Perpetual flooding in Pattaya

[thaibeachlovers]

47 minutes ago, Chivas said:

The Thais need to get over their face issue and employ some high quality European or Aussie Consultants to sort the issue out once and for all. The Mai Pen Rai attitude is outdated

Sigh. The problem isn't that they can't solve the drainage problem, which would be fixed reasonably easily ( how hard is it to drain rainwater down a slope into the sea? ), it's a much deeper problem, which will likely never be solved in my lifetime.

[tropo]

30 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Are you saying there was no such thing as town planning during Pattaya's existence? It's only been built since about 1967, unless you consider a dirt road and a fishing village to be a town. They built the present city hall in the 80s, before the far too narrow 3rd road was built and it was just wasteland without a single building on it. Obviously they didn't employ any qualified city planners. There was more beach back then too, so they can't even get that right.

The problem is easily rectified, but won't be because that would require investing money in public works, and they don't do that in Pattaya, unless it's building marinas that never open, car parking buildings that never open, piers that don't last more than a few years before breaking and beach promenades that are worse than the version before.

I'm saying exactly what I said in the post you quoted. No more, no less. Draw your own assumptions.

 

If you think Pattaya's infrastructure is "easily rectified", you're dreaming. It will be a massive undertaking that will take decades, even it if was done right. We won't see it in our lifetime even if they started now. I'll just enjoy Pattaya as it is now. I'm fine with it. The floods don't bother me at all.... If I want the first-class infrastructure, I'll move back to Australia. I don't expect it here anymore now than I did 12 years ago when I arrived. It doesn't hurt that I moved here from the Philippines, so for me, by comparison, the infrastructure is perfect.

[JSixpack]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Sigh. The problem isn't that they can't solve the drainage problem, which would be fixed reasonably easily

 

 

A solution always seems easy when you don't actually know much of anything about the problem in toto.

 

On 10/8/2017 at 5:56 PM, JSixpack said:

No. You've confused "can't" with "won't." They might someday. But a few days a year doesn't upset Thais enough to spend the money & effort to stop it--in general, not just in Pattaya. As somebody noted, "It's normal" but particularly for Thais. Tourists aren't going to be out on the beach on those days anyway. You'll see the same different cultural attitude in a number of areas that are regularly exploited here on the forum for bashing purposes.

 

Sorry--I know you were feelin' SO superior to Thais there and that's important.

 

 

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( how hard is it to drain rainwater down a slope into the sea? ), it's a much deeper problem, which will likely never be solved in my lifetime.

 

tropo gave you the correct response. Yes, it's a much deeper problem. It won't be easy and it will be expensive and disruptive.

 

[JSixpack]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

There was never a need for a tunnel. A flyover, of which they have a lot of experience should have been built. Quicker and cheaper by far.

 

 

This is always our illogical little argument. The TVF Central Planning Bureau only authorizes projects based on "need" as determined by the Bureau. There was actually no need for anything after 1995. So the list of constructions not "needed" is quite a long one. Most nobably, in your universe, there was no need for CentralFestival. We already had Royal Garden. The tunnel is much nicer than a flyover. And they had enough experience to build it. It's really not the first tunnel in Thailand. You could probably find some in Chiang Mai in fact. Nor would a flyover necessarily have been quicker. As I recall the Laem Chabang flyover took years and traffic was quite a mess during construction too. This is never acknowledged.

 

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Isn't the reason for Boston's road problems that freezing damages them/ Hardly relevant in Pattaya.

 

 

Duh. Your answer isn't relevant to Boston or any other city of which the same could be said, as you'd know from a quick google. Yes, it's relevant to Pattaya.

 

Quote

 

Suppose the City had started spending a vast amount 25 years ago digging up the streets and putting in huge drainage pipes suitable for a large city. OMG. Think of the reaction in the Mailbag section of the Pattaya Mail!

