2 Border runs per calendar year period or per country?

[B0nkers]

2 Border runs per calendar year period or per country?

 

I think I have done 2 runs into Vientiane this year already and will need to do another run next month. In Pattaya now, so thinking Cambodia is the way to go.

 

My question is: Am I already maxed out with the 2 runs to Laos, or is it 2 runs per year per country? 

 

If I am maxed out, is my only option to go to another country until 2018 and come back?

 

 

 

Thanks in adavnce

[Thanyaburi Mac]

That's two (2) runs out and in to Thailand via LAND borders.  The limitation doesn't apply to flying, so you could look for a cheapie roundtrip to Singapore or KL, which'd work fine.

 

Mac

 

 

 

[KhunBENQ]

2 minutes ago, Thanyaburi Mac said:

so you could look for a cheapie roundtrip to Singapore or KL, which'd work fine.

Kuala Lumpur absolutely recommended.

Cheap, many flights per day.

[ubonjoe]

It is 2 visa exempt entries per calendar year at any land border crossing. That could be 1 from Laos and 1 from Cambodia.

Your best option is to get a single entry tourist visa.

[B0nkers]

Due to health issues, I can't fly for awhile. Has to be a land run. Am I safe to assume then that 2 land runs per year max combined, regardless of which border it is?

[B0nkers]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

It is 2 visa exempt entries per calendar year at any land border crossing. That could be 1 from Laos and 1 from Cambodia.

Your best option is to get a single entry tourist visa.

So, I can go to Cambodia and come back... but only get 30 days, right?

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, B0nkers said:

So, I can go to Cambodia and come back... but only get 30 days, right?

No

You will not be allowed to enter the country at any land border crossing unless you have a valid visa for entry.

Why don't you make a trip to Vientiane and get a single entry tourist visa. That would allow a 60 day entry that can be extended for 30 days. You apply the morning of one day and pick up your passport with visa in it the next afternoon.

[elviajero]

The entry limit only applies to visa exempt entry (without a visa). You will have two more available from 1st Jan '18.

 

There is no set limit on the amount of times you can enter with a Tourist visa. A Tourist visa, for your next entry, will give you almost 3 months with an extension, and will see you into next year. 

[B0nkers]

Oh, I got this backwards I think. 

 

I thought we were allowed 2x 60 day visas per year using land travel

 

Are you guys saying that 60 day visa is unlimited, plus extension? 

[PoorSucker]

8 minutes ago, B0nkers said:

Oh, I got this backwards I think. 

 

I thought we were allowed 2x 60 day visas per year using land travel

 

Are you guys saying that 60 day visa is unlimited, plus extension? 

Correct, the restriction applies only to visa exempt entries.

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, B0nkers said:

Are you guys saying that 60 day visa is unlimited, plus extension? 

Yes we are.

Only visa exempt entries are limited to 2 a year.

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, B0nkers said:

Oh, I got this backwards I think. 

 

I thought we were allowed 2x 60 day visas per year using land travel

 

Are you guys saying that 60 day visa is unlimited, plus extension? 

Yes.

 

However, you need to be aware that embassies/consulates limit the number of Tourist visas they will issue to you. For example the Embassy in Vientiane will probably only issue you 3/4 before warning you that you might not get anymore visas from them.

 

So living in Thailand long term, using Tourist visas, requires trawling the embassies/consulates in SE Asia to get around the limits.

 

As long as you have a valid visa you should have no problem with unlimited entries.

Edited October 25, 2017 by elviajero

[B0nkers]

OK thanks everyone. My confusion seems warranted as I also did not quite understand the terminology. The immigration lady mentioned to me about the 2 crossings per year rule, so I assumed she was referring to the 60 day tourist visa. As it seems that is not the case, there IS indeed a limitation on that visa that IS dependent on each border and probably at the whim of the office on any given day. It seems there is no written rule known on this.

 

I wonder now, would this warning be for a calendar year? If not, it would seem one would run out of countries eventually that border Thailand to max out their allotted 60 day tourist visa? Maybe give you a couple years stay a best with extensions

[ubonjoe]

46 minutes ago, B0nkers said:

As it seems that is not the case, there IS indeed a limitation on that visa that IS dependent on each border and probably at the whim of the office on any given day. It seems there is no written rule known on this.

There is no limit on entries at land border crossing or by air if you have a valid  visa for entry to the country.

The only limit is on for visa exempt entries at land border crossing.

I think you confused the comment about getting the visas issued at embassies and consulates being limited with entries to the country.

[cmiuc]

Well I don't think it matters by land or air. Recently(this month) my friend flew to Malaysia to get a visa and came back through DMK and was denied entry because he had used up 2 visa runs, over 180 days...

 

My suggestion is to go to the local immigration and go through them or inquire before your visa expires so in case you run into that problem, you can prepare better than my friend who had to go back to Denmark because he was surprised.

