Hospital reprimanded for advertising surgery for female genital mutilation

[Jai Dee]

A couple of troll comments and a flame post have been removed from this thread.

[DoctorG]

I am feeling we have a "lost in translation" problem here, or just really bad reporting, as is often the case.

[fred110]

5 hours ago, stanleycoin said:

Unbelievable.

Had no idea Thailand was that low,   to be doing this to children or anyone for that matter  

Hope this hits the world news.

Disgraceful practice from the medical profession of  Thailand !!!!!!!!!!!

They will do anything for money. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

It's a Muslim practice, allowed by Thais.

Edited October 9, 2017 by fred110
grammar

[greenchair]

47 minutes ago, neeray said:

What a crock of doodoo. If circumcision reduces the sensitivity, I'm very thankful that I was circumcised (couldn't possibly handle anymore). "Pain and scarring" and "prevents the man from achieving full orgasm" !

Certainly not in my case. But like you say " It often depends on the doctor". Thank goodness, I guess mine was a real pro.

My doctor never "sliced through it", I think he just nipped off a little extra skin (I was too young to know, or care). Thanks Doc, you did a great job.

 

It's not that I am criticising your sad plight that you were mutilated by your parents and refuse to acknowledge that. 

But in fact you were a little baby and would not remember that before the doctor nipped off that little extra skin, he actually sliced down the skin, then sliced his way right around the skin to seperate it from the gland. After that, he is able to pull the skin right up and insert it in the snipper that is held in place until bleeding stops. 

Then he snips that little piece off as you say. 

There are complications when too much or too little is cut. 

Male ego and love of your parents /religion would prevent you from ever being honest about your childhood abuse. So I will respect your fantasy. 

[gbob]

One wonders if something is not lost in translation here.  Has anyone or their Thai-speaking wife/partner/etc. read about this in Thai?  It would be very hard to imagine that what appears to be a high-end plastic surgery-specific hospital like the one reported here would engage in female genital mutilation.  Rather, one thinks they might be performing procedures to REPAIR the effects of previous genital mutilation.  If so, it would be rational to expect that the procedure is not illegal at all, but only the method used by the hospital to advertise it is inappropriate for Thailand.

[sawadeeken]

2 hours ago, greenchair said:

 

Studies from males that have been circumcised at birth say their sexual sensitivity is reduced greatly. Not only that, there is extensive scarring left around the penis that causes pain during sex and prevents the man from achieving full orgasm. It often depends on the doctor. Some cut more than is necessary. Not only that , the poor little baby is awake and does not recieve anasthetic. 

Why don't you try taking a piece of your most sensitive organ and slice through it with a sharp scalpel. Just to see how the baby might feel. 

I was circumcised at birth and have had a great sex life.......... At 77 years old I can still do it (not like I did at 50 however)........... When a Thai bar girl is not available masturbation with thoughts of Thai ladies does the job superbly.......... 

  DON'T BELIEVE THAT THAT STUDY ABOVE THAT YOU READ..... It is mis-informing you.......

"scarring left around the penis that causes pain during sex and prevents the man from achieving full orgasm....... untrue - B_u_ll_sh_it..............

LISTEN TO ME.............. I DON'T REMEMBER A THING ABOUT IT (the cutting)...... I didn't need anesthesia.......

I have had 4 wives.......... so far................ and have craved sex 2 and 3 times every day during my younger days...... and I AM CUT.......

This reply above above is from a man (or lady who don't have a clue as to what they are saying)....... Most likely a man who was not circumcised and has not enjoyed but one woman in his life........ and 'Never' climaxed.................

HOWEVER, It is horrible to do it to girls................ I think it is typically 'muslim' that want to steal the pleasure's of sex from women........ 

IMHO I hate the 'muslim' beliefs.......... and female 'genitalia mutilation' is something that  muslims and a few others would advocate.......

Doing this to girls is like kicking 'soi dogs' mercificiliously................ in other words treating girls as 'Soi Dogs'..........

'Rest in 'Hell' .................. if you agree with them.................

[whaleboneman]

3 hours ago, greenchair said:

 

Many males are actually in pain for life. Often times the scarring is extensive. 

Many males get their foreskins sown back on. The trauma of have part of their body sliced off with a scalpel apparently can effect them for life. 

Really? And where do they find these foreskins?

