Capital punishment not an effective deterrent, say experts

[worgeordie]

1 minute ago, Yinglove said:

How perfect is it for the wrongly convicted?

 

When a bit of sunlight is finally shone on the case of the 2 Burmese lads falsely convicted of the Koh Toa murders what can the state do?

 

If they are alive, they can release them and compensate with a decent sized payout.

If they have been executed??????

 

What about those that commit murder,do their time,only to be freed to commit another murder,so there

are two sides to every problem. Yes it happens.

regards worgeordie

[Yinglove]

Just now, shady86 said:

Paying with own life for taking someone's life is the only way to move forward. The safest countries in the world have capital punishment for drugsand murders.

Well, that's just not true.

Just four countries considered to be industrialised still execute criminals: the US, Japan, Singapore and Taiwan. 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/maps-and-graphics/countries-that-still-have-the-death-penalty/

 

Death penalty is for uncivilised tinpot countries

[Yinglove]

1 minute ago, worgeordie said:

What about those that commit murder,do their time,only to be freed to commit another murder,so there

are two sides to every problem. Yes it happens.

regards worgeordie

It doesn't happen if there is no death penalty.

[edwinchester]

http://www.newsweek.com/one-25-executed-us-innocent-study-claims-248889

 

4% of those executed or on death row innocent according to this study.

[BasalBanality]

9 minutes ago, Yinglove said:

Well, that's just not true.

Just four countries considered to be industrialised still execute criminals: the US, Japan, Singapore and Taiwan. 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/maps-and-graphics/countries-that-still-have-the-death-penalty/

 

Death penalty is for uncivilised tinpot countries

If Japan, Taiwan and Singapore are regarded as uncivilised tinpot nations, how would you describe Thailand?

[Yinglove]

Just now, BasalBanality said:

If Japan, Taiwan and Singapore are regarded as uncivilised tinpot nations, how would you describe Thailand?

They are the exceptions to the rule.

 

[Yinglove]

5 minutes ago, edwinchester said:

http://www.newsweek.com/one-25-executed-us-innocent-study-claims-248889

 

4% of those executed or on death row innocent according to this study.

That's in the US where there are extensive (and expensive) appeals processes.

How do you think the tinpot country's fare?

[BasalBanality]

4 minutes ago, Yinglove said:

They are the exceptions to the rule.

 

Being exceptions to the rule, much like how Thailand regards patronage with disregard to the law?

[Yinglove]

1 minute ago, BasalBanality said:

Being exceptions to the rule, much like how Thailand regards patronage with disregard to the law?

Not sure what Thai patronage has to do with death penalty.

Look at the map - would you be living in the red/yellow or the green?

Citizens clearly have more rights and freedoms and are safer in the green coloured country's than the others.

[trogers]

4 hours ago, Moonmoon said:

if Death Penalty is an effective deterrent then there shouldn't be any crimes committed at all for that particular punishment.

 

Don't get me wrong, I would sure want to bash the head in for any rapist murderer but would leave that to the justice system but would that really stop the crime?

 

More has to be done to educate and prevent crimes like this from happening. 

How much reoccurring crime  does a dead criminal commit?

 

The punishment does not deter the hot headed still living, but it does let those criminals a chance to be reincarnated and turn over a new leaf.

[4MyEgo]

I couldn't go on reading this crap, simple maths has been around for decades, i.e. 1 + 1 = 2, you kill someone, you die, i.e. 1 + 1 = 2, who cares what dreamed up statistics one has.

 

Sell hardcore drugs which will F up people's lives, death, take the risk for the $'s, "death" do the maths on that, if you knew that sellign hardcore drugs had an instance death sentence, I am sure you would think twice, that is unless your a F'n halwit which society wouldn't miss anyway.

 

There is always going to be people killing people, whether the law of death as a crime is a deter-ant or not, we ALL know one thing for certain, the offender will be dead, if you take a life, you should have yours taken, there can be no other way, this goes for dealing in hardcore drugs as well.

 

You cannot and should not want to even consider reeducating and putting these people back into the system, just take them out and keep doing it, the only thing effective is their death and that's the way it should be, not interested in anything else.

[Yinglove]

4 minutes ago, trogers said:

How much reoccurring crime  does a dead criminal commit?

