Repatriating big money to the US

[steve2112]

i'm selling my house (yes i know it could take forever) but assuming i am successful, my wife is getting half and i'm getting half (you can probably guess that story)

 

should i have the buyer deposit my share into my US account or better into my Thai account and transfer it in smallish lumps, less than $10,000 each?

 

i expect to clear about 5 million baht so about $160,000. i'm worried the IRS will see that and think its capital gain. it's not, i spent over 10 million on the place but its hard to prove that.

 

what do you all think?

 

Hum, i just read another similar thread, someone suggested buying bitcoins in THB and cashing them out in USD

 

 

 

 

Edited October 24, 2017 by steve2112

[recycler]

Some of the bigger money changers are matching supply and demand in various countries, someone will also need Baht in TH and you want Dollars in the US, that way the money never leaves the country.

[david555]

Probably to be continued story....as possible you do not have a FET form proven that you transfered in...

As a foreigber with no working permit i doubt Thai banks let you transfer ...online or by branche...

But thais may transfer abroad ...maybe the wife can help...

 

Many same questions like this are on forums..

 

Edited October 24, 2017 by david555

[chingching]

Better than Bitcoin, buy ethereum,  cheaper fees (15 cents vs $3.00) faster confirmations  2 minutes vs.  30-60 minutes.  

[DrPhibes]

4 hours ago, nongkhaidude said:

If it was your primary residency for 2 of the last 5 years capital gains of up to $400,000 ( or so ) are tax exempt so reporting  it not a problem .

 

you can transfer 50,000 US a day from Thailand with out a any kind of a reason other then personal use 

 

 

Just a bit of a correction, if your personal residence 2 of the last 5 years looking backward from the date of sale, you can uses the 121 exclusion to exclude up to $250,000 of gain ($500,000 if a married joint return).  You can not have used the 121 exclusion within 2yrs of the sale in question for another property.

[NanLaew]

8 hours ago, nongkhaidude said:

you can transfer 50,000 US a day from Thailand with out a any kind of a reason other then personal use

This option is not available to every foreigner.

 

If the OP finds a buyer willing to pay him in the US and completely avoid the arcane Thai banking regulations, that would probably be best.

Edited October 24, 2017 by NanLaew

[steve2112]

21 hours ago, nongkhaidude said:

If it was your primary residency for 2 of the last 5 years capital gains of up to $400,000 ( or so ) are tax exempt so reporting  it not a problem .

 

 

it was, do you mean in Thailand or USA?

thanks

Edited October 25, 2017 by steve2112

[timendres]

Avoid using crypto-currency. As demonstrated many times, these can plummet in value by 20% in a matter of days, which is volatility you can do without. As previously stated by @nongkhaidude you can push $50,000 per day by bank transfer. The sale document from Thailand will be the evidence you provide the IRS regarding the revenue of the sale, and even if the entire amount was considered a capital gain, you should owe no tax.

[dpcjsr]

What ever you do, do NOT send the money back in small amounts under $10000. That will make you suspect of money laundering and the feds will ream you out. The computers will easily detect this. Do NOT. 

[gk10002000]

On ‎10‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 12:39 AM, steve2112 said:

it was, do you mean in Thailand or USA?

thanks

The IRS pubs don't clearly spell out or discuss if the residence is in the USA or abroad, but I don't think it will matter.  Unless, you have been maintaining or claiming some sort of USA physical address for your mail, on your tax returns etc.  Then I would think the IRS would raise an eyebrow on why your "permanent" residency address in Thailand does not match the address you keep filing with the IRS. 

[ELVIS123456]

No idea regarding USA IRS/Tax issues (Aussie).  But regarding getting a large amount of money into a Thailand bank and then transferring in to USA (or any western country), my advice is to go and see one of the International banks (like Citibank) that can set you up with an account here and an account in the other country. That way you can receive the money here in Thai Baht and then later (internal) transfer it all back to the home country bank account will minimum issues (they will know the dos and donts).  Accept big money into a Thai bank (say Bangkok Bank) and you will have big issues trying to transfer it out of the country.  There are many reasons Thai banks dont (cant) operate in western countries - and why so few western banks are 'permitted' to operate in Thailand.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banks_in_Thailand

 

PS - re bitcon etc.  No.  Those in early did OK, now it is the calfs/lambs. 

