Kamala Harris: Balancing Loyalty and Change in Her Bid for the Presidency

[snoop1130]

North Korea warns that "more gift packages" on way to U.S.

 

North Korea's ambassador to the United Nations Han Tae Song speaks during an interview with Reuters in Geneva, Switzerland, June 20, 2017. REUTERS/Pierre Albouy/Files

 

GENEVA (Reuters) - North Korea said on Tuesday it had addressed a recent "gift package" to the United States and that more would follow.

 

Han Tae Song, the ambassador of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK) to the U.N. in Geneva, was addressing the U.N.-sponsored Conference on Disarmament two days after his country detonated its sixth and largest nuclear test.

 

"The recent self-defence measures by my country, DPRK, are a gift package addressed to none other than the U.S.," Han told the Geneva forum.

 

"The U.S. will receive more gift packages from my country as long as its relies on reckless provocations and futile attempts to put pressure on the DPRK," he said.

 

(Reporting by Stephanie Nebehay, editing by Tom Miles)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-9-5

[Golgota]

Can't wait for Xmas

[GinBoy2]

It would be lovely if there was a neat solution to the DPRK issue, but I think that time has passed.

They are a nuclear power, no point in denying that, so the idea that you can wind back their nuke program is specious.

They could within minutes launch a conventional artillery attack which would decimate Seoul, and again the idea that the US along within South Korean forces could eliminate that threat is fanciful.

So to the 'bomb the sh#t outta them' crowd, you are delusional at best, dangerous at worst.

As hard as it is China is the only solution, they hold all the financial levers, which is probably the only way out which doesn't result in tens of thousands of Koreans dying, and yes it's South Koreans, not Americans in Guam or the mainland.

Now how you get China to put real pressure is the question. 

They have no real love of Kim, but equally they don't want the DPRK to implode which would be hugely destabilizing and a huge refugee problem. Also they don't want to see a major US ally South Korea extend up to their border.

 

So no answers, just stating the uncomfortable facts of where we are

Edited September 5, 2017 by GinBoy2

[Jingthing]

They have missiles. They have nukes. It's really doubtful they've blended them yet. I don't see how war is avoided now. 

[YetAnother]

well i would go on a long vacation out of seoul

[simon43]

well i would go on a long vacation out of seoul

 

I agree, but I haven't heard any news about that - perhaps such news will be suppressed to avoid panic.

[baboon]

42 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

It would be lovely if there was a neat solution to the DPRK issue, but I think that time has passed.

They are a nuclear power, no point in denying that, so the idea that you can wind back their nuke program is specious.

They could within minutes launch a conventional artillery attack which would decimate Seoul, and again the idea that the US along within South Korean forces could eliminate that threat is fanciful.

So to the 'bomb the sh#t outta them' crowd, you are delusional at best, dangerous at worst.

As hard as it is China is the only solution, they hold all the financial levers, which is probably the only way out which doesn't result in tens of thousands of Koreans dying, and yes it's South Koreans, not Americans in Guam or the mainland.

Now how you get China to put real pressure is the question. 

They have no real love of Kim, but equally they don't want the DPRK to implode which would be hugely destabilizing and a huge refugee problem. Also they don't want to see a major US ally South Korea extend up to their border.

 

So no answers, just stating the uncomfortable facts of where we are

I think the above is a very well written and pragmatic assessment of where we find ourselves today. It is just a pity it is likely to fall on deaf ears.

[baboon]

41 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

They have missiles. They have nukes. It's really doubtful they've blended them yet. I don't see how war is avoided now. 

Just leave them be is the best way to avoid conflict.

[coulson]

And these gift packages aren't *wreckless provocation*????

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, baboon said:

Just leave them be is the best way to avoid conflict.

Maybe, I am not pro war, but do you really want such an idiot with nuclear power. Who knows who he would sell his stuff too. its not like they have much financial means. I am sure there are some Muslim fanatics who would love to buy some North Korean bombs. 

 

If it was just a matter of waiting it out and no risk of the bombs being sold or the dictator doing something crazy it would be ok.

 

Its a dangerous situation, i still don't think war is justified.. but just leaving them be with the risk of bombs being sold is not a nice idea too. 

[baboon]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

Maybe, I am not pro war, but do you really want such an idiot with nuclear power. Who knows who he would sell his stuff too. its not like they have much financial means. I am sure there are some Muslim fanatics who would love to buy some North Korean bombs. 

 

If it was just a matter of waiting it out and no risk of the bombs being sold or the dictator doing something crazy it would be ok.

 

Its a dangerous situation, i still don't think war is justified.. but just leaving them be with the risk of bombs being sold is not a nice idea too. 

Undesirable it certainly is, but unfortunately we are where we are.

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, baboon said:

Undesirable it certainly is, but unfortunately we are where we are.

True.. i agree that a war is not really a solution. But there has to be some action to make sure that his nukes aren't sold to terrorists. The economy is not that good and I am sure he would not mind the extra money. 