[BritTim]

2 minutes ago, cmiuc said:

Well I don't think it matters by land or air. Recently(this month) my friend flew to Malaysia to get a visa and came back through DMK and was denied entry because he had used up 2 visa runs, over 180 days...

 

My suggestion is to go to the local immigration and go through them or inquire before your visa expires so in case you run into that problem, you can prepare better than my friend who had to go back to Denmark because he was surprised.

Using visa exempt entries to enter Thailand via an airport, when you have already spent a lot of time here, is risky. That is especially true if you are deemed of working age, and have just done a quick in/out to receive the visa exempt entry.

 

It is much safer to try to enter with a tourist visa from a consulate, or visa exempt at a land border (assuming you have not exceeded the two per calendar year limit for visa exempt entries by land).

[ubonjoe]

On 10/26/2017 at 7:36 AM, cmiuc said:

Well I don't think it matters by land or air. Recently(this month) my friend flew to Malaysia to get a visa and came back through DMK and was denied entry because he had used up 2 visa runs, over 180 days...

 

I am certain that he does not have a stamp in his passport stating that was the reason for denial of entry since there is no rules to justify it.

He was likely denied entry for lack of financial proof and/or suspicion he was working in the country.

[csabo]

54 minutes ago, BritTim said:

Using visa exempt entries to enter Thailand via an airport, when you have already spent a lot of time here, is risky. That is especially true if you are deemed of working age, and have just done a quick in/out to receive the visa exempt entry.

 

It is much safer to try to enter with a tourist visa from a consulate, or visa exempt at a land border (assuming you have not exceeded the two per calendar year limit for visa exempt entries by land).

He said his friend came to DMK with a visa. 

[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, csabo said:

He said his friend came to DMK with a visa. 

Many people incorrectly call a visa exempt entry a visa.

In fact some people call everything stamped in their passport a visa.

[Wim1954]

18 hours ago, B0nkers said:

Due to health issues, I can't fly for awhile. Has to be a land run. Am I safe to assume then that 2 land runs per year max combined, regardless of which border it is?

The answers are clear it doesn't matter which border you take only 2 times by land and 100 above by air.

[Chaichara]

There is a clear misunderstanding  among  many  expats: A visa is a visa and nowadays it's a big  blue sticker in the passport. A 15-day (land border)  or a 30-day  (airport  arrival)  stamp is NOT  a visa.

FWIW, for  several  years after my  last  Work Permit  expired and until  I  got  a Retirement  Visa, I  was tavelling  to  the UK once a year  and getting a new multiple  entry  Tourist  Visa from  the Thai  consulate in Birmingham which  used to  be issued in  about  20  minutes. Then on  the last  attempt, they  told me they  can't  do  that  anymore there and would have to  send the application  to  the higher auothority , the Thai  Embassy  in  London. London  refused it saying  I  had had too  many  tourist  visas already but  they  would accord me a single entry Tourist Visa but for  the last  time. The guy  at  the Consulate advised me to  do  that  and then get  it  converted to  a retirement  Visa when I  got  back  to  Thailand. Which  worked.

 

[stevenl]

1 minute ago, Chaichara said:

There is a clear misunderstanding  among  many  expats: A visa is a visa and nowadays it's a big  blue sticker in the passport. A 15-day (land border)  or a 30-day  (airport  arrival)  stamp is NOT  a visa.

FWIW, for  several  years after my  last  Work Permit  expired and until  I  got  a Retirement  Visa, I  was tavelling  to  the UK once a year  and getting a new multiple  entry  Tourist  Visa from  the Thai  consulate in Birmingham which  used to  be issued in  about  20  minutes. Then on  the last  attempt, they  told me they  can't  do  that  anymore there and would have to  send the application  to  the higher auothority , the Thai  Embassy  in  London. London  refused it saying  I  had had too  many  tourist  visas already but  they  would accord me a single entry Tourist Visa but for  the last  time. The guy  at  the Consulate advised me to  do  that  and then get  it  converted to  a retirement  Visa when I  got  back  to  Thailand. Which  worked.

 

There is also a clear misunderstanding among many expats about visa and extensions of stay.

[Wim1954]

7 minutes ago, Chaichara said:

There is a clear misunderstanding  among  many  expats: A visa is a visa and nowadays it's a big  blue sticker in the passport. A 15-day (land border)  or a 30-day  (airport  arrival)  stamp is NOT  a visa.

FWIW, for  several  years after my  last  Work Permit  expired and until  I  got  a Retirement  Visa, I  was tavelling  to  the UK once a year  and getting a new multiple  entry  Tourist  Visa from  the Thai  consulate in Birmingham which  used to  be issued in  about  20  minutes. Then on  the last  attempt, they  told me they  can't  do  that  anymore there and would have to  send the application  to  the higher auothority , the Thai  Embassy  in  London. London  refused it saying  I  had had too  many  tourist  visas already but  they  would accord me a single entry Tourist Visa but for  the last  time. The guy  at  the Consulate advised me to  do  that  and then get  it  converted to  a retirement  Visa when I  got  back  to  Thailand. Which  worked.

