Several people killed by vehicle on New York City bike path

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, impulse said:

 

Perhaps not, but we often see TVF posters advocating shipping them all back home, keeping them all out, or even nuking them out of existence.  Maybe not on this thread, but you don't have to look too hard at the hundreds of previous threads. 

 

And if nobody took up the case for treating them as individuals, good and bad, there would be more.

 

OK, so you were replying to an expected response ?

It may be an idea to wait until someone actually posts that .

Hold fire , until theres a target to aim at

[impulse]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

OK, so you were replying to an expected response ?

It may be an idea to wait until someone actually posts that .

Hold fire , until theres a target to aim at

 

If you see a kid walking next to the highway, do you wait until he's in the road before you say something?

 

A lot of TVF posters seem to have that same playground mentality.  And it's better to let them know in advance they're going to be shamed if they go there.  An ounce of prevention...

 

[Orton Rd]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

A great many Muslims do try and integrate, without compromising their own religious beliefs. I know many that happily live in Western countries and contribute a great deal to their chosen society.

 

The difference is often from which county they or their parents / grandparents originate from and the cultural and social norms from those countries. 

 

There are big differences.

 

Any that won't integrate, show the tolerance and respect for their new host societies should be expelled. And I agree that pandering to "demands" to promote their culture and beliefs as a right forced on the host country is wrong.

To integrate goes directly again Islamic teaching in the Quran, so they would be compromising their religious beliefs.  Therefore, it could be said that those who integrate are not 'real' Muslims at all

[ilostmypassword]

7 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

To integrate goes directly again Islamic teaching in the Quran, so they would be compromising their religious beliefs.  Therefore, it could be said that those who integrate are not 'real' Muslims at all

Since, according to many of the posters, the Koran commands Muslims to kill infidels, then 99.999 percent of Muslims are not "real" Muslims either.

[brewsterbudgen]

I'm NOT an islamophobe by the correct definition. I am not afraid of Muslims but I dislike them. I gave a list of 42 reasons why a long time ago.

Fair enough. I dislike some people too, however, I think the blanket dislike of a whole religion is rather ignorant. I respect (and agree with) your views on Brexit, just wish you'd try harder with your tolerance of other people's beliefs.

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[MaeJoMTB]

58 minutes ago, Caps said:

Or is it the fact that stoning/killing a woman for talking/looking to/at another man is acceptable.

Not sure about looking, but it certainly seems fair for adultery.

[transam]

7 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Since, according to many of the posters, the Koran commands Muslims to kill infidels, then 99.999 percent of Muslims are not "real" Muslims either.

Correct, anyone following a book that outlines the basis of a religion should not pick and choose bits that fit there lifestyle...You either follow it or not...

[DavisH]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Why on earth would I want to do that? Muslims can do what they like in their homelands. In the west they should fully integrate or bugger off

Wha do you mean by "fully integrate" ? 

 

Most Australians should bugger off out of Australia - after all, they didn't fully integrate with the local inhabitants.

 

Indians should bugger off out of the UK, if they can do no more than open an Indian restaurant.

 

US citizens should get out of Thailand if they cannot convert to Buddhism and speak fluent Thai...

 

 

[DavisH]

13 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Since, according to many of the posters, the Koran commands Muslims to kill infidels, then 99.999 percent of Muslims are not "real" Muslims either.

 

Most Muslims are embarrassed by the shenanigans of ISIS and their deranged followers. ISIS is about acquiring power through the Middle East, and has nothing to with Islam, per se.... 

[impulse]

6 minutes ago, transam said:

Correct, anyone following a book that outlines the basis of a religion should not pick and choose bits that fit there lifestyle...You either follow it or not...

 

I don't know of a single Christian that's in favor of stoning an adulterer.  Unless it's the one cheating on him/her.
 

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, DavisH said:

Most Muslims are embarrassed by the shenanigans of ISIS and their deranged followers. ISIS is about acquiring power through the Middle East, and has nothing to with Islam, per se.... 

