TroubleandGrumpy

If anyone think that the TRD requires, demands and enforces that all single Thailand tax residents who earn 60K Baht per year (or more), complete and lodge a tax return, then IMO they are very much mistaken. It is obvious they do not - despite what some well meaning Expats say. There would not be many Expats who do not remit into Thailand over 60K Baht each year, and I am very worried that many Expats are going to get a TIN from TRD and then lodge a tax return (and be locked into doing that yearly for life here), because they think that is required by the TRD and the Law - based on what people on this forum/thread have said and think. Or what some tax consultants have said, because they want your business every year. IMO Expats only have to lodge a tax return, if they are required to pay income taxes - after doing their self-determination (or paying someone to do it), and calculating how much tax they should pay. Unlike in the West, where you lodge a tax return and the Tax Office determines what taxes you pay (or get refunded), in Thailand you calculate it yourself and pay it yourself when lodging the return. Check it out. IMO if you have enough deductions, allowances and tax benefits, to not be required to pay income taxes, then you do not need to lodge a tax return. IMO that also applies if your home country DTA precludes you paying taxes in Thailand. For some reason, some people think you have to prove that - I do not. Many reason for my opinion on that - main one being that 40+ million Thais would be getting chased by the TRD for their tax returns. Perhaps many Expats do not realise that only about 10 million Thais lodge personal income tax returns - and yet they all earn well over 60K Baht per year. However, having said that, if an Expat remits income money into Thailand and should pay income taxes, then I strongly advise them to lodge a tax return and do that (go see a specialist). The penalties in Thailand for deliberate tax avoidance can be extreme (compared to the west), and that includes having Passport held until all fines and penalties are paid - including 1.5% per month penalty on any backdated taxes deemed due - and of course eventual deportation. IMO the TRD is best avoided by all Expats unless absolutely necessary - there are so many provisions and powers that they have which most Expats will have no clue about. Example - Somchai in the local TRD can 'calculate' what income taxes are due, based upon an Expat's lifestyle (house, car, bank account) - many things like that are totally arbitrary with TRD - avoid at all costs is my advice. I have my tax strategy worked out and I do not have to pay any income taxes in Thailand, even though I will have remitted money into the country. The vast majority of my remittances is not income, and most of the rest is 'covered' due to deductions, allowances and tax benefits, and a small amount comes under the DTA provisions. If/when TRD ever asks me in the future to justify my self-assessment decisions, I will have full records and calculations available. Some Expats are deciding to leave before that happens - and I cannot criticise them - being married to a Thai gives me big additional benefits, deductions and tax benefits. If I was single I would certainly have everything in place for a quick exit stage left in Jan-March 2025 - probably then will be the time when it will become clear what the TRD is going to do with Expats. Over and Out.

Agree with that - there are far too many unknowns to state with absolute certainty anything definitive. But to claim that the OAP is definitely going to be taxed in Thailand and/or that all OAP recipients must lodge a tax return, is total BS. One swallow does not a summer make - nor does one Clause in a DTA mean tax is payable.

You mean - how will it work in UK if they adopt the full Australian system? Boats are interceptred and passengers arrested and taken to off-shore processing. Their 'rights' under UN convention are on hold pending assesment of their claims - they also have reduced rights of appeal etc. Takes many years to be processed and even if determined to be a refuge they can be sent to another 'safe' country. Reduces the benefit for illegal immigrants to pay people smugglars - and reduces deaths lost at sea when boats collapse.

Off shore processing worked in Australia - reduced the number of illegal immigrants a lot. Current lefwing mobin Govt are looking to pull the rules back, but they realise it would be political suicide in Australia to allow unfetted illegal immigration. The right wing PM Hoaward won few elections in the past, mainly based on this subject - 'stopping the boats'.

That says a lot and we Expats know what that means. After 3 visits by the PM himself, a basic thing has been implented correctly (so far). Will this apply to any/all other systems introduced in Thailand - NO - because the PM did not sack the management responsibile for the screw up. Only then will people in management in this country realise they are accountable for things screwing up - and only then will they try harder (at all) to make sure they dont screw up. The PM has no choice because that is the culture - but until things change in that regards evcerything will remain the same. Has the management of the yellow line been acked for all the problems - NO.

Will they look into how this happenned and what needs to change so it never happens agaib - nuh. They will performa token invstigation and maybe fine a few people - but 'the system' that allows this happen will not change.

