vermin on arrival

40 minutes ago, Anna Rak said:

Sorry I have no link, however it should be on the Sky News web site somewhere, as last night it came as Breaking news and my understanding of policy is, if quarantine is lifted for arrivals from countries then it has to be a reciprocal agreement.  

Please read my post #121 above. It is only reciprocal with amber colored nations with similar infection rates as the UK. Since Malaysia is green, it will not be reciprocal. Malaysia will have no quarantine to UK, but the UK will have restrictions the other way. In this case, with my current understanding of the Malaysian situation there will be no tourists admitted from the UK to Malaysia. The best the UK may get sometime in the future will probably be business travelers with quarantine. Even Singapore will not be allowed to send tourists after August 17, but only business travelers. I wish it were otherwise

@Sheryl I think this will go nowhere and is similar to the things we are hearing from the Thai government now. I would be overjoyed if it actually happened even if it was just for Asean. I am starting to give up hope on making it back to my home in Taiwan.

1 hour ago, Anna Rak said:

The U.K. government has removed quarantine restrictions for people arriving from Malaysia and Brunei, this will be reciprocal and I do know from many previous trips that Malaysia in particular has some beautiful beaches, so good bye Thailand's tourism industry, you have missed the boat.

Actually found this for the other way, but uncertain what the UKs restrictions will be. I assume not allowed.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53273048

"Green" countries, such as New Zealand, have "very low" levels of coronavirus and will therefore have restrictions for UK arrivals

"Amber" countries - including France, Germany, Italy and Spain - will have "reciprocal arrangements" in place, meaning travellers from the UK will not have to quarantine on arrival

Malaysia will be green so no reciprocal relationship.

What a big time bust....stopped 37 tablets being transported from BKK to Udon...tipped off by an informer. No mention of the warrant the Chiang Mai police wanted the other guy on and again was a tip off to immigration. Well worth a 2 billion baht expenditure.

40 minutes ago, Anna Rak said:

The U.K. government has removed quarantine restrictions for people arriving from Malaysia and Brunei, this will be reciprocal and I do know from many previous trips that Malaysia in particular has some beautiful beaches, so good bye Thailand's tourism industry, you have missed the boat.

Link please. I am skeptical of Malaysia allowing this to a country with as many infections as the UK has had. Is it for all travelers? I searched and found nothing on Malaysia allowing tourists from the UK with no quarantine.

 I found this : https://www.thestar.com.my/news/focus/2020/08/02/bubbling-with-hope-for-malaysia

“Our next strategy is stimulating cross-border tourism, where we welcome international arrivals from short-haul markets like Asean countries through ‘travel bubbles’, ” he tells Sunday Star. and...

“We are also encouraged by the recent agreement between Malaysia and Singapore to implement the Reciprocal Green Lane and Periodic Commuting Arrangement, ” Musa says.

With the agreement, cross-border travel between Malaysia and Singapore on the Causeway will be allowed from Aug 17, but only for official, business and work purposes.

Malaysia has plenty to do while waiting for the borders to open up for other countries, though."

So looks very limited, only for neighbors and right now restricted to business travel with Singapore. Anything more than that seems for in the future.

I do see that the UK has put them on the green list, but see no evidence that it is reciprocal.

2 minutes ago, paulikens said:

that wasnt what the bangkok post was saying yesterday. i think thai visa is like the british media now just wanna be all doom and gloom, cmon thai visa lets have something positive.

No the thai government keeps going back and forth and different agencies say different things based on their self interest. I think also they are afraid of saying to people that things are done for a very long while because the people who are getting crushed will probably go to the streets with pitchforks and torches. They need to keep giving hope and then saying....oh no we can't do it right now because of this reason...maybe next month. Bait and switch. Also, they would need to come up with some new and creative policies that they are not intellectually capable of doing or are afraid of doing to address the long term problem of a number of years that this looks like it will be and kicking the can down the road to see if some miracle comes out and bails their butts out.

20 hours ago, Sheryl said:

No one is going to want to take a tourist trip only to face 2 week quarantine when they come home.

There are many long stay visitors ( I was one. but I was done here before this started unfortunately I missed my possibility to get back to Taiwan by 2 hours), people who come for 4 to 6 months a year who would be happy to get a couple of covid tests on either side and do a 14 day quarantine to come here. Make things easier for them to come and they will. Maybe make home quarantine an option for those who have them, strictly enforced by government workers with large penalties for breaking it. Have them strongly monitored by health care workers who are paid by the government (multiple visits per day to check on them ,etc). This will give jobs to many of the millions of unemployed Thais.

On 8/3/2020 at 3:45 PM, uhuh said:

You mentioned Taiwan (24m people),  which doesn't seem to have a disease reservoir.

