Thai Thai marriage and sin sot

[Kenny202]

When I first came to LOS I thought Sin Sot was an old tradition no longer done but used to dupe unwary farang. Since arriving 5 years ago I've been to more Thai / Thai weddings here than I care to remember and in all cases sin sot is paid (or at least displayed). In most cases the girl was far from the pick of the litter. Poor family no chance of inheriting big land etc, only possibly alcoholic and needy in laws. I've seen Thai blokes shelling out anything upwards of 250k THB. Latest wedding I went to on the weekend, the guy is middle class but not rich...paid 1 million baht. His new wife has been married before, no kids. (I was under the understanding a previous marriage or kids automatically negates Sin sot). She is going to live with him for 2 weeks and then return to her job and live with her family, where it would appear most of them would prefer to be anyway. He will return to his province about 800km away. The whole time I was at this particular wedding the couples didn't hardly speak...had their faces in their smart phones (probably messaging with another) and it appeared the wife looked on at her husband as no more than an annoyance she had to temporarily endure.

 

3 of the other married couples attending the wedding were also living apart and seperate lives. 2 of the other girls that were at the wedding were previously in a long distance marriage and surprise surprise....husband left to his own devices found another lady and left them single mummies.

 

I don't understand the whole concept? Can someone shed some insight?

 

For a start I don't see what the bloke gets out of the deal?....particularly living long distance. Certainly not a housekeeper or cook. 

 

So the bloke shells out a fortune, at least in Thailand.... for sin sot. Maybe its just a village wedding so no 50 / 50 split marital laws.

Whats to stop the girl running away with the money or calling it off after 6 months. Are there any laws governing this?

 

 

 

 

[Pilotman]

I can only pass on the experience of our Thai family.  The family have recently, in the last 4 years, married off 5 nieces.  All from the village in Issan, all to Thai lads of similar age or slightly older, none of them professionals, but all with jobs and hard working.  Sin Sot in all cases was around 100K with 1 Bhat of gold each for Mum and Dad.  It is understood in all cases that this will be paid over time and not in one lump. All are living together with one or other of the families, bar one, who is working in Taiwan on contract and one  who is doing  his military service.  I haven't seen or heard of any of the examples you site, but I'm sure that it happens, especially if the girl is pregnant or  very young  The only odd thing that I have seen on our family, is that none of the marriages have yet been registered at the Amphur, so no certificates. 

[Kenny202]

6 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

I can only pass on the experience of our Thai family.  The family have recently, in the last 4 years, married off 5 nieces.  All from the village in Issan, all to Thai lads of similar age or slightly older, none of them professionals, but all with jobs and hard working.  Sin Sot in all cases was around 100K with 1 Bhat of gold each for Mum and Dad.  It is understood in all cases that this will be paid over time and not in one lump. All are living together with one or other of the families, bar one, who is working in Taiwan on contract and one  who is doing  his military service.  I haven't seen or heard of any of the examples you site, but I'm sure that it happens, especially if the girl is pregnant or  very young  The only odd thing that I have seen on our family, is that none of the marriages have yet been registered at the Amphur, so no certificates. 

Very few village marriages are registered in my experience. Possibly because neither has any assets and I doubt village Thai guys would be forward thinking enough to see the value in 1000 baht registration fee (or whatever it is) to insure they at least get some of their investment back

[catman20]

to take on one of these Thais thed have to PAY me.

[Boon Mee]

Just pay the sin sot. 

Roll with it. It's a Thai cultural thing. 

You ain't in Kansas now, Toto.. 

[Rayinbkk]

It is not only 'village Thai' who often do not register their marriages. Many middle class urban Thai do not either. It is not because they have no assets but, in some cases at least, because they have very significant assets coming their way and want to maintain individual control over them.

[Pilotman]

9 minutes ago, Boon Mee said:

Just pay the sin sot. 

Roll with it. It's a Thai cultural thing. 