Seriously?? I wonder why I bother talking to the 'less informed' on this forum. You have to have an FCD Account - read and get informed mate. Foreign Currency Deposit Account (bangkokbank.com)

That is funny - sanctimonious and hilarious - thanks for the early morning laugh. Many years ago a bloke said the biggest problem in the West was that we were over-educting our idiots. Me thinks you fit into that group mate.

Good point - but. If you drive a lot on the many excellent highways in Thailand all across the country like I do, then you will understand. They will sit in that right hand lane (even if it is the 3rd lane) and refuse to move for any reason. Even though the rules are clear - keep left unless overtaking - they refuse to move over - and there is a lot of them - people get angry and annoyed ands do stupid things. When I was a much younger man I would too - not anymore.

Yes mate - I am one of the many who was wrong about the Junta - they never went this far and did things like this current mob are doing.

I do sympathise with them a bit - but they always go way too far. Perhaps he has had some very bad personal experiences, or perhaps he has become far too invested in this gay rights BS for other reasons. Either way we never know - but we dont have to listen to them on a forum. Their self-cventred mentality and lack of logic and rational thought is clearly evidenced by those climate change nutters that deface a work of art, or block people getting to work and ambulances. They are a problem and in this society (the west) we have suffered them far too long.

There is many more than two - several of them DM me. Take a look at the first lot of pages before Mike started to write the Guide - there were members who were very active who are no longer very active. I cannot say who and why because that is in breach of their trust and asgainst the rules of this forum.

'Disruptions' - this is a public forum for people to read and debate things. If/When I see something that is IMO wrong or vague, I will call it out and give my opinion (and defend that opinion). Just to show that I only respond to words and statements that IMO are wrong, and there are not a lot of them in the total context, this statement below by Mike (just like most of the guide) drew no response from me - because IMO everything stated in it is correct. Mike takes any negative criticism of words used in his Guide very personally - that is not IMO the way to discuss things that are always contentious - taxation like religion and politics, is one of them. Perhaps I should tone it down a little though - so I will going forward if that makes things easier to swallow.

Thanks for the support - appreciated. I just cannot understand how anyone claiming to be an expert can read PWC's statement that they quoted "All persons liable to tax are required to file a tax return" and not realise that statement is patently incorrect in Thailand.

Sounds to me that my comment hit home and is true - 70/80% of Thais do not have a TIN and do not lodge a tax return to prove they dont have to pay income taxes. You seem to want all Expats who are tax residents to get a TIN and lodge a tax return. Dont apologise - I dont care you have blocked me (or removed my emoji response) my 'target' has always been to provide my opinions to everyone reading - not to 'behave' and not disagree with someone who makes incorrect statements, refuses to listen to alternative views, and demands everyone agree with them or go away. My personal situation means I do not have to pay income taxes in Thailand - I am not arguing against some things you and others say for myself - just like I am not arguing with the guy that states that Expats receiving the Australian Age Pension in Australia have to pay income taxes for myself.

Thanks - I am about to get 3 units for a new house.

Wishing such things on me and my family and frienbds - what an atrocious person you are - clearly you are an example of why the majority of people (gays included) dislike and distrust virtue singalling nutter activists. Go away - blocked.

True - cannot argue with that sentiment. But I can assure you China needs our exports a lot more then we need their imports. Even with all the extremely negative and provocative statements made by the previous Federal Govt, China merely slapped us a little bit. Remember, India is closer and things there are extremely cheap - not as cheap as Chine but way cheaper than making it at home - we have alternatives, China really does not have an easy alternative to most of what we export to them - Iron Ore, Petroleum and Minerals.

I like the comment one bloke made a while ago that if he stays 179 days in Thailand and less than the specified days in another 1-2 countries, then he is not a tax resident of any country and he is not required to pay taxes in any country. Likewise if he stays 180+ days in Thailand and 180+ days in Australia then he is a tax resident of both countries - who wins then? The fact is that it is not about one Clause or a few words here and there - it is about the total situation of each person and his/her situation with regards to every Clause and word. Example - another one just to be deliberatly proocative to you know who. Clause 18 states "........... shall be taxable ......" That word taxable does not mean every person receiving a Pension has to pay income taxes - it means 'taxable' it does not mean must pay income taxes. Another - if the Pension is only 'taxable' in one State and not 'taxable' in the other State, that could mean a tax resident in Thailand cannot be taxed in Australia, if that domile requirement starts and they try to tax the Pension in Australia of those not living full-time in Australia. There are lots of potential interetations just of the words meaning, and then there are lots more interpretations possible for each persons situation. Egoboy has also ignored my point about another meaning of the word 'resident' in addition to your points. Anyone who receives the Austratlian pension, both in Australia or overseas, is a resident. If an OAP receiver is living overseas they are a resident who has had 'portability' approved - unlike other countries where being 'resident' is not a requirement to be approved to receive the pension. Technicality yes - but that is how laws, rules ansd regulations work - I have been involved in their creation, amendment and interpretation - Egoboy clearly has not or he would know laws, rules and regulations are constantly being changed and updated because of ever changing circumstances and changing interpetation.

