The future of Pattaya? The Future of Thailand?

[The manic]

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2016/sep/07/deepti-kapoor-why-i-am-leaving-goa

I stayed for 6 months on Anjuna beach in 1974...The glory days of nudists, cheap substances, cheap digs, unspoilt beaches-only one hotel in Calengute at the time..no Indian tourists, no or little crime, no interfering filth.  You see where I'm going with this? The ruination of GoA might be mirrored by the ruination of Pattaya and Thailand in general. Once it happens it can never be turned back. It is lost for ever.

[champers]

Cheap air travel and social media are to blame. Nowhere is "secret" and exclusive anymore, apart from privately owned islands. 

Do you want to know where mine is? Mind your own business! ?

[473geo]

I consider myself fortunate to have passed time in Kata Karon some 30 years ago, you could walk from the little nest of bars down a dirt track to the beach, watch the sun come up, and yes drink all night until you did so. Thai people smiled/laughed/played and partied. You rarely needed a tuc tuc, or rent a motorsi, one of the girls would run you around where ever you wanted to go. Beer, food, entertainment was tasty varied and cheap. I really enjoyed my visits for years then fancied a change. 

After  few years gap I returned, barely recognised the place, almost all the 'open' land areas were built on, attitude of the people appeared lifeless and less cordial......never went back again, for me the place had simply lost its' charm.

For those who never knew it before maybe it is still a desirable destination.

Just to add thanks for the memories

 

 

 

 

Edited September 17, 2017 by 473geo

[The manic]

7 minutes ago, champers said:

Cheap air travel and social media are to blame. Nowhere is "secret" and exclusive anymore, apart from privately owned islands. 

Do you want to know where mine is? Mind your own business! ?

Maybe, but social media can function to dissuade people from visiting places. And intolerant corrupt police, rising violent crime piles of rubbish are not caused by SM or cheap flights.

[tonray]

Oh boy...the "auld lang syne" club at it again.....

 

"Those were the good old days mate...

 

"Never see anything like that again....

 

Guess what...there are just as many neat and innovative places and things to do as ever....you are just getting older and your perceptions of happiness and excitement stick in your memories because those were the good old days for you.....but many younger folks are having their own good old days now....it's all relative.

[The manic]

12 minutes ago, tonray said:

Oh boy...the "auld lang syne" club at it again.....

 

"Those were the good old days mate...

 

"Never see anything like that again....

 

Guess what...there are just as many neat and innovative places and things to do as ever....you are just getting older and your perceptions of happiness and excitement stick in your memories because those were the good old days for you.....but many younger folks are having their own good old days now....it's all relative.

I don't think it's just a matter of perception or just false nostalgia. Places change. Soi LK Metro was jungle not long ago. Soi 7 only had one bar. In the case of Goa the changes have changed for the worst without a doubt.  The younger generation are following a well beaten path not of their own creation. I hope they are having a good time but they live in our shadows even though they do not know it. Rubbish, violent crime, bent greedy cops, useless, interfering authorities. These patterns sadly repeat themselves.

Edited September 17, 2017 by The manic

[geriatrickid]

Pattaya was lost long ago, much as Patong and most of Koh Samui was lost about 15 years ago.  If one wishes to rediscover a taste of old Thailand, there is the Nahkon Si Thammarat coast. If you can ignore the pollution,  the  plastic, jagged  metal, and broken glass on some of the nicest beach areas, it brings back memories of undeveloped Thailand. The downside of course is that it is difficult to find a 7-11 or  a Central, and the electrical grid and water supply is as bad as Patong's in dry season. 

 

We can lament the demise of once nice spots, but such is life. Just move on or adapt to the  change in the environment. I left Phuket and haven't been back in 2 years. I don't regret it either. It's nice to pay on average 25% less and to not get caught in a tourist clip joint.  This is the characteristic of all tourist destinations and  has played out before in south Florida, and the southern resorts of Spain and France. At least their problems were not pushed along by the bullying, terrorism and sectarian violence now common to  tourist destinations in Turkey and North Africa. 

 

[The manic]

4 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

Pattaya was lost long ago, much as Patong and most of Koh Samui was lost about 15 years ago.  If one wishes to rediscover a taste of old Thailand, there is the Nahkon Si Thammarat coast. If you can ignore the pollution,  the  plastic, jagged  metal, and broken glass on some of the nicest beach areas, it brings back memories of undeveloped Thailand. The downside of course is that it is difficult to find a 7-11 or  a Central, and the electrical grid and water supply is as bad as Patong's in dry season. 

 

We can lament the demise of once nice spots, but such is life. Just move on or adapt to the  change in the environment. I left Phuket and haven't been back in 2 years. I don't regret it either. It's nice to pay on average 25% less and to not get caught in a tourist clip joint.  This is the characteristic of all tourist destinations and  has played out before in south Florida, and the southern resorts of Spain and France. At least their problems were not pushed along by the bullying, terrorism and sectarian violence now common to  tourist destinations in Turkey and North Africa. 

 

Amen to that! I used to live in Tehran when it was party central and Pakistan and Afghanistan were fun! I still enjoy Pattaya but travel around other parts of Thailand frequently and widely.

