What visa options are available?

[tryasimight]

12 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

No-one on this thread, as far as I can see, has blamed Thai immigration. My question was what options he has within the rules. He has since told me he is okay for now to rely on a series of tourist visas and extensions.

He might be Ok with it.....immigration may not be so happy in the longer term.

Does the OA visa apply for him based on his state pension or is that only for UK people?

 

Sorry to say this, and good luck to the gentleman, but I can't see this ending well at all.

Elite visa out of the question, recently retired but still has debts that will take at least 2 years to pay off, can't afford the 800,000 for a retirement extension (20,000 mentioned  for a tourist visa this may also be a problem?) and supporting a woman and two kids.....?????

[tryasimight]

15 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Go to an agency and all problems will be solved within one day.  But it will probably cost 20,000 b +.

I think worth it but up to you....

(Immigration)thanks you for raising that....we can expect another crack down on dodgy agents/practices in the near future.

[stevenl]

14 hours ago, mikecha said:

Question why is his Dutch pension less if he marries a thai woman

Again, nothing to do with marrying but with living together with somebody else (can also be another family member). The reasoning is that somebody living alone has higher expenses than somebody living together with somebody else.

[tryasimight]

19 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

Okay. His problem recently was that he looked on the Thai government website to check what was required but when he got to Savannakhet there were new rules posted on the window re the 20,000 baht & ticket out stuff that was introduced at the beginning of this year. The website hasn't yet been updated, or so he told me. He printed out the page that is now on the website but it makes no mention of the above. The girl he spoke with there was very pleasant about saying no, though.

 

He is getting 60 day tourist entries and goes to Sakon Nakon to get another 30 days added, and is content to do that for now. So ubonjoe #5 above nailed it. Thanks. The way the rules are constantly revised though makes him nervous.

I wonder how many people there are in Thailand who, like him, support a Thai family but there is no visa that is properly relevant to them. I guess maybe not many, as most are willing and able to marry a local. It seems silly to me that he has to rely on tourist visas when he isn't a tourist. In a year or two, when he's cleared some debts in Europe, he'll go for the retirement visa.

There are options available to him - but they all involve having sufficient funds.

Sufficient funds = options

Insufficient funds = not so many options

 

I do feel for your friend but perhaps you need to have a frank talk to him. He may be surviving for now but what will happen if the baht gains even more strength and his pension is worth relatively less.

[paul18620]

9 minutes ago, tryasimight said:

(Immigration)thanks you for raising that....we can expect another crack down on dodgy agents/practices in the near future.

I doubt that there will be as they are just stopping there own "tea money",so this will never happen in Thailand.

[tryasimight]

1 minute ago, paul18620 said:

I doubt that there will be as they are just stopping there own "tea money",so this will never happen in Thailand.

I'm sure a lot of people hope you are correct.

[BritTim]

4 hours ago, paul18620 said:

I doubt that there will be as they are just stopping there own "tea money",so this will never happen in Thailand.

There is a lot of corruption in Thailand (and the higher up the chain of command you go, the more prevalent it becomes). That does influence regulations. However, rule changes that affect collection of tea money are still sometimes implemented, especially when misconduct becomes too visible.Things like the dodgy retirement extensions are far from secure in the long term.

[jeab1980]

22 minutes ago, BritTim said:

There is a lot of corruption in Thailand (and the higher up the chain of command you go, the more prevalent it becomes). That does influence regulations. However, rule changes that affect collection of tea money are still sometimes implemented, especially when misconduct becomes too visible.Things like the dodgy retirement extensions are far from secure in the long term.

Nothing in Thailand is secure in the long term including the now goverment. But for now its secure as its ever going to be whilst there is T money to be had and other perks from agents, i see no (in the foreseeable future) change to current practises.

[Tanoshi]

19 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

No-one on this thread, as far as I can see, has blamed Thai immigration. My question was what options he has within the rules. He has since told me he is okay for now to rely on a series of tourist visas and extensions.

Without knowing his age and his income from pensions, suggestions for options are limited.

 

He could I assume return to Holland and apply for an 0-A Visa, which would see him through the next two years and hopefully his debts/financial position may have improved by then.

[paul18620]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

There is a lot of corruption in Thailand (and the higher up the chain of command you go, the more prevalent it becomes). That does influence regulations. However, rule changes that affect collection of tea money are still sometimes implemented, especially when misconduct becomes too visible.Things like the dodgy retirement extensions are far from secure in the long term.

Misconduct too visible well holy mollie with that statement you have just said and really your having a laugh

as they really must of had their eyes closed when they let the Red Bull prince go and not to mention the 1 that has just fled as well and they said they don't even know where she is well pigs must really fly ,but they will keep and split up the 30 million baht bail money they took from her.

[Bangkok Barry]

9 hours ago, tryasimight said:

He might be Ok with it.....immigration may not be so happy in the longer term.

Does the OA visa apply for him based on his state pension or is that only for UK people?

 

Sorry to say this, and good luck to the gentleman, but I can't see this ending well at all.