The same amount as one held in a maximum security prison for life.

4 minutes ago, trogers said:

The punishment does not deter the hot headed still living, but it does let those criminals a chance to be reincarnated and turn over a new leaf.

The punishment does kill innocent people who cannot then be re-animated to resume living their innocent lives when their innocence is revealed.

[Yinglove]

1 minute ago, 4MyEgo said:

I couldn't go on reading this crap, simple maths has been around for decades, i.e. 1 + 1 = 2, you kill someone, you die, i.e. 1 + 1 = 2, who cares what dreamed up statistics one has.

 

Sell hardcore drugs which will F up people's lives, death, take the risk for the $'s, "death" do the maths on that, if you knew that sellign hardcore drugs had an instance death sentence, I am sure you would think twice, that is unless your a F'n halwit which society wouldn't miss anyway.

 

There is always going to be people killing people, whether the law of death as a crime is a deter-ant or not, we ALL know one thing for certain, the offender will be dead, if you take a life, you should have yours taken, there can be no other way, this goes for dealing in hardcore drugs as well.

 

You cannot and should not want to even consider reeducating and putting these people back into the system, just take them out and keep doing it, the only thing effective is their death and that's the way it should be, not interested in anything else.

And the 2 Burmese lads from Koh Toa?

 

Anyone considered eligible for the death penalty is not someone who is going to be getting parole, they are locked up for life - so your argument is false.

 

It appears you don't distinguish between 1st degree murder, 2nd degree murder, manslaughter .... 

[trogers]

2 minutes ago, Yinglove said:

The same amount as one held in a maximum security prison for life.

The punishment does kill innocent people who cannot then be re-animated to resume living their innocent lives when their innocence is revealed.

Then, you are raising the point about justice not being just. Nothing to do with whether capital punishment is correct for the crime.

 

I have not heard of any cases over the past 50 years in Malaysia and Singapore that executed criminals were innocent.

 

 

[BasalBanality]

Your exceptions of the rule, Japan, Taiwan and Singapore have relatively decent human rights and freedoms, their state of social stability and resilience to external influences seems to be doing relatively well.

 

I'm fortunate to have residency in one of the exceptions, it's a safe harbor.

Edited August 13, 2017 by BasalBanality

[Yinglove]

3 minutes ago, trogers said:

Then, you are raising the point about justice not being just. Nothing to do with whether capital punishment is correct for the crime.

 

I have not heard of any cases over the past 50 years in Malaysia and Singapore that executed criminals were innocent.

 

 

Ah, those bastions of press freedom.

 

Looks like you'll have to cut Malaysia from your list in the near future though.

 

http://indianexpress.com/article/world/malaysia-moves-closer-to-scrapping-mandatory-death-penalty-for-drug-traffickers-4786515/

[trogers]

1 minute ago, Yinglove said:

Ah, those bastions of press freedom.

 

Looks like you'll have to cut Malaysia from your list in the near future though.

 

http://indianexpress.com/article/world/malaysia-moves-closer-to-scrapping-mandatory-death-penalty-for-drug-traffickers-4786515/

It happens only if it happens.

 

I doubt it would happen. They are already struggling with an uptick in addiction.

[trogers]

15 minutes ago, BasalBanality said:

Your exceptions of the rule, Japan, Taiwan and Singapore have relatively decent human rights and freedoms, their state of social stability and resilience to external influences seems to be doing relatively well.

 

I'm fortunate to have residency in one of the exceptions, it's a safe harbor.

Don't know about other countries, but a Singapore court judge has to witness an execution by hanging. The purpose is to drill into court judges that their duties to dispense justice is a very serious one.

Edited August 13, 2017 by trogers

[BasalBanality]

7 minutes ago, trogers said:

Don't know about other countries, but a Singapore court judge has to witness an execution by hanging. The purpose is to drill into court judges that their duties to dispense justice is a very serious one.

It is a real pity they do not allow public viewing of the hanging. 

[Yinglove]

Just now, BasalBanality said:

It is a real pity they do not allow public viewing of the hanging. 

There is public viewing of capital punishment - if you're keen just relocate to Suadi Arabia.

 

[12DrinkMore]

17 minutes ago, Yinglove said:

Ah, those bastions of press freedom.