Laughs on you, 'cause that's exactly what they did along Beach Rd, except it was more recently. Took them 3 years because they kept putting in ones that were too small. So each year they dug it up, took out the smaller ones and put in larger. 3rd year put in really big ones.

 

 

You're not addressing my point but merely comforting yourself with another straw man argument. Larger pipes, not all that large actually, were put in a few places. And that wasn't a major disruption or terribly expensive, being so limited. Wanna see a major disruption, take a look at Siam Country Club. Again, Pattaya kept growing faster than anyone could have anticipated--certainly YOU didn't anticipate it.

 

But most of the waterworks were built nearly 20 years ago for a much smaller town. As I said, had they spent a vast amount then for huge pipes for this small monger town where, as you said, nobody could afford "Bangkok prices" with the serious digging those would entail, then the ace armchair Pattaya Mail Urban Planners, now superseded, would certainly have squawked and offered up all the usual faster, cheaper, better "solutions" for which they'd pay hardly a satang in taxes themselves.

 

Indeed, just the digging of the Tunnel outside of town has already left so many of our members with Tunnel PTSD. I mean, what if an extensive reconstruction of the waterworks actually did stop the flooding after all the usual sneering that it couldn't possibly! OMG. The Flooders would then join the Tunnelers in losing the will to live except for checking TVF continually in the hope of reading flooding news. So it might really not be a good thing for the membership anyway.

 

Extensive reconstruction is obviously needed now to solve the problem, which may or may not be worth it. Other aspects to consider are the pumping stations and the canals.

 

Edited October 22, 2017 by JSixpack

[Naam]

52 minutes ago, JSixpack said:

The Flooders would then join the Tunnelers in losing the will to live except for checking TVF continually in the hope of reading flooding news.

 

[tropo]

2 hours ago, JSixpack said:

 

This is always our illogical little argument. The TVF Central Planning Bureau only authorizes projects based on "need" as determined by the Bureau. There was actually no need for anything after 1995. So the list of constructions not "needed" is quite a long one. Most nobably, in your universe, there was no need for CentralFestival. We already had Royal Garden. The tunnel is much nicer than a flyover. And they had enough experience to build it. It's really not the first tunnel in Thailand. You could probably find some in Chiang Mai in fact. Nor would a flyover necessarily have been quicker. As I recall the Laem Chabang flyover took years and traffic was quite a mess during construction too. This is never acknowledged.

 

 

Duh. Your answer isn't relevant to Boston or any other city of which the same could be said, as you'd know from a quick google. Yes, it's relevant to Pattaya.

 

 

You're not addressing my point but merely comforting yourself with another straw man argument. Larger pipes, not all that large actually, were put in a few places. And that wasn't a major disruption or terribly expensive, being so limited. Wanna see a major disruption, take a look at Siam Country Club. Again, Pattaya kept growing faster than anyone could have anticipated--certainly YOU didn't anticipate it.

 

But most of the waterworks were built nearly 20 years ago for a much smaller town. As I said, had they spent a vast amount then for huge pipes for this small monger town where, as you said, nobody could afford "Bangkok prices" with the serious digging those would entail, then the ace armchair Pattaya Mail Urban Planners, now superseded, would certainly have squawked and offered up all the usual faster, cheaper, better "solutions" for which they'd pay hardly a satang in taxes themselves.

 

Indeed, just the digging of the Tunnel outside of town has already left so many of our members with Tunnel PTSD. I mean, what if an extensive reconstruction of the waterworks actually did stop the flooding after all the usual sneering that it couldn't possibly! OMG. The Flooders would then join the Tunnelers in losing the will to live except for checking TVF continually in the hope of reading flooding news. So it might really not be a good thing for the membership anyway.

 

Extensive reconstruction is obviously needed now to solve the problem, which may or may not be worth it. Other aspects to consider are the pumping stations and the canals.