 

And here is another case just from today. Japanese man who returned to Japan after a trip to Taiwan. Was negative and did his quarantine in Taiwan (negative covid test required on both sides of it) and then returned to Japan and tested positive. For sure, there is a some small level reservoir in Taiwan.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3980974

I feel this relevant to the Thailand case because Taiwan practiced much more rigorous controls starting in January when Thailand was pretty laissez-faire with travel restrictions, etc. All of the contacts are testing out negative in all 4 cases I mentioned for Taiwan. If Taiwan is having this, then most definitely Thailand also has some low level reservoir here. Again this can be seen in the migrant workers returning to their home countries from Thailand who test positive on return. I believe it's willful self delusional to think otherwise. It seems every country wants to show that their countries are doing wonderfully and all the cases are coming from the bad foreigners and that the other nations are the problem.

  However, the asymptotic cases are most likely less infectious. Most likely if the safety protocols in daily life are maintained there will no major outbreak here now. I think the hysteria over the asymptomatic Egyptian in Rayong was away over the top. I do think the situation is well under control in both Taiwan and Thailand, but covid is here.

58 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

Havent they clamped down in visas in Vietnam recently ?

Only giving people 30 days at a time or something

Nope just go in and pay it for months at time. Super easy. More expensive than here per month though.

On 8/3/2020 at 3:45 PM, uhuh said:

You mentioned Taiwan (24m people),  which doesn't seem to have a disease reservoir.

 

Here is the article concerning the case of the Belgian. An NTU professor says he believes there the Belgian most likely contracted the case in Taipei in late June, and that he is certain that there are a small number of asymptomatic case in Taiwan. The Taiwan CECC denies this.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3980229

On 8/3/2020 at 3:45 PM, uhuh said:

You mentioned Taiwan (24m people),  which doesn't seem to have a disease reservoir.

Same for New Zealand AFAIK, and Mauritius and quite a few of small islands and territories. 

Vietnam is bigger (95m) and most probably didn't have a disease reservoir for quite a while,  the current outbreak has probably been imported. That can happen if you have hard to control land borders,  and that may happen to Thailand, too.

 

I think it is circulating at a low level everywhere (except for maybe in some truly isolated places). You have the migrant workers leaving Thailand for Cambo, Laos and Myanmar and testing positive. Also, look at the current outbreak in Australia which appeared to be almost covid free. I don't believe anyone is blaming that on overseas travelers importing it.

Taiwan has had two cases of a Thai and a Japanese (both asymptomatic) being repatriated recently and testing positive on arrival at their home counties from Taiwan, and they couldn't find the source. Taiwan also just had a Belgian engineer(also asymptomatic) who arrived in May and was tested before and after his 14 day quarantine and then tested positive on his way out. The health authorities don't know if this is just residue from his March infection, or if he was infected in Taiwan. In one article, which I can't seem to locate, it was admitted that they believe that they have low levels of asymptomatic cases that are circulating, but they are not testing for.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3979063

1 hour ago, at15 said:

I dont know what you guys are looking at but its pretty clear this time they dont plan to extend. I would not be sitting around doing nothing. Need to be planning now. 

 

"Short term visa holders have to prepare for departing the kingdom within September 26, 2020 except for in case of reason of necessity..... by using an embassy letter to get an additional 30 days."

 

/

I won't be sitting around doing nothing, but according to ubon joe, the wording of the decree in the royal gazette was exactly the same as the prior one so that in and of itself is not a lock for something to be different. The date of this amnesty's expiration has led some of the experts on thaivisa, whose opinion I respect, to believe that it is highly unlikely for this amnesty to be extended. However, we won't know for certain until sometime in September. I will consider my options.

3 hours ago, GeorgeCross said:

but something has changed - gov has implied, in the first line no less, extend or leave by 26th. this is not an amnesty extension it's a grace period. everyone has 2 months to get their immigration affairs in order.

so if i follow your logic, something ELSE would need to change in order for them to drop the grace period or extend it. my money would be on a second thai wave being the only thing to change their stance (internationally it would be seen as cruel to force people through airports under this circumstance) anything else would be seen as "they were advised months ago"

 

 

grace period for getting extensions and sorting out long stay visas. If you read ubon joe's posts there is no difference in the language of the thai text when moving to the new date for those on tourist visas of any type. It is just a different word being used by the translators.

4 hours ago, Chivas said:

Personally I think Thai immigration has been incredibly generous to date but clearly that cant continue indefinately because this Covid is here to stay

So yes September 26th and you're out or on overstay with fines levied.

It's not Immigration that has been generous it is the MFA and the cabinet, and in the end, they will decide the situation, and they can decide to overrule immigration's decisions and desires as they have already done twice. Of course that doesn't mean that the cabinet will do it a 3rd time, but, for all the people who resent those on amnesty and want them out, it is not immigration's decision.

On 7/31/2020 at 3:26 PM, Logosone said:

 Or you could now go to Taiwan for "medical" reasons

Don't act as if this special permit is a gimme. On a Taiwan forum, a person said his wife was denied entrance for a medical permit based on maternity medicine (she is pregnant). I have read it is only for serious medical problems. I have an untreated umbilical hernia from  a failed surgery I had in Taiwan at a hospital where I am a regular patient. I will try to get a permit based on having a new surgery to correct it so i can get back home. If I am denied the permit to enter you will know that it will only be given for serious medical emergencies or problems. They will not be given out for regular check-ups.

8 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

How much more explicit do you need them to be - naming the foreigners?

