Driver nods off at wheel, kills mother and daughter

[inThailand]

What....driving while asleep, impaired or without a clue, that's news here?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PatOngo]

22 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Are you aware that not everybody can afford a car, and still have to take children to school etc ?

I agree about the idiot tourists who risk their children's life.

How about if the govt scrapped their submarine purchase and instead invested in school busses!

[Happy Grumpy]

14 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

However, in 'other' areas there are simply no alternatives.

There are always alternatives.

 

Bicycle.

Walk.

 

Just to mention two.

 

These are more effort and less convenient. 

But also healthier.

 

So it's little wonder that idiots choose the lazier, more convenient method. Though they might regret it if it's their kid's turn to be turned into bolognese sauce in front of them.

Edited October 4, 2017 by Happy Grumpy

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, PatOngo said:

How about if the govt scrapped their submarine purchase and instead invested in school busses!

I would agree with you, but i'm afraid you're barking at the wrong tree.

 

[Kadilo]

7 minutes ago, Happy Grumpy said:

There are always alternatives.

 

Bicycle.

Walk.

 

Just to mention two.

 

These are more effort and less convenient. 

But also healthier.

 

So it's little wonder that idiots choose the lazier, more convenient method. Though they might regret it if it's their kid's turn to be turned into bolognese sauce in front of them.

Is it a grumpy day?

[richard_smith237]

Just now, Happy Grumpy said:

There are always alternatives.

 

Bicycle.

Walk.

 

These are more effort and less convenient. 

But also healthier.

 

So it's little wonder that idiots choose the lazier, more convenient method. 

 

A motorcycle was impacted by a Vehicle who's driver fell asleep at the wheel... pedestrians and cyclists are equally at risk. 

A large solid vehicle is perhaps one of the limited options which may have saved them, perhaps something not at all available to these poor victims.

 

Additionally, the distances which need to be covered may not be achievable by walking or cycling. 

 

I would also argue that Cycling here is significantly more risky than motorcycling, especially with a Child.

 

I have to wonder whether you have thought about any of this before commenting. 

 

 

In the interests of offering a balanced discussion I do agree that for some taking a Motorcycle 500m down the road with 3 kids on the back is lazy and placing 5 kids on a motorcycle is perhaps stupid, however, this was a mother and child traveling safely on the road and the driver of another vehicle fell asleep and deviated into them killing them. 

 

This is a tragic event, one which could have been avoided through many alternative actions, but to call the majority of a nation stupid or lazy because they ride a motorcycle is perhaps the opinion of someone who refuses to accept the realities of life.....  it is on this point I have a question for you 'HG' - Do you think Motorcyclists in other countries (i.e. UK & US) equally lazy and stupid ? 

[Happy Grumpy]

A happy day. 

 

Didn't witness any kids under trucks today, but alas didn't venture too far from the aircon. 

[Kadilo]

5 hours ago, DLang said:

 

1) bicycle, with helmets and proper safety gear and seat.

2) Get some responsibility and buy a small car for your kid.

 

Will they be the next mother/child/scooter statistic? 

1) I don't consider that a safer method. 

2) Hes not driving age but thanks for your concern.

 

In all seriousness you make some valid points. Purchasing a car is on my priority list. 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2017 by Kadilo

[Happy Grumpy]

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

This is a tragic event, one which could have been avoided through many alternative actions, but to call the majority of a nation stupid or lazy because they ride a motorcycle is perhaps the opinion of someone who refuses to accept the realities of life.....  it is on this point I have a question for you 'HG' - Do you think Motorcyclists in other countries (i.e. UK & US) equally lazy and stupid ? 

 

You seem to be discussing this one event.

 

Anybody in any country taking their child out on the road on a scooter is lazy and yes, stupid.

 

Westerners doing it in Thailand even more so... they should know better, and they should know just how bad the driving and roads here are. Number one in the World for road deaths, so we are told, hard to believe a few Bongo Bongo nations don't kill more of their own on their roads, but there ya go. 

[thaiguzzi]

3 hours ago, Happy Grumpy said:

There are always alternatives.

 

Bicycle.

Walk.

 

Just to mention two.

 

These are more effort and less convenient. 

