Britain's May asks EU to help her end Brexit sniping at home

[xylophone]

12 hours ago, dunroaming said:

Now we are either blaming the government or the EU for the situation we are in.  In reality we created this mess

Agree on that point and I have a friend here who is pro Brexit and who is continually complaining about "those bastard's in the EU making it difficult for us".

 

Well, whoopee, what did you think it was going to be like? Like someone else has said, divorces are rarely amicable and this is no different and my question to him has always been, "well all of this should have been thought through in the early stages and the problem lies with the people who wanted the exit because they obviously hadn't thought the ramifications through very clearly".

 

As he is stubborn, he does not see it this way and is still convinced that all of the "misinformation" that was bandied around prior to the vote is absolutely true.

 

The misinformation campaign was littered with untruths, the planning and forethought were absent and the anticipated reaction by the remaining EU partners was severely underestimated – – now live with it!

[Samui Bodoh]

I am not British, so I don't have a dog in this fight.

 

But, as an outside observer...

 

The UK voted to leave. Leave already!

 

All this talk about how the UK 'still wants to be friends with the EU' sounds like a teenage break up story. 

 

You voted to go.

 

Go.

 

[Khun Han]

3 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

I am not British, so I don't have a dog in this fight.

 

But, as an outside observer...

 

The UK voted to leave. Leave already!

 

All this talk about how the UK 'still wants to be friends with the EU' sounds like a teenage break up story. 

 

You voted to go.

 

Go.

 

 

You're not British, and clearly not European, and you clearly don't understand the dynamic involved in this situation. But feel free to continue with the inane comments.

[Samui Bodoh]

8 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

You're not British, and clearly not European, and you clearly don't understand the dynamic involved in this situation. But feel free to continue with the inane comments.

Tis' true that I am neither British nor European, but the dynamic is pretty clear.

 

The UK was part of a valid and viable community for decades but decided to leave. The decision to leave was both legal and legitimate as per article 50.

 

The UK did not do the required homework nor consensus-building to arrive at a clear, unified position for the talks.

 

Now the talks are not progressing smoothly and the UK government looks weak and foolish.

 

What have I missed?

 

[ilostmypassword]

41 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Tis' true that I am neither British nor European, but the dynamic is pretty clear.

 

The UK was part of a valid and viable community for decades but decided to leave. The decision to leave was both legal and legitimate as per article 50.

 

The UK did not do the required homework nor consensus-building to arrive at a clear, unified position for the talks.

 

Now the talks are not progressing smoothly and the UK government looks weak and foolish.

 

What have I missed?

 

You missed that obvious fact that only those with British genes can understand this situation.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said:

You missed that obvious fact that only those with British genes can understand this situation.

Interesting!

 

I do find Marks & Spencer's ones much comfortable than Levis.

[Retiredandhappyhere]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

Interesting!

 

I do find Marks & Spencer's ones much comfortable than Levis.

It is surprising, Grouse, that someone as knowledgeable as you, cannot spell, although I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that it was a rare moment of humour on your part, when, for some inexplicable reason, your usual condescending manner deserted you.  

[taipeir]

Agree on that point and I have a friend here who is pro Brexit and who is continually complaining about "those bastard's in the EU making it difficult for us".   Well, whoopee, what did you think it was going to be like? Like someone else has said, divorces are rarely amicable and this is no different and my question to him has always been, "well all of this should have been thought through in the early stages and the problem lies with the people who wanted the exit because they obviously hadn't thought the ramifications through very clearly".  

As he is stubborn, he does not see it this way and is still convinced that all of the "misinformation" that was bandied around prior to the vote is absolutely true.

 

The misinformation campaign was littered with untruths, the planning and forethought were absent and the anticipated reaction by the remaining EU partners was severely underestimated – – now live with it!

 

 

 

These guys all bought into the tabloid press about Juncker or Tusk as if the EU was run by the EU apparatus heads. In reality the EU is run by the other 27 countries as well as the UK. 

Do people think that the heads of state in Germany, France, Ireland, Poland , Spain, Italy, Holland etc won't be making the decisions ultimately ? These govenrnents have a very strong interest in not getting lumped with Britains debts AND major concerns about borders and their citizens rights and they are going to make sure that they will benefit for their economies if possible e.g. financial jobs. There is no way they will let the UK keep euro passporting.

 

They are interested in trade, military cooperation and keeping good relations in future but not at their own peoples detriment!

 

 If people can't see this then they are idiots. The rest of the EU is very united so far which seems to have come as an almighty shock to a lot of Brexit voters.....that and the fact that leaving the EU is an expensive and very cumnersome process fraught with difficulty which will take many years to achieve.

