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[rooster59]

Several wounded in Russian knife attack, attacker shot dead

 

MOSCOW (Reuters) - From seven to eight people were wounded in a knife attack in the Russian Siberian city of Surgut, local criminal investigators said on Saturday, adding that the attacker had been shot dead by police.

 

The militant Islamic State group, monitored in Cairo, said one of its fighters had carried out the attack, though a Russian law enforcement spokeswoman would not comment on whether police regarded the incident as terrorism related.

 

"A man was moving along the main streets stabbing people", the local law enforcement committee in Surgut said in a statement on its website. No-one was killed in the attack.

 

The attacker, who was born in 1994, had been killed, it said. It did not identify him by name.

 

"The committee is investigating attempted murder", its spokeswoman told Reuters by phone.

 

"The attacker responsible for the stabbing incident in Surgut in Russia is a fighter of the Islamic State", the group said through the AMAQ news agency.

 

The militant Islamist group, whose fighters are hard pressed by international coalition and national forces in Syria and Iraq, regularly claims links with attacks carried out in Europe.

 

The perpetrators of many attacks have often been inspired by the group's beliefs and acted alone, rather than been directed or organised by an Islamic State network on the ground.

 

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-08-20

[Nowisee]

It is time we admitted that we are not at war with "terrorism". We are at war with Islam. This is not to say that we are at war with all Muslims, but we are absolutely at war with the vision of life that is prescribed to all Muslims in the Koran. The only reason Muslim fundamentalism is a threat to us is because the fundamentals of Islam are a threat to us. - Sam Harris

[impulse]

1 hour ago, Nowisee said:

It is time we admitted that we are not at war with "terrorism". We are at war with Islam. This is not to say that we are at war with all Muslims, but we are absolutely at war with the vision of life that is prescribed to all Muslims in the Koran. The only reason Muslim fundamentalism is a threat to us is because the fundamentals of Islam are a threat to us. - Sam Harris

 

40 years ago, if a terror attack occurred in the UK, it probably would have probably been Catholic attackers.

70 years ago, had a terror attack occurred in the Middle East, it would have probably been Jewish attackers.

For decades, there have been terror attacks all over Latin America- not a Muslim involved.

Today, if there's a terror attack in Myanmar, it's probably Buddhists attacking Muslims.

 

The root of those attacks were seldom (never?) the religion.  It's about power, land, money and wealth. 

 

[Tchooptip]

32 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

40 years ago, if a terror attack occurred in the UK, it probably would have probably been Catholic attackers.

70 years ago, had a terror attack occurred in the Middle East, it would have probably been Jewish attackers.

For decades, there have been terror attacks all over Latin America- not a Muslim involved.

Today, if there's a terror attack in Myanmar, it's probably Buddhists attacking Muslims.

 

The root of those attacks were seldom (never?) the religion.  It's about power, land, money and wealth. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks

[impulse]

1 hour ago, Tchooptip said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks

 

Going with your link (not making any judgment of its accuracy), there have been 21,000 people killed by Muslim terrorists.  (To be fair, my recollecton is that number's a lot higher)  In a world with 7 billion people, including 1.8 billion Muslims, that means that there has been one Muslim terrorist fatality for every 85,000 Muslims in the world.

 

Hardly seems reasonable to declare war on Muslims or Islam if 84,999 out of 85,000 aren't guilty of anything.  Radical Islamists, sure.  Just like we need to declare war on any terror group.  But don't bomb 'em all and let God sort it out.

 

Most of the victims are (not surprisingly) Muslims, because most of the acts of terror are happening in troubled countries that are predominately Muslim.  They aren't killing each other because they're infidels.  It's power, land, money and wealth.  And we're arming some and bombing others.

 

And finally, here's a link to 21 fatal acts of terrorism over the past 10 years in the USA alone (5% of the world's population), all perpetrated by Right Wing Extremists.  Scale that up worldwide, and there's another terror group we need to declare war on.  Except, in a lot of cases, them are pretty close to us.  Hard for the military industrial complex to get any traction out of going after reactionary Christian fundamentalists.  (BTW, fully acknowledging that 84,999 out of every 85,000 of them aren't bad guys, either.)  