 

 

 

[baboon]

6 minutes ago, robblok said:

True.. i agree that a war is not really a solution. But there has to be some action to make sure that his nukes aren't sold to terrorists. The economy is not that good and I am sure he would not mind the extra money. 

 

 

 

Wouldn't it strike you that terrorists would have an equal chance of obtaining material from the Pakistanis or a rogue former Soviet general? 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

It would seem like something has to be done.

 

We've had years of attempted diplomacy with NK, we've had de-nuclearization deals that were entered into and then broken, and all that's happened is this rogue nation has steadily progressed closer and closer to being able to launch nuclear attacks on its neighboring countries and the U.S.

 

I'm not sure what the solution or best tactical approach is, but just leaving NK alone to continue further down the nuclear road seems a recipe for disaster.

 

The crazy part is, the Korean war ended give or take 60 years ago, and yet all we ever hear is they need their nukes because the U.S. is intent on attacking and invading them. Well, the U.S. has had 60 plus years of opportunity since the end of the Korean War to attack/invade North Korea, and never has/never did.

 

The only reason the U.S. is doing anything there other than ensuring the defense of South Korea is because NK has become a rogue nation led by an unstable dictator who seems willing to use nuclear weapons.

 

 

Edited September 5, 2017 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Jingthing]

28 minutes ago, baboon said:

Just leave them be is the best way to avoid conflict.

It's not acceptable for that regime to have functioning nuclear missiles that can hit Japan, Guam, mainland USA, etc. It seems to me the set up now is there is only a small amount of time that the regime won't have such functioning weapons. If that doesn't seem like a problem to you, I can't relate. May as well say bury your head in the sand. 

Edited September 5, 2017 by Jingthing

[baboon]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

It's not acceptable for that regime to have functioning nuclear missiles that can hit Japan, Guam, mainland USA, etc. 

I know what you are saying, JT, but the fact remains that they do, and any military attack on them would quite probably lead to horrifying consequences with ramifications worldwide.

I mean we could get lucky and 'just' have a couple of million people in Seoul killed, but I am afraid that the DPRK have succeeded in their objective: 'attack us at your grave peril'.

[GinBoy2]

Part of the problem with the narrative is the notion that the regime is crazy.

If it were a normal country, starving your people while you pile he country's resources into nuclear weapons would be crazy.

But if the raison d'etre is the maintenance of a family dynasty it makes perfect sense.

Pretty sure what factors into Kim's thinking as part of his preservation strategy is he's seen what happens to other dictators when they gave up their weapons.

That rapprochement that Gaddafi experienced with the West after he abandoned his weapons programs didn't work out so well.

Kim knows at this point his only leverage is his nuclear program, thats his survival program

Edited September 5, 2017 by GinBoy2

[Jingthing]

Well the way I see it now is that I accept Kim isn't totally insane, and he's using a rational tactic with the main objective to preserve his power in his regime. trump, I think, is actually nuttier than Kim, probably much more, but he's surrounded by much more rational actors, the Secretary of State and some generals.This isn't a good mix. Both sides are on a hair trigger now. The chances of an ACCIDENTAL escalation are getting way too high for comfort. I see there are no military options that don't  result in massive deaths, it's more like how massive. But I don't like the odds anymore on this not happening. 

[baboon]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Well the way I see it now is that I accept Kim isn't totally insane, and he's using a rational tactic with the main objective to preserve his power in his regime. trump, I think, is actually nuttier than Kim, probably much more, but he's surrounded by much more rational actors, the Secretary of State and some generals.This isn't a good mix. Both sides are on a hair trigger now. The chances of an ACCIDENTAL escalation are getting way too high for comfort. I see there are no military options that don't  result in massive deaths, it's more like how massive. But I don't like the odds anymore on this not happening. 

This is just a personal opinion, but I do not think they are really on a hair trigger. I think a good deal of this 'crisis' is being stoked up by the media.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, baboon said:

This is just a personal opinion, but I do not think they are really on a hair trigger. I think a good deal of this 'crisis' is being stoked up by the media.

Could be. But there are so many worrying things going on. Such as trump bothering South Korea with trade issues now (what kind of IDIOCY is that?), and critical tweeting towards the south about attempts at appeasement. That's got to be seen as weakness of the alliance in the North, and it kind of is. 

 

Anyway, I am believing that this is the most dangerous time we've seen since the last active war there. 

Edited September 5, 2017 by Jingthing

[baboon]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Could be. But there are so many worrying things going on. Such as trump bothering South Korea with trade issues now (what kind of IDIOCY is that?), and critical tweeting towards the south about attempts at appeasement. That's got to be seen as weakness of the alliance in the North, and it kind of is. 

Still, I honestly wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Remember the sinking of the Cheonan in 2010 and how that was going to be it? Well here we still are. Don't let it it spoil your evening. 

[midas]

43 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

It would seem like something has to be done.

 

We've had years of attempted diplomacy with NK, we've had de-nuclearization deals that were entered into and then broken, and all that's happened is this rogue nation has steadily progressed closer and closer to being able to launch nuclear attacks on its neighboring countries and the U.S.

