Thai ban on e-cigarettes could lead to ’10-year jail term’

[mommysboy]

4 minutes ago, YetAnother said:

i/we do not ask (thais 'demand') for a comprehensive review across the board of crime-seriousness vs. punishment; even tho it is urgently required; we do , however , expect some sort of , yes, 'fairness', in new laws

It counts for nothing though!  Thais do their own thing regardless.  And I suppose every society has its crazy rules that no one else understands.

 

I reckon we just have to accept that acting on the evidence of their experts, the Government feels e-cigarettes are a danger to public health, and is prepared to assume that in the long run they are as dangerous as cigarettes.

 

What also needs to be noted is that for the Thais it may have been a case of following this influential country or that, and you don't have to go far to see USA, UK, and Australian media-to name a few- peddling scare stories that appear to have no basis.  The US anti-smoking lobby is particularly strong in subverting even scientific findings.

[joeyg]

15 hours ago, coulson said:

 

This ban promotes cigarette smoking. How does that amount to saving lives and promoting better health?

 

It's a puzzle.  However decreasing the smoke/chemicals you voluntarily inhale by any means is a positive thing. I did not for a moment think that this was promoting cigarette smoking. Thank you for your valuable thoughts on this matter.

[coulson]

It's a puzzle.  However decreasing the smoke/chemicals you voluntarily inhale by any means is a positive thing. I did not for a moment think that this was promoting cigarette smoking. Thank you for your valuable thoughts on this matter.

War of attrition here.

If people can't vape anymore in Thailand they go straight to 7 11.

Therefore by default it promotes the voluntary smoking of cigarettes.

[fforest1]

They are going soft with a 10 year sentence for vaping...

To protect vapors health maybe a death sentence would get vapors to stop vaping and improve their health....

 

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, joeyg said:

It's a puzzle.  However decreasing the smoke/chemicals you voluntarily inhale by any means is a positive thing. I did not for a moment think that this was promoting cigarette smoking. Thank you for your valuable thoughts on this matter.

 

You have a point which perhaps we all overlook too easily.

 

When we are poisoned it is often as much as being exposed to high amounts of something as the chemical itself.

 

And with vaping it is right to wonder why it is not at all dangerous, maybe it is the steaming process as opposed to the burning.  Yet as it stands it does not seem to be dangerous at all, save in respect of ingesting nicotine which may raise blood pressure, and could cause artery damage in some people over the long term.

 

It is a muddle- I can stand next to busy road and get poisoned far more profoundly (worse just get poisoned by opening the house door), or go to 7/11 and buy a similar product that is guaranteed hazardous.

[Idiotabroad]

I was in the Pratum Thani immigration last week and the immigration officer was in the building blowing fat clouds from his e cigarette out of the window.

 

Literally inside the building smoking his e-cigarette blowing the vapor out the window.

[mommysboy]

7 minutes ago, Idiotabroad said:

I was in the Pratum Thani immigration last week and the immigration officer was in the building blowing fat clouds from his e cigarette out of the window.

 

Literally inside the building smoking his e-cigarette blowing the vapor out the window.

And this is the other big point: utterly haphazard application of the law.  For that matter, it is a law wrongfully applied, since importation is clearly about bringing trading goods from outside the country (while in that country), and not about simple use.

[joeyg]

22 hours ago, coulson said:

 

War of attrition here.

If people can't vape anymore in Thailand they go straight to 7 11.

Therefore by default it promotes the voluntary smoking of cigarettes.
 

 

That's an opinion.  Thank you.

[Jonah Tenner]

On 17.8.2017 at 6:50 AM, joeyg said:

Hopefully this will save some lives and promote better health.

Yes, going to Thailand is very dangerous. Lots of tourists are endangered by air pollution and traffic in LoS

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, Jonah Tenner said:

Yes, going to Thailand is very dangerous. Lots of tourists are endangered by air pollution and traffic in LoS

They should ban any sort of steam.  And as for water....well now, don't get me started.

[CeeGee]

Just trying to get an update, on arrival at swampy, I know that they are x raying more suitcases but do you have to go through a body scan. I am thinking if I put my battery in my jeans pocket and there is a body scan, it will stand out.If no scan (as the battery is the biggest part) the rest of my vape kit can be separated about my checked bag.It is an e leaf i stick battery with a nautilus mini tank, so apart from the battery everything else is very small and can be easily spread about in my checked bag.

