rana391 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Unfortunately I was involved in a fatal motorbike accident in Nakhonsawan. The Motorcyclist was not wearing a helmet and struck his head on the road and died a few hours later. Initially the police laid no charges and left it to the insurance company and I to negotiate with the family. I have first class insurance, they initially offered 200k baht which was rejected out of hand. They demanded 300k from the insurance and 14,500.000 from me. The insurance company refused and the family then insisted I was charged. I have now been charged with reckless driving causing death and the family is pursuing me with great vigor through the courts for 14,500,000 baht. The fact he was not wearing a helmet and being in the wrong lane etc. does not seem to be important to either the family or the police. My insurance company is not being overly helpful, even though my insurance includes a bail bond of 200k I ended up posting my own bail as it seemed the insurance company was not too enthusiastic about paying and delayed the process while I spent some time with some interesting characters in the cells! One of the major concerns I have is the family is bring a lawyer up from Bangkok to assist the prosecutor at the first hearing. Neither my lawyer or myself can understand that. I have not entered a plea at this stage. If anyone can help me understand the process it would be greatly appreciated. C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neeranam Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Are there any witnesses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rana391 Posted January 4, 2009 Author Share Posted January 4, 2009 No witnesses but there appears to be no dispute as to what happened, we do not get access to the evidence from the prosecutor until after the first hearing apparently . In fact the accident itself seems irrelevant to the case! C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joskydive Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Unfortunately I was involved in a fatal motorbike accident in Nakhonsawan. The Motorcyclist was not wearing a helmet and struck his head on the road and died a few hours later. Initially the police laid no charges and left it to the insurance company and I to negotiate with the family. I have first class insurance, they initially offered 200k baht which was rejected out of hand. They demanded 300k from the insurance and 14,500.000 from me. The insurance company refused and the family then insisted I was charged. I have now been charged with reckless driving causing death and the family is pursuing me with great vigor through the courts for 14,500,000 baht. The fact he was not wearing a helmet and being in the wrong lane etc. does not seem to be important to either the family or the police. My insurance company is not being overly helpful, even though my insurance includes a bail bond of 200k I ended up posting my own bail as it seemed the insurance company was not too enthusiastic about paying and delayed the process while I spent some time with some interesting characters in the cells! One of the major concerns I have is the family is bring a lawyer up from Bangkok to assist the prosecutor at the first hearing. Neither my lawyer or myself can understand that. I have not entered a plea at this stage. If anyone can help me understand the process it would be greatly appreciated. C I'm sorry to hear about the dilema you are in. There are two sections in the Criminal Code 2005 -2008 which they could persue you for and the charge of reckless driving causing death would add weight against you, although, from what you have written I doubt this case would come to much. Section 290 Whoever, causes death to the other person by inflicting injury upon the body of such person without intent to cause death, shall be punished with imprisonment of three to fifteen years. Section 291 Whoever, doing the act by negligence and that act causing the other person to death, shall be imprisoned not out of ten years or fined not out of twenty thousand baht. Getting a Lawyer from Bangkok, I believe, is a scare tactic, possibly to make you pay up, as they are all qualified the same no matter where they work. You could even find the Lawyer is a relative for that matter. Your Lawyer should have advised you by now of these two sections above, if not, why not? Is he a local Lawyer? Is he related in any way? Start asking questions, I would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davyboy Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Unfortunately I was involved in a fatal motorbike accident in Nakhonsawan. The Motorcyclist was not wearing a helmet and struck his head on the road and died a few hours later. Initially the police laid no charges and left it to the insurance company and I to negotiate with the family. I have first class insurance, they initially offered 200k baht which was rejected out of hand. They demanded 300k from the insurance and 14,500.000 from me. The insurance company refused and the family then insisted I was charged. I have now been charged with reckless driving causing death and the family is pursuing me with great vigor through the courts for 14,500,000 baht. The fact he was not wearing a helmet and being in the wrong lane etc. does not seem to be important to either the family or the police. My insurance company is not being overly helpful, even though my insurance includes a bail bond of 200k I ended up posting my own bail as it seemed the insurance company was not too enthusiastic about paying and delayed the process while I spent some time with some interesting characters in the cells! One of the major concerns I have is the family is bring a lawyer up from Bangkok to assist the prosecutor at the first hearing. Neither my lawyer or myself can understand that. I have not entered a plea at this stage. If anyone can help me understand the process it would be greatly appreciated. C It all comes down to the fact that you are a Farang, and the family know this, and that's why they are pushing this. Farang has money Maak, Maark! The police will sit on the sidelines while you sort this out! My Thai step daughter was knocked off her motorcycle by a thai man driving a small van,and was obviouly his fault, confirmed by the police,but they just wanted to leave it for my wife to talk to the insurance rep, That was in Nakon Sawan. I lost money on this accident!