You ain't in Kansas now, Toto.. 

I remember well the sin sot debate with my Father in Law many moons ago.  My wife interpreted at first, but to maintain the integrity of the process we had another lady who was also interpreting.  It was done on the patio with a litre bottle of Scotland's finest Malt. I started out jokingly by saying  that she wasn't worth much more than 10 Bhat. She went off in a huff and he roared with laughter. After an hour we were both totally pissed and agreed an amount that seemed to satisfy everyone, including my future bride.  It was great fun.  I agree that the OP should just roll with it. 

 

 

[mstevens]

There are as many arguments for sin sot as there are against it and the whole concept is polarising.  I'd simply say that if you're getting married in Thailand and are genuinely happy to pay sin sot then pay it.  And if you're totally against it, then don't pay it (or don't marry that particular lady as the case may be).  We all accept different things in relationships and I think sin sot is one of those many things in a relationship that some people are ok with while others are not.

[hawker9000]

14 minutes ago, mstevens said:

There are as many arguments for sin sot as there are against it and the whole concept is polarising.  I'd simply say that if you're getting married in Thailand and are genuinely happy to pay sin sot then pay it.  And if you're totally against it, then don't pay it (or don't marry that particular lady as the case may be).  We all accept different things in relationships and I think sin sot is one of those many things in a relationship that some people are ok with while others are not.

Well said.  For me, if there were going to be no marriage unless I paid the sin sot, unless it were a matter of an insignificant token, I'd lose interest in the lady then & there.  There'd be absolutely no need for argument.  But it's strictly an up-to-you thing.  There are so many cultural issues & differences to be aware of, deal with, and plan for; this is just one.  So if it IS a problem for you, you probably haven't been digging as deeply as you need to into what marriage to a Thai actually holds in store...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[samsensam]

 

i think there a just some lonely people out there. paying someone to be their gf/wife gives them a feeling of higher self esteem and self worth, and prevents loneliness, for them it's a price worth paying. as other say; up to them.

 

thank goodness i'm equally happy with my own company or with someone so anyone attempting to manipulate me into paying them for their affection will come up short. i've had some amazing relationships in thailand and none of them involved 'payment'.

 

i rarely date people who have had previous foreign bfs - and yes, it is easy to tell.

 

interestingly some of my ex's have gone on to get into relationships and marriages with foreign guys and sometimes squeezed huge sums of money out of them (when they were with me money was never an issue). one girl married and got 2.4 million baht sin sot, explaining to me the guy should have paid 300,000 max. all her family look on him as stupid and a sucker, he is oblivious. i guess the situation massages his ego and the family gets loads of cash so in a way its a win/win.

[LotusBoy]

1 hour ago, Boon Mee said:

Just pay the sin sot. 

Roll with it. It's a Thai cultural thing. 

You ain't in Kansas now, Toto.. 

Load of tosh.

[Peterw42]

Sin Sot, the last big bar fine.

 

I think its more for show nowadays and the money gets given back or given to the daughter as an asset/security.

 

 

 

 

[MaeJoMTB]

On 10/10/2017 at 8:53 AM, Pilotman said:

The only odd thing that I have seen on our family, is that none of the marriages have yet been registered at the Amphur, so no certificates. 

There is no certificate because they're not married.

 

I was married at the Amphur office without any farcical religious ceremony.

It still cost me 100k, but I paid that after 2 months unlimited use of the product.

Edited October 13, 2017 by MaeJoMTB

[1FinickyOne]

On October 10, 2560 BE at 8:37 AM, Kenny202 said:

For a start I don't see what the bloke gets out of the deal?....particularly living long distance. Certainly not a housekeeper or cook.

He gets a wife & family, if things go well. As things go in life, this is a matter of his choice. Yes, I have heard guys tell me that they went out with a girl a couple of times and she said she will marry him for $1MM Sin sod... and in such a case, I would expect that it just sounds like a large barfine and not much more. 

