Electrical accessories

[bbz404]

So our newly built house will be completed soon and I have made sure that proper grounding was installed to all electrical outlets.

 

Last week, the water pump was installed and of course, the plug is only a 2-pin plug without grounding. Same as for our fridge. I've already searched the forum and you can use the grounding wire of the appliance and attach it to a new plug to connect it to the grounded outlet.

In HomePro, all I've found was this: HomePro Plug Anybody knows if these are suitable?

 

I want to do it for both the water pump and the fridge.

 

Second question: I'm also looking for an extension cord reel. Same problem: they have 3 pin outlets to connect to but the plug is only 2-pin and thus not grounded (Cord Reel). Any idea on where to find a suitable one (besides HomePro)?

 

And lastly: My dishwasher installed in our BKK rental house is from Siemens and came with a SCHUKO plug AND an adapter to the Thai 3-pin system since SCHUKO plugs are not grounded when connected to a Thai style outlet. Any idea where I can find these adapter cords or simple adapters? All I found on Lazada was SCHUKO to British 3 pin system which would work in Thailand I guess but I'd prefer the Thai round pin ones if possible. Also, I don't really trust Lazada cheap China items to be properly wired.

 

Thanks for all your help!

[bbz404]

At moderator: sorry please move this thread to the electrical forum

[bbz404]

By the way. Here are the photos of my consumer central unit. I don't see any RCD breakers and the main breaker is 100A. What are your thoughts on that? Shouldn't the water heaters, oven, electric hob, washing machine etc have RCD circuit breakers? Thanks for your help. 

[KhunBENQ]

Moved to the Electrical forum.

[Crossy]

Those plugs in the OP are horrible things, difficult to wire nicely and the cable sticks out of the wall, and they look awful.

 

Haco do some better looking ones

 

 

The P001 is 2-pin and the P002 3 pin. they let the cord hang vertically and are reasonably easy to wire, they're much more robust then they look.

 

Get them in Tesco, HomePro have them too on occasion (I buy a handful whenever I see them).

 

For your earth leakage protection a couple of solutions;-

 

• Add a whole house RCBO (Safe-T-Cut) in front of your main breaker, of course that means if it trips you lose all supply. http://www.safe-t-cut.com/en/products/specail-a-3phese.html
• Install individual RCBOs on circuits that really need them (water heaters, wet room outlets, outdoor stuff, pool).

 

Can you post a photo of the distribution board with the lid off, we need to see what format of breakers you have in order to recommend suitable RCBOs.

 

It's likely the plug-in "USA" type, and of course Safe-T-Cut don't do an RCBO that will fit, Schneider / Square-D or Bticino units should fit but take a breaker shopping with you.

 

EDIT A closer look at your photo shows the breakers to be the US10XX range, plug-in type. So you need plug-in RCBOs.

 

 

[bbz404]

Crossy, thanks a lot.

 

I will check Tesco for these plugs as HomePro didn't have them.

 

For the earth leakage, thanks also. I am no expert at all and I am trying to familiarize myself with some of the terminology.

I read in your IMPORTANT INFORMATION post that there is some regulation in place that required RCD protections for water heaters, outside outlets and so on. I wonder how we got our supply connected just 2 weeks ago even though we clearly don't have any RCD protection installed (I was not there for the supply connection by the PEA in Rayong)?

 

So I've made an appointment with the electrician and will discuss with him about these things next week. I will bring that PEA sheet with me. I think  I prefer individual RCDs for the concerned outlets so that we don't have faulty trips when we're not there (as this will be a weekend house).

The breakers are definitely the US style ones (Safe T Cut US breakers) but i will ask them to take the lid off and send me a photo. 

 

How come Safe-T-Cut don't sell RCD for US style breaker format even though everything is supplied from them? Weird. Everything is quite new to me but I want to have an as safe as possible installation from the start.

[Crossy]

7 minutes ago, bbz404 said:

I wonder how we got our supply connected just 2 weeks ago even though we clearly don't have any RCD protection installed

TiT

Have you had the PEA inspection for a permanent meter? I wonder if PEA have some alternative ruling for 3-phase (industrial?) supplies.