But also healthier.

 

So it's little wonder that idiots choose the lazier, more convenient method. Though they might regret it if it's their kid's turn to be turned into bolognese sauce in front of them.

Another post. Another choice collection of words. All from the comfort of your air conned room.

Idiots.

Lazy.

Bolognese sauce.

My what a fine specimen of a human being you are.

Everything so much better and safer (and cleverer) in the West innit?

Meanwhile, about 7.5 million Thai people get on with their lives and ride to work, school, home and back, everyday, without incident......

[Happy Grumpy]

47 minutes ago, thaiguzzi said:

Meanwhile, about 7.5 million Thai people get on with their lives and ride to work, school, home and back, everyday, without incident......

 

 

Are you actually defending Thai road behavior and safety????

 

Thai roads are the worst in the World if most stats are correct. And people take their kids out on them in scooters??

 

 

 

The kids should be taken off them and given to proper parents. 

[moe666]

1 hour ago, Happy Grumpy said:

 

 

Are you actually defending Thai road behavior and safety????

 

Thai roads are the worst in the World if most stats are correct. And people take their kids out on them in scooters??

 

 

 

The kids should be taken off them and given to proper parents. 

You are over your head with that statement, you probably never had children of your own and have not a clue what it takes to raise one. Stop making a fool of yourself

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, moe666 said:

You are over your head with that statement, you probably never had children of your own and have not a clue what it takes to raise one. Stop making a fool of yourself

 

Happy Grumpy's opinions make sense... It does seem crazy that parents would take their child on a motorcycle in a country with the worst road fatalities in the world (or 2nd worst according to some stats).

 

However, this opinion fits in a convenient polar world of only 'right and wrong', it avoids the socio-economic factors where necessity does not fit conveniently within the safety spectrum according to Western Standards. In other threads parents have been criticized for leaving young children at home while they work or do their shopping, in other threads parents are criticized for leaving their children 'up country' in the hands of grandparents who can offer them little beyond loving attention.

 

This is a multifaceted issue where there is no absolute 'right and wrong', rather, there are degrees of risk taking, for any of us who take a child in a car or taxi etc also face a more elevated level of risk here than many of us would in our home countries - the Road Fatality Statistics here in Thailand outline this. We could then expand the issues to other areas of safety and risk when living in Thailand.

 

Ultimately wherever we are there will always be an element of risk, we evaluate this risk and hopefully make the most informed decision we can, but these decisions will never fall within the realms of 'perfect safety', instead they fall within a 'spectrum'. For each of us our risk profile differs and is based on our education and experience. 

 

Threads such as this ultimately help us understand each others varying risk profile to some degree and it can be safely assumed that as peoples needs vary so does the degree to which they are prepared to take risk - hence we have children on motorcycles in some cases out of pure convenience, in other cases because there are few, little or no alternatives.

 

I agree with Happy Grumpy that a parent who has fully evaluated the risks would have to be stupid / idiotic to take a child on a motorcycle when there are alternatives, however, we also have a cultural aspect where in Thailand the motorcycle for many (the majority?) is the sole means of transport for the family. At times a motorcycle is not the sole means of transport and this is where Happy Grumpy suggest the parents are lazy, perhaps they are but they have grown up in a culture where this is the norm, primarily out of convenience for at times a 30 minute trip into town or to school could otherwise take significantly longer and have greater knock on effects to the well being of the family - in short, the risk is some how evaluated even if it is done so subconsciously. 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, moe666 said:

You are over your head with that statement, you probably never had children of your own and have not a clue what it takes to raise one. Stop making a fool of yourself

 

Happy Grumpy's opinions make sense... It does seem crazy that parents would take their child on a motorcycle in a country with the worst road fatalities in the world (or 2nd worst according to some stats).

 

However, this opinion fits in a convenient polar world of only 'right and wrong', it avoids the socio-economic factors where necessity does not fit conveniently within the safety spectrum according to Western Standards. In other threads parents have been criticized for leaving young children at home while they work or do their shopping, in other threads parents are criticized for leaving their children 'up country' in the hands of grandparents who can offer them little beyond loving attention.