Any opinions

[Idiotabroad]

6 minutes ago, CeeGee said:

Just trying to get an update, on arrival at swampy, I know that they are x raying more suitcases but do you have to go through a body scan. I am thinking if I put my battery in my jeans pocket and there is a body scan, it will stand out.If no scan (as the battery is the biggest part) the rest of my vape kit can be separated about my checked bag.It is an e leaf i stick battery with a nautilus mini tank, so apart from the battery everything else is very small and can be easily spread about in my checked bag.

Any opinions

I would not risk it in the airport.

They are readily available on sukhumvit road. I would not risk "importing" one.

But this is just my opinion as they are illegal.

I have spoken with some Thai friends that have been arrested with them as well and they said they had paid anywhere from 5,000 to 100,000 Baht fine for using the device.

 

[Idiotabroad]

The fact that they are still readily available on Sukhumvit Road and in shopping malls like MBK I would imagine that they are not strictly enforcing the e-cigarette laws. 

I imagine that these are random cases where the cops actually know the current laws and are trying to make a little extra money.

 

Edited August 24, 2017 by Idiotabroad

[mommysboy]

48 minutes ago, CeeGee said:

Just trying to get an update, on arrival at swampy, I know that they are x raying more suitcases but do you have to go through a body scan. I am thinking if I put my battery in my jeans pocket and there is a body scan, it will stand out.If no scan (as the battery is the biggest part) the rest of my vape kit can be separated about my checked bag.It is an e leaf i stick battery with a nautilus mini tank, so apart from the battery everything else is very small and can be easily spread about in my checked bag.

Any opinions

 

 

It's a very small gamble (perhaps 10000 to 1) but rather big ramifications if you are unlucky.  There is no update, and the clarity and certainty you want on rules is not possible because as you know Thailand can throw up these absurdities.

 

If you decide the risk is to great, you need to have something set up in Thailand already, decide to smoke conventional cigarettes for the duration, or go cold turkey.

Edited August 24, 2017 by mommysboy

[CeeGee]

The trouble with buying locally is the quality, I am bringing my own juice so I know thats ok but some unknown cheap Chinese knock off battery unit  from a market stall has big question marks.We are all aware of the quality control in Thailand for legitimate products let alone some copy.

I am pretty certain that the tank can be spread around my check luggage but it is the battery.If there is no body scanner(which I did not notice last time I came in) I should be ok with it in my pocket???

The above post re the scanner was posted whilst I was typing this

Edited August 24, 2017 by CeeGee
update

[mommysboy]

3 minutes ago, CeeGee said:

The trouble with buying locally is the quality, I am bringing my own juice so I know thats ok but some unknown cheap Chinese knock off battery unit  from a market stall has big question marks.We are all aware of the quality control in Thailand for legitimate products let alone some copy.

I am pretty certain that the tank can be spread around my check luggage but it is the battery.If there is no body scanner(which I did not notice last time I came in) I should be ok with it in my pocket???

The above post re the scanner was posted whilst I was typing this

You can not make any assumptions, because there are so many variables.  The people thus caught have probably been targeted by a rather rapacious officer eager to make a few thousand or more, and prepared to stretch the rule of law  Actually, I doubt that bringing one in for personal use could pass as importation in a court of law, but the point is you don't want to go there, do you?

 

If your battery has any metal in it, then you will not pass through the UK detector unnoticed, but thinking about it there is no problem Thai side.  If you are not actually seen using one at the airport in Thailand, then it is extremely unlikely anything bad will happen, however you are after an assurance that no one can give, because breaking laws always has a risky element and nobody is going to recommend you do it.

[monkfish]

The fact that they are still readily available on Sukhumvit Road and in shopping malls like MBK I would imagine that they are not strictly enforcing the e-cigarette laws. 
I imagine that these are random cases where the cops actually know the current laws and are trying to make a little extra money.
 

Readily available? They used to be but i havnt seen any in shopping malls for about a year now.

Sent from my ASUS_Z01BDB using Tapatalk

[coulson]

You can not make any assumptions, because there are so many variables.  The people thus caught have probably been targeted by a rather rapacious officer eager to make a few thousand or more, and prepared to stretch the rule of law  Actually, I doubt that bringing one in for personal use could pass as importation in a court of law, but the point is you don't want to go there, do you?
 
