Overstay: Flight booked but not enough money to pay fine.

[JackThompson]

3 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

Transiting = getting off one flight, remaining airside at the airport, and then departing on another flight - not entering the country.  The OP will do this when she flies from BKK to NBO where she will transit onto a flight to SA.

Correct.  If the ETD cannot be used to enter another country (in some cases they can) - as in, "stamp in and stay" - then my suggestion cannot help. 

 

Just now, ubonjoe said:

The OP wrote in an earlier post that the embassy would not issue the ETD without a ticket to South Africa.

I think that answers your question.

Ok - I read back a few pages but missed that. 

[steve187]

1 minute ago, Aditi Sharma said:

I am sorry I was imagining it would be easier to sneak out of Thailand through a land border, lets say into Cambodia, head to the airport and take the flight available to SA. What is OP? And what is NBO?

op = original poster

NBO = airport in Kenya

 

i think the op should do what she needs to do to catch the flight using the etd

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, Aditi Sharma said:

I am sorry I was imagining it would be easier to sneak out of Thailand through a land border,

That would mean entering another country illegally. Without a entry stamp she would not be allowed to leave that other country and would be charged with illegal entry.

[JackThompson]

2 minutes ago, Aditi Sharma said:

I am sorry I was imagining it would be easier to sneak out of Thailand through a land border, lets say into Cambodia, head to the airport and take the flight available to SA. What is OP? And what is NBO?

OP = "Original Poster" - person who started the thread. 
NBO = An international airport in Nairobi, Kenya (admit I had to look it up)

It would be hard to get on a plane, a process requiring passing through outgoing immigration, without a legal entry to the country.  Granted, Yingluck may have pulled it off using a private-plane, but I don't think that maneuver would be in the OP's budget (or mine).

[Aditi Sharma]

I think OP's country's mission have a lot to answer for. They have got to help her in this. No country should allow its citizens to be exposed to prosecution for no apparent fault of their own . The Thais have their rules and we ought to respect them even if it extends to being arrested questioned and jail time but foreign missions have a role to play in bailing their citizens out. I think OP should petition her embassy for financial assistance. Surety can be obtained from her relatives back home. 

Edited September 26, 2017 by Aditi Sharma
correction

[007 RED]

5 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Correct.  If the ETD cannot be used to enter another country (in some cases they can) - as in, "stamp in and stay" - then my suggestion cannot help. 

 

Ok - I read back a few pages but missed that. 

FYI - It very much depends upon the Embassy (country) issuing the ETD.... Normally the ETD specifies the country of departure, country of destination and if applicable any countries of transit (maximum 5).   So if someone was stranded in Spain for example and returning to UK by train their ETD would specify transit via France and possible Belgium.

 

In the case of the OP she will depart BKK and transit in NBO for onward flight to SA.

[Aditi Sharma]

The issue is that OP does not have 20,000 bahts to pay towards the fine and the immigration deparment cannot be expected to offer her a discount on it regardless of her circumstances. The ETD and the return ticket become irrelevant when she does not make good on the amount on which the immigration department will have a legitimate claim. They might very well ask her to borrow from her relatives or friends through the embassy. I think she should apply to the embassy for financial assistance. 

Edited September 26, 2017 by Aditi Sharma
correction

[007 RED]

10 minutes ago, Aditi Sharma said:

I think OP's country's mission have a lot to answer for. They have got to help her in this. No country should allow its citizens to be exposed to prosecution for no apparent fault of their own . The Thais have their rules and we ought to respect them even if it extends to being arrested questioned and jail time but foreign missions have a role to play in bailing their citizens out. I think OP should petition her embassy for financial assistance. Surety can be obtained from her relatives back home. 

I think that you need to go back and read what the OP said in her previous posts.  She indicated that there was a miscommunication between her and the Embassy ..... but she also accepts that the 7 month overstay was her own fault.   IN posy No. 96 she states:  "The issue spiraled out of control and before I knew it's 7 months. The calender is an enemy of an overstayer. My fault for treating it with no sense of urgency. My fault. Period".

 

I am fairly sure that when she reported the loss of her passport to the Embassy they would have automatically suggested an ETD to enable her to get back home, but no doubt her focus was on replacing her passport.

 

Regarding her Embassy assisting her.... Like all Embassies and Consulates around the world they only offer very limited assistance in cases like the OP.  Yes, as a last resort they sometimes are able to assist financially, but the OP would need to have a reasonable credit history back in SA and have guarantors that will pay back if she defaults.

[Aditi Sharma]

3 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

I think that you need to go back and read what the OP said in her previous posts.  She indicated that there was a miscommunication between her and the Embassy ..... but she also accepts that the 7 month overstay was her own fault.   IN posy No. 96 she states:  "The issue spiraled out of control and before I knew it's 7 months. The calender is an enemy of an overstayer. My fault for treating it with no sense of urgency. My fault. Period".

 

I am fairly sure that when she reported the loss of her passport to the Embassy they would have automatically suggested an ETD to enable her to get back home, but no doubt her focus was on replacing her passport.

