It's 'farang' Not 'falang'!

[Maizefarmer]

Seems many of TV members have live-in Issan GFs - judging by the large number of posts mentioning 'falang'.

Whilst this might be how Issan girls say the word in Issan/Lao, it's not a correct transliteration of the Thai word ฝรั่ง. It's pronounced 'farang' because that's a ror reua in the middle (basically a letter R). (If it were 'falang' then it would be spelt ฝลั่ง

This is not a post about Thai language. It's just a rant about people using the wrong English spelling because they can't read Thai !

Rant over....

Simon

They say and write falang because thats how they hear most Thai's say it, because as you I'm sure must know, most Thai's pronounce r's as l's

[AnotherATM]

But before I go...<br />

When i first arrived here a few years ago i asked a friend who has lived here for years why Thais didn't pronounce their r's and he said "Because they're LAZY "

I believe him now

I Remember trying to catch a bus from near the Border Of Lao many moons ago when I was a newbie. The Woman said the next bus was going to Chaing Li. I looked it up in the lonely planet. Couldnt find it anywhere. I asked her again. She just sort of scowled and siad "Chaing Li,next bus Chaing Li" Quick look through the index and thought she might be mistaken with Chiang Rai? I asked her this and I think she got a little bit miffed. I wasnt taken the pish, but she thought I was. I settled for the next bus to Chaing Mai. No misunderstanding there.

I had a lengthy, though not heated, argument with a Thai teenager on Koh Samed a while back who would not accept that it isn't pronounced, Chiang 'Li' in it's propper form; niether had she ever been taught at school the correct way to pronounce the equivalent to 'r' in the Thai language.

I guess it's lucky for her that so few people pronounce it correctly.

<b>A related story (100% true):</b>

Shortly after we set up home together I introduced my partner to one of my favourite films, Braveheart, and we watched it a few times before returning the DVD. She, of course, loved the movie and talked a lot about Williams Wallace for the week or so that followed.

A short time later, as we were preparing to go into town one day, she turned to me and said, "Don't forget William". This confused the hel_l out of me while I wracked my brains trying to figure out who/what she could be referring to. "Who's William?" I eventually asked her. She thought about it for a second or two before a wide grin came to her face and she said, Solly, I not mean William, I mean Wallet". :D

Edited March 22, 2008 by AnotherATM

[AnotherATM]

falang or farang

the abreviation is still

ATM

[jukapot]

Sorry Jukapot but your history is very suspect. People in Isaan do not speak Lao, they speak a dialect of Thai which is closer to Lao than central Thai, perhaps with the exception of some villages right on the border. Furthermore some parts in South Isaan speak dialects closer to Khmer. Wherever you are people do not greet each other by "sabai dee" for example, and they use particles such as "khrub, Kha".

Another point that you make that is wrong is claiming Isaan people are actually Laotians who were displaced by ethnic Thais What is an ethnic Thai? Central Siamese Thais, Lao, Issan....they all come from the same ethnic group, they are all Thai. Moreover the people of Isaan have been of the Thai Lao subset all through history since the fall of Angkor, they were not displaced by anyone. It is true that Lao and Isaan are occupied by people who ethnically are more similar than people other parts of Thailand, this is because these people have only been split up by international borders during modern times and over time the people of Isaan have been in contact with more people of other ethnic sub sets compared to Laoations who still have a country made up of mostly ethnic Lao.

madjbs

If you are happy with your explanations, why should I try to convince you otherwise.

The Lao / Issan are my favorite people and different from the Thai in so many ways. Last year my son was in Nongkhai, and called me to say how excited he was about his tour of Laos and his visit to my wife's village outside Nongkhai. I told him I was glad that he had a chance to see Laos and be proud of his Lao Heritage because his mother is Issan and ethnically Lao. When I visited my wife's village 35 + years ago it was so like many Lao villages I had visited. The food was Lao, the dress Lao, songs Lao, customs Lao, even the language Lao. etc.etc.. It could be that over the years this distinction is no longer obvious. Maybe the Issan are becoming more thai. For those falan living in thailand who never lived in Laos, I can understand the confusion.

There has always been a difference of opinion about the Lao Language.. I remember years ago at Vientiane's bowling alley I wrote my name in Lao. My partner, a Lao official said I wrote in Thai. A strange discussion started with the Lao insisting I wrote and spoke Thai. Earlier I wrote how my nephew was quick to point out that he was not speaking Lao but Issan. So what difference does it reallly make? :D

The Lao tell the story how their army always beat the Thai. The Thai sent spy to vientiane to find out why the Lao could not be beat. They discovered the Lao secret - they had a dragon on their side. The Thai learned where the dragon slept and one night placed a stupa over the dragon hole - trapping the dragon inside. Without the dragon the Lao were defeated and the population of Vientiane was relocated into Thailand. This stupa is located down the street from the US Embassy!!!

Aside from a few Lao, I am the only who believes this story - almost. Of course this story is just folklore, but the the act remains that the thai did defeat the Lao and resettled the population of Vientiane into Thailand. These people are known as Issan. Obviously not all Issan are ethnic Lao.

Sorry if I get carried away with my postings, but I am becoming excited about my upcoming return to thailand and Laos after a 35 year absence.