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_terrorism

 

 

 

Edited August 20, 2017 by impulse

[Tchooptip]

1 hour ago, impulse said:

 

Going with your link (not making any judgment of its accuracy), there have been 21,000 people killed by Muslim terrorists.  (To be fair, my recollecton is that number's a lot higher)  In a world with 7 billion people, including 1.8 billion Muslims, that means that there has been one Muslim terrorist fatality for every 85,000 Muslims in the world.

 

Hardly seems reasonable to declare war on Muslims or Islam if 84,999 out of 85,000 aren't guilty of anything.  Radical Islam, sure.  Just like we need to declare war on any terror group.  But don't bomb 'em all and let God sort it out.

 

Most of the victims are (not surprisingly) Muslims, because most of the acts of terror are happening in troubled countries that are predominately Muslim.  They aren't killing each other because they're infidels.  It's power, land, money and wealth.  And we're arming some and bombing others.

 

And finally, here's a link to 21 fatal acts of terrorism over the past 10 years in the USA alone (5% of the world's population), all perpetrated by Right Wing Extremists.  Scale that up worldwide, and there's another terror group we need to declare war on.  Except, in a lot of cases, them are pretty close to us.  Hard for the military industrial complex to get any traction out of going after reactionary Christian fundamentalists.  (BTW, fully acknowledging that 84,999 out of every 85,000 of them aren't bad guys, either.)  

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_terrorism

 

 

 

3

I am NOT a Muslim hater, I am certainly sorry all those people are manipulated to make those horrors in the name of Islam, NEVER said I Westerners should declare war "on Islam",

 no offence but I was shocked by your excess of political correctness, trying to compare the terror attack in UK by Catholics 40 years ago, when those terrorist attacks nowadays are the world over in no comparison possible as far as number and places are concerned.

Then you went as far as: The root of those attacks was seldom (never?) the religion.  It's about power, land, money and wealth.

But that is too much too, for most of those terrorists murdering innocent people, it is in the name of ISIS 

 so at least in their sick minds, it WAS in the name of Islam.

I am perfectly aware the Muslim community paid the greatest toll with the highest number of dead and wounded, and do not need this stubborn comparison with 21 fatal acts of terrorism over the past 10 years in the USA alone, a desperate attempt trying to prove the impossible. That is to say, there is no terrorism at all based on Islam faith. Hundreds of video on Youtube with Muslims clerics declaring war to the western value. Or for instance condemning the gay community to death.  Fortunately, many clever and educated Muslims share this vision that something has to be done. When you seem to prefer to remain blind and deaf to the strictest (and sad) reality. IMHO you are not a good defence attorney, even though I understand you did not want every Muslims tar with the same brush, which I never did or thought. 

[ilostmypassword]

4 hours ago, Nowisee said:

It is time we admitted that we are not at war with "terrorism". We are at war with Islam. This is not to say that we are at war with all Muslims, but we are absolutely at war with the vision of life that is prescribed to all Muslims in the Koran. The only reason Muslim fundamentalism is a threat to us is because the fundamentals of Islam are a threat to us. - Sam Harris

Actually, Isis recruits tend to be ignorant of islam.

https://apnews.com/9f94ff7f1e294118956b049a51548b33

[Mac98]

1 hour ago, impulse said:

 

Going with your link (not making any judgment of its accuracy), there have been 21,000 people killed by Muslim terrorists.  (To be fair, my recollecton is that number's a lot higher)  In a world with 7 billion people, including 1.8 billion Muslims, that means that there has been one Muslim terrorist fatality for every 85,000 Muslims in the world.

 

Hardly seems reasonable to declare war on Muslims or Islam if 84,999 out of 85,000 aren't guilty of anything.  Radical Islamists, sure.  Just like we need to declare war on any terror group.  But don't bomb 'em all and let God sort it out.

 

Most of the victims are (not surprisingly) Muslims, because most of the acts of terror are happening in troubled countries that are predominately Muslim.  They aren't killing each other because they're infidels.  It's power, land, money and wealth.  And we're arming some and bombing others.