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imaneggspurt Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 (edited) Its the unwritten law that anyone involved with having a bike down is automatically to blame that would worry me, also you are a FARANG !.if i were you id do some serious negotiating before it goes on, ,forget all your western rights here, even in death greed rears its ugly head in LOS, Edited January 4, 2009 by imaneggspurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GungaDin Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Its the unwritten law that anyone involved with having a bike down is automatically to blame that would worry me, also you are a FARANG !.if i were you I'd do some serious negotiating before it goes on, ,forget all your western rights here, even in death greed rears its ugly head in LOS, Good advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtoad Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 (edited) Its the unwritten law that anyone involved with having a bike down is automatically to blame that would worry me, also you are a FARANG !.if i were you I'd do some serious negotiating before it goes on, ,forget all your western rights here, even in death greed rears its ugly head in LOS, Good advice. 14,500,000 baht for a death caused by somebody elses, negligence compated to 20,000 baht offered to families who lost loved ones in the fire at Santika. Seems the Farang is being set up, Best get a good lawyer. Edited January 4, 2009 by mrtoad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundman Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Two years ago a staff member of mine hit and killed a pedestrian, a completely un-avoidable accident, however he was still charged with wrongful death (the man who died was a homeless man and no family to negotiate with). The accident was 100% not his fault, the homeless man ran accross a dark major highway at 1.00am in the morning. He received a three year suspended sentence with community work. The fact that you are a farang is neither here nor there in the court's eyes. You will be treated as any other person will be treated. Suggest you contact Forum Sponsors "Isaan Lawyers" or your own lawyer and have some representation during the negotiation phase. The whole deal with my staff member cost me about 100k baht including sub-standard repairs which I later had to re-repair on my car. The police were suggesting, if we could find the guys family, the payoff would have been in the vicinty of 30,000B to 50,000B, no more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davyboy Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Its the unwritten law that anyone involved with having a bike down is automatically to blame that would worry me, also you are a FARANG !.if i were you I'd do some serious negotiating before it goes on, ,forget all your western rights here, even in death greed rears its ugly head in LOS, Good advice. 14,500,000 baht for a death caused by somebody elses, negligence compated to 20,000 baht offered to families who lost loved ones in the fire at Santika. Seems the Farang is being set up, Best get a good lawyer. Yes a very good lawyer from Bangkok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobi Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Beware all Thai lawyers. They do not have the same ethics as their western counterparts and are always looking for ways to make money - especially when farangs are involved. They could easily collude with the family to make you lose the case and share in the pay out. Find someone you can 100 % trust. Not easy but it will be worth it in the end. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtoad Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I wonder how much of a cut the BIB are looking for from that 14,500,000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dotcom Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Listen to Soundman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Best of luck to you and keep us informed as this develops. It has implications for all ofus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davyboy Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Best of luck to you and keep us informed as this develops. It has implications for all ofus. Yes, please do. This is how these forums help all us expats!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundman Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Beware all Thai lawyers.They do not have the same ethics as their western counterparts and are always looking for ways to make money - especially when farangs are involved. They could easily collude with the family to make you lose the case and share in the pay out. Find someone you can 100 % trust. Not easy but it will be worth it in the end. Good luck. Not all lawyers, however there are many situations that I have heard about that fall into the exact pattern mobi has outlined above. The last sentence really sums it up when talking about laywers IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dotcom Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I think Issan Lawyers is your best shot at finding a guy to represent you. No conflicts. The sooner the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tso310 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 As the motorcyclist was not wearing a helmet would it be possible to counter sue for recklessness or something similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joskydive Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 As the motorcyclist was not wearing a helmet would it be possible to counter sue for recklessness or something similar. It should certainly be part of his defence and the fact that the motorcyclist was in the wrong lane in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davyboy Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 As the motorcyclist was not wearing a helmet would it be possible to counter sue for recklessness or something similar. Interesting thought, but I don't think so when children as young as 9 year old ride motor bikes without helmets, and the police just turn a blind eye to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundman Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 As the motorcyclist was not wearing a helmet would it be possible to counter sue for recklessness or something similar. Interesting