It's evidently clear to me:

Short term Visa holders (TR,TS,VOA and VE) are required to leave the Country by Sept 26th, with the exceptions of 1) Medical illness - for which a medical certificate is required, or 2) No flight availability or a further Covid outbreak situation - requiring an Embassy confirmation letter.

Each permission of stay shall be granted for no more than 30 days.

My point was that from what I understand that nations such as Japan and Indonesia explicitly stated that there would be no further amnesty and people had to leave. So basically don't even think it may happen you need to be out.

Did the first Thai amnesty have any wording that implied similar things or was it more ambiguous than the current statement? Certainly all the embassies were very emphatic before that all had to leave by July 31 or get long term visas and no letters were would be extension letters written so going by their statements it is not as conclusive as going by what the Thai authorities state.  I am not trying to argue or belabor the point; I just want to make sure that I have a very clear understanding of the situation and know what options/possibilities there are and how I may move forward to try get back to Taiwan of maybe make my way Laos. I am not doing well at the moment and just trying to be sure about things.

18 minutes ago, Maestro said:

 

If I understand you correctly you are talking about

• a man who is a national of the USA, and
• who got a loan for the US State Department to buy a ticket for his repatriation, and
• who "is stuck in the land of the free", meaning the USA.

As he is currently in the USA, to what country is trying to repatriate?

Well it means that now after been repatriated, he cannot fly out to any of the nations which are currently open to travelers from the US since they won't give him his bill. I don't know what his current finances are or what his current plans are, but that is not a good thing to see. It's not as if the only traveling going on in the world now is repatriation. Some countries are opening up.

42 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

I believe you are correct, as there is no other rational explanation for choosing September 26 as prolonged Amnesty expiry date.

Many tourists will of course be longer than six months in Thailand, having arrived before March 26.

But the psychological 6-month Amnesty period, shows they mean it and that a further Amnesty extension is very unlikely.

38 minutes ago, vermin on arrival said:

I know Asians are not always direct, but in this case, why don't they just say it explicitly? So if they change their minds down the road they don't lose face? Or do they not want to be directly harsh and say it? Like when they said yes you can still come to Thailand, and then gave impossible conditions right before the airport shut down.

@Peter DenisAnd it is also interesting because from what I know both Japan and Indonesia came right out and explicitly stated (Japan after 1 amnesty and Indonesia with it's second one month amnesty) when their amnesties would definitively end. I am sure that Taiwan and Korea would both be very explicit about a firm end point. Why is Thailand not doing that? Is it that hey like to dance around the issue more and give themselves more wriggle room if they need it so they never can be explicitly shown to be "wrong" or flip flopping and lose face from it? Here we need to speculate more from the information then many other places in Asia.

6 minutes ago, musicscene said:

Do you get your Epsom salts in Thailand as I have not been able to find any after using the supply I brought with me from the Uk 

Yes, they have it here. There is a place on Ratchdamneon by Democracy Monument that makes it. Unfortunately, I tossed the box. I get mine at the local Green Corner here in BKK.

16 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

I believe you are correct, as there is no other rational explanation for choosing September 26 as prolonged Amnesty expiry date.

Many tourists will of course be longer than six months in Thailand, having arrived before March 26.

But the psychological 6-month Amnesty period, shows they mean it and that a further Amnesty extension is very unlikely.

I know Asians are not always direct, but in this case, why don't they just say it explicitly? So if they change their minds down the road they don't lose face? Or do they not want to be directly harsh and say it? Like when they said yes you can still come to Thailand, and then gave impossible conditions right before the airport shut down.

3 hours ago, jackdd said:

If we are talking about immigration: If the cabinet doesn't extend the amnesty and people would leave immigration doesn't get anything. But immigration knows that many people want to stay, and if these people have to choose between leaving or paying an agent to be able to stay, they will choose the latter, which means backhanders for immigration. Thus they recommend the cabinet to not extend the amnesty.

Of course on the other hand of the spectrum there is for example the TAT, i guess they recommend to let the remaining tourists stay, they spend at least some money in Thailand.

Spot on. Not extending the amnesty and fearmongering makes big money for many IOs and their partnership with agents..

49 minutes ago, BritTim said:

None of this is set in stone, obviously, and the cabinet could decide there are more important considerations than just enforcing immigration rules. However, I consider the September 26 date (exactly six months from March 26) to be significant. Immigration, I believe, is arguing that no tourist should be here longer than six months. If the cabinet was not swayed by that argument, I think the new deadline would have been September 30.

Maybe. I don't know if the consideration is that no tourist  should be here more than 6 months. The reality is that all people who are covered by this amnesty will have been in country for more than 6 months. I arrived on Jan 30, did my 30 day extension end of Feb, covid extension and then amnesty. So I will be at near 8 months by Sept 26. If this is the 6 month rule, it is being enforced in a strange way. However, I do know that it is clearly 6 months from the declaration of a state of emergency. Whether that is relevant who is to say. In the end the whys of everything are pure speculation since none of this has been explained by the people in charge.

4 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Not real at all. Perhaps a few people voicing their opinion.

That's what I thought. Thanks Joe. Have a good day : )