 

7 minutes ago, bbz404 said:

How come Safe-T-Cut don't sell RCD for US style breaker format even though everything is supplied from them? Weird.

Yup weird, but again, TiT.

[bbz404]

I don't know about the PEA inspection. But a permanent meter is installed and all the procedures have been done. Total cost was around 25,000 Baht for the meter and the PEA inspection.

 

For the electrician, I will print him some of the PEA knowledge documents found here (PEA) and ask him to walk me through the entire installation.

 

 

[Crossy]

1 minute ago, bbz404 said:

I don't know about the PEA inspection.

When you get your first bill check the unit rate, if it's around 4 Baht you're on a permanent supply, temporary supplies run at around 8 Baht per unit.

[bbz404]

Ok thanks will do.

 

Do you happen to have a source address for this image?

Or did you take a photo at the PEA?

 

Thanks

[Crossy]

It's a poster at a PEA office. Not sure which one as it was supplied by a board member.

 

[maxpower]

2 hours ago, Crossy said:

 I wonder if PEA have some alternative ruling for 3-phase (industrial?) supplies.

Yes they do and they are almost as amusing as those for single phase domestic supplies.

The PEA make it up as they go along. Rules change daily even by the hour.

 

Want a short term supply to feed a huge slum for the next 10 years - can do.
Want a short term supply to feed your noodle stand located on public land - can do
Want to connect new house to already overloaded service - can do
Want to dim everyone's lights with your heavy duty welding shop - can do

[KhunBENQ]

2 hours ago, bbz404 said:

I will check Tesco for these plugs as HomePro didn't have them.

I wouldn't expect to find much better at Tesco, they have the usual crap stuff only.

Your new house is in the Rayong area?

There will surely be specialized shops for electricians/electrical supplies or home marts with a wider selection.

"Worst case" would be going to Pattaya

Just that I can't help with names/addresses.

 

Would be worth a separate thread in the Eastern or Pattaya forum.

 

[shaemus]

From my experience in the hardware shops. the cheaper extension/multiplug adaptors have a hole for the earth but no wiring or earth connection available.

 

I buy the extension/adaptors with the international socket and the earth contact visible.

 

As for 3 pin plugs these are reasonably rare (for  me)  to see and the quality is dubious. i am pretty sure the thai 3 pin plug is the same as the US configuration.

 

I did change the leads on some appliances so i had local 3 pin moulded plugs which i bought from home pro or similar. I have had 2 fail,1 with a broken neutral, the other shorted internally and burst into flames. which was quite exciting. I had a quick look on Lazada, and these aren't ideal as they have the iec kettle lead. The ones i bought had just bare ends instead of the iec Kettle lead. http://www.lazada.co.th/anya-store/?scs=1&sc=KaLd&q=power

 

 

So: the moral of the story. Buy Cheap Buy Twice

[bbz404]

Yes, I don't want to buy cheap but am having trouble finding quality things. I've decided to bring some SCHUKO receptacles from Germany on my next trip and replace the Thai ones at least for some spots (kitchen, TV).

 

By the way, we've had our electric guy come in last weekend and I did a walkthrough of the installation. In the end, I am quite satisfied. He will change the normal Circuit breakers for the water heaters with RCD ones (saying they will trip regularly). He connected all three phases in a sequential order to the CBs. He color coded the whole system adequately (white for Neutral, green for Ground and yellow/red/blue for Live). He also wired every receptacle in the same way with the Live wire on the top. I've uploaded the center unit without the cover.

Also, it appears he used adequately sized cables for the big appliances (ceramic hob, oven). 

 

One question about something I don't know: He said that it is regulation to have a wire connect the Ground bar to the Neutral bar (can be seen in the photo - the big black cable going from the right to the left) to ensure that even a two-prong appliance has a ground connection in case of problems. Is that accurate?

Anything else I should check out?

[Crossy]

Yes, linking neutral and earth is a requirement here, Google Multiple Earthed Neutral (MEN).

 

Your MEN connection may not meet the requirements of a PEA inspector, the standard Thai method takes the incoming neutral to the ground bar first, then has a link to the neutral bar, what you have is electrically identical but the inspector may not see it that way. Leave it alone until he complains.

 

Installing your receptacles live on top means that the Haco plugs will have the cable pointing up the wall, they are intended to be used neutral on top (which is the safer option anyway).