The Islamic state has nothing to do with Islam ?

You would think that they would call them something else without "Islam" in their name

[MaeJoMTB]

4 minutes ago, DavisH said:

Most Muslims are embarrassed by the shenanigans of ISIS and their deranged followers. 

I'm not convinced, looks to me that most silently support ISIS while paying lip service to peace for the benefit of white liberals.

[MaeJoMTB]

4 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

I don't know of a single Christian that's in favor of stoning an adulterer.  Unless it's the one cheating on him/her.
 

I am ......... DOh ....... you got me on the second bit!

[tubby johnson]

Truck of peace

[impulse]

16 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

I am ......... DOh ....... you got me on the second bit!

 

Yeah, but that's not 'cause they're Christian...

[jvs]

Leviticus 20 ,a little of topic but some posters are talking about this.

 

[i claudius]

 
You mean kind of like the Old Testament where the heroes exterminated everyone in the villages they liberated in the name of God?
 

Thing is that was in the long distant past unlike the muslim faith the rest of us moved on

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[sanemax]

1 hour ago, impulse said:

 

If you see a kid walking next to the highway, do you wait until he's in the road before you say something?

 

A lot of TVF posters seem to have that same playground mentality.  And it's better to let them know in advance they're going to be shamed if they go there.  An ounce of prevention...

 

Errrrm, we are not talking about a kid in the road in a dangerous situation .

Different situation .

You are replying to a non existent post

[ilostmypassword]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

I'm NOT an islamophobe by the correct definition. I am not afraid of Muslims but I dislike them. I gave a list of 42 reasons why a long time ago.

I guess you know better than the Oxford English Dictionary

A person with a dislike of or prejudice against Islam or Muslims, especially as a political force.

‘the group has accused him of being an Islamophobe and a racist’

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/us/islamophobe

[impulse]

3 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Errrrm, we are not talking about a kid in the road in a dangerous situation .

Different situation .

You are replying to a non existent post

 

But the thread hasn't gone off the rails yet, has it?

 

[balo]

Uzbekistan again , weren't the Boston bombers also from Uzbeki ? And they all immigrated to the US after 9/11 . Do you see the connection here ? Young men that grew up as kids when 9/11 happened back in 2001. They believe Jihad is the only solution , why did he come to the US in the first place? To get work and then die as a martyr ?

 

 

[Morch]

8 hours ago, Somtamnication said:

This will never end. Can't fight ideology. RIP

 

Nazis and communists didn't fare all that well. Political and social ideologies are easier to combat than religion. Although there may be similar elements to religion (or rather, organized religion), they tend to rely on rational arguments (even if one doesn't agree), and less on faith.

[brewsterbudgen]

Uzbekistan again , weren't the Boston bombers also from Uzbeki ? And they all immigrated to the US after 9/11 . Do you see the connection here ? Young men that grew up as kids when 9/11 happened back in 2001. They believe Jihad is the only solution , why did he come to the US in the first place? To get work and then die as a martyr ?
 
 

They were from Kyrgyzstan.

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[sanemax]

4 hours ago, nasanews said:

This is has nothing to do with Islam as a religion, this is about an ideology called Wahhabism.

Wahhabisn has everything to do with Islam .

Its Islam in its purest form

[sanemax]

15 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

But the thread hasn't gone off the rails yet, has it?

 

I didnt say that it had .

All I suggested is that you should wait for someone to post something BEFORE you reply to them.

I just dont think that you should reply first , before the post that you are replying to has been posted

[ilostmypassword]

10 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Wahhabisn has everything to do with Islam .

Its Islam in its purest form

I guess then that for over a thousand years, Islam was very impure.

[sanemax]

2 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

I guess then that for over a thousand years, Islam was very impure.