 

(You, sir, have a way with words. It's also a pleasure to read your replies)

 

I certainly hope, that during my stay here that they never decide to dig up all the roads to improve drainage. That would be an absolute nightmare, as we both stated (and everyone else seems either to have forgotten, or are blissfully unaware of), we have living proof right now with Soi Country Club Road. Imagine that was Pattaya Klang.

 

No thanks! I'll enjoy the odd flood... and you CAN actually enjoy them. I remember a few years ago Pattaya Tai had become a river while I was drinking coffee in Starbucks at Tukcom. The reflection of the moonlight in this temporary river was very pleasant indeed. I must look up the photos I took and post some...

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎10‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 3:03 PM, tropo said:

I'm saying exactly what I said in the post you quoted. No more, no less. Draw your own assumptions.

 

If you think Pattaya's infrastructure is "easily rectified", you're dreaming. It will be a massive undertaking that will take decades, even it if was done right. We won't see it in our lifetime even if they started now. I'll just enjoy Pattaya as it is now. I'm fine with it. The floods don't bother me at all.... If I want the first-class infrastructure, I'll move back to Australia. I don't expect it here anymore now than I did 12 years ago when I arrived. It doesn't hurt that I moved here from the Philippines, so for me, by comparison, the infrastructure is perfect.

Perhaps I didn't write enough, but I made the mistake of thinking that other posters would understand that "the problem" referred to the flooding, which is what the thread is about.

Very easily solved as I've described before, and no need to go rebuilding Pattaya to do so. No doubt JSixpack can find the quote in the file he is keeping on me.

 

I too like the decrepit infrastructure- it keeps the families and rich people away.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎10‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 5:24 PM, JSixpack said:

 

. It's really not the first tunnel in Thailand. You could probably find some in Chiang Mai in fact. Nor would a flyover necessarily have been quicker.

 

 

Duh. Your answer isn't relevant to Boston or any other city of which the same could be said, as you'd know from a quick google. Yes, it's relevant to Pattaya.

 

You're not addressing my point but merely comforting yourself with another straw man argument. Larger pipes, not all that large actually, were put in a few places. And that wasn't a major disruption or terribly expensive, being so limited.

 

 

Extensive reconstruction is obviously needed now to solve the problem, which may or may not be worth it. Other aspects to consider are the pumping stations and the canals.

 

Plenty of tunnels in Chiang Mai. They're making one on the superhighway at the moment. No fuss, no blocked traffic, no big mess- just getting the job done. Perhaps they know how to do it, unlike in Pattaya.

 

If you don't like me answering another poster's comment on Boston roads you can complain to him about his off topic contribution.

 

55555555555555555555. Great big, huge pipes. Perhaps you only remember the first time they did it when they did put in small ones that didn't work. No, never stopped the traffic while they were laying them.

 

Extensive reconstruction is obviously needed now to solve the problem,

Don't hold your breath. It's not going to happen, or at least not enough to make a difference. Demolishing half of Pattaya would cost way too much.

However, they could easily solve the flooding on Beach Rd with very little disruption.

 

[tropo]

8 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Plenty of tunnels in Chiang Mai. They're making one on the superhighway at the moment. No fuss, no blocked traffic, no big mess- just getting the job done. Perhaps they know how to do it, unlike in Pattaya.

 

If you don't like me answering another poster's comment on Boston roads you can complain to him about his off topic contribution.

 

55555555555555555555. Great big, huge pipes. Perhaps you only remember the first time they did it when they did put in small ones that didn't work. No, never stopped the traffic while they were laying them.

 

Extensive reconstruction is obviously needed now to solve the problem,

Don't hold your breath. It's not going to happen, or at least not enough to make a difference. Demolishing half of Pattaya would cost way too much.

However, they could easily solve the flooding on Beach Rd with very little disruption.

 

You continue to bang your "it's easy" drum. That's absolute nonsense. There is no easy way to solve Pattaya's flooding problems, no matter how much money and expertise you throw at it.

