TroubleandGrumpy

Wow - mentally fully converted to a Thai I see - well good luck with all that mate - I do wish you all the best. Have you heard about Cognitive Dissonance?

Yes - but dont give him any credit yuet - until after we see how it actually works. This could be great and it could be yet another clusterf*** Best to wait and see - proof is in the pudding - and judging by the 'cooks' in that photo it might be a dud.

Happy to oblige. PS - so was yours

I hear you Jim - but I approached a well known Legal firm who advised me that at my age and in mysitruation it was a watse of time. Just getting permanent residency was extremely unlikely. Sure there is a catagory for 'supporting a wife' but I was without years of working/business and paying taxes and property ownerhsip etc etc etc.

Dont argue with it mate - wasting your time. PS - That article was referring to 'employed' Expats living full time in Thailand. Not retired, not married, and not 'in business'.

Yes mate - yet another 'situation' that the Thai RD had not considered when they decided to implement this ridiculous new rule - actually, I think they did not consider any situations - judging by the 'inane' announcements they have made since this decision was made in September. Mate - you will need a very good tax accountant when that money arrives from Japan. Can you put that money into another bank/instituion overseas and wait for all the sh** from the fan to be cleaned up (about a year or two)?

I have not found anything either - but I would seek professional advice first - after Thai RD has provided their 'clarifications and exemptions'. There are a LOT of Thais working overseas who send money home as a 'gift' to their Thai family - they are also asking for clarification. The list of people asking for 'clarification' on this matter is very large. Yet again, Thai 'authorities' have jumped in head first and broken their necks on the hidden rocks just below the surface - it is amazing how often that they do this - when a simple 'look and feel' would have shown some of the potential problems - it is almost like it is 'genetic' - they just dont seem to want to know about any potential problems, when they get an idea. Actually, I do know this one - I just recalled about a mate who was employed as a consultant and in one meeting the Boss sais 'lets do this'. He was about to say something when he realsied that he should not - and no one else said anything contradictatory either - it was just 'accepted'. Needless to say it was all a cluster***** and the Boss just 'walked away'.

1. google.com 2. multiple sources 3. because Thailand does not count them 4. my opinion from those sorces 5. got proof I am wrong? maybe a link??

I obviously assumed wrong that you were not aware of all the 'negatives', but maybe you are what we Aussies call 'a feral' - someone who has 'gone rogue' and joined 'the other team'. But maybe you are just totally 'aligned' and 'enlightened' with the Thai way of things, and you brag about paying income taxes as some sort of 'proof of allegiance'. Sorry to burst your bubble Dorothy, but you will never ever (aside from Thai family and some Thai friends) become 'one of them'. If you want proof, just catch a plane to somewhere else in Thailand and walk down the street - you aint a 'local' buddy and never will be. But either way - it seems to me that you are a person with internal conflicts - saying what you just did and telling someone else where to live and where not to live. Do you make the Thai family celebrate XMas or Birthdays etc., and do you dress like a Thai or a 'Farang' - are you 'all in' or are you 'part Farang part Thai'. - is that causing you some conflict I say that because only a Farang with 'internal conflicts' would tell another Farang that Thailand (as if speaking on their behalf) would be better off without them living here - without knowing anything about them. Here is my 'advice' to you my friend - go take a long look in the mirror when no one else is around and ask yourself 'who am I'. You are currently IMO someone that has jumped over to the 'Thai Side' of the fence, and it trying very hard to make that decision 'justified and correct'. You have failed to see that there is no fence, and it is not that hard to be on both sides. That 'fence' is a false construct - you do not have to jump over anything. It is a 'divide' and one that you are lucky enough to be able to step over and back, as it best suits you and those around you. Getting back to income taxes. I first came to live here over 10 years ago, and we returned here to live in retirement recently. One of the 'conditions' upon which that decision was made, was that Thailand does not tax the remittances of Expats living in Thailand. That money we planned to remit into Thailand is my Govt Pension and our savings made over a long period of time. Changing that 'condition' with no notice is both unfair and unreasonable. But demanding that I and all Expats in my situation just accept that and pay taxes like they do, is the view of a person who needs to 'see' things far more 'broadly' - everyone has their own 'story' and they are not all like you. Mate.