That is what Wahhabists beleive

[Orton Rd]

16 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

I guess then that for over a thousand years, Islam was very impure.

To all Muslims it has always been the pure and unaltered word of God, so when the Quran has 109 verses advocating violence to them that is God talking, and it is not possible to question it. They do all  with it but not all carry out their sick beliefs. The Haddith is another matter but 95% do not question that either so believe Mohammad married a 6 year old and agree with the calls for Jihad in them and sharia punishment and we all know what they are.

[Morch]

8 hours ago, impulse said:

 

You mean kind of like the Old Testament where the heroes exterminated everyone in the villages they liberated in the name of God?

 

 

Standard issue deflection post No. 1. Most other major religions do not currently subscribe to literal application of their ancient creeds. Perhaps most Muslims do not as well, but enough of them do to present a problem.

 

8 hours ago, impulse said:

 

There's a tiny subset of just about every religion out there who will call up ancient texts to justify despicable actions.  Like the KKK and other racists groups throughout their history.  And those guys who bombed the King David Hotel. 

 

Today, it's a tiny percentage of Muslims around the world that get all the press.  But they're certainly not unique.

 

Standard issue deflection post No. 2. Islamic terrorism might not be unique if applying historical perspective, but that doesn't quite relate to the fact that it is a prominent actor on this stage in these times.

 

The gap between the belief systems of, say, ISIS/AQ and widely accepted views prevalent in certain Muslim countries, is not that wide. That's to say, that the differentiation is not always exactly between extremists and moderates, but perhaps between various levels of extremism (some of which are tolerated for a host of reasons) and moderates.

 

And no, the KKK and the King David Hotel (the latter not even being religiously motivated, but eh) examples are localized. Islamic terrorism is global in nature.

 

8 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Or, perhaps it was a reaction to bombing the crap out of, and propping up despotic dictators in, their homelands- which happen to have a higher percentage of one religion?  And making it about religion justifies continuing to bomb the crap out of them and propping up despotic regimes because, unlike those worldly factors that can be addressed, there is no way to deal with religious fanaticism other than to wipe them out?

 

 

Standard issue deflection post No. 3. No, it is not all "our" fault. Not buying a ticket on the faux collective guilt trip, thank you very much. You don't see a whole lot of Hindu international terrorism, African international terrorism, Asian international terrorism, and whatnot. And do go on about propping up "despotic regimes" - wonder what political systems were in place previously. Far as I know, other "despotic regimes", but maybe missed something.

 

Which one is it - Islamic terrorism a group (alright, "tiny minority") misrepresenting Islam, or a political reaction to all them bad bad things the "West" did to their forefathers?

 

7 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Here's the better question:  Divide that number by the world population of each religion and you'll find that filling any 50,000 seat stadium with random people from any given religion will result in less than a dozen terrorists.  Makes it hard to justify blaming (and taking it out on) the whole crowd.   It may be 5 Christians 3 Jews, a few Hindus and 10 Muslims- I don't know.  But the number will look really, really small.

 

You'll have to do your own Googling, though.  Google is blocked where I'm traveling right now, and firing up the VPN really slows things down.

 

Standard issue deflection post No. 4. The "tiny minority" argument. Well, duh. Most terrorist organizations rely on a relatively small number of operatives. And no, not all Muslims are card carrying members of such organizations, and many outright denounce them. Trouble is that, deflections aside, there are also many who embrace them to one degree or another. Enough to make Islamic terrorism an issue, even if some posters do their best to minimize it.

 

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

 

Standard issue deflection post No. 4. The "tiny minority" argument. Well, duh. Most terrorist organizations rely on a relatively small number of operatives. And no, not all Muslims are card carrying members of such organizations, and many outright denounce them. Trouble is that, deflections aside, there are also many who embrace them to one degree or another. Enough to make Islamic terrorism an issue, even if some posters do their best to minimize it.

 

And many more do their best to maximize it. But very few it seems choose to quantify it.