Elite visa out of the question, recently retired but still has debts that will take at least 2 years to pay off, can't afford the 800,000 for a retirement extension (20,000 mentioned  for a tourist visa this may also be a problem?) and supporting a woman and two kids.....?????

You could be right on the long term thing, although he is okay for the 20;000.

[mikecha]

Well   everybody coming back on this talk about less pension 

 

i called svb today that isthe Dutch buro of pensions and they said that they do not pay out less if you are married to a thai even if you live in thailand what they did say was that the transfer cost for putting money into a thai account  you need to pay the service rates 

 

also was said if you have a Dutch account still in Holland   they pay the money there then no cost 

Then can do a wire transfer every 3 months at about 5 euro so i do not see where this idea came from getting less pension .

 

i get mine in full no problem just to  a Dutch bank 

if you dont have a bank  account  in holland open one easy or go to ING in BKK and ask .

[Bangkok Barry]

8 minutes ago, mikecha said:

Well   everybody coming back on this talk about less pension 

 

i called svb today that isthe Dutch buro of pensions and they said that they do not pay out less if you are married to a thai even if you live in thailand what they did say was that the transfer cost for putting money into a thai account  you need to pay the service rates 

 

also was said if you have a Dutch account still in Holland   they pay the money there then no cost 

Then can do a wire transfer every 3 months at about 5 euro so i do not see where this idea came from getting less pension .

 

i get mine in full no problem just to  a Dutch bank 

if you dont have a bank  account  in holland open one easy or go to ING in BKK and ask .

That is very interesting information which I'll pass on to him. You could be on his Christmas card list!  

[stevenl]

16 minutes ago, mikecha said:

Well   everybody coming back on this talk about less pension 

 

i called svb today that isthe Dutch buro of pensions and they said that they do not pay out less if you are married to a thai even if you live in thailand what they did say was that the transfer cost for putting money into a thai account  you need to pay the service rates 

 

also was said if you have a Dutch account still in Holland   they pay the money there then no cost 

Then can do a wire transfer every 3 months at about 5 euro so i do not see where this idea came from getting less pension .

 

i get mine in full no problem just to  a Dutch bank 

if you dont have a bank  account  in holland open one easy or go to ING in BKK and ask .

Of course they don't pay out less if you're married to a Thai, they pay out the same amount, no matter who you're married to. But the amount for somebody living alone is higher than for somebody living together with somebody else.

[tryasimight]

On 9/12/2017 at 11:38 AM, Bangkok Barry said:

Savannakhet there were new rules posted on the window re the 20,000 baht & ticket

Glad that he's ok for the 20,000.....it sounded as though he might be short of cash after the Savannakhet episode you mentioned.

[Bangkok Barry]

2 minutes ago, tryasimight said:

Glad that he's ok for the 20,000.....it sounded as though he might be short of cash after the Savannakhet episode you mentioned.

No. He just didn't expect it and wasn't prepared, as he found no reference to it on the relevant Thai government website. Seems they haven't updated it this year with the new rules.

[mikecha]

7 hours ago, stevenl said:

Of course they don't pay out less if you're married to a Thai, they pay out the same amount, no matter who you're married to. But the amount for somebody living alone is higher than for somebody living together with somebody else.

No a dutch state pension is a set   amont to all individuals either man or woman they dont have a married pension amount 

every body get it  so if the persons partner dies you get less thats how it is 

[mikecha]

All Dutch state pensions are individual  meaning man and woman get the same but not in 1 man woman married packet 

both get seperetlaly    people get a state pension if you pay for it from your earnings so if you have not paid anything you get nothing 

 

if you are a Dutch woman citisen of Holland and Always have been a house wife you will get a pension 

 

[Tanoshi]

9 hours ago, mikecha said:

No a dutch state pension is a set   amont to all individuals either man or woman they dont have a married pension amount 

every body get it  so if the persons partner dies you get less thats how it is 

 

Maximum monthly state pension payments

To have a general idea of how much a person can expect to receive each month from the state pension it’s possible to look at the standard example of people who have lived in the Netherlands from age 15 to 65 and who receive a full pension:

• Couples living together
  Around 700 euros each gross per month (50 percent of the current minimum wage).
• People living alone
  Around 1.000 euros gross per month (70 percent of the current minimum wage).

https://www.iamexpat.nl/expat-info/official-issues/pensions-retirement-netherlands 

 

Looks like a different amount for people living alone and couples living together to me!

The key question here is that a Thai partner wouldn't be entitled to a Dutch state pension, having made no contributions, so they may not be recognised as a couple living together under this guidance, which applies to Dutch residents.

 

If they are going to apply the rule and reduce the Dutch citizens pension because he lives in a foreign Country, with a foreign partner, then by the same rule they should pay the reduced rate to both. They either recognise a foreign partner, or they don't.

I know a few Dutch expats, married to Thais and never once have they complained about their state pension being reduced because they are living with someone.