Edited November 9, 2017 by ELVIS123456

[GinBoy2]

Well my 2 cents on this having done it. Just pay the international wire transfer fee, both Thai & US banks, it'll cost you about $100 for both.

As for the IRS, I had no issue. I had both  the purchase and sale contracts, not that I was ever asked to provide either

[gk10002000]

On 10/24/2017 at 11:43 AM, NanLaew said:

This option is not available to every foreigner.

 

If the OP finds a buyer willing to pay him in the US and completely avoid the arcane Thai banking regulations, that would probably be best.

I have chatted with some UK folks over the years, and that is how they did it, from start to finish it seemed to have avoided a lot of things.

[BuddyDean]

A friend just sent back 9 million to the US...he laid an extra fee of 18,000 THB for it to all go at once.  I did a million about 9 years ago and was told under 20,000 USD was simple, not needing BOT approval, so I did it in two pieces..worked great.  As far as the IRS.... you have a capital gain earned in a foreign country.  You can determine your cost basis, and it isn't hard at all to negate any gain; land office fees, commissions, improvements...transportation to sell it....I don't know if the 2/5 rule applies, and I doubt it would for a foreign property.  You didn't own it anyway...it was a business transaction..great thing about US is no 1099 if selling under the 2/5 rule, but you won't have a 1099 either.  

[twig]

Whether you send it in amounts less than 10k or more, the IRS will ask you about the source of funds to see if they can get a cut, IF you put it into the US banking system.

So, they'll coerce you to tell them either way.

 

If it's all the savings you have, I wouldn't risk losing some of it through Bitcoin's price volatility.

If you run it through Bitcoin, AND put it into the US banking system, the IRS will still ask you source of funds, and require capital gains or loss calculation.

 

You would also have to pay some amount above the Bitcoin's spot price to convert it to Bitcoin - the amount depending on how you do it - and vice versa when you need to convert it back to fiat in US.

 

You could risk some of it by transferring via Bitcoin, as a high risk investment, because you could also gain proportionally to the loss risk.

 

How much you risk, depends on you. Take whatever percentage you are willing to risk or don't need in fiat right away - say 1% - and send it through Bitcoin.

That way you start learning how that system works and can be used safely, because it will be more and more widely used, and you diversify all your other investments by that small percentage.

 

If it were me, I would transfer all of it through Bitcoin, but I worked as a fin-tech consultant. So, I'm more familiar with the safe ways to use the tech than the average person.

Among cryptocurrencies, I certainly wouldn't risk using anything but Bitcoin, because it has the highest liquidity, and least volatility, which is still higher than fiat money.

 

 

[chingching]

Everyone speaks of bitcoin volatility as a curse to be avoided at all costs.  Volatility is a knife that cuts both ways.  I started buying bitcoin at $450 usd, solely as a means to transfer money.   The fees to buy btc were not that much greater or less than the bank fees to transfer fiat, and the currency exchange loss.

 

Let's say you did 10 transfers since 2015,  at random times,  since bitcoin was about 400 then and is about 6500 now,  I'd say the chances are pretty good that the dreaded volatility would  have benefitted you more than hurt you.

If you want to transfer to USD,  great, it's not volatile at all, but you will surely lose 3 or 4 percent per year to inflation.  When you compare that to bitcoin which increased about 7000% this last year.  or gold, which did nothing,  the choice is clear for me.   

[BuddyDean]

Investing in something simply because it is going up is the top sign of a bubble.  It is not going to end well.

[twig]

Another idea is don't repatriate any part of it that you don't need over in the US until you need it.

 

Diversify it geographically into strong currencies or assets. I'm sure folks can advise you, if you don't know where.

 

That gives you a hedge against the USD, in case for example the Orange Hitler and the fat Korean child start some kind of another big commotion "spreading freedom and democracy" vs. "battling US imperialism".

 

Many banks in the strong currency states won't deal with you anymore unless you are a legal resident, on account you're from "the Land of the Free" and the home of the FATCA, but there are other ways than diversifying through the banks.

[simoh1490]

When you sell the house you'll need to transact through the Land Office and tax will have to be paid on the sale. When all of that is done you'll end up with the money from the sale and most importantly and a blue receipt from the Land Office showing that tax has been paid - the receipt will show an amount on which tax has been paid. Take that receipt to any bank in Thailand, along with the money and you can transfer it all in one go, to where ever you want and no questions will be asked. As for the IRS: as long as you can show the purchase and sales contracts, IRS won't say anything either, Capital gains, I can't help you with that.