 

And finally, here's a link to 21 fatal acts of terrorism over the past 10 years in the USA alone (5% of the world's population), all perpetrated by Right Wing Extremists.  Scale that up worldwide, and there's another terror group we need to declare war on.  Except, in a lot of cases, them are pretty close to us.  Hard for the military industrial complex to get any traction out of going after reactionary Christian fundamentalists.  (BTW, fully acknowledging that 84,999 out of every 85,000 of them aren't bad guys, either.)  

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_terrorism

 

 

 

Let's look at terrorism another way. You day 21,000 deaths by terrorists. I accept your figure. But wasn't the Inquisition religion-based terrorism? So how do we count the execution of Muslim gays, or of those who questioned the Koran, or left the faith,  or were victims of an 'honor' killing? As you said, most victims of Islamic terrorism are Muslim. 

[impulse]

46 minutes ago, Tchooptip said:

I am NOT a Muslim hater, I am certainly sorry all those people are manipulated to make those horrors in the name of Islam, NEVER said I Westerners should declare war "on Islam",

 no offence but I was shocked by your excess of political correctness, trying to compare the terror attack in UK by Catholics 40 years ago, when those terrorist attacks nowadays are the world over in no comparison possible as far as number and places are concerned.

 

My first post was a response to nowisee's comment "It is time we admitted that we are not at war with "terrorism". We are at war with Islam."  And that's the point I continue to disagree with.

 

And I contend that there is very little difference between Catholics placing bombs to kill innocents in London in response to what was being done to their people back in Ireland, and what's going on today in response to what's happening all over the Middle East.  But more to the point, I contend that the IRA Catholics weren't placing bombs because they wanted to kill Protestants.   They wanted the foreign occupiers (by their definition) out of their home country.  Sound familiar?

 

And to draw one more parallel, we rarely hear about IRA bombings any more because somehow they all figured out a way to include them in the political system.  Not because they were bombed out of existence.  That's the only solution to end radical Islamist terror.  Unless we want to kill 1.8 billion followers of Islam- as if that were even possible.

 

Edited August 20, 2017 by impulse

[Srikcir]

The Russia State should be cautious about any general overreactions towards Muslims in Russia stemming from this attack. While about 11% of the Russian population is Muslim, it is estimated that about one-third to one-half of Russians will be Muslims by 2050.

https://jamestown.org/program/marlene-laruelle-how-islam-will-change-russia/

 

 

[Guest Jerry787]

There are no wars against western or against islam or muslims

the only war its the hate ware, hate war to create more racism, more hate, the war of poor against poor for a skin color, or nazi ideology, or religion at the only benefit of few who will enjoy more profit and more wealth meantime the mass population hate each other and kill each other.

western country in name of whatever peace (oil business peace and democracy)  bombed almost every muslim corner, from Afghanistan, libya, syria, yemen, iraq, palestine, and more, we financed Saudi Arabia, who funds ISIS agaist yemen and qatar and syria, we founded ai qedaa and bin laden.

we bombed and massacred families, innocent child, elders, schools, hospitals, in name or our democracy even much before they perpetrated any terrorist attack against the west, are we complaining that now several of them got mad and trow them selves to death attacking us back, where we feel more at easy.

guess now , you are the father of the mother of such child

1 event one - syria, a normal honest family father works in a regular company, mother at home with Childs, live a i middle class quarters, in a provincial city
one day the "pro freedom forces against Assad) bomb and storm such area many building down the father goes back home and find his family all killed,  blood and flesh on walls, he done nothing against no one, just carry his normal family life, 
How would you feel is you were such man ? will you thanks yanks and European or you will hate them ?
 

2 event two - spain barcellona, - a normal honest family father works in a regular company, mother at home with Childs, in summer budgeted holiday, visit the rambla, taking selfies, hotel 4 star, medium range restaurant, happy summer time
a certain point a crazy terrorist, drive a van and kills several inclusive of the childs and husband of the mother
How would you feel is you were such mother ? will you thanks islam or muslims or you will hate them ?

its the same thing, hate doesn't stop hate, hate create more hate.

illegal migrants in europe, muslims terrorism, western bombing of middle east and muslim countries can be stopped only once the one in real power will find the people of the globe stopped to hate each other.