Edited September 17, 2017 by The manic

[473geo]

Nice try but the

11 minutes ago, tonray said:

there are just as many neat and innovative places and things to do as ever

And the old boys continue to make memories, and have fun, pointing out change in the old locations does not imply they are not creating more memories in a new location, or a lack of enthusiasm, but shows they accept there are some memories that simply cannot be recreated due to change often under the name of 'progress'

[tonray]

24 minutes ago, The manic said:

I don't think it's just a matter of perception or just false nostalgia. Places change. Soi LK Metro was jungle not long ago. Soi 7 only had one bar. In the case of Goa the changes have changed for the worst without a doubt.  The younger generation are following a well beaten path not of their own creation. I hope they are having a good time but they live in our shadows even though they do not know it. Rubbish, violent crime, bent greedy cops, useless, interfering authorities. These patterns sadly repeat themselves.

When I was a senior at University, a few of us were sitting around and regaling our favorite professor with sordid tales our our weekend. We thought we were the wildest, most out of control group ever. He chuckled and threw us a book on the exploits of Caligula and told us we were blazing no trails except the ones in our beer addled brains.  We all follow in the shadow of others. 

[tonray]

Carry on old soldiers.. the past awaits your lament.

[473geo]

3 minutes ago, tonray said:

When I was a senior at University, a few of us were sitting around and regaling our favorite professor with sordid tales our our weekend. We thought we were the wildest, most out of control group ever. He chuckled and threw us a book on the exploits of Caligula and told us we were blazing no trails except the ones in our beer addled brains.  We all follow in the shadow of others. 

Ah yes but take Thai visa for instance, do you think the approach to Thai women will be the same for a guy who has followed the activities/reports of relationships/entanglements on the internet.

 

When I first arrived in Thailand I was told about the Barber shops and knew nothing more......my experiences may not have been unique but they surely were not choreographed in advance

 

 

[The manic]

fings ain't wot they used to be..

Edited September 17, 2017 by The manic

[473geo]

I actually saw max Bygraves live, there are surely better experiences of singing out there these days  but he was an ok entertainer.

[tonray]

6 hours ago, 473geo said:

Ah yes but take Thai visa for instance, do you think the approach to Thai women will be the same for a guy who has followed the activities/reports of relationships/entanglements on the internet.

 

When I first arrived in Thailand I was told about the Barber shops and knew nothing more......my experiences may not have been unique but they surely were not choreographed in advance

 

 

Well...there's always trailblazing to be done yet as I really have not seen too many blogs about Walking Street in ISIS held territory....the good thing is you don't have to worry about 90 day reports or Visas.

[dotpoom]

Need to put a considerable amount of thought into this one!

Edited September 18, 2017 by dotpoom

[1FinickyOne]

I was in Pattaya in 1974 - - a dusty road and a few bungalows along a coconut tree lined paradise beach... but really, I did not expect this much change but all things do change - - and I change too... that's just how it is. 

[Asiantravel]

I can think of no better example of " Paradise lost " than what used to be the clean, beautiful with crystal clear waters Maldives(as I remember it fondly 30 years ago). It is heartbreaking to see what has happened to that place

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/517205/Mounds-rubbish-ruin-Maldives-paradise

[ichibawa13]

9 hours ago, 473geo said:

I consider myself fortunate to have passed time in Kata Karon some 30 years ago, you could walk from the little nest of bars down a dirt track to the beach, watch the sun come up, and yes drink all night until you did so. Thai people smiled/laughed/played and partied. You rarely needed a tuc tuc, or rent a motorsi, one of the girls would run you around where ever you wanted to go. Beer, food, entertainment was tasty varied and cheap. I really enjoyed my visits for years then fancied a change. 

After  few years gap I returned, barely recognised the place, almost all the 'open' land areas were built on, attitude of the people appeared lifeless and less cordial......never went back again, for me the place had simply lost its' charm.

For those who never knew it before maybe it is still a desirable destination.

Just to add thanks for the memories

Yes bro, I was there during the 70's it was really land with thousand smile, service was great, people are friendly, polite, few years ago i went to Bangkok, Pataya, sad to say i will not go back again. I am now residing in Cambodia. Good old days are gone.

 

 

 

 

 

[NanLaew]

8 hours ago, tonray said:

Oh boy...the "auld lang syne" club at it again.....

 

"Those were the good old days mate...

 

"Never see anything like that again....

 

Guess what...there are just as many neat and innovative places and things to do as ever....you are just getting older and your perceptions of happiness and excitement stick in your memories because those were the good old days for you.....but many younger folks are having their own good old days now....it's all relative.

But unfortunately there's only so much that Viagra can do.

 

...just hope that it's still available when your 'golden years' kick in and the price of adult pampers at Big C becomes more important than the tax on beer let alone the price of a short time.

[tonray]

8 hours ago, 473geo said:

Ah yes but take Thai visa for instance, do you think the approach to Thai women will be the same for a guy who has followed the activities/reports of relationships/entanglements on the internet.

