Now I'm slim, what diet to aid muscle mass increase?

[simon43]

Since the start of this year, I've been following a low-fat diet with fat-burning exercise (leisurely cycling).  I've lost about 11 Kg and my % fat level is now about 11-12%.  My abs are very visible and generally all over my body there is little fat to be seen.  I'm very happy with my fat loss.

 

I also did cardio - mainly jogging, and my stamina has greatly increased. I can jog 10 Km in under 50 minutes.  That's good news for me.

 

I was also very much aware that whilst dieting, I should try to minimise my muscle loss, particularly because at my age (58), it would be hard to increase muscle mass.  So I've been doing gym work since January to maintain/increase muscle mass on my chest, arms and shoulders (my legs have always had good muscle because of my cycling). I did 4 sets of 10 chin-ups today, even though my arms are a puny 11 inches.

 

So now I am at the point where I probably need to make some changes to my diet, to assist the increase in my muscle mass, but without causing an increase in my fat levels.  My daily diet consist of muesli, raw veg, fresh fruit, oily fish, keffir milk, probiotic yogurt, walnuts, some lean chicken slices, coffee, water, green tea.

 

I will continue with my cycling, cardio and gym work, but it is the correct diet to assist muscle increase that I need advice about.

[sinbin]

1 hour ago, simon43 said:

My daily diet consist of muesli, raw veg, fresh fruit, oily fish, keffir milk, probiotic yogurt, walnuts, some lean chicken slices, coffee, water, green tea.

I asked my doctor if eating the above would make me live longer. He replied 'no, it'll just seem like it'. F.F.S Just eat a  balanced diet and carry on with the cycling.

Edited September 3, 2017 by sinbin

[simon43]

I asked my doctor if eating the above would make me live longer. He replied 'no, it'll just seem like it'. F.F.S Just eat a  balanced diet and carry on with the cycling.

 

Laughed at your comment.  But it added absolutely nothing to the relevance of my post :)

[sinbin]

35 minutes ago, simon43 said:

 

Laughed at your comment.  But it added absolutely nothing to the relevance of my post :)

At least you're laughing with a diet like that. I too lost a lot of weight through cycling and dieting but I'd never do the same again. I reckon it lowered my immune system and I came down with infection after infection. I said never again and I meant it. Exercise by all means but F*** the dieting. Eat a balanced diet.

 

Edit: I was cycling 40 km a day for god knows how long. I lost all sense of direction until it made me ill. Never again with the dieting.

Edited September 3, 2017 by sinbin

[JHolmesJr]

the new thing is high fat, medium protein, low carb (below 20gm a day).

[DavisH]

Consider increasing the weight you are lifting and do fewer reps...e.g. 3 sets of 8 reps. This should give more bulk rather than just 'toned. I'm not sure diet will have a huge effect. Maybe try some whey supplements and as you are now. As we get older it does get increasingly harder to keep muscle tone, let along add more on:)  

[simon43]

Eat a balanced diet.

 

Well, I consider that I'm eating a very healthy diet.  My experience about infections is the opposite of yours.  I've had no illnesses, no colds, nothing at all since going on this diet (using the term 'diet' here not to imply a weight-loss diet, but more to imply a healthy-eating diet).

 

@DavisH, I forgot to mention that I also have some whey powder each day.  My muscle mass has certainly increased since I started doing gym work, but I wondered whether a change in what I eat could also help, now that I've dropped the flab.

[sinbin]

5 minutes ago, simon43 said:

I've had no illnesses, no colds, nothing at all since going on this diet (using the term 'diet' here not to imply a weight-loss diet, but more to imply a healthy-eating diet).

 

I hope all stays well for you Simon.  

[robblok]

More protein, but it does not really matter without a serious workout plan.. building muscle is not easy.. especially not at your age. Don't expect miracles, just eat a bit more make sure its protein and do compound exercises. 

 

Chinups is good, squats are too... if possible deadlifts or benchpress.. shoulder / military presses. It will be a slow road. 