 

Looks like you'll have to cut Malaysia from your list in the near future though.

 

http://indianexpress.com/article/world/malaysia-moves-closer-to-scrapping-mandatory-death-penalty-for-drug-traffickers-4786515/

 

There is a movement to fundamentalism in Malaysia.

 

https://www.rt.com/news/344728-malaysia-sharia-law-bill/

 

Quote

The Malaysian government has pledged its support for an Islamic penal code seeking to expand the jurisdiction of Shariah law by introducing harsh punishments like amputations and stoning, shocking its predominantly multi-ethnic society.

 

Euphemistically referred to as "enhanced punishment". 

 

Quote

 

Prime Minister Najib sought to play the situation down, saying the bill was "misunderstood."

"It's not hudud, but what we refer to as enhanced punishment," he was quoted as saying by Reuters during a news conference after meeting leaders of his ruling United Malays National Organization (UMNO) party.

 

 

Malaysia is certainly not a civilised country, and is heading backwards 1,500 years. 

[BasalBanality]

2 minutes ago, Yinglove said:

There is public viewing of capital punishment - if you're keen just relocate to Suadi Arabia.

 

Perhaps a quick getaway, no need to relocate since air connectivity is rather convenient, all one needs now is for the public execution dates at Chop-chop Square in Deera, Riyadh to be made available on the internet.

[Pdaz]

Once convicted there is no chance of recidivism . So seems pretty effective to me. We could save millions by executing all the multiple murderers, rapists and terrorists. No point to burden the taxpayer with their upkeep. The one thing the World isn't short of is humans. One conviction - Jail.. Convicted again, - Bang, bang !

[gummy]

Here we go again.  So it may not be a good deterrent but it sure is the best way I know of to stop the person re-offending. 

[Yinglove]

1 minute ago, Pdaz said:

Once convicted there is no chance of recidivism . So seems pretty effective to me. We could save millions by executing all the multiple murderers, rapists and terrorists. No point to burden the taxpayer with their upkeep. The one thing the World isn't short of is humans. One conviction - Jail.. Convicted again, - Bang, bang !

And the wrongly convicted?

How do you undo the bang bang?

[Yinglove]

4 minutes ago, gummy said:

Here we go again.  So it may not be a good deterrent but it sure is the best way I know of to stop the person re-offending. 

Charles Manson was convict in 1971 and jailed - he is still alive in 2017 and hasn't killed anyone since 1971.

 

https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/innocence-list-those-freed-death-row

Edited August 13, 2017 by Yinglove

[BasalBanality]

5 minutes ago, 12DrinkMore said:

 

There is a movement to fundamentalism in Malaysia.

 

https://www.rt.com/news/344728-malaysia-sharia-law-bill/

 

 

Euphemistically referred to as "enhanced punishment". 

 

 

Malaysia is certainly not a civilised country, and is heading backwards 1,500 years. 

Cosying up with the House of Saud tends to leave one with the stench of Wahhabism.

[gummy]

3 minutes ago, Yinglove said:

And the wrongly convicted?

How do you undo the bang bang?

same as justifying collateral damage when bombing Iraq or Syria.  It is unfortunate but nonetheless the correct thing to do.  And Sure as hell corruption would stop pronto if the penalty for taking any bribe was termination

[Pdaz]

Just now, Yinglove said:

And the wrongly convicted?

How do you undo the bang bang?

DNA and forensic evidence is far more certain than previous methods of investigatione. If you re-read my post you will see I said death for second conviction. So rape once go to jail. Do it again, go to hell. It cases where there is irrefutable evidence of guilt. ie caught red handed or witnessed by many ( like in a terror attack ) I wouldn't even waste money on a trial. 

Most of the scum in jails have a long list of prior convictions and will never be "reformed" They have chosen to break the law and live outside of society. No pity or hand wringing needed just get rid of them 

[Yinglove]

5 minutes ago, gummy said:

same as justifying collateral damage when bombing Iraq or Syria.  It is unfortunate but nonetheless the correct thing to do.  And Sure as hell corruption would stop pronto if the penalty for taking any bribe was termination

Yep, it's merely unfortunate when it's a stranger being wrongly executed - bet  your opinion would be rather different if it were you with your neck in a noose.

 

Edited August 13, 2017 by Yinglove