all of their faults, the Russians are more tolerant of a linguistic oaf like me and I happily did my shopping, travelling on buses and the metro there and could have basic conversations in all sorts of situations.

 

When I am out and about on my own here, my tactic is usually to start talking to someone in English and see what happens ... sometimes I am pleasantly surprised. I did this in Beijing a few years ago: as I am wont to do, I got lost coming out of a metro station, hopelessly lost. I walked over to a bus stop and just said loudly, does anyone here speak English. A young lady did and she solved my problem!

It is a tone language, so it is difficult for many. Just more added variables than something like learning Japanese. That is why I said many Thai do not necessarily understand when farang speak as the tones are all wrong, they just get the understanding from context. 

[GarryP]

37 minutes ago, wildewillie89 said:

The assumption being that she will not be taught English? That I do not interact with her on a daily basis? That she is not of an age where were brain is still being wired? 

Again, I have no issues with naturally learning the language, as I have said many times. However, the time spent to learn the language at a competent enough level, that I will see some actual use for, I can see far better uses for to further develop my children...rather than myself. Those conversations I have with Thai people speak a sufficient enough level of English. Which is fantastic. Seeing as the kid will be surrounded by Thai on a social level, it would be counter productive as a bilingual student if I solely spoke Thai to her at a home level. 

Everyone obviously has different experiences/needs of course. 

My assumption was that living in Thailand and being a Thai, your daughter will also learn Thai. Also she will most probably speak Thai with her mother so wouldn't it be good to understand what she is saying to others. About speaking Thai with you daughter, you are spot on. Speak to her only in English. It will greatly enhance her language ability. I am speaking from experience here as I royally effed up on this. My wife only spoke Thai so the only language spoken at home was Thai, and rather than bouncing from Thai to English with my son, I spoke only Thai. As a result my son is not bilingual, although he does have reasonable language skills. I will never forgive myself for this. 

Edited August 25, 2017 by GarryP

[Jip99]

1 minute ago, GarryP said:

My assumption was that living in Thailand and being a Thai, your daughter will also learn Thai. Also she will most probably speak Thai with her mother so wouldn't it be good to understand what she is saying to others. About speaking Thai with you daughter, you are spot on. Speak to her only in English. It will greatly enhance her language ability. I am speaking from experience here as I royally effed up on this. My wife only spoke Thai so the only language spoken at home was Thai, and rather than bouncing from Thai to English with my son, I spoke only Thai. As a result my son is not bilingual, although he does has reasonable language skills. I will never forgive myself for this. 

 

Excellent point.

 

I think it is worth mentioning that Thais will have a higher expectation of a Luk Krung and the ability to speak English well would be part of that.

 

It is obviously a distinct advantage in the world of employment to be genuinely bi-lingual. I met a Luk Krung once at a car hire firm in Chiang Mai - his English was better than mine and he was clearly confident in his dealings with westerners.

[wildewillie89]

3 minutes ago, GarryP said:

My assumption was that living in Thailand and being a Thai, your daughter will also learn Thai. Also she will most probably speak Thai with her mother so wouldn't it be good to understand what she is saying to others. About speaking Thai with you daughter, you are spot on. Speak to her only in English. It will greatly enhance her language ability. I am speaking from experience here as I royally effed up on this. My wife only spoke Thai so the only language spoken at home was Thai, and rather than bouncing from Thai to English with my son, I spoke only Thai. As a result my son is not bilingual, although he does has reasonable language skills. I will never forgive myself for this. 

We do not speak Thai in the house. As it is counter productive. She is surrounded by Thai with the family during the day whilst we are at work, and English at our home in the evenings after work. Of course, the Mrs will help her with the fundamentals, but yes, we speak English at home.

Ah, yes, your situation is completely different so I can fully understand your thinking now.

[transam]

The only Thai/Lao spoken in our hooose is when there is a wagging finger behind it, and it ain't mine...

[JLCrab]

A lot of people put animated gifs in everything they write but most give up after reaching the age of 12.

[todlad]

1 hour ago, GarryP said:

My assumption was that living in Thailand and being a Thai, your daughter will also learn Thai. Also she will most probably speak Thai with her mother so wouldn't it be good to understand what she is saying to others. About speaking Thai with you daughter, you are spot on. Speak to her only in English. It will greatly enhance her language ability. I am speaking from experience here as I royally effed up on this. My wife only spoke Thai so the only language spoken at home was Thai, and rather than bouncing from Thai to English with my son, I spoke only Thai. As a result my son is not bilingual, although he does have reasonable language skills. I will never forgive myself for this. 

There are pressures everywhere to ensure a child can speak to its parents and its grand parents. Nothing wrong with that.

 

I met a Brit here with two children who cannot speak to them because they only speak Thai; he lives here all of the time too and cannot speak Thai.

 

I felt my in laws wanted to crowd me and my English out so we moved away from them. Good move. The Granny used to "kidnap" the daughter  and teach her all sorts of village girl rubbish.

 

Our doctor told my Mrs that our daughter would be confused by learning two languages. She didn't say that to me. I ignored that advice, of course ... I thought it was uneducated and xenophobic. 

Over two years and two months in and our daughter is as bilingual as she can be and it becomes obvious that as far as she is concerned she is learning one language not two. However, she has known for a while that she speaks English to me and Thai to her mother and relatives.

 

The lesson you learned is a valid one: just talk to your baby and s/he will eventually talk back to you whatever the language.

 

By the way, it's not too late to enhance your son's English skills.

