Several people killed by vehicle on New York City bike path

[dunroaming]

12 hours ago, Thaiwrath said:

Another "Allah Akbar" atrocity, and people try to defend these <deleted> ! 

Really? I don't know anyone who would defend these terrorist atrocities.  Some of these people are gullible and easily manipulated and others are hardened committed terrorists.  We have been here before and sadly will be again.

 

The thing I find a little odd here is that the guy didn't have real guns?  We all know only too well that access to guns in the USA is as ridiculously easy.  It appears that this man failed on the first principle of being a terrorist.  They are saying lone wolf but even a lone wolf has to be radicalised.

[Morch]

6 hours ago, KarenBravo said:

Why not skip that part and go straight to Kristalnacht?

 

Why not go for hyperbole?

 

There's enough that can be done to further curtail activities related to radicalization and Islamic terrorism, without going overboard. And to be clear, I do not mean the sort of things @Grouse was on about - which would be more in line with what's posted above.

 

Apply stricter monitoring of religious centers, schools and social media trends. Deal swiftly and harshly with those not playing by the rules. Set clear standards as to what' on and what's not.

[KarenBravo]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Why not go for hyperbole?

 

There's enough that can be done to further curtail activities related to radicalization and Islamic terrorism, without going overboard. And to be clear, I do not mean the sort of things @Grouse was on about - which would be more in line with what's posted above.

 

Apply stricter monitoring of religious centers, schools and social media trends. Deal swiftly and harshly with those not playing by the rules. Set clear standards as to what' on and what's not.

Firstly, I did go with hyperbole.

Secondly, it was a response to grouse.

Thirdly, I agree with everything else you say.

[Morch]

5 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

But it's all of Islam, the killers do not get their inspiration from the readers digest do they. Polls in the UK have found around 50% of Muslims would not turn anyone in that they knew was involved in Jihad

 

No, it isn't. Not unless you consider most Muslims, especially those living among non-Muslims, do not go about massacring their neighbors on a regular basis. Like every religion, many (if not most) do not necessarily follow edicts and teachings to the letter, and some (shocking...) are only superficially or nominally religious. It's not normally an all or nothing proposition.

 

Polls are great, they can show so many things .

[Orton Rd]

11 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Really? I don't know anyone who would defend these terrorist atrocities.  Some of these people are gullible and easily manipulated and others are hardened committed terrorists.  We have been here before and sadly will be again.

 

The thing I find a little odd here is that the guy didn't have real guns?  We all know only too well that access to guns in the USA is as ridiculously easy.  It appears that this man failed on the first principle of being a terrorist.  They are saying lone wolf but even a lone wolf has to be radicalised.

You do not seem to understand the motive of a jihasit, apart from murder of course. They believe what ever sins they have committed to DIE in the cause of Allah is to gain instant VIP treatment in heaven with the 72 virgins, all sins forgiven. The last thing they want is to survive and spend the rest of their lives in prison, he will think he failed big time as the cops did not shoot him dead. The fake guns were just bait with the added- ooh look the cops killed an unarmed man angle.

Edited November 1, 2017 by Orton Rd

[Morch]

5 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

I agree.  "Islamic terrorism" is not objective, any more than saying "Christian terrorism" or "Jewish terrorism" would be.   The BBC is doing its job.

 

It is objective. There are many attacks, by various groups and individuals, often citing similar sources of inspiration and motivations. If attacks were few in number and factors were all over the place, you'd have a point. Until then, it's quite an accurate description, whether people like it or not.

 

[Morch]

5 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said:

But doesn't 'everyone' blame all white folk for slavery? and all white folk for racism? and all white men for rape culture? and all white folk for Hitler?

 

Ummm...no?

[dunroaming]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

Polls are great, they can show so many things .

We all know polls are completely useless but I will quote you one anyway.  90% of police arrests of terrorist suspects in the UK come from information supplied by the Muslim communities.

 

Anyone and their dog can conduct a poll, they mean less than nothing.

[owl sees all]

8 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Good that he wasn't killed. Hopefully he can be of use to the authorities in identifying more terrorists or terrorist cells.