[stevenl]

9 hours ago, mikecha said:

No a dutch state pension is a set   amont to all individuals either man or woman they dont have a married pension amount 

every body get it  so if the persons partner dies you get less thats how it is 

Totally incorrect. The pensions are personal: a single person gets more than somebody living together. So if somebody dies the remaining individual gets personally more, but it will be considerable lower than the couple received. That is why the friend of the OP would get less if he reported his actual living conditions to the Social Security Office (SSO) or in Holland SVB. The SSO can also do living checks BTW, so there is a realistic chance the OP's friend will get caught out.

[stevenl]

10 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

 

Maximum monthly state pension payments

To have a general idea of how much a person can expect to receive each month from the state pension it’s possible to look at the standard example of people who have lived in the Netherlands from age 15 to 65 and who receive a full pension:

• Couples living together
  Around 700 euros each gross per month (50 percent of the current minimum wage).
• People living alone
  Around 1.000 euros gross per month (70 percent of the current minimum wage).

https://www.iamexpat.nl/expat-info/official-issues/pensions-retirement-netherlands 

 

Looks like a different amount for people living alone and couples living together to me!

The key question here is that a Thai partner wouldn't be entitled to a Dutch state pension, having made no contributions, so they may not be recognised as a couple living together under this guidance, which applies to Dutch residents.

 

If they are going to apply the rule and reduce the Dutch citizens pension because he lives in a foreign Country, with a foreign partner, then by the same rule they should pay the reduced rate to both. They either recognise a foreign partner, or they don't.

I know a few Dutch expats, married to Thais and never once have they complained about their state pension being reduced because they are living with someone.

"If they are going to apply the rule and reduce the Dutch citizens pension because he lives in a foreign Country, with a foreign partner, then by the same rule they should pay the reduced rate to both. They either recognise a foreign partner, or they don't."

They do, provided the foreign partner has been paying in to the state pension during working years (used to be 2% per year from 15-65, this is changing at the moment due to changing retirement age).

 

"I know a few Dutch expats, married to Thais and never once have they complained about their state pension being reduced because they are living with someone."

Because according to their official status they are living alone, or they used to live in the Netherlands and they have both been paying in to the state pension.

[Tanoshi]

46 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Because according to their official status they are living alone, or they used to live in the Netherlands and they have both been paying in to the state pension.

 

I guess they just don't notify the Dutch authorities.

'Out of sight, out of mind' scenario.

I can't recall reading any reports of Dutch officials knocking on Thai doors to check the living status of a Dutch citizen.

 

Like everything else in life, you roll the dice and take your chances.

[ALFREDO]

23 hours ago, BritTim said:

Things like the dodgy retirement extensions are far from secure in the long term.

LOL, but they are since long available and as money talks - will be longer - I believe.  

[ALFREDO]

On 12/9/2560 at 9:14 AM, ubonjoe said:

he cannot qualify for the extension

 

-ubonjoe-

Got on another Forum the question -

why I not go to Savanneketh Thai Consulate and make a Non Immigrant O Multiple Entry Visa - 

 

I living with Thai family and my Thai children and provide for them - I think on that basis - I not married, not retired,

I cannot get such a Visa in the region - as far as I remember from previous Forum postings here on Thaivisa.

 

In the moment I make Non Immigrant O single entry and sometime a Border run for Visa exempt entry - Land border and Airport border and 60 days extension on these Visa.

 

Thank you 

 

 

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

 

I guess they just don't notify the Dutch authorities.

'Out of sight, out of mind' scenario.

I can't recall reading any reports of Dutch officials knocking on Thai doors to check the living status of a Dutch citizen.

 

Like everything else in life, you roll the dice and take your chances.

Very true. It would not be the Dutch authorities knocking on Thai doors though but Thai authorities, the handling of this has been delegated to the Thai SSO.

 

And the OPs friend marrying in Thailand would have no impact on his practical living situation or contact with SSO, but would potentially make life easier with Thai immigration.

[Evilbaz]

The situation for Australians (referenced above) is that couples- married or defacto (if both eligible for OAP)  get a lesser rate per person than the Single rate by approx. 25%.

Australian Social Security recognizes de facto and de jure relationships as equal.

 

So an Aussie pensioner married to a Thai (who would likely be ineligible for OAP) would, if discovered, lose 25% of their Single OAP rate.

There is no longer any widow benefits.

[stevenl]

2 minutes ago, Evilbaz said:

The situation for Australians (referenced above) is that couples- married or defacto (if both eligible for OAP)  get a lesser rate per person than the Single rate by approx. 25%.

Australian Social Security recognizes de facto and de jure relationships as equal.

 

So an Aussie pensioner married to a Thai (who would likely be ineligible for OAP) would, if discovered, lose 25% of their Single OAP rate.

There is no longer any widow benefits.

That makes it very similar to the Dutch situation. At the moment for Dutchies widow benefits are in a transition period, depending on date of birth they could still be eligible.

[Bangkok Barry]

Thank you all for your comments. There is some conflicting information here, and I'll now send a link to the person involved and he can sift through it all and draw his own conclusions.