White nationalist rally stopped in Virginia after factions clash

johnnyonesock · August 13, 2017

5 hours ago, mogandave said:

No, the war was with Germany. The German people elected Nazis to lead them, but the war was with Germany.

I think we're it not for the people of Germany, there would have been no Nazis and no WW2, but I could be wrong.

The German people elected a National Socialist Govt... Nazi – an insult in use long before the rise of Adolf Hitler's party. It was a derogatory term for a backwards peasant – being a shortened version of Ignatius, a common name in Bavaria, the area from which the Nazis emerged. Opponents seized on this and shortened the party's title Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, to the dismissive "Nazi"

RobFord · August 13, 2017

paranoid delusion at its best

Please explain yourself.

Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Opl · August 13, 2017

16 minutes ago, johnnyonesock said:

CHARLOTTESVILLE, Va. (Reuters) - White nationalists clashed with counter-demonstrators in Charlottesville, Virginia, on Saturday, prompting the governor to declare an emergency and stop a rally to protest the planned removal of a Confederate general from a public park.

The Divide and Conquer is strong with this one. George Soros is known to bus in Anti-fa to start violence and get legally planned rallies with a permit shut down

https://twitter.com/collinrees

Collin Rees‏ @collinrees : "Heroes. These students were surrounded by torch-bearing neo-Nazis, beaten, & unhelped by the police on scene. #Charlottesville #DefendCville"

Jingthing · August 13, 2017

13 minutes ago, johnnyonesock said:

The German people elected a National Socialist Govt... Nazi – an insult in use long before the rise of Adolf Hitler's party. It was a derogatory term for a backwards peasant – being a shortened version of Ignatius, a common name in Bavaria, the area from which the Nazis emerged. Opponents seized on this and shortened the party's title Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, to the dismissive "Nazi"

Yes, those Nazis were really so persecuted and misunderstood.

Reminds me of today's white supremacist trumpists.

They control the house.

They control the senate.

They control the supreme court.

They control the white house.

But supposedly they're the victims!

Edited August 13, 2017 by Jingthing

johnnyonesock · August 13, 2017

Just now, Jingthing said:

Yes, those Nazis were really so persecuted and misunderstood.

Reminds me of today's white supremacist trumpists.

They control the house.

They control the senate.

They control the supreme court.

They control the white house.

But supposedly they're the victims!

your off on another paranoid rant JT..i was merely pointing out the interesting origin of the term "Nazi".....as to your above post i have sent u a PM of Trump and his controlling inner circle

Thakkar · August 13, 2017

34 minutes ago, johnnyonesock said:

CHARLOTTESVILLE, Va. (Reuters) - White nationalists clashed with counter-demonstrators in Charlottesville, Virginia, on Saturday, prompting the governor to declare an emergency and stop a rally to protest the planned removal of a Confederate general from a public park.

The Divide and Conquer is strong with this one. George Soros is known to bus in Anti-fa to start violence and get legally planned rallies with a permit shut down

That Soros! He's everywhere!

He could organize 3 -5 million illegal votes where they weren't needed but couldn't get an extra 40,000 votes where they were needed. What a putz! Can't trust those Jews to do anything right, amirite?

Jingthing · August 13, 2017

3 minutes ago, johnnyonesock said:

your off on another paranoid rant JT..i was merely pointing out the interesting origin of the term "Nazi".....as to your above post i have sent u a PM of Trump and his controlling inner circle

Please don't. I get exposed to enough alt-right propaganda already.

Edited August 13, 2017 by Jingthing

RobFord · August 13, 2017

The German people elected a National Socialist Govt... Nazi – an insult in use long before the rise of Adolf Hitler's party. It was a derogatory term for a backwards peasant – being a shortened version of Ignatius, a common name in Bavaria, the area from which the Nazis emerged. Opponents seized on this and shortened the party's title Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, to the dismissive "Nazi"

Although I can't believe we're talking about Nazis in this day and age ( thanks Trump ), I've learnt something.

The English slipped it to the f@ckers.

https://www.quora.com/What-does-Nazi-mean-in-German

https://www.quora.com/What-does-Nazi-mean-in-German

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cyberfarang · August 13, 2017

10 hours ago, RobFord said:

The image of cosmetic surgery gone bad.