 

30 days nowadays too at any landborder.

[alex8912]

7 minutes ago, Wim1954 said:

30 days nowadays too at any landborder.

Wrong. Some countries 15 days some 30 some 0. It depends on what country your passport is from. 

Edited October 26, 2017 by alex8912

[Chaichara]

All  that  said, Thailand actually  has some of the most  relaxed requirements in  the world  for  entering  the country for  a short tourist stay. That's why I choose it  as a venue for  some  international  conferences and courses I organise. Try getting  into  Australia or Canada for example, even as a Brit!

[ubonjoe]

14 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

Wrong. Some countries 15 days some 30 some 0. It depends on what country your passport is from. 

It is 30 days for those that are eligible for the standard visa exempt scheme by land or air.

Those that qualify for a visa on arrival get 15 days by land or air.

There are some that get 14 days or 90 days by land or air under a bilateral agreement.

[elviajero]

16 hours ago, Chaichara said:

There is a clear misunderstanding  among  many  expats: A visa is a visa and nowadays it's a big  blue sticker in the passport. A 15-day (land border)  or a 30-day  (airport  arrival)  stamp is NOT  a visa.

The misunderstanding is due to Thailands system. Most people, the world over, consider the permission to stay in a country to be a visa, whether that's a "blue sticker", or a stamp in their passport.

[BritTim]

3 hours ago, elviajero said:

The misunderstanding is due to Thailands system. Most people, the world over, consider the permission to stay in a country to be a visa, whether that's a "blue sticker", or a stamp in their passport.

In that case I am not "most people". For instance, in dealing with US immigration, I refer to an ESTA as an 'ESTA' or 'travel authorization'. I call a 'visa' a 'visa' and an entry stamp an 'entry stamp'.

 

By the way, a visa is not 'permission to stay in the country'. It sometimes virtually guarantees you will be granted permission to enter and stay for some period, but all countries I am aware of make clear that the final decision of whether you are given an entry stamp and allowed to stay is made by the immigration official at the point of entry.

[JackThompson]

On 10/26/2017 at 7:36 AM, cmiuc said:

Well I don't think it matters by land or air. Recently(this month) my friend flew to Malaysia to get a visa and came back through DMK and was denied entry because he had used up 2 visa runs, over 180 days...

If he did, in fact, get a "visa" in Malaysia (Penang or KL), then was denied entry, it would be good to know if he failed to bring along the required 20K Baht in cash or travelers checks.  We only have one report, that I have read, of someone arriving with a valid-visa (i.e. - not trying to enter visa-exempt) + enough cash and being denied entry.  If you have the chance, please ask him to scan what they stamped in his passport, which will show the official reason for denial of entry.

 

On 10/26/2017 at 7:36 AM, cmiuc said:

...My suggestion is to go to the local immigration and go through them or inquire before your visa expires

The local office is only useful for obtaining extensions-of-stay.  They are not a reliable source of information on the rules of entry to the country.  We have seen reports of people being told many inaccurate things.  To clear up confusion on this - if you are from a country that is under the visa-exempt scheme:

• You may obtain 2 Visa-Exempt entries by land each calendar-year - it doesn't matter what land-border to what country you cross - they all count into the same total of two.
• There is no hard-limit on Visa-Exempt entries by air, but these are allowed at the discretion of the officer, and repeat-use - especially back-to-back - will meet resistance/questioning and/or denial of entry.

Entering with a Tourist Visa, there is no legal limit on entries by land or air.  You should carry 20K Baht in cash or travelers checks to show if asked (not on plastic - in your wallet/purse right then and there - no ATM access provided).  Those without a longer-stay history are very unlikely to have any problems at any point of entry, but should carry the required cash as a precaution - since it is a written-rule.

[elviajero]

8 hours ago, BritTim said:

By the way, a visa is not 'permission to stay in the country'. It sometimes virtually guarantees you will be granted permission to enter and stay for some period, but all countries I am aware of make clear that the final decision of whether you are given an entry stamp and allowed to stay is made by the immigration official at the point of entry.

I didn't say that a visa is permission to stay in the country or that it gives permission to enter. I said that most people consider the permission to stay in their passport to be a visa.

Visa

1. an endorsement on a passport indicating that the holder is allowed to enter, leave, or stay for a specified period of time in a country.

An endorsement on a passport comes in several forms. As far as I am aware the majority of countries issue a visa that gives a date by which the holder must leave the country, and an entry stamp confirming permission to enter. Thailand confuse the situation by issuing a visa without that date, and the date you must leave by is stamped in the passport by an IO. A Thai entry stamp or extension of stay stamp is "an endorsement on a passport indication that the holder is allowed to ... stay for a specific time in a country", which apparently is a VISA.

 

When discussing Thailand's visa system it's not helpful to describe an entry stamp/extension of stay stamp as a visa, but by every definition it is.

Edited October 27, 2017 by elviajero