[thrilled]

I believe a lot depends on your genetic makeup.Your ancestors.Some people it's fairly easy to balk up.For others they can work twice as much and not get anywhere.And you don't want to forget when you lose weight since me of it could also be muscle.It's A never ending process.

[SS1]

I'm a very enthusiastic bodybuilder / weightlifter and here is my advice: Take one day and measure how much you eat. You can use a food scale and a site like myfitnesspal.com to calculate your calories and macronutrients for free. Firstly, try to eat at least 2g of protein per kg of body weight, then check the amount of fat and carbs you eat. Try to eat around 100g of high quality fats per day, making the rest of your diet from carbs. Once you are eating enough protein and fats, start to increase the amount of carbs in your diet slowly until you start to gain weight. 0.5kg per week increase in bodyweight is a good target for bulking up. 

I have seen many times skinny people with the ectomorph body type saying that they cannot gain weight even when eating lots of food. Often the fact is, that they are not really eating that much! For example I had a tall friend who already weighed 90kg but was skinny and said he just cannot gain muscle despite eating a ton of food. After I calculated his calories, it was only around 2800 calories he was eating. Just for comparison, I weigh 80kg and if I eat 2800 per day I lose weight. Once he upped his calories to 4000 he increased his weight to 105kg in a few months and his strenght exploded, with minimal fat gain. 

ps. even if you do cycling, don't forget to train your legs with weights. Heavy workouts on the legs are important as they encourage your body to produce more growth hormone in response to the stress, leading into more muscle gains in your body overall. 

Edited September 4, 2017 by SS1

[OmarZaid]

this might help https://zaidpub.com/2011/12/29/food-is-the-best-medicineeat-right-for-your-blood-type-by-dr-omar/

[simon43]

Quote

 

 Take one day and measure how much you eat. You can use a food scale and a site like myfitnesspal.com to calculate your calories and macronutrients for free. 
 

 

 

Well, of course I know how many calories I eat each day, and what the ratios of carbs:protein:fat are, because I have been following a careful and controlled diet since the start of the year.

 

Bear in mind that my body type is best described as 'wiry'. I now weigh about 62 Kg, with 11-12% body fat.

 

My typical daily calorie intake is about 1,650.  Calculations indicate that I burn 1,630 calories at rest.  But I'm exercising, not resting. My daily activity and exercise means that I actually burn about 3,000 calories, which is why (of course), I have successfully lost 11 Kg over the past 8 months.

 

My current breakdown of carbs:protein:fat is 53:35:12 %

 

All the above data is why I now have to change my diet, calorie intake and ratios, so that I start to increase my muscle mass, but hopefully without increasing my fat %.

Edited September 4, 2017 by simon43

[tonray]

On 9/3/2017 at 8:43 PM, robblok said:

More protein, but it does not really matter without a serious workout plan.. building muscle is not easy.. especially not at your age. Don't expect miracles, just eat a bit more make sure its protein and do compound exercises. 

 

Chinups is good, squats are too... if possible deadlifts or benchpress.. shoulder / military presses. It will be a slow road. 

Very True...after a certain age...building and maintaining muscle mass is difficult because we are naturally losing it as we get older. The only thing that will do it consistently is hormone therapy, HGH or testosterone or steroids and I don't recommend any of these.

 

Be happy with your leanness...if you want to add a bit of weight...just add some complex carbs and more snacks during the day...will make you look fuller and not so skinny.

[chilli42]

I would increase the amount of protein and fat intake.  I would drop the steady state cardio and replace it with high intensity interval training (Google HIIT).  Do not do cardio on the same days you are weight training.

[anfh]

You dont say how tall you are, but at 62kg, unless you are only around 4ft 10, i think you are vastly underweight. 

[mstevens]

On 9/4/2017 at 1:02 AM, sinbin said:

Exercise by all means but F*** the dieting. Eat a balanced diet.

Fresh fruit & veges, fish, lean chicken, nuts, grains, yogurt.....  Actually, I think he is eating a balanced diet!

[sledpull]

Tabata Protocol strength training workouts! Tabata cardio! Kettlebell workouts combine strength and cardio! Congratulations on the chinups! Weighted Pullups now that you have advanced! 