[RichardColeman]

They wont ban circumcision in Europe as it would upset the Jewish community ! Personally I would imprison anyone for child abuse, whatever their religion, race or creed.

[spectrumisgreen]

3 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

funny, my girlfriend showed me this on Facebook yesterday.

 

the "photo" was a simple line diagram of female sex organs.

 

 

 

Funny? And 'the "photo" was a simple...' .. makes it ok then yeah?

[spectrumisgreen]

11 minutes ago, greenchair said:

 

It's not that I am criticising your sad plight that you were mutilated by your parents and refuse to acknowledge that. 

But in fact you were a little baby and would not remember that before the doctor nipped off that little extra skin, he actually sliced down the skin, then sliced his way right around the skin to seperate it from the gland. After that, he is able to pull the skin right up and insert it in the snipper that is held in place until bleeding stops. 

Then he snips that little piece off as you say. 

There are complications when too much or too little is cut. 

Male ego and love of your parents /religion would prevent you from ever being honest about your childhood abuse. So I will respect your fantasy. 

Why you waffling on (and on!) about YOUR op.. and basically how it can be for other MALES - seems YOUR ego has not been affected!! - when for women, especially little girls, its undeniably so much worse?!!.. This is just a horrible HORRIBLE abuse and any participating greedy-bastard doctors should be hung, drawn, and quartered!!!

[scorecard]

5 hours ago, stanleycoin said:

Unbelievable.

Had no idea Thailand was that low,   to be doing this to children or anyone for that matter  

Hope this hits the world news.

Disgraceful practice from the medical profession of  Thailand !!!!!!!!!!!

They will do anything for money. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

Report says the owners / medical staff from this hospital have been told to report and explain themselves.

 

I hope their comments are published because I want to know why they think it's OK to perform this specific surgery. 

[LannaGuy]

"Not illegal"   this country is living in the Dark Ages.

 

DISGRACEFUL 

 

 

[DLang]

19 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

They wont ban circumcision in Europe as it would upset the Jewish community ! Personally I would imprison anyone for child abuse, whatever their religion, race or creed.

Absolutely.

 

Ban all genital mutilation of children - male and female. 

 

Let both sexes grow up with fully functional, proper genitals.

 

Not some thing that's been sliced n diced. 

 

 

Let both men and women able to enjoy full and proper sex, with clit and clit hod, foreskin included. 

[DLang]

btw, FGM isn't always removal of the clit.

 

Sometimes it is the removal of part of the hood, the same as circumcising a male is.

 

The difference is the clit is the most sensitive part of the female's genitals, this is left intact, the foreskin (the innerbands) is the most sexually sensitive part of the male's genitals.

 

 

Horrid, barbaric act that means they will never be able to enjoy full and proper sexual intercourse. 

[simple1]

31 minutes ago, gbob said:

One wonders if something is not lost in translation here.  Has anyone or their Thai-speaking wife/partner/etc. read about this in Thai?  It would be very hard to imagine that what appears to be a high-end plastic surgery-specific hospital like the one reported here would engage in female genital mutilation.  Rather, one thinks they might be performing procedures to REPAIR the effects of previous genital mutilation.  If so, it would be rational to expect that the procedure is not illegal at all, but only the method used by the hospital to advertise it is inappropriate for Thailand.

It would seem you are correct, the 'hospital' is advertised in English for specialising in plastic surgery corrective procedures. A link to the English language web site for virginal corrective surgery procedures is provided below.

 

http://lelux.co.th/2016/09/vaginal-prolapse-repair-surgery/?lang=en

 

http://lelux.co.th/2016/08/labiaplasty/?lang=en

[Airbagwill]

3 hours ago, alanrchase said:

Wonder how accurate the report is. Checked the hospital's website and they are a plastic surgery outfit. They do perform labiaplasty which is not considered FGM. 

It really depends on how its done - if they can do one, yey can do the other.

[Airbagwill]

2 minutes ago, simple1 said:

It would seem you are correct, the 'hospital' is advertised in English for specialising in plastic surgery corrective procedures. A link to the English language web site for virginal corrective surgery procedures is provided below.

 

http://lelux.co.th/2016/09/vaginal-prolapse-repair-surgery/?lang=en

 

http://lelux.co.th/2016/08/labiaplasty/?lang=en

if they can repair, there's nothing to stop them mutilating either....if asked Thai healthcare will do whatever you want...if you have the money....ethics don't enter into it.