[transam]

Just now, JLCrab said:

A lot of people put animated gifs in everything they write but most give up after reaching the age of 12.

Some folk get miserable when they get older too eh....

[GarryP]

18 minutes ago, todlad said:

There are pressures everywhere to ensure a child can speak to its parents and its grand parents. Nothing wrong with that.

 

I met a Brit here with two children who cannot speak to them because they only speak Thai; he lives here all of the time too and cannot speak Thai.

 

I felt my in laws wanted to crowd me and my English out so we moved away from them. Good move. The Granny used to "kidnap" the daughter  and teach her all sorts of village girl rubbish.

 

Our doctor told my Mrs that our daughter would be confused by learning two languages. She didn't say that to me. I ignored that advice, of course ... I thought it was uneducated and xenophobic. 

Over two years and two months in and our daughter is as bilingual as she can be and it becomes obvious that as far as she is concerned she is learning one language not two. However, she has known for a while that she speaks English to me and Thai to her mother and relatives.

 

The lesson you learned is a valid one: just talk to your baby and s/he will eventually talk back to you whatever the language.

 

By the way, it's not too late to enhance your son's English skills.

He's 28 now and we no longer live in the same house.  Luckily he does not hold it against me. 

[JLCrab]

56 minutes ago, transam said:

Some folk get miserable when they get older too eh....

I know -- that 's why they feel the need to put animated GIFs in everything they write as they afraid they might otherwise be not getting their point across. Most others on this entire forum seem to feel a reasonable command of the English language is suffiicent.

Edited August 25, 2017 by JLCrab

[transam]

4 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

I know -- that 's why they feel the need to put animated GIFs in everything they write as they afraid they might otherwise be not getting their point across.

Absolutely, at last you got something right....

[JLCrab]

You know I have no problem with anything you say but I find those stupid GIFs so obnoxious that I may put a block on your posts -- you may say that you don't care but you seem to have a good time playing with my stuff so you'll have to find someone else.

[transam]

6 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

You know I have no problem with anything you say but I find those stupid GIFs so obnoxious that I may put a block on your posts -- you may say that you don't care but you seem to have a good time playing with my stuff so you'll have to find someone else.

Someone else......?

I answer posts to anyone the way l think l must reply, exactly the same as you do..

 

 

[JLCrab]

Like I said I have no problem with anything say even that I should (somehow) talk to people in North Korea. But those GIFs give me a headache and I wish you could use them at least less frequently.

[Kadilo]

A lot of people put animated gifs in everything they write but most give up after reaching the age of 12.

Don't forget the coffee, whistling, at the end of every quote. I'd say 10 is nearer the mark.


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[bornredi]

just move up there do not look for a lady live some where for 3 months then move do that for a year or 2 go slow cha cha 

[AGLV0121]

On 8/20/2017 at 7:40 PM, Guitar God said:

I hated never ever seeing the sun in the Netherlands, hated the fact it always started to rain two minutes after I decided  to go for a ride on my motorcycle. I see the sun here even during rainy season and when it rains it's warm and refreshing. 

 

 

You could have found the same in Greece. That's where I am heading to next. My lungs cannot get along with air pollution in the city here, or at any bus terminal. I need more standards.

Thailand's been good for a while and Thai gf follows me.

 

For the record, all this part of Europe, Croatia, Slovenia, Greece is affordable and clean. The fish I eat there (probably) does not contain the amount of mercury found here. 

 

Edited August 30, 2017 by AGLV0121

[transam]

7 minutes ago, AGLV0121 said:

 

You could have found the same in Greece. That's where I am heading to next. My lungs cannot get along with air pollution in the city here, or at any bus terminal. I need more standards.

Thailand's been good for a while and Thai gf follows me.

 

For the record, all this part of Europe, Croatia, Slovenia, Greece is affordable and clean. The fish I eat there (probably) does not contain the amount of mercury found here. 

 

You live in a Thai city...Which one...?

[AGLV0121]

BKK but close to the river. Acceptable. But when I travel to other cities, just a few minutes at Mochit II are like hell. Or Mukdahan, Nakhon Sawan, etc.

Of course if I take a taxi to and from the airport ...

[transam]

6 minutes ago, AGLV0121 said:

BKK but close to the river. Acceptable. But when I travel to other cities, just a few minutes at Mochit II are like hell. Or Mukdahan, Nakhon Sawan, etc.

Of course if I take a taxi to and from the airport ...

Where I live in LOS I no longer need a lung puffer that l had to use in London...

And I am not hidden away in the sticks......

[wildewillie89]

Air quality has probably declined from where I was back in Melbourne. That is mostly due to people 'burning off' more than anything else though.

On the most part that has tapered off a little bit, still happens, but I had a good whinge to the people in my immediate area when I first moved. The Mrs put in an educational project for the villagers also converting their green waste into compost. A lot better now, but still a long way to go. At least the immediate area is pretty good now. 

Edited August 30, 2017 by wildewillie89

[DILLIGAD]

Where I live in LOS I no longer need a lung puffer that l had to use in London...
And I am not hidden away in the sticks......

Ditto


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[AGLV0121]

20 hours ago, transam said:

lung puffer that l had to use in London

London is a bit of an extreme 

[transam]

41 minutes ago, AGLV0121 said:

London is a bit of an extreme 

Actually it was in the outskirts of London, but my point was that where l live now in LOS the air is OK. I went to Chiang Mai a few years back for a few days and my problem showed signs of rearing it's ugly head again, got back home and a few days later all OK...