SURVEY: Brexit -- Good or Bad Idea?

[Grouse]

1 minute ago, marginline said:

...and I agree with your summation too Sir. But how, in all practicality, can we or could we have ever got/get 100% electorate participation?

Unless you have a definitive answer, surely we have to work with the democratic 'tools at hand' don't we?

I've just told you!

 

You don't need 100% turnout; you just need a majority of the electorate to force through major change.

[Kieran00001]

Since the referendum some half a million old people have died and half a million young people have reached the eligible age to vote, considering the demographics of leave votes were heavily swayed to the old whereas the young voted at a much higher percentage to remain, if there was another vote today what would be the chance that it would not be to remain?  Approximately none?

[shackleton]

I was a remainer you can see the pound now dropping worse when we are eventually out if ever 

i can imagine workers at companies  like Rolls Royce , Airbus  Wing Makers and BAE   Systems to name a few must be worried about their futures 

the current government are clueless  about a exit strategy  

interesting times ahead 

[Jip99]

1 minute ago, Kieran00001 said:

Since the referendum some half a million old people have died and half a million young people have reached the eligible age to vote, considering the demographics of leave votes were heavily swayed to the old whereas the young voted at a much higher percentage to remain, if there was another vote today what would be the chance that it would not be to remain?  Approximately none?

 

 

But there won’t be another vote.... so don’t fret.

[Surasak]

54 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

These are the rounded figures, some in % terms. The total electoral role: 46,500,000. 

Total turnout 33,500,000 (72%)

 

Leavers          17,400,000 (37%)

Remainers     16,100,000 (35%)

Non-voters     13,000,000 (28%)

 

Total                46,500,000 (100%)

 

IMO, 37% of the total electoral role is not a majority or a blueprint for the Government to announce it is the 'will of the people' that we must enforce Brexit, because that is statistically incorrect. It is the will of those that voted to leave, but not the majority of the electorate. 

Sorry to say, but that is the British electoral system. Rightly or wrongly the result stands.

[stephenterry]

3 minutes ago, marginline said:

...and I agree with your summation too Sir. But how, in all practicality, can we or could we have ever got/get 100% electorate participation?

Unless you have a definitive answer, surely we have to work with the democratic 'tools at hand' don't we?

You cannot, of course. My viewpoint is one of factual inaccuracy used by May i.e. the 'will of the people', when it's the will of 37% of the electorate. That's 'cherry-picking', IMO, to force through a Tory political agenda.

 

I'm absolutely convinced that May would have used the same terminology had anything gone wrong for the government (as it has done) on the lines that (don't blame us for a no deal scenario) we did our best to ensure the will of the people was enforced. She has amended that quote to - providing the best deal for Britain - which looks less likely every passing day.

 

And it's nothing to do with democracy - it's to do with keeping the Tories in power. If the government really wants a Brexit scenario to be successful it must revoke Article 50 (on the understanding that the International Court of Justice agrees it's legally viable). That would give enough breathing space to really plan it properly without having a deadline imposed.

[stephenterry]

Just now, Surasak said:

Sorry to say, but that is the British electoral system. Rightly or wrongly the result stands.

You miss my point. It's not the will of the people. It's the will of 37% of the people.

[Kieran00001]

29 minutes ago, David in the north said:

In 1974 I voted to join the Common Market.
I did not vote to join a united states of Europe, run by non entities full of their own importance. Once again, the UK public were lied to. The plan all along was for the common market to become the u.s. of e
Had I known that at the time, no way would I have voted "join" & I am sure there are millions more who think the same way. As for fighting from within - look at Cameron - went to EU, asked for nothing, got even less & tried to present it to UK as some great victory! If he had come away with some reasonable concessions it is probable the "in" side would have won.

 

Churchill envisioned the whole thing saying "we must build a kind of United States of Europe", claiming you did not vote for what we, the UK, originally intended for Europe is a little weak to say the least, did you not bother to make yourself aware of the concept?