A bit of attitude adjustment at Guantanamo will sort him out; no prob's.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, DavisH said:

Most Muslims are embarrassed by the shenanigans of ISIS and their deranged followers. ISIS is about acquiring power through the Middle East, and has nothing to with Islam, per se.... 

 

2 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said:

I'm not convinced, looks to me that most silently support ISIS while paying lip service to peace for the benefit of white liberals.

 

As discussed on a recent topic, people can say whatever they like about most Muslims thinking this or that - there's no good way of substantiating these sort of claims. And no aggregation of disparate results is conjecture rather than a clear answer.

[Orton Rd]

Must say the Armish, Buddhist and Jain terror attacks seem fairly thin on the ground. This, it's only a few most of them are just like us, what about the Bible/Christians/Crusades is just weak, very weak apologist nonsense. The ideology that causes jihad is Islam and it needs to be tackled and you don't do it with candles, talking to 'moderates' or pretending it's a religion of peace that is not a threat.

[Morch]

3 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

To integrate goes directly again Islamic teaching in the Quran, so they would be compromising their religious beliefs.  Therefore, it could be said that those who integrate are not 'real' Muslims at all

 

Did you just issue a fatwa?

[Morch]

4 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Perhaps not, but we often see TVF posters advocating shipping them all back home, keeping them all out, or even nuking them out of existence.  Maybe not on this thread, but you don't have to look too hard at the hundreds of previous threads. 

 

And if nobody took up the case for treating them as individuals, good and bad, there would be more.

 

 

We should do out best to ignore any underlying common factors related to such attacks, because we wouldn't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

[dunroaming]

11 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

You do not seem to understand the motive of a jihasit, apart from murder of course.

Oh I think my understanding is fine, it's just different to yours.  Maybe we should hold a poll 

[owl sees all]

21 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

They believe what ever sins they have committed to DIE in the cause of Allah is to gain instant VIP treatment in heaven with the 72 virgins, all sins forgiven.

Fatima, my second wife, was a Muslim girl. I asked her why the guys who die for Allah get 72 virgins. She said that with the virgins come 72 mothers-in-law. 

Edited November 1, 2017 by owl sees all

[Morch]

32 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

And many more do their best to maximize it. But very few it seems choose to quantify it.

 

Yes, many do. But my standing position is that efforts at quantifying relevant attitudes and sentiments (even with regard to localized, as opposed to global samples) are questionable on several accounts. We've been over that.

[Morch]

19 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

We all know polls are completely useless but I will quote you one anyway.  90% of police arrests of terrorist suspects in the UK come from information supplied by the Muslim communities.

 

Anyone and their dog can conduct a poll, they mean less than nothing.

 

They are not "completely useless", it's just that often there's a discrepancy between what polls actually check and what is reported or interpreted. That's assuming all the usual pitfalls of the polling process itself were dealt with beforehand.

 

Citing polls without reference is one such way of misusing polls. Without getting into specifics of the above - I'd guess the same description would apply to interrogations in Guantanamo...but obviously not "same same".

[dunroaming]

3 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

They are not "completely useless", it's just that often there's a discrepancy between what polls actually check and what is reported or interpreted. That's assuming all the usual pitfalls of the polling process itself were dealt with beforehand.

 

Citing polls without reference is one such way of misusing polls. Without getting into specifics of the above - I'd guess the same description would apply to interrogations in Guantanamo...but obviously not "same same".

Polls greatly depend on where they are taken who's opinion is given.  Take a Brexit poll in London and the response will be negative.  Take the same poll in the Northeast and it will be very positive.

[watgate]

People don't kill  people. Trucks kill people, Therefore ALL trucks should be banned to prevent this carnage from happening again.

[dunroaming]

1 minute ago, watgate said:

People don't kill  people. Trucks kill people, Therefore ALL trucks should be banned to prevent this carnage from happening again.

Actually people kill people.  Whether it is on a school campus or from a Vegas hotel window or at the Boston marathon.