[simon43]

You dont say how tall you are, but at 62kg, unless you are only around 4ft 10, i think you are vastly underweight. 

 

Well, as a comparison, Juan Carlos Burgos is the current Junior Lightweight (130 pounds) boxing champion.  He is 1.75 metres tall and doesn't look anorexic etc.

 

Please explain to me why he isn't 4 feet ten inches in height

 

 

[robblok]

2 hours ago, simon43 said:

 

 

 

Well, as a comparison, Juan Carlos Burgos is the current Junior Lightweight (130 pounds) boxing champion.  He is 1.75 metres tall and doesn't look anorexic etc.

 

Please explain to me why he isn't 4 feet ten inches in height

 

 

Some people don't want to accept that they themselves are maybe a bit overweight and make fun of people who are of healthy lean weight. I think your reply was perfect.

[tonray]

One thing to add is that you must give your muscles adequate recovery time after exercising. If you are working the same muscle groups hard everyday, you will be very lean but not add bulk. I suspect that is what's happening here. 

[simon43]

One thing to add is that you must give your muscles adequate recovery time after exercising

 

Yes I agree.  I try to follow a routine of chest and arm exercises one day, then abs exercises and jogging the next day, to allow each muscle set to rest one day.

 

I also understand the importance of changing a routine.  So the interval training is a very good idea as well.

[sawadee1947]

On 9/3/2017 at 8:02 PM, JHolmesJr said:

the new thing is high fat, medium protein, low carb (below 20gm a day).

what a b...shit. You enlarge your fat cells and diminish muscles.

Suppose you are over 60 you need a lot of protein in combination with sports to increase your muscles. Every medical scientist will tell you

[tropo]

 

On 9/4/2017 at 7:37 PM, thrilled said:

I believe a lot depends on your genetic makeup.Your ancestors.Some people it's fairly easy to balk up.For others they can work twice as much and not get anywhere.And you don't want to forget when you lose weight since me of it could also be muscle.It's A never ending process.

It's mainly dependent on one's testosterone production. At 58, it's normally too low to easily build muscle, but with TRT it becomes possible, even at that age. If testosterone levels are low, you're not going to do it. The OP claims he's built muscle, which may well be the case, but losing fat will always make one look more muscular. If he did muscle, it's the beginner's honeymoon phase which will soon cease.

[tropo]

On 9/4/2017 at 7:53 PM, SS1 said:

I'm a very enthusiastic bodybuilder / weightlifter and here is my advice: Take one day and measure how much you eat. You can use a food scale and a site like myfitnesspal.com to calculate your calories and macronutrients for free. Firstly, try to eat at least 2g of protein per kg of body weight, then check the amount of fat and carbs you eat. Try to eat around 100g of high quality fats per day, making the rest of your diet from carbs. Once you are eating enough protein and fats, start to increase the amount of carbs in your diet slowly until you start to gain weight. 0.5kg per week increase in bodyweight is a good target for bulking up. 

I have seen many times skinny people with the ectomorph body type saying that they cannot gain weight even when eating lots of food. Often the fact is, that they are not really eating that much! For example I had a tall friend who already weighed 90kg but was skinny and said he just cannot gain muscle despite eating a ton of food. After I calculated his calories, it was only around 2800 calories he was eating. Just for comparison, I weigh 80kg and if I eat 2800 per day I lose weight. Once he upped his calories to 4000 he increased his weight to 105kg in a few months and his strenght exploded, with minimal fat gain. 

ps. even if you do cycling, don't forget to train your legs with weights. Heavy workouts on the legs are important as they encourage your body to produce more growth hormone in response to the stress, leading into more muscle gains in your body overall. 

You don't mention age anywhere in your post. Age is a huge factor in this...

 

We're talking about a 58-year-old man here, not a kid. "Bulking up" is just fattening up, which the OP does not want to do. He's been working his butt off to lean out and lose flab. If he eats more calories than he needs, even if it's protein, sure, he'll bulk up again, but that's not what he wants to do. I don't know how old you are, but when you're older you don't need anywhere near the calories of a young man to stay muscular AND lean. I can maintain a muscular 100kg (age 58) with a surprisingly low calorie consumption, unlike when I was in my 20's when I had to keep eating all the time.