 

I am glad you point out that it is a Thai/Thai custom as well. Too many farang think it is a Thai cheat farang made up thing. 

 

Think of it as a gift to the parents for raising a daughter so lovely that you would want to marry her. Daughters are very helpful to families and in many cases, you are taking her away.

 

ps - Interesting part of the original custom was that each party appoints a friend to negotiate the sin sod so there is no tension created in what will soon be family members.

 

pps - A few times, I have seen farang go around bragging about not paying sin sod - and shortly after, the family manages to find a way to cheat them out of money. What the farang fails to realize is that the family feels they were cheated first. 

[Pilotman]

20 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

There is no certificate because they're not married.

 

I was married at the Amphur office without any farcical religious ceremony.

It still cost me 100k, but I paid that after 2 months unlimited use of the product.

a very old fashioned out of date  Western view of what 'marriage' is if I may say so. Since the advent of many different kinds of close long lasting relationships, not least among the  GBLT community, 'marriage' is what you want it to be  and mean.  Of course they are married!   

[Pilotman]

Now here is a view that will have some  on this forum post spitting feathers.  I have told my  19 year old Thai/Brit daughter that if she marries a Thai chap, I will insist on Sin  Sot.  I have even threatened to invoke it if she wants to marry a western chap!!  Being a  loving and devoted daughter, brought up  Thai as much as  British,  she  is convinced that I am serious and has accepted that view.  I am not sure whethert I am or not.  We will see, but my Thai wife is deadly serious about it!!  

[hanssna]

I didn't mind paying sin sod, father in law never asked for anything (we were 4 years together before I proposed ). So I offered a 100 k and made the family happy ( and showed off a few baht of gold, which we had already and still have now, 6 years later ).

What I got back was a great party with (some of mine) and her big family in the village. Lots of food frenzy,  my friends eating and boozing, drinks, music speakers, all the family helping, cooking, partying...

After a few hours sleep we had a beautiful ceremony in the house, traditional styl, costumes all taken care if for me.  A nap in the afternoon, and in the evening I decided to arrange a podium with a band and some more drinks for the village for about 20k  (with didn't cost me anything since we got all the gifts in the morning back).

Had another great and drunken night,  with my friends still there, and in the morning everyone helped out breaking down the setup, washing and cleaning while I was hungover. 

Still have respect from the family and the esan village (when I visit there since we live in the south) ... If I would have done this in Holland, the cost for an event like this would have been at least 5x more than this. 

Never regretted a second of this way of sin sod, and my wife and me are still happily married. 

[Kenny202]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

Sin Sot, the last big bar fine.

 

I think its more for show nowadays and the money gets given back or given to the daughter as an asset/security.

 

 

 

 

The last big bar fine. How true hahahaha

 

[hanssna]

4 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

The last big bar fine. How true hahahaha

Not for everyone...  some wives come without a barfine. 

[ThaiWai]

Pimping is illegal in Thailand but selling your daughter is not?  Pick up the tab for the wedding. That's it. 

[aboctok]

1 hour ago, kenk24 said:

He gets a wife & family, if things go well. As things go in life, this is a matter of his choice. Yes, I have heard guys tell me that they went out with a girl a couple of times and she said she will marry him for $1MM Sin sod... and in such a case, I would expect that it just sounds like a large barfine and not much more. 

 

I am glad you point out that it is a Thai/Thai custom as well. Too many farang think it is a Thai cheat farang made up thing. 

 

Think of it as a gift to the parents for raising a daughter so lovely that you would want to marry her. Daughters are very helpful to families and in many cases, you are taking her away.

 

ps - Interesting part of the original custom was that each party appoints a friend to negotiate the sin sod so there is no tension created in what will soon be family members.

 

pps - A few times, I have seen farang go around bragging about not paying sin sod - and shortly after, the family manages to find a way to cheat them out of money. What the farang fails to realize is that the family feels they were cheated first. 