 

Regarding her Embassy assisting her.... Like all Embassies and Consulates around the world they only offer very limited assistance in cases like the OP.  Yes, as a last resort they sometimes are able to assist financially, but the OP would need to have a reasonable credit history back in SA and have guarantors that will pay back if she defaults.

What are the chances that they will waive off the part of the fine she wont be able to pay on the strength of the ETD and the ticket to Kenya?

[welovesundaysatspace]

Couldn't she get a refund for her ticket, wait for her new passport to be issued, then leave to e.g. Cambodia or Vietnam using the ticket refund for the overstay fine to get a teaching job there? Of course, only possible if the ticket is refundable. But if that's the case, another x weeks overstay shouldn't make the situation much more worse right (understand the overstay fine is capped at 20k)? Just an idea, I might be completely wrong.

 

Good luck anyways. Wouldn't wanna be in such situation. 

[007 RED]

3 minutes ago, Aditi Sharma said:

What are the chances that they will waive off the part of the fine she wont be able to pay on the strength of the ETD and the ticket to Kenya?

On a scale of 1 to 10.... where1 is little chance and 10 is every chance.... I would suspect ZERO chance that immigration will waive all or part of the fine.   Common sense would indicate that if they did it would open the floodgates for everyone to claim that they only have 100Baht when departing and confronted with a overstay fine.

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, Aditi Sharma said:

What are the chances that they will waive off the part of the fine she wont be able to pay on the strength of the ETD and the ticket to Kenya?

No chance of that when departing the country. Immigration has no authority to do that.

Only a judge can lower the fine and that requires being put in detention and deported.

[Aditi Sharma]

9 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Couldn't she get a refund for her ticket, wait for her new passport to be issued, then leave to e.g. Cambodia or Vietnam using the ticket refund for the overstay fine to get a teaching job there? Of course, only possible if the ticket is refundable. But if that's the case, another x weeks overstay shouldn't make the situation much more worse right (understand the overstay fine is capped at 20k)? Just an idea, I might be completely wrong.

 

Good luck anyways. Wouldn't wanna be in such situation. 

A Kenya Airways economy class flight on October 1 , 2017 from BKK to NBO costs 35, 918 Bahts. So then...

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, Aditi Sharma said:

A Kenya Airways economy class flight on October 1 , 2017 from BKK to NBO costs 35, 918 Bahts. So then...

I suspect they bought the ticket further in advance than 5 days. Buying a ticket well in advance can lower the costs substantially.

[BritTim]

34 minutes ago, Aditi Sharma said:

I think OP's country's mission have a lot to answer for. They have got to help her in this. No country should allow its citizens to be exposed to prosecution for no apparent fault of their own . The Thais have their rules and we ought to respect them even if it extends to being arrested questioned and jail time but foreign missions have a role to play in bailing their citizens out. I think OP should petition her embassy for financial assistance. Surety can be obtained from her relatives back home. 

The full facts are not very clear. What is likely true is that the OP is already on a 7 month overstay, and a replacement South African passport can take up to 6 months. The normal procedure with a lost passport, and a need to travel urgently is to get an emergency travel document. We do not know if the embassy suggested that. We do not know if, 7 months ago, the OP had the 15,000 baht or so necessary for a one-way ticket to Johannesburg. I am not ready to condemn the South African authorities as I am unsure they are responsible for the failure of the OP to return promptly to home country when a problem arose.

[Aditi Sharma]

4 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I would say go for the work in your situation. Just be carefull. 

Save pawing your stuff as a last resort if you come up short.

OP I think you would do worse than follow this course suggested by ubonjoe.

[gilo]

My experience with immigration on paying the overstay fine at Bangkok airport was that the priority was the formalities, Tm6, paperwork and paying the fine. Until those had been dealt with the officers were (quite rightly in my case given the length, the overstay) ,extremely cold if not hostile. My impression was that simply they were doing a job within the bureaucracy of the department. So long as one complied with the rules for exiting the country then that was all they were concerned about irrespective of the fact of having failed to adhere to the rules for staying legitimately in the country. My point being that if you cause the process to not proceed according to the set rules at the border either expect a hostile response or significant/costly expenses. Once I had paid for my overstay the officers were quite chilled and curious as the official aspects had been dealt with. I think that having the 20k at the airport is a non-negotiable. Whether that is the case at a land border I don't know but suspect not, only perhaps for some leniency on the ban and not on the money. 

[Aditi Sharma]

3 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I suspect they bought the ticket further in advance than 5 days. Buying a ticket well in advance can lower the costs substantially.

So there welovesundaysatspace...refund is not an option. She has got to go back to work and raise the money. But how long can she overstay? Anybody?

[007 RED]

6 minutes ago, Aditi Sharma said:

A Kenya Airways economy class flight on October 1 , 2017 from BKK to NBO costs 35, 918 Bahts. So then...

I suspect that because of the OP's limited financial situation, she purchased the cheapest economy fare available.  Unfortunately such fares carry a very heavy penalty for cancelation/no-show prior to departure... in some cases it can be as much as 50% of the original fare.  She would need to look very carefully at the airlines T&C of booking before making any such decision. 