thought, but I don't think so when children as young as 9 year old ride motor bikes without helmets, and the police just turn a blind eye to this. Quote (not exact) from the judge in my staff members case. It doesn't matter who was right or wrong, the fact remains that you killed another human being and therfore have to live with that for the rest of your life which will include the punishment handed out by this court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dotcom Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Sorry Soundman. What utter rubbish. The motorcyclist was 100% responsible for his own death. What if some twit jumps from a condo & lands on your car passing by? Same logic? Bring on the ministry of Common Sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dotcom Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 btw. If this was Thai on Thai they wouldn't be asking stupid money. Santika victims being offered 80,000. About the going rate. (for an accident). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSingh Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Its the unwritten law that anyone involved with having a bike down is automatically to blame that would worry me, also you are a FARANG !.if i were you I'd do some serious negotiating before it goes on, ,forget all your western rights here, even in death greed rears its ugly head in LOS, Good advice. 14,500,000 baht for a death caused by somebody elses, negligence compated to 20,000 baht offered to families who lost loved ones in the fire at Santika. Seems the Farang is being set up, Best get a good lawyer. Or do the off, if you've got your Passport... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundman Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Sorry Soundman. What utter rubbish. The motorcyclist was 100% responsible for his own death.What if some twit jumps from a condo & lands on your car passing by? Same logic? Bring on the ministry of Common Sense. According to this judge - yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumball Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Sorry Soundman. What utter rubbish. The motorcyclist was 100% responsible for his own death.What if some twit jumps from a condo & lands on your car passing by? Same logic? Bring on the ministry of Common Sense. According to this judge - yes. What common sense ? TiT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobi Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I think Issan Lawyers is your best shot at finding a guy to represent you. No conflicts.The sooner the better. I think that is a very good recommendation. There is a Canadian guy who runs it, and unlike most farang lawyers, he is really into the problems that farangs encounter in daily living in Thailand. My friend in Australia used him (and my friend is a lawyer and knows Thailand and speaks and reads Thai) and said they were very good. I have also had some minor dealings with them, and if I had a problem I would use them. They are also not expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haybilly Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Unfortunately I was involved in a fatal motorbike accident in Nakhonsawan. The Motorcyclist was not wearing a helmet and struck his head on the road and died a few hours later. Initially the police laid no charges and left it to the insurance company and I to negotiate with the family. I have first class insurance, they initially offered 200k baht which was rejected out of hand. They demanded 300k from the insurance and 14,500.000 from me. The insurance company refused and the family then insisted I was charged. I have now been charged with reckless driving causing death and the family is pursuing me with great vigor through the courts for 14,500,000 baht. The fact he was not wearing a helmet and being in the wrong lane etc. does not seem to be important to either the family or the police. My insurance company is not being overly helpful, even though my insurance includes a bail bond of 200k I ended up posting my own bail as it seemed the insurance company was not too enthusiastic about paying and delayed the process while I spent some time with some interesting characters in the cells! One of the major concerns I have is the family is bring a lawyer up from Bangkok to assist the prosecutor at the first hearing. Neither my lawyer or myself can understand that. I have not entered a plea at this stage. If anyone can help me understand the process it would be greatly appreciated. C Which is your insurance company? They seem to be sreiousy NOT doing their job--first class insurance? Also, isn't 200K a bit low for bail bond, without going and reading my policy I am unsure though I thought my BB was much higher--is it normally only 200K? P.S. Very sorry to hear your story--could have been any of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brahmburgers Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 P.S. Very sorry to hear your story--could have been any of us. Indeed! Also sorry to hear the motorbike driver's family is gold-digging - because you're a farang. Best of luck to you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kf6vci Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Get in touch with your embassy! They have a list of trusted lawyers as well... A friend is an accident investigator (sorry, overseas). Try hard to establish the facts like i) he was in the wrong lane ii) blood test for substances? Maybe he was drunk?! iii) speeds involved etc. Q: does the family have to pay upfront for their law suit or is there contingency in Thailand? This might seem cynical - but they may run out of cash, then settle. *** Being a biker, I feel strongly and would hope in death this horrible accident can be forgiven, so to speak, irrespective of guilt. As the driver, i would hope for forgiveness and to settle - but not permitting blackmail and greed. On the Autobahn, some cars pass me at 130 km/h about 1 meter. I could touch them! Normally, a biker is very aware how he would fare in an accident with a car. So what happened?? Was he drunk or driving recklessly, changing lanes? The "no witnesses" bit makes this all the more tragic as such an accident should never happen! over time, let's hope they will become reasonable. And you better have your attorney force the insurance to do its job, including to countersue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now