KhunHeineken

46 days inside Australia every 3 years should see you ok, but that will come out in the wash. Is that the majority of expats living in Thailand? Many haven't been back to Australia in several years. Any advice for those guys, and they are many?

Something discussed months ago, yet, some either forgot, disbelieve, or refuse to accept. Changed to 30% recently. Not much better though. The pension is deemed and income. The pension is taxable. Expats are non residents, but hey, it's only for guy guys like Paul Hogan. Centerlink know you are outside Australia, but fear not Centerlink, it's the TRD an Aussie pensioner must fear.

Changed to 30% on 1st July 2024. At this stage, but they have given warning of of world wide taxation. They have signed up for it. I have posted Article 19 of the DTA deals with "government service pensions." Posted a youtube video about it also. Are they wrong? By Australia, after the proposed changes are passed, or by Thailand, early 2025? Foreign resident tax rates 2020 to 2025 Foreign resident tax rates for 2019–20 to 2024–25. Foreign resident tax rates 2024–25 Taxable income Tax on this income 0 – $135,000 30c for each $1 $135,001 – $190,000 $40,500 plus 37c for each $1 over $135,000 $190,001 and over $60,850 plus 45c for each $1 over $190,000

Why didn't you? They like bureaucracy here. Also, can't hurt to have a TIN up your sleeve,

It's Australia's 30% that is the most concerning. Thailand's tax is chicken feed.

And governments never promised you a tax free retirement.

But you have world wide income, right? Watch this space.

No mention of Australia and world wide tax. Have you considered it?

Do you think it's going to 100% tax free living in Australia, also?

I was at the Singapore F1, and lowering my Thai tax liability at the same time.

That's the way I read it, and has been said by tax professionals. The aged pension is not exempt under the DTA. That's it. Happy to read any other links etc. Article 18 relies on the provisions of Article 19, and Article 19 is about government service pensions, not the aged pension. True, and I haven't heard of anyone earning a passive income in Australia being taxed in Thailand also, including myself. Why do you think they want to update 90 year old laws? The TRD won't miss their chance to make "something" out of this. As said before, it could be as simple as 1000 baht for a TRD certificate for the annual extension, and have nothing to do with the correct amount of tax one should pay. It could all end up being laughable.

Do you know how long before, with a half serious attempt at "pretending" you have the "intention" of staying?

I've been in Singapore for the F1, so catching up on some posts. Brought a wad of cash back. Not over the declarable amount. May just help lower any possible tax liability early next year. I'm giving Thailand a chance this year. So, Will27, perhaps you can clarify, and go on the record. Is the pension deemed an income? Yes, or no? Is the pension taxable? Yes or no? Are expats who have been living in Thailand for several years non residents for tax purposes? Yes or no? After the proposed changes have been passed, will expats be able to continue to declare they are residents of Australia for tax purposes? Yes or no? Is there are tax free threshold for non residents for tax purposes? Yes or no? Are there any exemptions in the proposed changes for pensioners? Yes or no? Is the non resident for tax purposes for income derived from Australia 30% from $0 to $135,000? Yes or no? Given your answers to the above questions, how do you propose any expats deriving an income from Australia escape paying no resident tax? Ah, so now the DTA gets wheeled out. Good old Article 18 and Article 19. Article 18 relies on the provisions of Article 19, and Article 19 is all about "Governmnet Service" and their pensions. I have posted a youtube video, with input from a Chartered Accountant in Australia about it. I posted it in the tax forum. I'll post it here also. Another member posted some screenshots from it. No exemptions for the aged pension in the DTA. Is that a yes or no from you? It's not about who is right and wrong. It's about the correct answers to the above questions. Bear in mind, Centerlink already know when a pensioner is outside of Australia for 6 weeks, thus the cutting off of the supplements. Many accounts of this in this forum. Why is it difficult to contemplate they could also withhold 30% in non resident tax? Just waiting for you to get off your meds and deflect all of the above with a one line personal attack, but I am interested in why you, and every other aged pensioner, thinks the aged pension will stand outside of ANY non resident tax. If I could hear that argument with more than comments about Paul Hogan and Medicare Cards, I would be happy to consider replies. Sell it to me how YOU are right, and the answers to the above questions, and the below accountant, are wrong.

How do you propose to get around the non resident tax bracket in Australia? As many members have said in the tax forum, it's not Thailand's tax rate you have to be worried about, it's your home country's tax we should be concerned about. Perhaps in Thailand, but most of it is already in place in Australia. Eg. Cutting off the pension supplements after 6 weeks outside of Australia, despite the recipient not informing Centerlink they are leaving Australia.

Correct. The elephant in the room. Yes, and not just for guys like Paul Hogan. Perhaps not as many years as you think. Computers doing most of the heavy lifting.