 

[jak2002003]

11 minutes ago, Jerry787 said:

There are no wars against western or against islam or muslims

the only war its the hate ware, hate war to create more racism, more hate, the war of poor against poor for a skin color, or nazi ideology, or religion at the only benefit of few who will enjoy more profit and more wealth meantime the mass population hate each other and kill each other.

western country in name of whatever peace (oil business peace and democracy)  bombed almost every muslim corner, from Afghanistan, libya, syria, yemen, iraq, palestine, and more, we financed Saudi Arabia, who funds ISIS agaist yemen and qatar and syria, we founded ai qedaa and bin laden.

we bombed and massacred families, innocent child, elders, schools, hospitals, in name or our democracy even much before they perpetrated any terrorist attack against the west, are we complaining that now several of them got mad and trow them selves to death attacking us back, where we feel more at easy.

guess now , you are the father of the mother of such child

1 event one - syria, a normal honest family father works in a regular company, mother at home with Childs, live a i middle class quarters, in a provincial city
one day the "pro freedom forces against Assad) bomb and storm such area many building down the father goes back home and find his family all killed,  blood and flesh on walls, he done nothing against no one, just carry his normal family life, 
How would you feel is you were such man ? will you thanks yanks and European or you will hate them ?
 

2 event two - spain barcellona, - a normal honest family father works in a regular company, mother at home with Childs, in summer budgeted holiday, visit the rambla, taking selfies, hotel 4 star, medium range restaurant, happy summer time
a certain point a crazy terrorist, drive a van and kills several inclusive of the childs and husband of the mother
How would you feel is you were such mother ? will you thanks islam or muslims or you will hate them ?

its the same thing, hate doesn't stop hate, hate create more hate.

illegal migrants in europe, muslims terrorism, western bombing of middle east and muslim countries can be stopped only once the one in real power will find the people of the globe stopped to hate each other.

 

Very nice.

 

So your think we should let people have free range to murder us as we deserve it?

 

 

[ikbenhet]

[Dumbastheycome]

On 8/20/2017 at 4:53 PM, jak2002003 said:

Very nice.

 

So your think we should let people have free range to murder us as we deserve it?

 

 

I believe the  suggestion is that the  focus of the  hate  is a  manipulation for ulterior motive on  both sides.

[jak2002003]

16 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

I believe the  suggestion is that the  focus of the  hate  is a  manipulation for ulterior motive on  both sides.

I got that.

 

But the poster can give reasons he believes the attacks occur, seeming to have sympathy with the people doing it, yet offers no suggestions how to stop these things.  We all know people have reasons for doing bad things, usually, but that does not excuse what they do if they are killing innocent people who have nothing to do with what ever they have against their society.  Also doing these things they are doing it in the name of their god and religion, not saying they are doing it for revenge for the West killing people in their countries....

 

We might think we understand why they are doing these things, but does that men we are willing to passively sit back and let in continue, intensify and for an indefinite amount of time into the future?  

[Dumbastheycome]

1 hour ago, jak2002003 said:

I got that.

 

But the poster can give reasons he believes the attacks occur, seeming to have sympathy with the people doing it, yet offers no suggestions how to stop these things.  We all know people have reasons for doing bad things, usually, but that does not excuse what they do if they are killing innocent people who have nothing to do with what ever they have against their society.  Also doing these things they are doing it in the name of their god and religion, not saying they are doing it for revenge for the West killing people in their countries....

 

We might think we understand why they are doing these things, but does that men we are willing to passively sit back and let in continue, intensify and for an indefinite amount of time into the future?  

I am not  sure that expressing  a personal theory on reasons is  actually expressing  sympathy. Fanatics are likely to use  any justification  and I doubt  anyone could have sympathy for the outcome. Islamist  fanaticism has  acquired a  sinister vogue attraction certainly. More  Muslims are  victims  than  any  in the  West. Revenge for the West killing people in other  peoples  countries is a simple extension of the fanatical call. Maybe the West  should  stop inviting the problem?

If the  expenditure currently put into aggressive conflict were to be  diverted to interception and defence  perhaps the world  would  be better off. Unfortunately that is unlikely due to the fact that the financial fanaticism overshadows the human collateral damage .