[tropo]

On 9/3/2017 at 8:13 PM, DavisH said:

Consider increasing the weight you are lifting and do fewer reps...e.g. 3 sets of 8 reps. This should give more bulk rather than just 'toned. I'm not sure diet will have a huge effect. Maybe try some whey supplements and as you are now. As we get older it does get increasingly harder to keep muscle tone, let along add more on:)  

You can build plenty of muscle with high reps in the 15 - 20 rep range, and even 20 - 30. The trick is to work to failure and be sure to keep form strict so you're working the target muscles. I seldom do less than 15 reps these days. It's a great way to train because you can keep the loads lighter and therefore less risk of injury. It doesn't mean you're throwing around cufflinks though. It's much harder than 3 sets of 8 reps and once you get used to 15 - 20 reps, you can use some decent loads.

The best way for the OP to hold on to and build muscle is to cut back on long slow cardio and focus more on muscle building exercises. Substitute long slow cardio for HIIT cardio. That can chew through fat just as fast and it works the heart even more... but 3 times a week max.

Regarding what diet to help build muscle - you only need more protein if you're protein deficient. If you're not, it's a waste of money. I enjoy whey protein smoothies straight after intense workouts. I blend a banana, frozen fruit (blueberries & strawberries mainly), milk and natural (no flavour) WPC, a raw egg and a pinch of Himalayan Pink Salt together for delicious smoothy after my workouts and sip it while I relax and enjoy the after-workout glow. This is a replacement meal, not an additional one. I like the convenience of a liquid meal after hard workouts, but solid food will do just as well.

[tropo]

19 hours ago, chilli42 said:

I would increase the amount of protein and fat intake.  I would drop the steady state cardio and replace it with high intensity interval training (Google HIIT).  Do not do cardio on the same days you are weight training.

Hallelujah! You hit the nail on the head! 

[tropo]

11 hours ago, robblok said:

14 hours ago, simon43 said:

Well, as a comparison, Juan Carlos Burgos is the current Junior Lightweight (130 pounds) boxing champion.  He is 1.75 metres tall and doesn't look anorexic etc.

 

Please explain to me why he isn't 4 feet ten inches in height

 

 

1

Some people don't want to accept that they themselves are maybe a bit overweight and make fun of people who are of healthy lean weight. I think your reply was perfect.

To be fair, boxers often walk around and train at 10 - 15 lbs heavier than their weigh-in weight. I haven't followed Carlos Burgos (I think he finished boxing about 3 years ago), but some boxers struggle to make weight for their fights.

[simon43]

The OP claims he's built muscle, which may well be the case, but losing fat will always make one look more muscular.

 

Certainly, my lack of fat makes my puny muscles stand out more :)

 

I know that I have gained muscle mass, especially on my arms because:

- My measured upper arm size was previously 10 inches (like a pipe-cleaner), and now it is 11 inches

- I previously could do exactly zero pull-ups or chin-ups, and now I can do 4 sets of 10 reps.

 

But this may well be a honeymoon period, as you say.  I'm not looking for huge muscles, and at my age I suppose I should be happy with any muscle gain at all!

[tropo]

10 minutes ago, simon43 said:

 

 

 

Certainly, my lack of fat makes my puny muscles stand out more :)

 

I know that I have gained muscle mass, especially on my arms because:

- My measured upper arm size was previously 10 inches (like a pipe-cleaner), and now it is 11 inches

- I previously could do exactly zero pull-ups or chin-ups, and now I can do 4 sets of 10 reps.

 

But this may well be a honeymoon period, as you say.  I'm not looking for huge muscles, and at my age I suppose I should be happy with any muscle gain at all!

If you really want to, you can, but it will require a totally different training regime and supplementation (not just vitamins ). The fact that you've increased your strength by so much in a short period of time indicates to me that you have some potential.