 

Looks a pretty good job from here

 

Note - I do see some black wires on the neutral bus and there don't appear to be as many neutrals as there are breakers. Beware the borrowed neutral, could be a pain in the rear when you fit RCBOs.

[bbz404]

26 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Yes, linking neutral and earth is a requirement here, Google Multiple Earthed Neutral (MEN).

 

Your MEN connection may not meet the requirements of a PEA inspector, the standard Thai method takes the incoming neutral to the ground bar first, then has a link to the neutral bar, what you have is electrically identical but the inspector may not see it that way. Leave it alone until he complains.

 

Installing your receptacles live on top means that the Haco plugs will have the cable pointing up the wall, they are intended to be used neutral on top (which is the safer option anyway).

 

Looks a pretty good job from here

 

Note - I do see some black wires on the neutral bus and there don't appear to be as many neutrals as there are breakers. Beware the borrowed neutral, could be a pain in the rear when you fit RCBOs.

Thanks Crossy. 

I will leave it for sure, especially since it just passed the PEA inspection. 

 

For the wall receptacles, I have the ones in the picture (Panasonic). But you're saying L and N should be reversed right?

 

For the borrowed neutral, yes the electrician even said that. I'll ask him to leave the original breakers in case it doesn't work but that is definitely not my preference. Same for the ground, he connected only 4 wires and borrowed them to all appliances and receptacles. Not ideal for that part right?

 

 

 

 

 

[Crossy]

Just now, bbz404 said:

For the wall receptacles, I have the ones in the picture (Panasonic). But you're saying L and N should be reversed right?

Your L and N are in the correct relative positions but the whole outlet part should be the other way up (flip 180 so neutral is on top) if you intend using those Haco plugs. If not don't bother. We have a mixture of orientations, sparks installed them like yours, I've just flipped the ones I need to when using the Haco plugs.

 

Borrowing grounds shouldn't be an issue, but borrowed neutrals could be, particularly if they are on power circuits (danger of overloading the shared neutral).

 

[wayned]

On 9/1/2017 at 10:17 AM, KhunBENQ said:

I wouldn't expect to find much better at Tesco, they have the usual crap stuff only.

Your new house is in the Rayong area?

There will surely be specialized shops for electricians/electrical supplies or home marts with a wider selection.

"Worst case" would be going to Pattaya

Just that I can't help with names/addresses.

 

Would be worth a separate thread in the Eastern or Pattaya forum.

 

I bought a supply of  Haco plugs from these guys both P001 and P002.  Their website is only in Thai but if you email them and tell them what you want they do answer in English.  Cost of the plugs were 70 baht each (pricey) + EMS.

 

TONG-LANG HARDWARE LIMITED PARTNERSHIP

หจก.ทองหลาง ฮาร์ดแวร์

 

428 Moo 5, Tambol Klongtumru, Amphur Muangchonburi, Chonburi 20000

428 หมู่ 5 ต.คลองตำหรุ อ.เมืองชลบุรี จ.ชลบุรี 20000

Tel: 086 4235545

E-mail: [email protected]
Website: http://www.tonglang-hw.com
Facebook: www.facebook.com/TONGLANGONLINE

[sometimewoodworker]

On 11/09/2017 at 9:12 AM, bbz404 said:

Yes, I don't want to buy cheap but am having trouble finding quality things. I've decided to bring some SCHUKO receptacles from Germany on my next trip and replace the Thai ones at least for some spots (kitchen, TV).

 

I have found that the SCHUKO receptacles in my workshop seem to be good quality 

 

i can can only fit 2 in a 4 box unit with a couple of 2 prong sockets.

[bbz404]

22 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I have found that the SCHUKO receptacles in my workshop seem to be good quality 

 

i can can only fit 2 in a 4 box unit with a couple of 2 prong sockets.

I want to bring some from Germany. Do you think that these will fit in the Panasonic double sized receptacle cutout?

[sometimewoodworker]

2 minutes ago, bbz404 said:

I want to bring some from Germany. Do you think that these will fit in the Panasonic double sized receptacle cutout?

No. The Thai boxes are too small. You will need to bring the boxes to fit in the wall as well