Hope to see more of your postings.

[madjbs]

I'm not sure if you are for real or not

If you are for real can you let me know what your on because I want some.

Thanks

[JetsetBkk]

I thought my post had died a death a long time ago

Some interesting posts here, but some many off-topic. My moan was about westerners mispronouncing the Thai word 'farang'. (I'm not going to write in Thai since this isn't a linguistic discussion...). Yes, the word is pronounced differently in Issan/Lao. Maybe so many westerners mispronounce it because they have Issan girlfriends/wives??

Simon

My Cambodian g/f can roll her r's for as long as she has breath, and often does so to take the p*ss out of me because I can't.

Then she goes and spoils it all by saying "schoon" instead of "school".

[qwertz]

Is it so important.

The meaning is clear, however it's pronounced.

You are it.

[AnotherATM]

I think we're straying from Simon's original point regarding how farang posters SPELL the word, rather than how the population of Thailand pronounce it.

I'm of the mind that he was joking with his assertions about it being an Isaan characteristic.

[hanibal7]

NEVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

I suppose you are going to say that tilac is tirak now.

THANK YOU FOR TELLING ME THAT HEHEHEHEH.

[BigSnake]

Farang, falang what ever we are visitors in LOS

[medegen]

I don't care how they say certain words, just as long as they get their work done around my house and I'll be happy! Yes, I'm from Bangkok.

[AnotherATM]

Farang, falang what ever we are visitors in LOS

Only inasmuch as we are visitors on this planet.

Apart from that, I'm in THAILAND to stay.

(and that's 'whatever' not 'what ever')

Edited March 23, 2008 by AnotherATM

[jdinasia]

Farang, falang what ever we are visitors in LOS

Only inasmuch as we are visitors on this planet.

Apart from that, I'm in THAILAND to stay.

(and that's 'whatever' not 'what ever')

Congrats on your residency or citizenship (whichever it is you have!)

[monkeyclub]

I'm not from France

[Johpa]

Sorry Jukapot but your history is very suspect. People in Isaan do not speak Lao, they speak a dialect of Thai which is closer to Lao than central Thai, perhaps with the exception of some villages right on the border. Furthermore some parts in South Isaan speak dialects closer to Khmer. Wherever you are people do not greet each other by "sabai dee" for example, and they use particles such as "khrub, Kha".

You all need to bring some of these questions over to the Thai language forum where there is less linguistic ignorance. In short, Lao is one of many languages within the Tai language family, which includes Central Thai, Lao-Isaan, Kham Muang, Southern Thai,and Shan amongst others. The only argument for dialects might be between speakers in Isaan and speakers in Muang Lao. Then again, it is often said that a language is a dialect with an army behind it. There is no "dialect" closer to Khmer as Khmer is not remotely related to Tai languages apart from a large host of words borrowed into Central Thai and especially into the Royal vocabulary, raatchasaap. There is a very large irredentist population of Khmers in parts of Isaan so it is common to meet people whose mother tongue is Khmer and whose native tongue is a Tai language, and they will often, amongst themselves, mix vocabulary and phrases for emphasis or humor.

I think most Isaan folks see themselves as ethnically Lao and politically Thai as Muang Lao remains a basket case with nothing politically attractive for Isaan folks. From a cultural perspective, the Thai palace is currently infinitely more attractive than the Lao politburo. Although I think most Isaan folks are very sensitive to the discrimination against them in Bangkok and woe to those in the future who would take the current allegiance for granted.

There are more sounds in Thai than we have similar letters in English so we are always going to have to make do with something, better to just learn to read Thai.

There are more sounds in English then there are letters in the Roman alphabet as well. All written alphabets and syllabaries capture a specific dialect of a specific language at a specific place and time and then the language itself goes along its merry way slowly changing here and there until the writing system itself become an obsolete and somewhat awkward fossil.

[madjbs]

Yes Khmer is a completely different language but that doesn't mean that there can't be local dialects spoken in Isaan near the Cambodian border that have allot more in common with Khmer than other Isaan dialects have. Also in allot of south Isaan people still have quite a bit of Khmer blood in them which you can see from the distinctive looks. Obviously it is all a bit of a mish mash these days though.

[Pepe']

IT'S FALANG!!! ASK ANY THAI

[SebD]

Simon

My Cambodian g/f can roll her r's for as long as she has breath, and often does so to take the p*ss out of me because I can't.

Then she goes and spoils it all by saying "schoon" instead of "school".

Or in my lady's case, "Bridge" instead of "Beach" (and that's inserting the dreaded 'R' where one never even existed) It was also very confusing when we'd agreed to meet later on the bridge in Pataya and I spent an age seeking out said bridge!

To get back on topic, I sometimes write farang and sometimes falang and I sometimes say farang and at others falang.

Likewise wiv tirak/tilak (or even teerac/teelac or any delivitive/derivative).

[Dupont]

The r sound does not exist in Thai.

ror rhea is a rolled tongue vibration and the front teeth never touch and scrape the botton lip. It is therefore not an r!

One of the things you find when you pronounce Thai words correctly is that your faรang mates dont understand you but your thai friends and partners do!

Its not an r.... IMHO!