 

When I first arrived in Thailand I was told about the Barber shops and knew nothing more......my experiences may not have been unique but they surely were not choreographed in advance

 

 

Clearly since expats keep making the same mistakes over and over again...they are not taking advantage of any prior experience or history of Thai/Expat relationships.

[nobodysfriend]

53 minutes ago, Asiantravel said:

I can think of no better example of " Paradise lost " than what used to be the clean, beautiful with crystal clear waters Maldives(as I remember it fondly 30 years ago). It is heartbreaking to see what has happened to that place

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/517205/Mounds-rubbish-ruin-Maldives-paradise

They call it " progress " , but progress is making nearly everything more bad ...

[Lucky mike]

11 hours ago, 473geo said:

I consider myself fortunate to have passed time in Kata Karon some 30 years ago, you could walk from the little nest of bars down a dirt track to the beach, watch the sun come up, and yes drink all night until you did so. Thai people smiled/laughed/played and partied. You rarely needed a tuc tuc, or rent a motorsi, one of the girls would run you around where ever you wanted to go. Beer, food, entertainment was tasty varied and cheap. I really enjoyed my visits for years then fancied a change. 

After  few years gap I returned, barely recognised the place, almost all the 'open' land areas were built on, attitude of the people appeared lifeless and less cordial......never went back again, for me the place had simply lost its' charm.

For those who never knew it before maybe it is still a desirable destination.

Just to add thanks for the memories

 

 

 

 

Very Buddhist, the only constant is change, although not always for the good ?

[craigt3365]

11 hours ago, tonray said:

Oh boy...the "auld lang syne" club at it again.....

 

"Those were the good old days mate...

 

"Never see anything like that again....

 

Guess what...there are just as many neat and innovative places and things to do as ever....you are just getting older and your perceptions of happiness and excitement stick in your memories because those were the good old days for you.....but many younger folks are having their own good old days now....it's all relative.

There are many interesting places that are off the beaten track.  Just need to hunt them down.

 

But yes, cheap airfares have ruined many places.  Mass tourism is ruining many places now.

[rhodie]

3 hours ago, ichibawa13 said:

Yes bro, I was there during the 70's it was really land with thousand smile, service was great, people are friendly, polite, few years ago i went to Bangkok, Pataya, sad to say i will not go back again. I am now residing in Cambodia. Good old days are gone.

So have you found the new Pattaya in Cambodia? Can you please tell us where it is? 

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, tonray said:

Oh boy...the "auld lang syne" club at it again.....

 

"Those were the good old days mate...

 

"Never see anything like that again....

 

Guess what...there are just as many neat and innovative places and things to do as ever....you are just getting older and your perceptions of happiness and excitement stick in your memories because those were the good old days for you.....but many younger folks are having their own good old days now....it's all relative.

LOL. The young ones don't know what it used to be like. They certainly don't seem very interested in their surroundings now. Coming from the airport on their way to the backpacker slum of Khao San Rd in Bkk, they are more interested in their phone than the strange and wonderful country they paid a lot of money to visit.

Ah, Khao San, the bagpacker zoo where one can see them buying silly clothes because it's "ethnic", drinking cheap beer and telling BS stories about all the great places they've been.

Then they'll head out on the thief special tourist buses to get wasted on Hat Rin. Sure they have a great time, if they remember it, but they'll never see the real Thailand, the places they go.

[VBF]

Joni Mitchell's "Big Yellow Taxi" says it neatly, especially, IMO applied to Phuket:

 

They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
With a pink hotel, a boutique
And a swinging hot spot

 

Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got til its gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot

 

 

 

 

Edited September 18, 2017 by VBF

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

There are many interesting places that are off the beaten track.  Just need to hunt them down.

 

But yes, cheap airfares have ruined many places.  Mass tourism is ruining many places now.

The difference between mass tourism and non mass tourism is that the average "mass" tourist has no interest in their surroundings beyond an occasional organized tour to see long neck tribes or trek the "untouched" hills ( LOL ).

Most of them appear to pick an hotel that looks good in the brochure, and spend most of their time blobbing beside the pool and drinking stuff with little umbrellas.

For all they know, or care, they could be anywhere in the world, but I guess they like to tell all their friends about the holiday they had in Thailand.

 

I wouldn't care except the greedy developers knock down all the brilliant cheap places on the beaches to put up horrid concrete flashpacker resorts so they can make lotsacash.

Used to be there were both expensive and cheap places sharing nice beaches, but they have either gone already, or going. Sad.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, VBF said:

Joni Mitchell's "Big Yellow Taxi" says it neatly, especially, IMO applied to Phuket:

 

They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
With a pink hotel, a boutique
And a swinging hot spot

 

 

 

The best beach in Thailand, Hat Rin, has been completely destroyed by the greedies catering to the masses that come to get wasted.

Tragic.

Anything that attracts tourists and is half way nice has been destroyed already, or is going to be.

Bottle, the once upon a time mecca of the beach lovers has been ruined with a big concrete hotel in the middle of it. They even made a swimming pool.

[morrobay]

OP : The future of Pattaya ? But most of the replies above are about the past