There is no tax free threshold for non residents. If you have a link to show there is, post it. As I have said, pensioners WANT / NEED to be a resident of Australia for taxation purposes, to avail themselves of the tax free threshold, but they live in Thailand full time. How will they be able to continue this "domiciled" appearance, after the 183 day law is passed? That's the luxury, or loopholes, of the current 90 year old laws. They are set to change. In the future, the ATO will have information from immigration that you are a non resident for taxation purposes, thus, 30%. Immigration is already talking to Centerlink, hence the pension supplements being cut off after 6 weeks, despite expats not reporting their departure from Australian. There have been many reports of this. The ATO data base will line up also, and there will be no way to request a review, or appeal. 183 out is 183 out, in the same way 180 days in Thailand is 180 days in. They will reinstate you for you. Why do you think you are running the show? They are. I have a feeling it's not going to be as simple that. In my opinion, they will not understand, nor care, about any documents you may produce about pre-2024. Here's your bill, pay, or leave, or take us to Court and die trying. You'll pay, because the alternative is soooo much worse.

I believe it changed on the 1st July 2024 to 30%. See below. Now, I know what you would all like to think. You are an Australian citizen, so not a foreign tax resident, but they are two completely different things. No, the below is not just for the super rich Chinese investing in Australia, or Paul Hogan. In the future, the law will be for every Aussie deriving an income within Australia, who has been outside Australia for more than 183 days. I agree. I would rather be taxed for small in Thailand as a tax resident, than taxed for 30% in Australia, as a non resident. Interesting times ahead. Note below, from $0. No tax free threshold for non residents of Australia for tax purposes. Foreign resident tax rates 2020 to 2025 Foreign resident tax rates for 2019–20 to 2024–25. Foreign resident tax rates 2024–25 Taxable income Tax on this income 0 – $135,000 30c for each $1 $135,001 – $190,000 $40,500 plus 37c for each $1 over $135,000 $190,001 and over $60,850 plus 45c for each $1 over $190,

Correct. Times are changing. It's not rocket science to see the direction all of this is going. I look at it this way, basically, an Interpol, but for taxation of the masses. No where to run, no where to hide, from the tax man.

I agree. That's the current state of affairs. Nothing Thailand can do, but what about Australia? When the proposed changes are passed, interesting for when the pension is coming to an Australian who is a non resident for taxation purposes, and can be easily proven so. You see, yourself, and many others, only see Thailand wanting to tax residents for tax purposes, but many don't want to even contemplate Australia wanting to tax non residents for tax purposes. That's only for guys like Paul Hogan, right? No issue before, with the "domicile" law, but that's going to change, for sure. What pensioners want, when the proposed changes are passed, is to remain a tax resident of Australia, for the tax free threshold, and I have no idea how, when they are living full time in Thailand, but to also escape Thailand taxation, despite living in Thailand more than 180 days a year. Tough gig to pull off, particularly for pensioners, as the payer is also the taxer, which is Centerlink and the ATO.

Hence why many return just before pension age and do the 2 years thereafter. However, I have asked the question, can returning prior to pension age be easier, and maybe shorter?

Some want it both ways. They want to say their pension can not / will not be taxed in Australia, now, and in the future, and also not in Thailand, in 2025, or in the future, due to the DTA. In my opinion, you can't have it both ways, due to your residency status, with the proviso you are living in Thailand full time. Time will time, both in Australia, and in Thailand, but the good old days are coming to an end.

Interesting. So, after being away for years, if over 60, can one fly straight back to Australia and claim Newstart, whilst waiting for the aged pension and portability? Do you have to re-establish residency for Newstart?

I had met some Aussie backpackers in some bars, all over Thailand, some years ago. I started some chit chat. How long is your trip, where are you going etc. Ended up more than a few told me they were on what I think was the old Newstart, called Austudy. They could do a Mickey Mouse online course, submitting assignments online, whilst backpacking around South East Asia. Basically, a working holiday on the Australian tax payer, for 2 years. When I asked what sort of course is that, it was some Certificate 3 or Certificate 4 in b*gger all. When asked "How can that take a year?" Answer, "I'll do another one when I finish this one, so 2 years." So, one each each. I remember asking one kid where he was from, and him telling me from one of the wealthier suburbs of Sydney. He appeared to be an over confident smart a**, but well spoken, thus possibly a good education, so I believed it to be true. Australia - The Lucky Country.

Any means testing for Newstart? Just interested how at the age of 63 he could have fronted up like an 18 year old and claimed it. Of course, there's methods of moving one's assets in a way that brings one under any means testing in Australia.

I believe the member was discussing "pretending" in order to be granted a pension, and achieve portability. In other words, "pretend" you have the "intention" of remaining in Australia, thus entitled to portability. With all that's going on with the proposed changes in Australia, and the Thailand taxation issue, I was wondering if this "portability" issue could be argued against, once the proposed changes are passed into legislation, in Australia. I mean, if after 183 days one is deemed a resident for taxation purposes, could one argue, at law, as a test case, "well, you've deemed me a resident because I have been here 184 days, so I want my portability." Could it be a double edge sword for the government. I mean, one set of laws classify you a resident, but they want to use another law to say you haven't met the criteria for residency, thus no portability. Could be interesting as test cases come up.