David Duke, the former KKK grand wizard, is unambiguous about what Saturday’s alt-right and neo-Nazi rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, means to him: It’s the fulfillment of President Trump’s vision for America.

https://www.vox.com/2017/8/12/16138358/charlottesville-protests-david-duke-kkk

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.

pegman · August 13, 2017

4 hours ago, RobFord said:

https://www.quora.com/What-does-Nazi-mean-in-German

Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Seems it covers Trump nicely.

"It's worth noting that, within Germany at the time, the word "Nazi" was a homnym for "Naczi" which was an insulting term for a "foolish clumsy person", so the term wasn't actually used by the Nazi's to describe themselves."

pegman · August 13, 2017

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Typical alt-right conspiracy theory poppycock. Blaming everything on Soros is code for Jew hating. Ironically, the liberal Jewish mayor of Charlottesville was against taking down the statue but the freely elected council made that decision and their decision should be allowed to stand.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/demonization-of-soros-recalls-old-anti-semitic-conspiracies/

Your country could use many more George Soros's.

Jingthing · August 13, 2017

The root of what happened in Charlottesville -- trump.

Quote

The Jewish mayor of Charlottesville, Virginia blamed President Trump for stoking the violence that has erupted at a white supremacist rally in the Virginia college town.

“I’m not going to make any bones about it,” Mayor Michael Signer said. “I place the blame for a lot of what you’re seeing in America today right at the doorstep of the White House and the people around the President.”

http://forward.com/fast-forward/379773/charlottesville-jewish-mayor-blames-trump-for-violent-white-supremacist-ral/

cyberfarang · August 13, 2017

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

The root of what happened in Charlottesville -- trump.

http://forward.com/fast-forward/379773/charlottesville-jewish-mayor-blames-trump-for-violent-white-supremacist-ral/

I don`t blame President Trump. The real culprit is the power of the social media, like YouTube and fakebook.

It`s loaded with fake news, crackpot conspiracy theories, extremist propaganda that is aimed at the gullible and easy influenced which radicalizes people, especially the young. This includes the ultra right, ultra left and religious fanatics.

It has never been easier for hate groups to get organised and connect worldwide via the social media. The root causes is right there in front of your faces when you switch on your computers every day.

puck2 · August 14, 2017

12 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

I don`t blame President Trump. The real culprit is the power of the social media, like YouTube and fakebook.

It`s loaded with fake news, crackpot conspiracy theories, extremist propaganda that is aimed at the gullible and easy influenced which radicalizes people, especially the young. This includes the ultra right, ultra left and religious fanatics.

I<------>

New US extreme right-wing logic: the message-bearer is the villain, not the rascal himself.

BTW, it seems you only are able to deliver Trump's babble-propaganda. What about facts ?

Edited August 14, 2017 by puck2

boomerangutang · August 14, 2017

This probably won't be a popular opinion here, but just on the issue of the statue: Civil War general Robert E. Lee was well liked by his troops and was respected by brass of the opposing forces. I think the statue should stay. It's history.

I also don't have a problem with the Confederate flag. It too is history. Are liberals so sensitive that they can't stand seeing symbols of forces they don't agree with? - to the extent of clamoring to banish such symbols from ever being seen by anyone? History has a lot of blights, but it can't be erased.

In Mongolia, there are images of Genghis Khan everywhere. In Romania, Vlad the Impaler (incl. Dracula's castle) is a major tourist attraction. ....and on and on. We don't have to embrace despots, but we can acknowledge the historical records of their times. BTW, Lee wasn't a despot.

Looked at another way: 'If we don't learn from history, we're destined to repeat it.' It's ironic, in that the Charlottesville trouble may be a prequel to a 2nd US 'civil war.'

iReason · August 14, 2017

8 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

This probably won't be a popular opinion here, but just on the issue of the statue: Civil War general Robert E. Lee was well liked by his troops and was respected by brass of the opposing forces. I think the statue should stay. It's history.

I also don't have a problem with the Confederate flag. It too is history. Are liberals so sensitive that they can't stand seeing symbols of forces they don't agree with? - to the extent of clamoring to banish such symbols from ever being seen by anyone? History has a lot of blights, but it can't be erased.