[Kieran00001]

6 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

But there won’t be another vote.... so don’t fret.

 

I am not fretting, just posing a question, what kind of democracy enacts things that the dead wanted and the current electorate don't?

And there will most likely be another vote, perhaps not for several years after leaving but there will be another vote, once the UK economy tanks and the EU is well into their predicted coming Golden Age.

[transam]

37 minutes ago, Grouse said:

And that is where you are so dreadfully wrong. It should be a super majority to change such a serious "constitutional" matter.

Like a UK government that was NOT voted in perhaps...?

[marginline]

6 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I've just told you!

 

You don't need 100% turnout; you just need a majority of the electorate to force through major change.

Right! I know Grouse krub. And I thank you krub. But by using stephenterry's figures, how could you, how would you have increased the vote from 72% to 83.3% (an additional 5,850,001) to satisfy what you have written please, krub? 

[Surasak]

26 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Who are the losers pray?

 

Have you travelled much around the UK and mainland Europe in recent years? You should! You would then have a better idea who is losing ?

Look at the unemployment figures of Europe and those of the UK just as an example.

[Kieran00001]

16 minutes ago, shackleton said:

I was a remainer you can see the pound now dropping worse when we are eventually out if ever 

i can imagine workers at companies  like Rolls Royce , Airbus  Wing Makers and BAE   Systems to name a few must be worried about their futures 

the current government are clueless  about a exit strategy  

interesting times ahead 

 

Europe will retain their prerogative of preventing war, to move those war machine factories onto the mainland along side the other parts of those companies increases their chances of the UK developing their own independent war machine manufactures and thus being capable of going to war with Europe again, they won't let it happen, although they may lose some jobs.

[AllanB]

5 hours ago, Grouse said:

Always been madness. Better to stay and force change from within.

How many major changes did we force through in the entire time we were in?  Zero.

 

How do you force a dictator to change, when he doesn't want to? Regime change.

 

Leaving the EU is better than killing Junker. This is a guy would introduced tax evasion and as a result his own country Luxembourg made a killing.

 

Once we leave we will make a fortune..and the EU will crumble, just like the USSR.

[MyFriend You]

They left out the fifth option

 

I abstain - I have no idea what is best for the UK, only their citizens know whats good for them.

 

[jesimps]

5 hours ago, Grouse said:

Always been madness. Better to stay and force change from within.

Good in theory, but that bunch of lefties aren't for turning. Best just to leave and leave NOW!

[marginline]

8 minutes ago, TunnelRat69 said:

They left out the fifth option

 

I abstain - I have no idea what is best for the UK, only their citizens know whats good for them.

 

Many a true word is written in jest. As that basically is what the 13-million who didn't vote - did!

Thank you TunnelRat69. 

Edited October 15, 2017 by marginline

[transam]

48 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Who are the losers pray?

 

Have you travelled much around the UK and mainland Europe in recent years? You should! You would then have a better idea who is losing ?

The UK is ploughing bundles of cash into the EU yet other countries can retire earlier. Tax systems are different for those who like a drop of vino.....Greece folk can dodge taxes with a smile from authorities cos they are all at it...Plus the UK don't get an afternoon siesta.....

[jesimps]

4 hours ago, BuaBS said:

*Deleted post edited out*

 

Samui Bodoh's opinion does matter. Brexit matters for all of us euro's that hate the EU. We want to see a succesful brexit that will inspire other countries to exit too.

 

The problem is , the Brits didn't expect a brexit and made no plans ahead of the vote. Now they are just treading water for 1,5 years.

Not at all! We've been treading water because we have a "Remainer" in charge of the country. We should have gone to WTO rules right away.

 

[mrbojangles]

32 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

You miss my point. It's not the will of the people. It's the will of 37% of the people.

It's very difficult to put a figure on what was the will of the people who didn't vote.

 

I can see the pro's and con's of both being in the EU and out of it and so I was on the fence. I decided not to vote and by doing so, was happy to take whatever the result was from those who did vote. The way the EU are acting at the moment, is not in the best interests of anyone and so we are probably best off just getting out. Divorce is never easy but most of the time it's not the end of the world, it's the start of the rest of your life.