Sizeable assets that are firmly expected are not gifts.

[1FinickyOne]

1 minute ago, aboctok said:

Sizeable assets that are firmly expected are not gifts.

Everyone looks at life differently... I saw it as a gift and gave it gladly... and not sure it was either sizable or firmly expected... sizable implies it is too much for a person's budget, which is not the way it should be.. mine was an agreed amount, well within my means and given happily. I knew my wife and her family for 2 years at that point and knew they were really nice people. 

 

Sometimes people only see what goes out, not what comes in... for us, the wedding party was only 20k as my wife and her large family did all the food preparation saving a fortune in having a catered affair... and this consideration is typical of the consideration that has come down through my family over many years... 

[JGV]

It is a relic of old It's just that so many live in the past here Stay single Avoid the custom

[1FinickyOne]

4 minutes ago, JGV said:

It is a relic of old It's just that so many live in the past here Stay single Avoid the custom

If it bothers you that much, that is a great suggestion...

 

As to relics, is it any crazier than the customs in the west? These stupid lavish weddings, where young ladies have to spend big money for ugly dresses that match the tablecloth, guys have to rent tuxedos, between flowers and everything else, 5 course meals with champagne fountains, all of which put the cost of sin sod into the category of being a minor expense... 

 

Actually, giving some money to my wife's poor family out of respect for them and the tradition, was a pittance in comparison.

 

And I wonder how many would find the custom offensive if they were getting sin sod from the bride's family... 

[atyclb]

3 hours ago, catman20 said:

to take on one of these Thais thed have to PAY me.

 

 

sooo true. of course there are limited exceptions and imo some would be considered desirable but those are few and far between

 

seems the formula in many cases for sin saut is  related to how lonely and hard up the farang may be.

 

in the vast majority even if they paid me i would not be interested.   to each their own

[Tony125]

1 hour ago, kenk24 said:

If it bothers you that much, that is a great suggestion...

 

As to relics, is it any crazier than the customs in the west? These stupid lavish weddings, where young ladies have to spend big money for ugly dresses that match the tablecloth, guys have to rent tuxedos, between flowers and everything else, 5 course meals with champagne fountains, all of which put the cost of sin sod into the category of being a minor expense... 

 

Actually, giving some money to my wife's poor family out of respect for them and the tradition, was a pittance in comparison.

 

And I wonder how many would find the custom offensive if they were getting sin sod from the bride's family... 

So true my daughter wanted and got  2 ice swans for the champagne fountains, total cost of wedding $16,000   Plus in USA no need for sin sod or as we used to say dowery because when things go south the woman will take the guy for just about everything he has in the divorce .

[MaeJoMTB]

3 hours ago, Pilotman said:

a very old fashioned out of date  Western view of what 'marriage' is if I may say so. Since the advent of many different kinds of close long lasting relationships, not least among the  GBLT community, 'marriage' is what you want it to be  and mean.  Of course they are married!   

Try applying for a marriage VISA and see what the Thai authorities think?

[MaeJoMTB]

3 hours ago, Pilotman said:

Now here is a view that will have some  on this forum post spitting feathers.  I have told my  19 year old Thai/Brit daughter that if she marries a Thai chap, I will insist on Sin  Sot.  I have even threatened to invoke it if she wants to marry a western chap!!  Being a  loving and devoted daughter, brought up  Thai as much as  British,  she  is convinced that I am serious and has accepted that view.  I am not sure whethert I am or not.  We will see, but my Thai wife is deadly serious about it!!  

Don't forget, double pricing for Thais!

[goonnerone]

7 hours ago, catman20 said:

to take on one of these Thais thed have to PAY me.

I have been with my Thai partner for 11 years never got married and would never pay a penny or Bhatt of sin sod if she wants to

[catman20]

14 hours ago, goonnerone said:

I have been with my Thai partner for 11 years never got married and would never pay a penny or Bhatt of sin sod if she wants to

proper man , i like your style.