In Mongolia, there are images of Genghis Khan everywhere. In Romania, Vlad the Impaler (incl. Dracula's castle) is a major tourist attraction. ....and on and on. We don't have to embrace despots, but we can acknowledge the historical records of their times. BTW, Lee wasn't a despot.

Looked at another way: 'If we don't learn from history, we're destined to repeat it.' It's ironic, in that the Charlottesville trouble may be a prequel to a 2nd US 'civil war.'

I read Gen. U.S. Grant's memoirs not too long ago.

Great read. Right from the horse's mouth on the Mexican-American War and the Civil War.

2 volumes and 2118 pages. On PDF.

Grant met Lee many times during the Mexican-American War.

Lee had been a top shelf U.S. Army officer and military engineer.

Grant highly respected him.

When the poop hit the fan, Lee was asked to command the U.S. Army.

He agonized overnight, declined, and decided to go with his home state.

From then on. U.S. Grant called him "the enemy."

Which is how they referred to the south and it soldiers.

Simply, the enemy.

Thakkar · August 14, 2017

32 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

This probably won't be a popular opinion here, but just on the issue of the statue: Civil War general Robert E. Lee was well liked by his troops and was respected by brass of the opposing forces. I think the statue should stay. It's history.

I also don't have a problem with the Confederate flag. It too is history. Are liberals so sensitive that they can't stand seeing symbols of forces they don't agree with? - to the extent of clamoring to banish such symbols from ever being seen by anyone? History has a lot of blights, but it can't be erased.

In Mongolia, there are images of Genghis Khan everywhere. In Romania, Vlad the Impaler (incl. Dracula's castle) is a major tourist attraction. ....and on and on. We don't have to embrace despots, but we can acknowledge the historical records of their times. BTW, Lee wasn't a despot.

Looked at another way: 'If we don't learn from history, we're destined to repeat it.' It's ironic, in that the Charlottesville trouble may be a prequel to a 2nd US 'civil war.'

So you'd have no problem with a statue of Charles Manson in a heroic pose in a public park. Manson is part of history too. So is the Boston Strangler or Hitler — all in heroic poses. In public parks, with no signs explaining what they represented.

Oh, he was popular with his troops? Was he popular with the slaves whose continued subjugation he fought for?

The statue, if it has to be kept at all, belongs in a museum with a placard clearly explaining the vile cause Lee fought for.

The Confederate flag isn't just "symbol of forces [liberals] don't agree with" it is a symbol of forces any decent human being and any patriotic American disagrees with, or *should* disagree with. It too belongs in a museum. Waving it around in public is the same as whites proudly waving a flag depicting a black man hanging by a rope from a branch because "it's part of history"

Genghis Khan was 800 years ago. At the time, every leader was a despot. Even Genghis Khan didn't enslave people who didn't oppose him, or by the color of their skins.

As to learning from history, the the heroic statues of slavers in public parks is teaching it wrong. These weren't heroes, these were reactionary slavers fighting for the right to subjugate fellow humans.

T

Edited August 14, 2017 by Thakkar

Jingthing · August 14, 2017

I think there is room for rational disagreement on the confederate monuments / rebel flag issue.

My opinion is a middle way.

Let local governments decide for themselves about the monuments.

If removed, they can be relocated in history museums.

On the rebel flag, I don't think it should be part of any state flag or fly at any government facility.

But freedom for the pickup truck / gun rack crowd to display if they wish along with their trump worship paraphernalia.

mtls2005 · August 14, 2017

"I'm confused, are the bags on or are the bags off?"

Thakkar · August 14, 2017

24 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I think there is room for rational disagreement on the confederate monuments / rebel flag issue.

My opinion is a middle way.

Let local governments decide for themselves about the monuments.

If removed, they can be relocated in history museums.

On the rebel flag, I don't think it should be part of any state flag or fly at any government facility.

But freedom for the pickup truck / gun rack crowd to display if they wish along with their trump worship paraphernalia.

When it comes to symbols of hate and subjugation by race, there is no "middle way."