[DavisH]

I would bet this is about labia modification (common in the West, now) and not female circumcision (removal of the clitoris).  

[simple1]

9 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

if they can repair, there's nothing to stop them mutilating either....if asked Thai healthcare will do whatever you want...if you have the money....ethics don't enter into it.

You're welcome to your opinion, but personally I do not believe you. If the article was talking to practices by midwife's in the deep South, a different story. Let's wait and see if there is a correction to the reporting. 

 

BTW FGM is not solely a Muslim cultural practice, also a cultural norm in parts of Christian Africa.

Edited October 9, 2017 by simple1

[geriatrickid]

4 hours ago, Happy Grumpy said:

 

Agree.

 

Ban all FGM and circumcision of males without their consent or medical problem.

 

Both are human rights abuses of the highest order. 

Male circumcision  is not in any way similar to  female genitalia removal. Keep your bias and prejudice to yourself.

The female procedure is invasive has no proven health benefit. It is intended to control women's sexual activity.

The male procedure is minor and has a proven health benefit. (E.g. There is compelling evidence that male circumcision reduces the risk of heterosexually acquired HIV infection in men by approximately 60%.Current position of WHO.) There is no impact upon the sexual activity of the male.

 

The female procedure can involve the partial or total removal of the clitoris and the the labia minora.  These are large integral portions of flesh. The male procedure ranges from a partial slit of the prepuce to the partial removal of the prepuce, to the complete removal of prepuce and cutting back of the frenulum. The male sexual anatomy is unharmed because the glans penis is left intact. The tired myth that sexual sensation is  damaged by the procedure has never ever been supported by a legitimate clinical study, whereas, all clinical studies to date indicate that nerve sensation to tactile and temperature stimulation is no different between  circumcised and uncircumcised males.  

The clitoris and labia minora are an integral part of the anatomy.  A 2cm portion of extraneous flesh is as useful as wisdom teeth, an extra digit, or an appendix. The health literature demonstrates that uncircumcised western males have a higher incidence of acquiring sexually transmitted infections, including HIV, genital herpes, human papillomavirus (warts) and syphilis, than circumcised males. The female procedure does not demonstrate any benefit.

 

The issue here is an invasive procedure who's sole purpose is to control a woman and to rob her of sexual pleasure. The hospitals which promote and encourage the procedure cater  to a specific religious group and are motivated in large part by  money. They have zero integrity and no ethics.

 

 

 

 

[248900_1469958220]

So its more likey 'cosmetic' surgery which women in the west have been doing for years from porn stars wanting the 'perfect' looking snatch to possibly 'corrective' procedures. However, if they are removing a girls clitoris for religious/cultural bullsh*t  reasons...throw the book at em!!

[KKr]

Circumcision is supposed to only remove part of the skin than would otherwise fold over and, especially in hot climates, be a great breeding ground for bacteria, fungi, and microbes.
Got nothing to do with sensitivity during intercourse, as those nerves do not end in the foreskin.
However, if the procedure is performed by a village quak, using rings or other unhygienic methods, and not having the experience to assess how much to cut away, indeed some problems will occur.

As a side note, in other posts there were some comments on religion and circumcision. 
As far as I understand the history, I believe many young men living in hot climates were circumcised during many centuries before the (younger of the) implied belief was founded. Be it after birth, or as an initiation rite upon reaching manhood. 

Concerning female genital mutilation: too crazy for words and only exists to make men feel superior.

[KKr]

29 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

if they can repair, there's nothing to stop them mutilating either....if asked Thai healthcare will do whatever you want...if you have the money....ethics don't enter into it.

There is a distinct difference though between the first example, what is a medical condition, and the second example what can be a medical condition or a desired cosmetic correction.

Post Natal Removal of certain body parts, as someone explained to me :"otherwise the girls get naughty" is neither of the above, and has more similarities with parental abuse, and Doctors' (if not a Quak that is) malpractice.

 

[F4UCorsair]

4 hours ago, greenchair said:

 

Studies from males that have been circumcised at birth say their sexual sensitivity is reduced greatly. Not only that, there is extensive scarring left around the penis that causes pain during sex and prevents the man from achieving full orgasm. It often depends on the doctor. Some cut more than is necessary. Not only that , the poor little baby is awake and does not recieve anasthetic. 