In Australia - it varies from country to country. The tax rate for non-residents is as below - there is no tax free threshold - so it starts at $1. Foreign resident tax rates 2023–24 Taxable income (note that any Govt Pension is included in this total - it is not taxed, but it is added to the total): 0 – $120,000 32.5c for each $1 $120,001 – $180,000 $39,000 plus 37c for each $1 over $120,000 $180,001 and over $61,200 plus 45c for each $1 over $180,000 Tax rates – foreign resident | Australian Taxation Office (ato.gov.au) The allowances are as per normal - costs and expenses etc. This impacts people when an Aussie receiving rent from Australia is living overseas and becomes a non-resident for Tax purposes. Are you a non-resident for tax purposes according to ATO? Questions | Determination of residency status – leaving Australia (ato.gov.au) (Note - if you INTEND to live overseas and return within 2 years and do not live in a property you own overseas = tax resident).

The Thai RD will from Jan 1 2024 as default under this new rule, view all money remitted into Thailand as taxable income - in the past it was the exact opposite. What each taxpayer will then have to do, based on Thai RD advices and directions, is to 'decide' if that gift money is not taxable in Thailand. The Thai RD may (hopefully) direct or advise that all gifts ex-Thailand are not taxable income if given to 'xyz' in 'abc' situations, but until then, gifts from overseas will be viewed in their 'default' mode.

A lot of things are waiting for 'clarity' - not just Expat affecting things - Thais who work overseas or have savings accounts overseas, and so many others.

And yet, so many 'media experts' over the years have said that if they lowered their taxes on wine, a lot more wine would be imported and sold in Thailand - especially those wines ideal for hot weather (NZ Sauvignon Blanc, Aust Chardonnay and Reisling, etc betc). The n et effect would be far more tax revenue, and it would not affect the local wine producers much at all - probably increase their sales (and maybe make them work harder on their quality).

Exactly what the wife and I will be doing if they hit me with income taxes on the money I get as a pension plus the savings I have accumulated through working for 40 years (and left after an Aust divorce). I do not quite have the money to have 3+ properties in different locations (wish I did though). But with the cost of living being so cheap in neighbouring countries who do not tax incoming money from Expats, we might just buy a cheap place here (in wife's name) and make sure we stay no more than 179 days a year. If/when things change if/when they realise the net effect of this move (for Expats) will be a loss of money, then we could always come back for longer. Planning is all up in the air right now though - we must wait and see how things pan out - I sure hopep they pull this back and leave our money alone. 2024 will clearly be a very pivotal year for our lives in Thailand.

Obviously I quote those items from Google searches to 'prove' what I am saying is correct and you are wrong (again). Now you are joking about burning down a house - wow - be careful what you say at an airport on a plane - how about I just burn you. Good bye.

I will assume you are ignorant of things like 90 day reporting to Police and annual applications to stay another 12 months and all the other impositions applied to Expats. And also ignorant of all the 'rights and services' that Expats do get for free, without paying 2-5 times more than Thais. And also ignorant of the double standards and dual pricing and all the other krapp we have to just accept in order to live here,m with no legal rights and no votes (and we dont get that 10K handout, nor the Govt bonus programs for encouraging travel, or anything else - ever). And again I will assume you are ignorant of the fact that the majority of Thais do not pay income taxes - nil - and that Expats pay a lot more VAT taxes than the majority of Thais But, more than all that above (and more) I will assume you are also ignorant of the fact that when Expats like me first came to this country to retire, one of the key criteria was that Thailand did not tax money that is remitted into Thailand. Philippinnes, Indonesia, Malaysia etc., still do not tax foregner's income earned in the past and remitted into Thaiand - they either do not do it at all, or they have made exemption and allowances for foreign retirees and those marrying their citizens. Thailand has changed the rules - with 3 months notice. And they have offered no benefits or additional rights to those they may be soon forcing to pay income taxes on money they saved for their retirements etc.

You are an argumentative waste of my time - who claims to be speaking for everyone else - waste of time (again).

Yes indeed it was - my bad

So all the work and focus and money being spent by Thailand to attract 20 million tourists to Thailand is 'worth' only 10 weeks of exports? Your understanding of macro and micro economics and where GDP fits into things is very lacking. Eg. The money that tourists (and Expats) bring into Thailand is 'new' money - it is not 'offset' against imports and there is no large 'costs of production' (although TAT is IMO mostly wasted money).