 

It's ludicrous to compare Pattaya, a mere fishing village until the 1960's, with Chiang Mail, a capital city founded in 1296. Chiang Mai has had 721 years to fix their problems, compared to a couple of decades for Pattaya. Poor planning is a result of unexpected and unprecedented growth with no reliable crystal ball to guide them. A fishing village became a popular tourist resort and ultimately a real city in the space of a few decades.

 

I don't know much about Chiang Mai, but isn't it in the mountains? Most of Pattaya is barely above sea level. 

 

By all means, enjoy the amazing town planning of your new adopted city. We like Pattaya how it is, floods and all... I hope they don't start trying to fix that while I'm here because the whole of Pattaya could become a Soi Country Club road type disaster zone.

[Golden Triangle]

I live at the top of the hill so I really don't give a cuss 

[swissie]

An amateurs question in connection with the very frequent floodings of Pattaya.

Assuming that not ALL the floodwater finds it's way to the ocean. Some of the water (with nowhere to go), will form some undergroud "soft pockets" under the foundation of houses? Some houses starting to "lean-over", partially collapsing later on?
Some "construction guys" may be able to shed some light on this.

The reason I am asking is that I have received an offer to purchase the "Royal Garden Plaza" by a realtor based in Lagos, Nigeria for the price of $ 16.25
Cheers.

[tropo]

3 hours ago, Golden Triangle said:

I live at the top of the hill so I really don't give a cuss 

Same here. Another reason why I don't "give a cuss" LOL

[craigt3365]

10 hours ago, Golden Triangle said:

I live at the top of the hill so I really don't give a cuss 

So you never leave your house?  Agreed.  It doesn't matter then.

[Techno Viking]

1 minute ago, craigt3365 said:

So you never leave your house?  Agreed.  It doesn't matter then.

I too live on a hill but have no need to go into town everyday so when the soi floods it dont really bother me.

[craigt3365]

4 minutes ago, Techno Viking said:

I too live on a hill but have no need to go into town everyday so when the soi floods it dont really bother me.

No problem except when you are already out and get jammed up because of it.  Like happened to us last week.  And many other times in the past. LOL

[Techno Viking]

1 minute ago, craigt3365 said:

No problem except when you are already out and get jammed up because of it.  Like happened to us last week.  And many other times in the past. LOL

Never happened to me.

[impulse]

On 10/22/2017 at 3:32 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Sigh. The problem isn't that they can't solve the drainage problem, which would be fixed reasonably easily ( how hard is it to drain rainwater down a slope into the sea? ), it's a much deeper problem, which will likely never be solved in my lifetime.

 

It would be helpful if someone could point out the slope.  For water to drain at all, there has to be some slope.  For it to drain in a hurry, there has to be more slope.  It's the combination of slope angle and cross sectional area of the drains that either carries the water downstream, or backs it up. 

 

Pattaya has very little slope, meaning there has to be a lot of cross sectional area in the drains if they want rain water to clear quickly.  That's expensive- both from a construction and from a land use standpoint.  Not saying it's not a good idea, but as others have pointed out, it's not going to be a trivial fix.

 

[JSixpack]

16 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I made the mistake of thinking that other posters would understand that "the problem" referred to the flooding, which is what the thread is about.

 

 

They did so understand; your mistake was not understanding that the waterworks are part of the infrastructure, you see. Odd, given your expertise. Yep, infrastructure isn't just "pavers" and seating on the Promenade.

 

Quote

Very easily solved as I've described before

 

 

No. "Solution" given merely naive and laughable.

 

15 hours ago, tropo said:

You continue to bang your "it's easy" drum. That's absolute nonsense. There is no easy way to solve Pattaya's flooding problems, no matter how much money and expertise you throw at it.

 

 

3 hours ago, impulse said:

Pattaya has very little slope, meaning there has to be a lot of cross sectional area in the drains if they want rain water to clear quickly.  That's expensive- both from a construction and from a land use standpoint.  Not saying it's not a good idea, but as others have pointed out, it's not going to be a trivial fix.