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Fair enough. I dislike some people too, however, I think the blanket dislike of a whole religion is rather ignorant. I respect (and agree with) your views on Brexit, just wish you'd try harder with your tolerance of other people's beliefs.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

I hate that usage of the word ignorant. I'm am indeed knowledgable of these people and sadly the more I dislike their customs and social mores. Quite happy to leave them alone in Turkey and Indonesia for example but their failure to integrate in the UK grates.

 

For clarity, I'm a Jehovah's bystander and have no time for evangelicals or Orthodox Jews either. At least I'm balanced in my bigotry! 

[owl sees all]

58 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

The thing I find a little odd here is that the guy didn't have real guns? 

He was a fully-paid-up member of the anti-gun lobby. Weapon of choice for him; a truck!!!!

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, DavisH said:

Wha do you mean by "fully integrate" ? 

 

Most Australians should bugger off out of Australia - after all, they didn't fully integrate with the local inhabitants.

 

Indians should bugger off out of the UK, if they can do no more than open an Indian restaurant.

 

US citizens should get out of Thailand if they cannot convert to Buddhism and speak fluent Thai...

 

 

1) don't live in ghettos

 

2) dress according to local custom

 

3) do not insult local sensibilities

 

4) do not cause change to locally accepted systems and procedures

 

and generally do as I say

 

BTW, British Indian restaurants are usually Bangladeshi, Kashmiri or Punjabi.

 

BTW2, I'm talking about contemporary social mores. We don't really care about aboriginal mores thanks.

[ilostmypassword]

27 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Yes, many do. But my standing position is that efforts at quantifying relevant attitudes and sentiments (even with regard to localized, as opposed to global samples) are questionable on several accounts. We've been over that.

Yes, a clear insight into the actual threat as opposed to the magnifying effects of fear and hatred is definitely questionable. We've seen how well ignoring such easy and obvious insights has worked in the recent past.

[tolsti]

16 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Actually people kill people.  Whether it is on a school campus or from a Vegas hotel window or at the Boston marathon.

and that's why we need more driverless vehicles. Please contact Volvo, Tesla etc and ask them how their veHICKles will help. You may well get to write their radio jingle..... " Our cars wont' kill people......

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said:

I guess you know better than the Oxford English Dictionary

A person with a dislike of or prejudice against Islam or Muslims, especially as a political force.

‘the group has accused him of being an Islamophobe and a racist’

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/us/islamophobe

How much Greek do you know?

 

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=islamophobe

 

Do some research before picking an intellectual fight with me. ?

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

Nazis and communists didn't fare all that well. Political and social ideologies are easier to combat than religion. Although there may be similar elements to religion (or rather, organized religion), they tend to rely on rational arguments (even if one doesn't agree), and less on faith.

China?

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

How much Greek do you know?

 

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=islamophobe

 

Do some research before picking an intellectual fight with me. ?

Oh, so, you give the urban dictionary the same authority as the world's leading scholarly dictionary of english? Really?

And anyway, playing etymology to arrive at a definition of a word is a sure way to come a cropper. Take for instance, anti-semite.  By your way of defining a word an anti-semite is some who is against semites. Like arabs. Therefore if you're an anti-semite, you hate arabs. And assyrians. And chaldeans. Some ethiopians. Oh yes, and Jews, too. And maybe not all Jews since there's some dispute about the lineage of some groups. Do you see the problem? Scholars of language understand that many if not most words have a developed sense that more often than not strays from from the original coinage. Language is not mathematics.

Clearly it's not me who should be doing research.

 

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

Why not go for hyperbole?

 

There's enough that can be done to further curtail activities related to radicalization and Islamic terrorism, without going overboard. And to be clear, I do not mean the sort of things @Grouse was on about - which would be more in line with what's posted above.

 

Apply stricter monitoring of religious centers, schools and social media trends. Deal swiftly and harshly with those not playing by the rules. Set clear standards as to what' on and what's not.

Why are you so resistant to banning halal meat? It's barbaric, inhumane and medieval. Why should Western school kids have to eat it? Why pamper to Muslims in prison?

[ilostmypassword]

6 minutes ago, Grouse said:

China?

50 years ago you could just as easily have written Russia?

And anyway, China may pay lip service to Communism but it's more a fusion of private enterpirse and State Capitalism. What's more, it's still early days for China.