Why don't you try taking a piece of your most sensitive organ and slice through it with a sharp scalpel. Just to see how the baby might feel. 

 

greenchair, one knows right off that what you've said is untrue.

 

You say, "Studies from males that have been circumcised at birth say their sexual sensitivity is reduced greatly.".

 

Compared with BEFORE they were circumcised AT BIRTH??    How would they know?  Were they having sex at birth to be able to compare the level of sensitivity with post circumcision??

 

Be serious please.

 

I recall having mine done, but I was about 4, and there was almost no pain, and it was done with scissors!!!  

 

I have a friend who has a Prince Albert, and when I asked him about the level of pain in having a taper stuck through his penis, he said almost no pain, even though it's a very sensitive area.   He asked me to compare pinching my ear lobe with pinching my foreskin, and pinching my ear is seriously more painful.  I did the pinching discreetly!

 

 

Edited October 9, 2017 by F4UCorsair

[BKKBike09]

2 hours ago, DoctorG said:

I am feeling we have a "lost in translation" problem here, or just really bad reporting, as is often the case.

 

Yep. It's got nothing to do with FGM. It's all about injecting body fat into labia to create a '3-D pussy' (the literal translation of the Thai for the desired outcome of the procedure). Hence the photo of syringes full of crud. It is misplaced if not defamatory to castigate the establishment in question for FGM. I'd post a link in Thai to one of the news stories out there, but it might be removed by a mod. Just Google the start of the headline and it will bring up the story:

 

สบส.ยันภาพโฆษณา "จิ๋ม 3 มิติ" ขัดศีลธรรม

[Dustdevil]

"Against public morals??" Good God--Hippocratic Oath, anyone? "DO NO HARM." This is incredibly appalling. Update: OK, I only read the headline and overreacted. So it's some kind of labial enhancement? First I've heard of it.

Edited October 9, 2017 by Dustdevil

[Dustdevil]

10 minutes ago, F4UCorsair said:

 

greenchair, one knows right off that what you've said is untrue.

 

You say, "Studies from males that have been circumcised at birth say their sexual sensitivity is reduced greatly.".

 

Compared with BEFORE they were circumcised AT BIRTH??    How would they know?  Were they having sex at birth to be able to compare the level of sensitivity with post circumcision??

 

Be serious please.

 

I recall having mine done, but I was about 4, and there was almost no pain, and it was done with scissors!!!  

 

I have a friend who has a Prince Albert, and when I asked him about the level of pain in having a taper stuck through his penis, he said almost no pain, even though it's a very sensitive area.   He asked me to compare pinching my ear lobe with pinching my foreskin, and pinching my ear is seriously more painful.  I did the pinching discreetly!

 

 

I have dated (and was married to) only Asian females since 1981. They prefer circumcised. Some have even asked me beforehand if I was. Obviously "yes" was the correct answer. Considered cleaner and more attractive. Many modern Asian women like to look, just as we men like to look at attractive female bodies.

[ilostmypassword]

1 hour ago, RichardColeman said:

They wont ban circumcision in Europe as it would upset the Jewish community ! Personally I would imprison anyone for child abuse, whatever their religion, race or creed.

Actually, health care workers in Africa are promoting male circumcision as a very effective way to cut down on tramsmission of HIV . It also cuts down on Transmission of herpes infections which in women leads to cervical cancer.

[atyclb]

6 hours ago, Happy Grumpy said:

Agree.

 

The same for those committing male circumcision on those without their consent - ie, infant boy.

 

All circumcision is cruel for life.

 

Barbaric procedures when done without there being any medical problem that requires it.

Circumcision

 

 

• A decreased risk of urinary tract infections.
• A reduced risk of some sexually transmitted diseases in men.
• Protection against penile cancer and a reduced risk of cervical cancer in female sex partners.
• Prevention of balanitis (inflammation of the glans) and balanoposthitis (inflammation of the glans and foreskin).
• Prevention of phimosis (the inability to retract the foreskin) and paraphimosis (the inability to return the foreskin to its original location).

[AGareth2]

6 hours ago, Boon Mee said:

Can't believe that Thailand allows this to go on?

they make a profit!

serve those countries where it is banned

medical tourism