[marginline]

5 minutes ago, transam said:

The UK is ploughing bundles of cash into the EU yet other countries can retire earlier. Tax systems are different for those who like a drop of vino.....Greece folk can dodge taxes with a smile from authorities cos they are all at it...Plus the UK don't get an afternoon siesta.....

...oh and in Cyprus - you'll get a lovely 'haircut' too! 

[Surasak]

1 hour ago, Surasak said:

Almost impossible. No coupon try on its own could do that

A bit of a mess!! Should read, no country on its own could do that.

[jesimps]

2 hours ago, bontang said:

Brexit Vote was it for the Sake of being Anti EU, Appears to me Brexit was about Power & Glory,

Boris Johnston for one  of the Glory Boys seen an opportunity to move up the ladder to get more icing on his cake 

and was hoping to become U.K next PM & if all goes well he could well be the next PM due to he is Loud & Full of Hot Air,

Rubbish the politicians as much as you want, but it was the people who voted for Brexit.

[pegman]

4 minutes ago, mrbojangles said:

It's very difficult to put a figure on what was the will of the people who didn't vote.

 

I can see the pro's and con's of both being in the EU and out of it and so I was on the fence. I decided not to vote and by doing so, was happy to take whatever the result was from those who did vote. The way the EU are acting at the moment, is not in the best interests of anyone and so we are probably best off just getting out. Divorce is never easy but most of the time it's not the end of the world, it's the start of the rest of your life.

Speaking from experience there can be some pretty lean years before getting established again. 

[stephenterry]

3 minutes ago, mrbojangles said:

It's very difficult to put a figure on what was the will of the people who didn't vote.

 

I can see the pro's and con's of both being in the EU and out of it and so I was on the fence. I decided not to vote and by doing so, was happy to take whatever the result was from those who did vote. The way the EU are acting at the moment, is not in the best interests of anyone and so we are probably best off just getting out. Divorce is never easy but most of the time it's not the end of the world, it's the start of the rest of your life.

Well, the government did, because they stated it was the will of the people. 

 

We are best revoking Article 50, and then planning an orderly exit, if that's the government's thinking. At the moment the UK has to leave, March 2019 whether there is or isn't an agreement in place. 

 

[Kieran00001]

10 minutes ago, mrbojangles said:

It's very difficult to put a figure on what was the will of the people who didn't vote.

 

I can see the pro's and con's of both being in the EU and out of it and so I was on the fence. I decided not to vote and by doing so, was happy to take whatever the result was from those who did vote. The way the EU are acting at the moment, is not in the best interests of anyone and so we are probably best off just getting out. Divorce is never easy but most of the time it's not the end of the world, it's the start of the rest of your life.

 

Quite the messy divorce though, a bit like divorcing a woman whose family is your companies biggest customer, tricky.

[stephenterry]

7 minutes ago, jesimps said:

Rubbish the politicians as much as you want, but it was the people who voted for Brexit.

Yes, 37% of the people.

[Kieran00001]

2 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Well, the government did, because they stated it was the will of the people. 

 

We are best revoking Article 50, and then planning an orderly exit, if that's the government's thinking. At the moment the UK has to leave, March 2019 whether there is or isn't an agreement in place. 

 

 

Not true, it has been made clear that we could change our mind at any time.

[stephenterry]

Just now, Kieran00001 said:

 

Not true, it has been made clear that we could change our mind at any time.

Quite correct, albeit not an unanimous EU statement. However, the Tory government seem hell-bound on proceeding right to the bitter end - and at a huge cost that will eventually be borne by the taxpayer.

[Basil B]

Would have been interesting to have had a straw poll of TV members at the time of the referendum.

 

In this poll it is interesting to see there are more than 52% of TV members claim to voted to leave.

 

I would be interested to know of those who have voted in this poll are British and would have been entitled to vote?