[BuddyDean]

1 hour ago, simoh1490 said:

When you sell the house you'll need to transact through the Land Office and tax will have to be paid on the sale. When all of that is done you'll end up with the money from the sale and most importantly and a blue receipt from the Land Office showing that tax has been paid - the receipt will show an amount on which tax has been paid. Take that receipt to any bank in Thailand, along with the money and you can transfer it all in one go, to where ever you want and no questions will be asked. As for the IRS: as long as you can show the purchase and sales contracts, IRS won't say anything either, Capital gains, I can't help you with that.

So how does the foreigner own the house in the first place.  You won't get any form with your name on it, that is for sure.  Condo would be different.  I have sold seven homes in the US and was never required to show proof of cost basis.  It is one of the few honor systems still left as they now know what your cost basis for stock sales is.

[watcharacters]

On 10/24/2017 at 6:47 PM, DrPhibes said:

Just a bit of a correction, if your personal residence 2 of the last 5 years looking backward from the date of sale, you can uses the 121 exclusion to exclude up to $250,000 of gain ($500,000 if a married joint return).  You can not have used the 121 exclusion within 2yrs of the sale in question for another property.

 

 

Thanks,    That's more like it but things may change with whatever new tax code is passed by the present POTUS and the congress.

[simoh1490]

8 minutes ago, BuddyDean said:

So how does the foreigner own the house in the first place.  You won't get any form with your name on it, that is for sure.  Condo would be different.  I have sold seven homes in the US and was never required to show proof of cost basis.  It is one of the few honor systems still left as they now know what your cost basis for stock sales is.

The presumption is that the foreigner owns the house indirectly, via n usufruct or via a company, if it is by neither of those means, they don't own the house.

[BuddyDean]

Just now, watcharacters said:

 

 

Thanks,    That's more like it but things may change with whatever new tax code is passed by the present POTUS and the congress.

Highly unlikely to effect 2017...and as stated, a foreigner never owned the house.

[BuddyDean]

1 minute ago, simoh1490 said:

The presumption is that the foreigner owns the house indirectly, via n usufruct or via a company, if it is by neither of those means, they don't own the house.

I own shares of the Empire State Building REIT, but that doesn't make me an owner of it.  I would be taxed on the dividend it pays and any gaining made when I sold the shares.

[watcharacters]

16 minutes ago, BuddyDean said:

So how does the foreigner own the house in the first place.  You won't get any form with your name on it, that is for sure.  Condo would be different.  I have sold seven homes in the US and was never required to show proof of cost basis.  It is one of the few honor systems still left as they now know what your cost basis for stock sales is.

 

I heard your name is on the upcoming ledger, Buddy.     

 

 

Don't spend your gains just yet.

[BuddyDean]

I've got seven years of returns on my thumb drive..they can lick my ---.  You don't even get a 1099, if it is your primary residence on the 2 of five rule, and under the max, however if you get a 1099 and don't declare a cost basis, they will come after you big time.  A guy in CA sold stock for 250,000.....he had paid 350,000, and had a very bad year State of California came after him for the taxes and penalties on the full 250 and started dinging his bank accounts.  Don't think for a minute there is due process on tax levees.

[DrPhibes]

16 hours ago, BuddyDean said:

So how does the foreigner own the house in the first place.  You won't get any form with your name on it, that is for sure.  Condo would be different.  I have sold seven homes in the US and was never required to show proof of cost basis.  It is one of the few honor systems still left as they now know what your cost basis for stock sales is.

If the houses were personal residences and were sold below $250k USD there is no 1099S reporting requirement if you legally swore (in writing) to the escrow company that the code section 121 exclusion of gain on personal residence sale applies to you leading to no gain, so don't have to report on the return.  If they were rental properties, absolutely would be having to show basis info on the return and yes, the IRS does spot audit personal residence and rental property sales requiring basis justification.  A couple of years ago had to pull out my Windows 95 machine (old programs won't run on newer machines so keep several machines at certain Windows versions) and print for a client the rollover form from the old rules where you got one time $125,000 gain rollover to your next personal residence, to justify basis.  The look on the auditors face was gold.