 

The no deal stuff is a fantasy...There is a hard core of Brexit politicians and voters (mostly elderly) who want to do it hell or high water but make no mistake that would be a huge disaster for many in the UK.

 

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[Khun Han]

6 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Tis' true that I am neither British nor European, but the dynamic is pretty clear.

 

The UK was part of a valid and viable community for decades but decided to leave. The decision to leave was both legal and legitimate as per article 50.

 

The UK did not do the required homework nor consensus-building to arrive at a clear, unified position for the talks.

 

Now the talks are not progressing smoothly and the UK government looks weak and foolish.

 

What have I missed?

 

 

You have missed the most important part. The UK's position was perfectly valid, and quite solid immediately after the referendum. Since then, powerful remainers have relentlessly undermined and weakened that position to the point we are at now. The daft thing is, they are going to fail, but they are going to cost the UK a lot of money and put it in a far weaker position than it should have been in. But UK inc. will still do just fine in the short term, and great in the medium-to-long term. And history will judge the remain traitors very poorly (the war criminal Blair, in particular). All imo, of course.

[rockingrobin]

8 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

You have missed the most important part. The UK's position was perfectly valid, and quite solid immediately after the referendum. Since then, powerful remainers have relentlessly undermined and weakened that position to the point we are at now. The daft thing is, they are going to fail, but they are going to cost the UK a lot of money and put it in a far weaker position than it should have been in. But UK inc. will still do just fine in the short term, and great in the medium-to-long term. And history will judge the remain traitors very poorly (the war criminal Blair, in particular). All imo, of course.

Was it not T.May who called an unecessary general election ,after sending the art 50 notification, who in her words said the country had come together but not parliament.

[dunroaming]

9 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Brexiters didn't create the mess. Disruptive remainers and the EU did. Brexiters wanted a neat and tidy separation. Remainers and the EU have done everything in their power to create the almighty mess. But you knew that anyway.

Brexiteers didn't create the mess. I never said they did.  The mess was created by the people pitching for leaving and to some extent also the people pitching to remain.  We were lied to by these people because they were playing politics and we were the pawns in their game.  Just look at the key players and how they are now saying exactly the opposite of what they were saying when trying to convince us that it was going to be a great success for Britain.  It was never any secret that the EU would fight us hammer and tongs over leaving.  They made it very clear before the vote and that was said by Cameron at the time.  Johnson, Gove, Davis and Fox said that the EU needed us as much as we need them and they would happily agree to trade deals.

 

Most of the Brexiteers voted in good faith believing they were being told the truth.  You can keep blaming the EU but in reality they have never changed their position whereas the British Brexit boys are spinning and backtracking every day.

[Baerboxer]

2 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

Was it not T.May who called an unecessary general election ,after sending the art 50 notification, who in her words said the country had come together but not parliament.

Indeed - the say T.May who went to the Supreme Court to try and circumvent the constitution and lost.

 

As she couldn't use the Royal Prerogative to bypass parliament as she wished, she tried to get an increase in her party's majority, and again lost, rather harshly.

 

I have more confidence in the strength of low cost shit paper than her.

[dick dasterdly]

10 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

You have missed the most important part. The UK's position was perfectly valid, and quite solid immediately after the referendum. Since then, powerful remainers have relentlessly undermined and weakened that position to the point we are at now. The daft thing is, they are going to fail, but they are going to cost the UK a lot of money and put it in a far weaker position than it should have been in. But UK inc. will still do just fine in the short term, and great in the medium-to-long term. And history will judge the remain traitors very poorly (the war criminal Blair, in particular). All imo, of course.

"You have missed the most important part. The UK's position was perfectly valid, and quite solid immediately after the referendum. Since then, powerful remainers have relentlessly undermined and weakened that position to the point we are at now."

 

Agree entirely.

[Baerboxer]

6 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

You missed that obvious fact that only those with British genes can understand this situation.

 

Just like only those with American genes can understand the dynamics of the last US presidential campaign eh?

 

 

[Baerboxer]

7 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Tis' true that I am neither British nor European, but the dynamic is pretty clear.

 

The UK was part of a valid and viable community for decades but decided to leave. The decision to leave was both legal and legitimate as per article 50.

 

The UK did not do the required homework nor consensus-building to arrive at a clear, unified position for the talks.

 

Now the talks are not progressing smoothly and the UK government looks weak and foolish.

 

What have I missed?

 

 

It takes two to Tango! And the EU ain't willing to dance at the moment.