I agree that individuals have the right to display their hateful symbols on their persons or property. But others have the right to call them out on their hatefulness, their wrong-headedness, their bigotry, their total flouting of American Values of inclusiveness, their call to violence and their pig-headed refusals to accept a historical loss for a cause no decent human could defend then, or now.

T

Jingthing · August 14, 2017

Well the USA does have free speech and I think that includes personally displaying Dixie flags or even Nazi ones. But there are levels. Should they be allowed in government funded schools? I would say no.

thaihome · August 14, 2017

On Saturday in Charlottesville, a rally in defense of a statue of Robert E. Lee turned into a reenactment of the cause he led—white supremacists marching behind the Confederate battle flag, their opponents left injured or dead on the ground.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/take-the-statues-down/536727/

Jingthing · August 14, 2017

I visited this park in Budapest. It was a great experience.

Why not such a park to park the confederate glorification statues?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memento_Park

Edited August 14, 2017 by Jingthing

RobFord · August 14, 2017

I don`t blame President Trump. The real culprit is the power of the social media, like YouTube and fakebook.

It`s loaded with fake news, crackpot conspiracy theories, extremist propaganda that is aimed at the gullible and easy influenced which radicalizes people, especially the young. This includes the ultra right, ultra left and religious fanatics.

It has never been easier for hate groups to get organised and connect worldwide via the social media. The root causes is right there in front of your faces when you switch on your computers every day.

Trump is the spawn of social media. He uses it.

Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

boomerangutang · August 14, 2017

4 hours ago, Thakkar said:

When it comes to symbols of hate and subjugation by race, there is no "middle way."

I agree that individuals have the right to display their hateful symbols on their persons or property. But others have the right to call them out on their hatefulness, their wrong-headedness, their bigotry, their total flouting of American Values of inclusiveness, their call to violence and their pig-headed refusals to accept a historical loss for a cause no decent human could defend then, or now.T

Much opinionating is subjective. One man's liquor is another man's poison. You say tomayto, and I say tomahto. You can look at a 900 year old Buddhist sculpture, and see swasitkas. Now, every western child is taught to see swastikas as horrible representations of evil. Every Tibetan child grows up loving the swastika symbol. Who is right?

I am reading a diary written by an attractive & rich young woman in Virginia. She was in her mansion with her mother and father, when legions of Union soldiers came by. They stole and butchered all her farm animals. They walked into her kitchen and stole anything of value. She pined daily for the gentlemanly confederate fellows who had been run out of town. Her solace came when young General Custer showed up and apologized, while punishing the thieving soldiers and putting a detail of good men to guard her house. She liked Custer, and probably would have had a romance with him, had he not already been married. Another Union general (Sheridan) came into town who outranked Custer, and the house was again commandeered. Anyhow, you can see how much of warfare is subjective observations/experiences. It would make a good movie.

I like to see the bigger perspective, and observe how flawed humans are as a species. The US civil war wasn't black and white / all-good on one side / all-bad on the other side. It involved the slave-holding issue (and other mostly-economic issues), but in my view, was mostly a secessionist movement - which failed - barely.

iReason · August 14, 2017

ilostmypassword · August 14, 2017

Trump Attacks Merck Chief Kenneth Frazier for Quitting Advisory Panel

"President Trump is facing heated criticism over not publicly condemningwhite nationalists for inciting this weekend’s bloody confrontation in Charlottesville, Va., but on Monday he criticized the head of Merck pharmaceuticals for quitting a federal panel in protest of Mr. Trump’s equivocal response to the violence.

Merck’s chief executive, Kenneth C. Frazier, resigned from the president’s American Manufacturing Council on Monday, saying he objected to the president’s statement on Saturday blaming violence that left one woman dead on “all sides.”

“America’s leaders must honor our fundamental views by clearly rejecting expressions of hatred, bigotry and group supremacy, which run counter to the American ideal that all people are created equal,” Mr. Frazier said in a tweet announcing he was stepping down from the panel."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/14/us/politics/trump-charlottesville-protest.html?action=Click&contentCollection=BreakingNews&contentID=65697107&pgtype=Homepage

ANd you want to know what Trump tweeted?