If your battery has any metal in it, then you will not pass through the UK detector unnoticed, but thinking about it there is no problem Thai side.  If you are not actually seen using one at the airport in Thailand, then it is extremely unlikely anything bad will happen, however you are after an assurance that no one can give, because breaking laws always has a risky element and nobody is going to recommend you do it.

Agree. There are no body scanners/metal detectors on arrival so whatever you can carry through security on departure you can bring through on your person. But like you said, if there's any doubt there should be no doubt. Only time I was stopped at suvarnhabhumi was by a random cop just 1m outside customs within the secured arrival hall where the limos tout, they opened all my bags in front of passers by which was completely unnecessary and inappropriate. Not worth it, all it takes is one lone cowboy with an idea.

[Idiotabroad]

3 hours ago, monkfish said:

Readily available? They used to be but i havnt seen any in shopping malls for about a year now.

Sent from my ASUS_Z01BDB using Tapatalk
 

I was in MBK a month ago and there were 2 shops openly selling them.

And walking down sukhumvit I've noticed several vendors selling decent products. 

[Blinky62]

Can anyone prove a logical explanation as to WHY e-cigarettes are banned in LOS?  Other than the fact the tobacco companies are dead against them for cutting into their profits? 
 

P M doesn't like the smell of them . Apply section so and so and ban them . Job done [emoji736]


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[mommysboy]

38 minutes ago, Idiotabroad said:

I was in MBK a month ago and there were 2 shops openly selling them.

And walking down sukhumvit I've noticed several vendors selling decent products. 

Ok, but the latest round of stupity kicked off about a month ago with warnings in the media and the arrest of a Swiss guy seemingly on an importation charge. I'm afraid the past with regard to e-cigs probably has to be taken as anything before then.

 

It's a riciculous situation, but as I have said before when you bring that stick in you are in a similar position to someone smuggling in a small quantity of a banned drug.  Don't rely on reasonableness and common sense to see you through.

[White Christmas13]

Just found this in todays news

 

http://colinmendelsohn.com.au/posts/death-dumbness-joe-hildebrand-slams-vaping-laws/

[Salerno]

On 24/08/2017 at 6:51 PM, CeeGee said:

Just trying to get an update, on arrival at swampy, I know that they are x raying more suitcases but do you have to go through a body scan. I am thinking if I put my battery in my jeans pocket and there is a body scan, it will stand out.If no scan (as the battery is the biggest part) the rest of my vape kit can be separated about my checked bag.It is an e leaf i stick battery with a nautilus mini tank, so apart from the battery everything else is very small and can be easily spread about in my checked bag.

Any opinions

 

Batteries in carry on, juice etc. in checked luggage. Just back from a short trip (just over two weeks) and flew Thai, asked at check in the usual spiel about dangerous goods in checked in luggage and they even asked if any ecigs, told them in my backpack, no issue, they even have a sign on the check-in desk saying ecigs have to be in carry on and not checked ... go figure!

 

No hassles and was vaping in bars, clubs, on the street but must say I was keeping an eye out for the BiB. Few bar owners I've known a while mentioned to be careful so word is getting out, some still didn't know the new "law".

 

Guess it's just a matter of luck.

[nisakiman]

On 8/23/2017 at 3:27 PM, mommysboy said:

They should ban any sort of steam.  And as for water....well now, don't get me started.

 

What is Dihydrogen Monoxide?

"Dihydrogen Monoxide (DHMO) is a colorless and odorless chemical compound, also referred to by some as Dihydrogen Oxide, Hydrogen Hydroxide, Hydronium Hydroxide, or simply Hydric acid. Its basis is the highly reactive hydroxyl radical, a species shown to mutate DNA, denature proteins, disrupt cell membranes, and chemically alter critical neurotransmitters. The atomic components of DHMO are found in a number of caustic, explosive and poisonous compounds such as Sulfuric Acid, Nitroglycerine and Ethyl Alcohol.

For more detailed information, including precautions, disposal procedures and storage requirements, refer to one of the Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS) available for DHMO:"

 

 

And just to show how easily people are fooled by this sort of chicanery:

 

 

"Research conducted by award-winning U.S. scientist Nathan Zohner concluded that roughly 86 percent of the population supports a ban on dihydrogen monoxide. Although his results are preliminary, Zohner believes people need to pay closer attention to the information presented to them regarding Dihydrogen Monoxide. He adds that if more people knew the truth about DHMO then studies like the one he conducted would not be necessary.