[dunroaming]

6 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

"You have missed the most important part. The UK's position was perfectly valid, and quite solid immediately after the referendum. Since then, powerful remainers have relentlessly undermined and weakened that position to the point we are at now."

 

Agree entirely.

I think you are confusing "undermining" with telling it how it is.  The remainers are not part of the negotiating team nor do they have any influence when it comes those negotiations.  The team is made up of the Brexit boys unless you still think that May is batting for the other side?

 

Just be honest, it is sour grapes because of the bullsh*t that we were all fed and believed.

[aright]

On ‎20‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 7:51 AM, Srikcir said:

Brexit is a divorce, not a marriage. There is no "together."

 

 

21 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Spot on. And not all divorces are amicable and often one or more partner is spiteful and determined to screw the other.

When we leave the EU, we are leaving a club not a marriage. When we joined the club I don't recall an "Until death do us part " clause being invoked.  

[Samui Bodoh]

25 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

It takes two to Tango! And the EU ain't willing to dance at the moment.

 

Respectfully, why should they? The UK has said that it is leaving. Do you think the EU is going to say " No! Please don't go!".

 

The only thing left is to finalize the end of the agreement. And the idea that the EU owes anything to the UK is ludicrous. Cross the 't', dot the 'i', sign the papers and be done with it.

 

Then see how not being in the EU benefits your economy...

 

[brewsterbudgen]

 
Respectfully, why should they? The UK has said that it is leaving. Do you think the EU is going to say " No! Please don't go!".
 
The only thing left is to finalize the end of the agreement. And the idea that the EU owes anything to the UK is ludicrous. Cross the 't', dot the 'i', sign the papers and be done with it.
 
Then see how not being in the EU benefits your economy...
 

Exactly. And why would the EU want to make things easy and thereby encourage other members to make a similar short-sighted and foolish decision?

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[Grouse]

3 hours ago, Retiredandhappyhere said:

It is surprising, Grouse, that someone as knowledgeable as you, cannot spell, although I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that it was a rare moment of humour on your part, when, for some inexplicable reason, your usual condescending manner deserted you.  

I AM the jean genie!

 

[dunroaming]

29 minutes ago, aright said:

 

When we leave the EU, we are leaving a club not a marriage. When we joined the club I don't recall an "Until death do us part " clause being invoked.  

Quite right but there was an article 50 and various other conditions on leaving that everyone signs up for.  That is now the process that we are going through.  Maybe not a marriage but it does smack of "I am leaving you and taking my CD collection with me" followed by" but I don't want you to go and you will have to fight me for your CD collection".  Something you don't get when leaving a club! 

[chrissables]

3 hours ago, taipeir said:

These guys all bought into the tabloid press about Juncker or Tusk as if the EU was run by the EU apparatus heads. In reality the EU is run by the other 27 countries as well as the UK. 

Do people think that the heads of state in Germany, France, Ireland, Poland , Spain, Italy, Holland etc won't be making the decisions ultimately ? These govenrnents have a very strong interest in not getting lumped with Britains debts AND major concerns about borders and their citizens rights and they are going to make sure that they will benefit for their economies if possible e.g. financial jobs. There is no way they will let the UK keep euro passporting.

 

They are interested in trade, military cooperation and keeping good relations in future but not at their own peoples detriment!

 

 If people can't see this then they are idiots. The rest of the EU is very united so far which seems to have come as an almighty shock to a lot of Brexit voters.....that and the fact that leaving the EU is an expensive and very cumnersome process fraught with difficulty which will take many years to achieve.

 

The no deal stuff is a fantasy...There is a hard core of Brexit politicians and voters (mostly elderly) who want to do it hell or high water but make no mistake that would be a huge disaster for many in the UK.

 

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Britain's debt, what is that exactly?

[sirineou]

Right or wrong, the UK as did all the other countries got together in what they call the EU and agreed to go some place and jointly share their proportion of the cost.  

 Now they want to leave but don't want to pay their share!! The EU is not stopping them from leaving, is not even forcing them to pay, It is simply saying , if you want to discuss a special  relationship , pay your bill .

The EU will not make this easy , they don't want  leaving the block to be easy!!!

Would you act the same way in your personal lives?? if you and  a friend entered in a partnership and together agreed to fund certain projects , if that friend decided to leave the partnership, will you not demand that before you talk about your future friendship he should settle his prorated financial responsibilities? 

And would you make it easy for him not to pay what he owns? If you did wouldn't all your other friends consider you an easy mark, and also try to do the same to you?

Come on guys, a litle common sense. 

 

[dunroaming]

3 hours ago, taipeir said:

These guys all bought into the tabloid press about Juncker or Tusk as if the EU was run by the EU apparatus heads. In reality the EU is run by the other 27 countries as well as the UK. 