Now that Ken Frazier of Merck Pharma has resigned from President's Manufacturing Council,he will have more time to LOWER RIPOFF DRUG PRICES!

There is definitely nothing wrong with Donald Trump.

Thakkar · August 14, 2017

38 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

Much opinionating is subjective. One man's liquor is another man's poison. You say tomayto, and I say tomahto. You can look at a 900 year old Buddhist sculpture, and see swasitkas. Now, every western child is taught to see swastikas as horrible representations of evil. Every Tibetan child grows up loving the swastika symbol. Who is right?

I am reading a diary written by an attractive & rich young woman in Virginia. She was in her mansion with her mother and father, when legions of Union soldiers came by. They stole and butchered all her farm animals. They walked into her kitchen and stole anything of value. She pined daily for the gentlemanly confederate fellows who had been run out of town. Her solace came when young General Custer showed up and apologized, while punishing the thieving soldiers and putting a detail of good men to guard her house. She liked Custer, and probably would have had a romance with him, had he not already been married. Another Union general (Sheridan) came into town who outranked Custer, and the house was again commandeered. Anyhow, you can see how much of warfare is subjective observations/experiences. It would make a good movie.

I like to see the bigger perspective, and observe how flawed humans are as a species. The US civil war wasn't black and white / all-good on one side / all-bad on the other side. It involved the slave-holding issue (and other mostly-economic issues), but in my view, was mostly a secessionist movement - which failed - barely.

This is some next level ridiculousness.

"Opinionating is subjective" - what does that even mean?

The Hindu swastika and Nazi one are slightly different. But the similarity is not accidental. The Nazis appropriated the symbol as a result of a twisted re-purposing of some Hindu ideals. The symbols are similar but different. People who don't know the difference are simply people who don't know the difference.

The White Supremacist marchers who displayed it knew very well what they were displaying. The Nazis knew what they were displaying. How Hindus see the symbol has nothing to do with what it represents to the neo Nazis of today in Charlottesville, Hungary or Russia.

Atrocities are atrocities, nobody's excusing them. Atrocities committed by Union soldiers do not excuse the other side for having started a war that was entirely about maintaining the right to buy, own and trade in human beings like cattle. No war, no Union soldier atrocities. How do you manage to "see the bigger picture" by honing down to the experience of a single southern belle? That is the exact opposite of seeing the bigger picture!

When it came to the actions of individual soldiers or battalions, it's never black and white. But the Civil War was pretty black and white, and the result was clear: the end of slavery (although not yet the end of the subjugation of blacks, but it was a start).

The reason for secession was to continue slavery. The secessionist movement was a movement to perpetuate slavery, the lynchpin of the Southern economy.

oldhippy · August 14, 2017

13 minutes ago, Thakkar said:

This is some next level ridiculousness.

"Opinionating is subjective" - what does that even mean?

The Hindu swastika and Nazi one are slightly different. But the similarity is not accidental. The Nazis appropriated the symbol as a result of a twisted re-purposing of some Hindu ideals. The symbols are similar but different. People who don't know the difference are simply people who don't know the difference.

The White Supremacist marchers who displayed it knew very well what they were displaying. The Nazis knew what they were displaying. How Hindus see the symbol has nothing to do with what it represents to the neo Nazis of today in Charlottesville, Hungary or Russia.

Atrocities are atrocities, nobody's excusing them. Atrocities committed by Union soldiers do not excuse the other side for having started a war that was entirely about maintaining the right to buy, own and trade in human beings like cattle. No war, no Union soldier atrocities. How do you manage to "see the bigger picture" by honing down to the experience of a single southern belle? That is the exact opposite of seeing the bigger picture!

When it came to the actions of individual soldiers or battalions, it's never black and white. But the Civil War was pretty black and white, and the result was clear: the end of slavery (although not yet the end of the subjugation of blacks, but it was a start).

The reason for secession was to continue slavery. The secessionist movement was a movement to perpetuate slavery, the lynchpin of the Southern economy.

The civil war was NOT about slavery.

And many cultures used the swastika, including the Vikings.

Edited August 14, 2017 by oldhippy
edit

JAG · August 14, 2017

Clearly not enough chlorine in that particular gene pool then...

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