That is NOT in the TRD Revenue Code or Guide - that is a claim made by a company that is paid to complete and file tax returns. Your claim is correct, if and only if, the TRD has officially stated that anyone who is a tax resident must file a tax return. IMO a person that has assesed themselves to not be 'required' to pay any income tax, is not required to lodge a tax return in Thailand (same as in Australia). If an Expat is a tax resident thjey are 'liable' to pay income taxes, whjich means they are required to go through the self-assesmnet process (or hire a tax agent/accountant to do that). But IMO if that Expat is assessed to be not 'required' to pay income taxes, then they do not have to lodge a tax return. The operative words being 'liable', 'required to after assesment' and 'not have to' - you can if you want - up to you. But an Expat will need to apply for and get a TIN from TRD to be able to lodge a tax return - 70/80% of Thais do not have a TIN and do not lodge a tax return to prove they dont have to pay income taxes. You seem to want all Expats who are tax residents to get a TIN and lodge a tax return.

Yes indeed mate - those charities are all about making money for those working in them. I remember decades ago a review was done of several big charities In Aust and they were taking on average almost 70% of their funds to pay their staff. I remember one CEO was being paid almost $1 million a year and when questioned she justified based on the number of staff being managed and the annual turnover.

Behave yourselves everyone - this attack on Farangs by Thais with a grudge and a phone camera is not gonna stop anytime soon.

What is really really sad is that Enoch Powell told everyone what was going to happen with unfetted immigration of people not 'suitable' or 'capable' of living in a modern democracy where there is a differentiation between the State and the Church - it just took a lot longer than he thought it would to become a serious problem.

Then stop stating it as a fact Mike - there is nothing I found in the Revenue Code or guidlines that states you must file a tax return even if you have no tax payable. In fact my read is that you only file a tax return when you have income taxes to pay.

I will respond to you for 2 reasons. 1. Because I have debunked you several times, but you deserve more 'kicking' - and you have at last givcen some reational behind your opinion. 2. Because some Aussies getting the OAP will read your comments and think they must pay income taxes on their Pension. Here is just one of the posts I provided in response to your rubbish before - go look up the rest of my posts where you have been debunked as an alarmist and fear mongerer. The Ministerial Correspondence Team for the ATO do not provide rulings or advice - they have absolutely no authority to do so and I know because I worked in a Ministerial Correspondence Team (Telco related). There is NIL official ruling from ATO that the OAP is taxable in Thailand for a tax resident - that is an interpretation of one Clause by some 'technical officer' and IMO it could easily just be a fake statement - it certainly does not look like any Ministyerial SAadvice letter I have evber seen before. And as far as I could find there has been NIL official determination by the TRD that the Australian OAP is taxable income in Thailand under the DTA. If you can find either of those - not opinions from forums or comunity groups - then and only then will I re-consider. But eher is somewthing for you to thiunk about - if TRD was to give an opinion, I gurantee even if it was they consider it taxcable income, they will caveat that it all depends on individual cirstances - many of whihc are covered under other Clauses in the DTA and in the TRD Guidelines and in the Taxation Act itself. As I said before, it is not a matter of one Clause and that is it. There are many other factors that are involved in a decision regarding taxable income and taxability of a person - as I have detailed many times before. What happens when someone is a tax resident of Thailand and is still a tax resident of Australia? What happens if they are taxable residents of two States? What happens if they are domicile in another State. To use the informal views of someone not authorised in Australia to decide how the TRD sees things, is total khrapp and illogical - you are clearly unaware of how the Law and the management of the collection of taxes is conducted in Thailand. If/when Thailand TRD makes a determination about taxing the Pensions of any Expats, then and only then will we know where they are coming from - but even then, that is challengeable in Tribunal and Court. The Thaialnd tax system is self-assesment - I have elaborated on this many times - and if you assess that you do not have to pay any income taxes and those reasons are valid, then that is it. The TRD can later question that assesment - but as long as you have the documentation and valid reasons why you made that assesment, then IMO you are fine. Stop being a fear monger and I sure hope people do not listen to you. Oooo effin rooo to yourself mate.