 

A similar study conducted by U.S. researchers Patrick K. McCluskey and Matthew Kulick also found that nearly 90 percent of the citizens participating in their study were willing to sign a petition to support an outright ban on the use of Dihydrogen Monoxide in the United States."

 

 

 

http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html

 

 

On 8/20/2017 at 3:27 PM, mommysboy said:

What also needs to be noted is that for the Thais it may have been a case of following this influential country or that, and you don't have to go far to see USA, UK, and Australian media-to name a few- peddling scare stories that appear to have no basis.  The US anti-smoking lobby is particularly strong in subverting even scientific findings.

 

You make a pertinent point, and one that not many people are aware of. The Anti-Smoker industry likes to portray itself as a latter-day David bravely battling with the Goliath of Big Tobacco, but in reality, nothing could be further from the truth. TC (Tobacco Control) is awash with money - globally it's a multi-billion dollar business, and so-called 'Big Tobacco' can only look on in envy at the vast funds (and the influence that comes with that level of financial clout) that are available to their nemesis. Not only do TC get vast amounts of taxpayer cash, (plus in the USA they get some $ 600,000,000 a year from the Master Settlement), but also the pharmaceutical companies pour countless millions into the TC coffers because smoking bans are good for business. The global NRT business is worth billions. It's why the pharmaceutical industry has been trying to get e-cigs medicalised, so that they will be the only ones who can afford to get e-cigs through the rigorous (and very expensive) medical approval system.

 

My excerpt above, and the link it came from was written specifically to illustrate how organisations like Tobacco Control manipulate science to suit their agenda. (Do have a read of the whole article - it is all factual and truthful, but completely misleading.) They rely on the fact that people won't question their 'findings' because they are 'experts'. Much of their 'research' which they use to scare gullible people into hating smokers, and to lobby similarly gullible politicians into introducing stupid laws (like the e-cig ban in Thailand) is written exactly in the style of the linked article above, and things presented as hazardous are usually anything but. They always omit to point out the first law of toxicology - that the dose makes the poison. In fact lying by omission is another of their favourite tactics. 

 

SECOND-HAND SMOKE IS DANGEROUS if you are in a small, sealed and unventilated room for at least 200 years with someone who smokes 200 cigarettes a day,

 

is the sort of thing, although they tend not to bother to publish the small print.

 

The e-cig ban in Thailand is a product of this kind of legerdemain, where self-proclaimed 'experts' (with an ideological agenda) from TC have submitted 'evidence' like the example above to government ministers who have no scientific knowledge. The ministers look at the gobbledygook in front of them and think "Omigod, these things must be dangerous! Quick, ban them!". And that's it. Job done. Another step towards that utopian 'smoke-free' world the anti-smokers fantasise about. To hell with unforeseen consequences; to hell with collateral damage. The jihad must continue unabated.

 

[Tony125]

 

E-cigarettes associated with increased blood pressure, heart rate, and arterial stiffness, study reveals

 

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20170911/E-cigarettes-associated-with-increased-blood-pressure-heart-rate-and-arterial-stiffness-in-humans-study-reveals.aspx

[anon789561]

https://publichouse.sg/fear-e-cigs-gateway-young-turn-smoking-unfounded-uk-study-finds/

 

[anon789561]

Just now, Happy enough said:

https://publichouse.sg/fear-e-cigs-gateway-young-turn-smoking-unfounded-uk-study-finds/

 

"A recent study by Public Health England, a department in the Ministry of Health in England, found that the harm from e-cigarettes was not more than 5% of that associated with regular tobacco cigarette smoking. The Royal College of Physicians concurred with the results."

[geronimo]

On 8/14/2017 at 5:09 PM, Just1Voice said:

Can anyone prove a logical explanation as to WHY e-cigarettes are banned in LOS?  Other than the fact the tobacco companies are dead against them for cutting into their profits? 

 

It is because e-cigs have no taxation category and anyone caught with one has not paid any duty on it. Apparently ......

[inThailand]

1 minute ago, geronimo said:

It is because e-cigs have no taxation category and anyone caught with one has not paid any duty on it. Apparently ......

Yup! As with most decisions it comes down to "show me the money".

[ukrules]

These are very simple devices to manufacture. They don't need to be imported.

 

If the crime is importing them, what happens when they manufacture them ?

 

It's a simple heating element and controller circuit with a wick system for most of them based on what I've seen.