3

 

 

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and no need to go rebuilding Pattaya to do so.

 

Rebuilding the drainage system will be both expensive and disruptive. Latest budget allocation is 58 billion baht.

 

Quote

No doubt JSixpack can find the quote in the file he is keeping on me.

 

 

Rimmer has already addressed this bit of vainglorious nonsense here. Perhaps the message requires additional reinforcement? Can be provided.

 

16 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Plenty of tunnels in Chiang Mai. They're making one on the superhighway at the moment. No fuss, no blocked traffic, no big mess- just getting the job done. Perhaps they know how to do it, unlike in Pattaya.

 

 

You've forgotten what your point was again. Your point is that Thais can't build tunnels. At this point you may have forgotten that Thais built and are building those Chiang Mai tunnels. Nor is there any travel restriction on the Chiang Mai Thais. So then for all you know Chiang Mai Thais (the only Thais who can build tunnels) might have supervised the building of the Pattaya tunnel. This assumes that you'll acknowledge that tunnel-building in Pattaya isn't actually restricted to only builders born in Pattaya. Oh--let's not forget the Bangkok MRT. Chiang Mai Thais again!!! So perhaps you can suggest to the Chiang Mai authorities that they send some Chiang Mai-born engineers to help out with the flooding problem. 'Course, that would require doing something more than just posting here.

 

Another contention reduced to hot air.

 

Quote

If you don't like me answering another poster's comment on Boston roads you can complain to him about his off topic contribution.

1

 

Here you've been unable to determine what poster and whose comment you were answering. Sorry, at this point, in my usual spirit of disinterested benevolence, I just gotta bring this to your attention:

 

How to Test Your Memory for Alzheimer's and Dementia

 

Quote

55555555555555555555. Great big, huge pipes. Perhaps you only remember the first time they did it when they did put in small ones that didn't work. No, never stopped the traffic while they were laying them.

 

 

No. As I said they weren't all that big. 60 cm is the figure quoted. The new plan calls for 1 and 2 meters, plus greater separation of the waste water from the flood water. BTW, you can fix the sticky '5' key on your keyboard by removing the key, blowing w/ compressed air, and then cleaning w/ alcohol or contact cleaner on a Q tip. Make your posts look a lot less silly.

 

Quote

Extensive reconstruction is obviously needed now to solve the problem,

Don't hold your breath. It's not going to happen, or at least not enough to make a difference. Demolishing half of Pattaya would cost way too much.

 

 

Nobody said it's going to happen, though a lot has happened here that our TVF Urban Planners (and Pattaya Mail Urban Planners before 2003) said wouldn't happen. There has been some recent noise about and maybe there is some hope of diverting the flood water north and south via the canals. We'll see. Unlike so many of our experts, I just lack the gift of clairvoyance.

 

Quote

However, they could easily solve the flooding on Beach Rd with very little disruption.

 

See above. The ol' "broken record" ain't workin' for ya, man. Perhaps it's important for you to cling to this fantasy for the usual Thai-bashing purposes. However, it does tend to mislead our noobs who don't know any better and helps perpetuate the "Thais are stupid, incompetent, and corrupt" bigotry so prevalent on the forum.

 

 

Edited October 24, 2017 by JSixpack

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, tropo said:

You continue to bang your "it's easy" drum. That's absolute nonsense. There is no easy way to solve Pattaya's flooding problems, no matter how much money and expertise you throw at it.

 

It's ludicrous to compare Pattaya, a mere fishing village until the 1960's, with Chiang Mail, a capital city founded in 1296. Chiang Mai has had 721 years to fix their problems, compared to a couple of decades for Pattaya. Poor planning is a result of unexpected and unprecedented growth with no reliable crystal ball to guide them. A fishing village became a popular tourist resort and ultimately a real city in the space of a few decades.

 

I don't know much about Chiang Mai, but isn't it in the mountains? Most of Pattaya is barely above sea level. 