GDP measures the monetary value of final goods and services—that is, those that are bought by the final user—produced in a country in a given period of time (say a quarter or a year). It counts all of the output generated within the borders of a country. GDP is composed of goods and services produced for sale in the market and also includes some nonmarket production, such as defense or education services provided by the government. Gross Domestic Product: An Economy’s All (imf.org) The PM does not go and greet each car as it rolls off the Honda factory floor - like they do for tourists. 300M Expats (there are 100K Japanese Expats alone - they are the biggest number) equals 7.14 million tourists EVERY year guaranteed. By the term 'Expats' (my definition) means retired, married, working people who are living full-time in Thailand from 1st world countries. There are 3.5 to 4 million Expats living and working in Thailand full time - the vast majority are from Laos, Cambodia and Myanmar. Your 'argument' is as lost in reality, and is obviosuly wrong because it is the same 'argument' that Thai authorities believe about Expats. As Janis said many years ago "you dont know what you've got, 'til it's gone". IMO the 'paradise' that is Thailand is being turned into a parking lot.

7.14 million tourists - not worth their efforts ? Get real mate - TAT is being paid a lot of money to 'generate' millions of tourists, and here we are right in front of them. But I do agree about the whinging POMs and liberal woke Yanks - almost as bad as soi dogs at night.

1. Being a non-resident for taxes is something that the ATO determines - not yourself. Remember this - if you are 'caught' (and audited) the ATO will go back many years - and they get access to all your records (all of them). Their fines and penalties can be severe. I knew an Expat (Graham) who was doing the same as you for years - he got caught (maybe dobbed in) and he was forced to return to Aust and he is still paying off his debts to ATO. I know about him, because his story is included in the ATO Court decisions and publications - well it was in 2010. 2. Any money you remit into Thailand from rental of a property overseas is taxable income from 1 Jan 2024. There are many forms of taxable income earned overseas and tax is payable when that money is remitted into Thailand. In the past it was not taxable in Thailand if you kept it in a bank account until the following year and then remitted it into Thailand - that loophole is what the Thai RD is now closing from 1 Jan 2024. The Thai RD penalties and fines are more than in Australia - a lot more - and could easily result in deportation and blacklisting after you have paid the money owed (while residing in a Thai detention facility). PS - for thsoe unaware - if you are blacklisted by Thailand, then many other countries will not allow you to enter their country as a visitor. Thailand is 'joining' the first world and they are now sharing information that they never did before - such as the CRS system that this new rule change mandated take place in Thailand (mainly to stop illegal money being aundered and global tax evasion).

As per my last post - see above: 300,000 Expats spending an average of 1 Million Baht a year (average across all of them) equates to 300 Billion Baht. That amount when compared to the average 42K spend by each tourist, equates to 7.14 Million tourists. The GDP economy you are quoting is not the 'real economy'. The GDP includes all the macro level spending and purchasing, and includes Govt expenditures and spending on services including medical, educational and military etc.

I dont agree there Mike - it is probably actually over 1 million a year (on average). This was calculated some years ago in a media story about the 'value' of Expats to Thailand - maybe ThaiVisa.com too. The average is calculated not just on the normal annual spend on rent and extertainment etc etc., it also includes those big purchases that most Expats make now and then - cars, TVs, furniture, property, holidays, etc etc. I think like many Expats, most Thais see only the large number of Expats in places like Pattaya - when there are a lot more spread out around the country. There was a story recently in the media about a few Expats who has been ripped off in real estate deals on Phuket - they hade spent Billions of Baht. Sure there are a lot of cheap charlies living off only their pensions in places like Pattaya and only spending 50-60K per month on average, but there are a lot more Expats across the whole country spending a lot more money than that. They are in every gated community we have ever lived in or visited - and some of them bought their property. There also are a lot in the smaller towns, villages and some on farms. The problem is that the Thai Govt does not count them - each Province keeps their details and does not report them any central authority. If the Thai Govt actually counted them and calculated how much money theu spend in Thailand every year, things would change. I recall a Thai bloke who involved in the local Thai Immigration in a small Province office talking about how they counted them once - the big Boss said to stop. Thais in authority dont want to know how many Expats there really are - they are worried that we are actually important and they dont like that.

300,000 Expats spending an average of 1 Million Baht a year (average across all of them) equates to 300 Billion Baht. That amount when compared to the average 42K spend by each tourist, equates to 7.14 Million tourists. TAT would kill for another 7.14 million tourists - it aint a drop in the Ocean mate - far from it. Revenue likely to miss target by B300bn (bangkokpost.com)