[Aditi Sharma]

4 minutes ago, gilo said:

My experience with immigration on paying the overstay fine at Bangkok airport was that the priority was the formalities, Tm6, paperwork and paying the fine. Until those had been dealt with the officers were (quite rightly in my case given the length, the overstay) ,extremely cold if not hostile. My impression was that simply they were doing a job within the bureaucracy of the department. So long as one complied with the rules for exiting the country then that was all they were concerned about irrespective of the fact of having failed to adhere to the rules for staying legitimately in the country. My point being that if you cause the process to not proceed according to the set rules at the border either expect a hostile response or significant/costly expenses. Once I had paid for my overstay the officers were quite chilled and curious as the official aspects had been dealt with. I think that having the 20k at the airport is a non-negotiable. Whether that is the case at a land border I don't know but suspect not, only perhaps for some leniency on the ban and not on the money. 

Beautiful.

[ubonjoe]

12 minutes ago, Aditi Sharma said:

So there welovesundaysatspace...refund is not an option. She has got to go back to work and raise the money. But how long can she overstay? Anybody?

They stated the ticket out of the country is in about 2 weeks. They are working to get the remaining 10k baht needed.

There is no actual limit on overstay. Only the banning gets more severe. She will be for 1 year (over 90 days) with the overlay she has now. After a year it will go up to 3 years. Then 3 years is 5 years and the last step is 5 years that is 10 years.

[Aditi Sharma]

I hope OP is reading this thread or will as I am here for her. It will be tough for her to raise 10k in less than 2 weeks. Does she know any places frequented mostly by South Africans? Are there South African establishments in BKK so that she may appeal to the boss's generosity in bailing her out. A SouthAfrican ghetto anywhere? Like Chinatown?

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, Aditi Sharma said:

I hope OP is reading this thread or will as I am here for her. It will be tough for her to raise 10k in less than 2 weeks.

Based upon the hourly wage she posted only about 40 hours of work is needed.

[Aditi Sharma]

4 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Based upon the hourly wage she posted only about 40 hours of work is needed.

The Girl, I think do your time in the classroom earn your fine ( as it happens) and leave respectfully. If you think there isnt enough time on the ticket you've got, see if it can be cancelled and get a refund now. We are sure now they wont reduce the fine without a judge but you dont want to go through that experience. 

Edited September 26, 2017 by Aditi Sharma
correction

[BritTim]

25 minutes ago, gilo said:

I think that having the 20k at the airport is a non-negotiable. Whether that is the case at a land border I don't know but suspect not, only perhaps for some leniency on the ban and not on the money.

In most cases, at land borders, they will refuse to deal with long overstays and instruct you to leave by air. I have heard Nong Khai may be an exception to this. There are rumors that some border points with Cambodia may be amenable to fixing overstay issues, but for more than 20,000 baht.

[Aditi Sharma]

2 minutes ago, BritTim said:

In most cases, at land borders, they will refuse to deal with long overstays and instruct you to leave by air. I have heard Nong Khai may be an exception to this. There are rumors that some border points with Cambodia may be amenable to fixing overstay issues, but for more than 20,000 baht.

Any chance that she can hide in a lorry crossing the border or maybe hide in a ship sailing for Africa? Just kidding. Money is her problem right now.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Aditi Sharma
correction

[BritTim]

29 minutes ago, Aditi Sharma said:

Any chance that she can hide in a lorry crossing the border or maybe hide in a ship sailing for Africa? Just kidding. Money is her problem right now.

Half a century ago, someone successfully sent themselves air freight from England to Australia on a cash on delivery basis: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-31700049. The chances of pulling something like that off today are zero.

[4evermaat]

No chance of that when departing the country. Immigration has no authority to do that.

Only a judge can lower the fine and that requires being put in detention and deported.

 

There are a lot of things done at immigration offices that they dont have authority to do. But what is the real alternative.... Stay longer, putting yourself at more risk? Still gotta eat, sleep, transport somewhere in the mean time, which will eventually dwindle down the little savings you have anyhow.

 

Immigration would likely lose money having to deal with the situation vs cutting a deal which allows OP to leave with a ban.

 

It would be different if OP could wait a few weeks and be assured that more funds are coming. But if 10k is all OP has...well reminds me of what FedEx did back when they were a young company and needed fuel money to make a shipment that if undone would have bankrupted the company.

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/fedex-saved-from-bankruptcy-with-blackjack-winnings-2014-7

 

[jackdd]

2 hours ago, Aditi Sharma said:

I am sorry I was imagining it would be easier to sneak out of Thailand through a land border, lets say into Cambodia, head to the airport and take the flight available to SA.

It's no problem to cross a border to Laos or Cambodia without a passport, the problem would occur when she has to pass the immigration at the airport in Laos or Cambodia, because she doesn't have a passport or entry stamp in the country. I don't know if being deported from Laos or Cambodia is better than Thailand.

[sanemax]

2 hours ago, jackdd said:

It's no problem to cross a border to Laos or Cambodia without a passport, the problem would occur when she has to pass the immigration at the airport in Laos or Cambodia, because she doesn't have a passport or entry stamp in the country. 

Thanks for the valuable info.