 

By all means, enjoy the amazing town planning of your new adopted city. We like Pattaya how it is, floods and all... I hope they don't start trying to fix that while I'm here because the whole of Pattaya could become a Soi Country Club road type disaster zone.

Just because YOU are unable to think of a simple and easy option does not mean that the option does not exist.

 

Most of Pattaya is barely above sea level. 

and yet you say that you have no problem because YOU live on a HILL

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, impulse said:

 

It would be helpful if someone could point out the slope.  For water to drain at all, there has to be some slope.  For it to drain in a hurry, there has to be more slope.  It's the combination of slope angle and cross sectional area of the drains that either carries the water downstream, or backs it up. 

 

Pattaya has very little slope, meaning there has to be a lot of cross sectional area in the drains if they want rain water to clear quickly.  That's expensive- both from a construction and from a land use standpoint.  Not saying it's not a good idea, but as others have pointed out, it's not going to be a trivial fix.

 

If anyone had read what I said rather than what they think I said, I was referring to Beach Rd, not the entire Pattaya/ Jomptien city area.

[NanLaew]

On 10/22/2017 at 1:52 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

You are wrong.

I saw them being put in.

You saw pipework but it wasn't what you claim it to be.

[NanLaew]

21 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Plenty of tunnels in Chiang Mai. They're making one on the superhighway at the moment. No fuss, no blocked traffic, no big mess- just getting the job done. Perhaps they know how to do it, unlike in Pattaya.

Plenty of blocked lanes and diversion and flooding when they were digging some of Chiang Mai's other tunnels about 3 years ago. Just because you caught a glimpse of the action on a good day...

 

...or some pipes being set on Beach Road.

Edited October 24, 2017 by NanLaew

[Techno Viking]

12 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

You saw pipework but it wasn't what you claim it to be.

he might have seen these ones went in in 2015.

 

 

 

 

[JSixpack]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If anyone had read what I said rather than what they think I said, I was referring to Beach Rd, not the entire Pattaya/ Jomptien city area.

 

Oh, everyone read what you said but realize quite rightly that Beach Rd flooding isn't an isolated phenomenon w/ no relationship to the flooding in the rest of the city.

 

[tropo]

13 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Just because YOU are unable to think of a simple and easy option does not mean that the option does not exist.

 

 

 

So you have a solution that you thought of that would fix Pattaya's flooding with hardly any disruption at all.

 

All I can say to that is:    and again: 

 

Btw, what is our problem with Pattaya flooding? You left here didn't you?

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, Techno Viking said:

he might have seen these ones went in in 2015.

 

 

 

 

Those, as you point out are this century. The ones I saw going in were in the mid 90s.

[Techno Viking]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

Those, as you point out are this century. The ones I saw going in were in the mid 90s.

righto, so smaller or larger than them ?

[thaibeachlovers]

10 hours ago, tropo said:

So you have a solution that you thought of that would fix Pattaya's flooding with hardly any disruption at all.

 

All I can say to that is:    and again: 

 

Btw, what is our problem with Pattaya flooding? You left here didn't you?

Good grief, I just said 5 posts prior to that, that I was referring to BEACH RD, not Pattaya as a whole.

As you appear to be trolling now, I shall attempt to not respond to any more of your posts on this thread.

 

I didn't leave Pattaya willingly, and I'd prefer to be there, but sometimes life sucks.

[tropo]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Good grief, I just said 5 posts prior to that, that I was referring to BEACH RD, not Pattaya as a whole.

As you appear to be trolling now, I shall attempt to not respond to any more of your posts on this thread.

 

I didn't leave Pattaya willingly, and I'd prefer to be there, but sometimes life sucks.

 You use a  emoticon in your reply to me and then you call me a troll because I responded with 2 of them. I'd say that makes you the troll.  

 

I was responding to your reply, and it had no earlier context about drainage in Beach Road.