 

I'm not sure what the solution or best tactical approach is, but just leaving NK alone to continue further down the nuclear road seems a recipe for disaster.

 

The crazy part is, the Korean war ended give or take 60 years ago, and yet all we ever hear is they need their nukes because the U.S. is intent on attacking and invading them. Well, the U.S. has had 60 plus years of opportunity since the end of the Korean War to attack/invade North Korea, and never has/never did.

 

The only reason the U.S. is doing anything there other than ensuring the defense of South Korea is because NK has become a rogue nation led by an unstable dictator who seems willing to use nuclear weapons.

 

 

" It would seem like something has to be done."

 

But based on what you are saying what if it sets off the most unbelievable worldwide chain reaction?

North Korea is a close ally of Iran (they both share nuclear technology secrets) and only last week for the first time in 12 years Iran  has joined forces with Hezbollah and Hamas they say with the sole purpose of eliminating a small nuclear armed country in the Middle East. Will those nuclear weapons be used in defence?

Then you have India and Pakistan both nuclear powers who just two weeks ago were involved in a direct conflict on their border.

 

Edited September 5, 2017 by midas

[anon4546543]

35 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It's not acceptable for that regime to have functioning nuclear missiles that can hit Japan, Guam, mainland USA, etc. It seems to me the set up now is there is only a small amount of time that the regime won't have such functioning weapons. If that doesn't seem like a problem to you, I can't relate. May as well say bury your head in the sand. 

After the last set of sanctions on Russia, Mr Putin pointed out the obvious. We are a nuclear power or such words. It seems you

cannot constitute that as a threat. Israel has constantly threatened to use nukes against its surrounding countries whilst at the

same time refusing to acknowledge they have nukes. Add USA, China, Britain, France, India, Pakistan and possibly Iran to the mix.

There may be more. At times they have all had unstable governments and some now continue that trend.

Nth Korea is just a new addition to the "club". Unlike the US, no one has fired one in anger yet. That may well change soon.

But why just pick on Nth Korea. Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD) is in the province of lunatics. 

Nth Korea has always stated that its defense capabilities are a reaction to US provocation

They do seem to have a slightly paranoid good point to make.  

[robblok]

1 hour ago, baboon said:

Wouldn't it strike you that terrorists would have an equal chance of obtaining material from the Pakistanis or a rogue former Soviet general? 

Everything is possible prefer them to have as little options as possible. 

[Naam]

41 minutes ago, baboon said:

This is just a personal opinion, but I do not think they are really on a hair trigger. I think a good deal of this 'crisis' is being stoked up by the media.

bingo!

[baboon]

35 minutes ago, spiderorchid said:

After the last set of sanctions on Russia, Mr Putin pointed out the obvious. We are a nuclear power or such words. It seems you

cannot constitute that as a threat. Israel has constantly threatened to use nukes against its surrounding countries whilst at the

same time refusing to acknowledge they have nukes. Add USA, China, Britain, France, India, Pakistan and possibly Iran to the mix.

There may be more. At times they have all had unstable governments and some now continue that trend.

Nth Korea is just a new addition to the "club". Unlike the US, no one has fired one in anger yet. That may well change soon.

But why just pick on Nth Korea. Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD) is in the province of lunatics. 

Nth Korea has always stated that its defense capabilities are a reaction to US provocation

They do seem to have a slightly paranoid good point to make.  

You are not being paranoid when they really are out to get you...

[anon4546543]

4 minutes ago, baboon said:

You are not being paranoid when they really are out to get you...

An attack by US on Nth Korea? I think you are being a little unfair on the US and all other protagonists of

what we all hoped would be a long forgotten war. Technically, many countries are still on hostile terms

with Nth Korea. US has had a long time to "get" Nth Korea if they had truly wanted too. Instead they promised to

defend Sth Korea, whilst Nth Korea was still offering threats. No one country in the vicinity including China and

Russia has clean hands on this issue. While all parties threaten to retaliate on a preemptive strike , it should

be hoped that tiny small hands can be restricted from getting trigger itchy.

[Jingthing]

Still, I honestly wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Remember the sinking of the Cheonan in 2010 and how that was going to be it? Well here we still are. Don't let it it spoil your evening. 

Well not long ago the chances of trump being president were surely under one percent. So even if the chance of war breaking out there is one percent that's a higher chance than it should be.

 

 

[mercman24]

just put a billion quid on his head, end of.

[docshock13]

1 hour ago, baboon said:

This is just a personal opinion, but I do not think they are really on a hair trigger. I think a good deal of this 'crisis' is being stoked up by the media.

Spot on. I have 2 good friends in Seoul at the moment. The focus of our conversations has been day to day stuff (e.g. family life, job and fantasy football stuff). 

When someone brought up the "situation" one replied: "It is media hype. If it were serious, embassies would be telling their citizens to bolt. So if it were a true threat, peeps would be evacuated Asap."