Do people think that the heads of state in Germany, France, Ireland, Poland , Spain, Italy, Holland etc won't be making the decisions ultimately ? These govenrnents have a very strong interest in not getting lumped with Britains debts AND major concerns about borders and their citizens rights and they are going to make sure that they will benefit for their economies if possible e.g. financial jobs. There is no way they will let the UK keep euro passporting.

 

They are interested in trade, military cooperation and keeping good relations in future but not at their own peoples detriment!

 

 If people can't see this then they are idiots. The rest of the EU is very united so far which seems to have come as an almighty shock to a lot of Brexit voters.....that and the fact that leaving the EU is an expensive and very cumnersome process fraught with difficulty which will take many years to achieve.

 

The no deal stuff is a fantasy...There is a hard core of Brexit politicians and voters (mostly elderly) who want to do it hell or high water but make no mistake that would be a huge disaster for many in the UK.

 

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I am not sure what you mean by Britain's debts?  However I think you make some very valid points.  I am sure it looks attractive to some of the other EU countries that after Brexit and many of the European companies in Britain decide to re-locate, it could be an opportunity for them to boost their economy. 

[Jip99]

2 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Right or wrong, the UK as did all the other countries got together in what they call the EU and agreed to go some place and jointly share their proportion of the cost.  

 Now they want to leave but don't want to pay their share!! The EU is not stopping them from leaving, is not even forcing them to pay, It is simply saying , if you want to discuss a special  relationship , pay your bill .

The EU will not make this easy , they don't want  leaving the block to be easy!!!

Would you act the same way in your personal lives?? if you and  a friend entered in a partnership and together agreed to fund certain projects , if that friend decided to leave the partnership, will you not demand that before you talk about your future friendship he should settle his prorated financial responsibilities? 

And would you make it easy for him not to pay what he owns? If you did wouldn't all your other friends consider you an easy mark, and also try to do the same to you?

Come on guys, a litle common sense. 

 

 

 

Would you not accept that the EU has a vested interest in brokering a deal that is in both sides best interests for the long term?

 

I, along with most Brixiteers, have never said that a divorce bill is not payable.

 

Your analogy, or using divorce, or using leaving a golf club is perfectly valid....but, in my divorces I never agreed the financial terms until all other matters were agreed. 

[chrissables]

Just now, sirineou said:

Right or wrong, the UK as did all the other countries got together in what they call the EU and agreed to go some place and jointly share their proportion of the cost.  

 Now they want to leave but don't want to pay their share!! The EU is not stopping them from leaving, is not even forcing them to pay, It is simply saying , if you want to discuss a special  relationship , pay your bill .

The EU will not make this easy , they don't want  leaving the block to be easy!!!

Would you act the same way in your personal lives?? if you and  a friend entered in a partnership and together agreed to fund certain projects , if that friend decided to leave the partnership, will you not demand that before you talk about your future friendship he should settle his prorated financial responsibilities? 

And would you make it easy for him not to pay what he owns? If you did wouldn't all your other friends consider you an easy mark, and also try to do the same to you?

Come on guys, a litle common sense. 

 

So you think Britain should pay an unknown and unquantified sum of money because they were a net contributor and you believe they have a legal obligation to pay?

 

What if one of the non net contributing countries decided to leave and for example they had been receiving 50 million a year in benefits.  I presume the EU would continue to pay these benefits until article 50  came into effect? And then of course there would be the transition period also the EU should keep paying through. I think we know the answer to that!

 

 

[Grouse]

21 minutes ago, chrissables said:

Britain's debt, what is that exactly?

47,567,453,675.23 

 

(Euro)

[chrissables]

Just now, Grouse said:

47,567,453,675.23 

 

(Euro)

Seems a tad high!

[aright]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

47,567,453,675.23 

 

(Euro)

Did you include the work the council are doing on my road?

[dunroaming]

8 minutes ago, chrissables said:

So you think Britain should pay an unknown and unquantified sum of money because they were a net contributor and you believe they have a legal obligation to pay?

It is not an unknown and unquantified sum of money.  As May says they are going through it line by line as the British people would expect and then that will determine the amount.  A transition period would then cost about another 20 billion and she has already committed to pay that should the EU agree to such a period.

 

You may think that this is unfair but this was always going to be the case.  Something Johnson and the boys avoided telling you.  May has said we will pay the correct amount, it is just a case of what that is.

 

Instead of keeping on about how unfair the EU are being, why are you not furious with the Brexit boys who lied about the facts of Brexit?