 

This is a multifaceted issue where there is no absolute 'right and wrong', rather, there are degrees of risk taking, for any of us who take a child in a car or taxi etc also face a more elevated level of risk here than many of us would in our home countries - the Road Fatality Statistics here in Thailand outline this. We could then expand the issues to other areas of safety and risk when living in Thailand.

 

Ultimately wherever we are there will always be an element of risk, we evaluate this risk and hopefully make the most informed decision we can, but these decisions will never fall within the realms of 'perfect safety', instead they fall within a 'spectrum'. For each of us our risk profile differs and is based on our education and experience. 

 

Threads such as this ultimately help us understand each others varying risk profile to some degree and it can be safely assumed that as peoples needs vary so does the degree to which they are prepared to take risk - hence we have children on motorcycles in some cases out of pure convenience, in other cases because there are few, little or no alternatives.

 

I agree with Happy Grumpy that a parent who has fully evaluated the risks would have to be stupid / idiotic to take a child on a motorcycle when there are alternatives, however, we also have a cultural aspect where in Thailand the motorcycle for many (the majority?) is the sole means of transport for the family. At times a motorcycle is not the sole means of transport and this is where Happy Grumpy suggest the parents are lazy, perhaps they are but they have grown up in a culture where this is the norm, primarily out of convenience for at times a 30 minute trip into town or to school could otherwise take significantly longer and have greater knock on effects to the well being of the family - in short, the risk is some how evaluated even if it is done so subconsciously. 

 

 

 

 

[thaiguzzi]

13 hours ago, Happy Grumpy said:

 

 

Are you actually defending Thai road behavior and safety????

 

Thai roads are the worst in the World if most stats are correct. And people take their kids out on them in scooters??

 

 

 

The kids should be taken off them and given to proper parents. 

Haters gotta hate...

I didn't anywhere defend Thai road behavior nor safety.

However, my statement said many millions daily use a moped/scooter/motorcycle in this country to go to and fro without mishap.

Carry on hating...

[DLang]

14 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

Meanwhile, about 7.5 million Thai people get on with their lives and ride to work, school, home and back, everyday, without incident......

 

And the number turned into 'bolognese sauce' (to use HG's term) every day is number 1 or 2 in the World!

 

Kids included. 

[Jonah Tenner]

21 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

22 hours ago, Happy Grumpy said:

So it's little wonder that idiots choose the lazier, more convenient method. 

 

 

I have to wonder whether you have thought about any of this before commenting. 

 

 

I do not believe that there has been any thinking involved on his part at all.

[Happy Grumpy]

17 hours ago, moe666 said:

You are over your head with that statement,

Nope.

 

Parents that go out onto roads (especially the most dangerous roads in the World) with their children on a scooter are unfit parents, to the degree that the children should be taken off them for their own protection. 

[RC8]

18 hours ago, Happy Grumpy said:

Nope.

 

Parents that go out onto roads (especially the most dangerous roads in the World) with their children on a scooter are unfit parents, to the degree that the children should be taken off them for their own protection. 

Strange that even in the Health and Safety crazy west it is not illegal to carry children on motorcycles. So you want to remove children from parents that have done nothing wrong!

[dfdgfdfdgs]

Credit for being honest at least, would have been better for him to blame a medically-related blackout.

[dfdgfdfdgs]

19 hours ago, Happy Grumpy said:

Parents that go out onto roads (especially the most dangerous roads in the World) with their children on a scooter are unfit parents, to the degree that the children should be taken off them for their own protection. 

 

How are they supposed to get to school?  I suppose you will be funding all the pick up trucks or private taxis for isaan families who currently cannot afford them and have to make do with a motorbike for the daily commutes?  If not then you should get down from your position of privilege.

[Happy Grumpy]

26 minutes ago, dfdgfdfdgs said:

How are they supposed to get to school? 

How did they get there before scooters?

[Happy Grumpy]

39 minutes ago, RC8 said:

Strange that even in the Health and Safety crazy west it is not illegal to carry children on motorcycles. So you want to remove children from parents that have done nothing wrong!

You are holding the West up as some sort Utopian ideal?!?

 

Stop being so arrogant about where you come from. 

[MaxYakov]

I saw a car that was inexplicably stopped in the middle of Sukhumvit Soi 16 with the engine running as it was passing some illegally parked cars in front of FoodLand. The police were called to wake up the driver who had passed out at the wheel. It took quite a while to get him conscious by rocking the vehicle, yelling and pounding on the roof. At least he was virtually stopped when he passed out.

[GarryP]

On 10/4/2017 at 5:44 PM, Happy Grumpy said:

 

You seem to be discussing this one event.

 

Anybody in any country taking their child out on the road on a scooter is lazy and yes, stupid.

 

Westerners doing it in Thailand even more so... they should know better, and they should know just how bad the driving and roads here are. Number one in the World for road deaths, so we are told, hard to believe a few Bongo Bongo nations don't kill more of their own on their roads, but there ya go. 

Can I take my wife on the back of my scooter? Would that be okay with you, or does that make me lazy and stupid too? What about my son who is 28 years old? I bow down before your wondrous intelligence. 

[Happy Grumpy]

Do you have the mental age of a child?

 

The above posts indicates that you possibly do. 

[dfdgfdfdgs]

41 minutes ago, Happy Grumpy said:

How did they get there before scooters?

 

A lot of them didn't go because they had no means to get there?

[MaxYakov]

On 10/4/2017 at 5:40 PM, richard_smith237 said:

 

A motorcycle was impacted by a Vehicle who's driver fell asleep at the wheel... pedestrians and cyclists are equally at risk. 

A large solid vehicle is perhaps one of the limited options which may have saved them, perhaps something not at all available to these poor victims.

 

Additionally, the distances which need to be covered may not be achievable by walking or cycling. 

 

I would also argue that Cycling here is significantly more risky than motorcycling, especially with a Child.

 

I have to wonder whether you have thought about any of this before commenting. 

 

 

In the interests of offering a balanced discussion I do agree that for some taking a Motorcycle 500m down the road with 3 kids on the back is lazy and placing 5 kids on a motorcycle is perhaps stupid, however, this was a mother and child traveling safely on the road and the driver of another vehicle fell asleep and deviated into them killing them. 

 

This is a tragic event, one which could have been avoided through many alternative actions, but to call the majority of a nation stupid or lazy because they ride a motorcycle is perhaps the opinion of someone who refuses to accept the realities of life.....  it is on this point I have a question for you 'HG' - Do you think Motorcyclists in other countries (i.e. UK & US) equally lazy and stupid ? 

"I would also argue that Cycling here is significantly more risky than motorcycling, especially with a Child."

 

You may argue that, but you would lose with me, a 10-year veteran of cycling daily in urban Bangkok. One has to know how to urban cycle safely relative to motorcycling. I've had only one "hard knock, school thereof" while cycling in Bangkok - letting a careless bus driver pass me to have him cut me off between his bus and a carelessly/illegally parked car (I don't let that happen anymore).

 

From a speed standpoint alone, motorcycling is far more dangerous than cycling. Establish and use a lot of tactics and rules that cannot be performed by motorcycle operators and cycling has the potential for being much safer than motorcycling. For example, one can take a foldable bicycle on both BTS and MRT, minimizing road risk whereas this cannot be done with a motorcycle. However, it is the tactics and rules one uses on and off the road that are the most important for relative safe cycling in the inherently dangerous road environment in Thailand.

 

However, take a bicycle out on the roads and try to operate largely as a motorcycle would then all bets are off as to one's longevity.

 

PS: I do not recommend that one rides either a bicycle or a motorcycle or even a Tuk-Tuk in Thailand. One should be extremely careful simply being a pedestrian in Thailand even if one is continuously alert (i.e. not a smartphone zombie) and is neither physically nor psychologically handicapped in any way.

Edited October 6, 2017 by MaxYakov

[GarryP]

26 minutes ago, Happy Grumpy said:

Do you have the mental age of a child?

 

The above posts indicates that you possibly do. 

No, but you obviously have problems with comprehension. Do I need to use an emoji for you to understand when I am being sarcastic. 

[Happy Grumpy]

1 hour ago, GarryP said:

when I am being sarcastic. 

Exactly....

 

You know what's going on when someone is reduced to that.