Nothing gained in hounding the Shinawatras

[jayboy]

I think you may need to be a little more thoughtful on how you characterise my motives.
 
I was here when thaksin began his campaign of murder, thousands died because of his actions.
 
That is by far his greatest crime and one he should be tried for.
 

So is the answer to my question which you ignore remains outstanding.Ignorance or dishonesty?


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[Bluespunk]

2 minutes ago, jayboy said:

So is the answer to my question which you ignore remains outstanding.Ignorance or dishonesty?


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That isn't a question, it is abuse.

Edited November 1, 2017 by Bluespunk

[jayboy]

I don't know, why not enlighten us all?

Sorry I missed your reply.So it is ignorance on your part and not dishonesty.That clarifies the point.


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[Bluespunk]

8 minutes ago, jayboy said:

 

Sorry I missed your reply.So it is ignorance on your part and not dishonesty.That clarifies the point.


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Nope.

 

To have a point clarified, you have to make a point.

 

Hurling abusive insults is not making a point.

Edited November 1, 2017 by Bluespunk

[mfd101]

1 hour ago, nausea said:

I suspect The Nation can get away with these kind of articles cos it's an English language newspaper, might as well be in ancient Klingon so far as most Thais are concerned.

 

Surprisingly well-written too, in REAL English. Only a native speaker could do that, I think.

Edited November 1, 2017 by mfd101

[halloween]

32 minutes ago, jayboy said:

Quite so.But why didn't it happen? There were plenty of opportunities to pin him down but the elites remained silent - even now - while pursuing him on relatively trivial charges.Why do you think that is? Is it ignorance or dishonesty that keeps you silent on this critical point?

But who is displaying it? Thaksin's absence has prevented him being charged with most of his serious crimes, a situation now being remedied by new legislation. Were you not aware of that vfacet of Thai law which prevented criminals being charged in absentia?

[jayboy]

No they don't get a pass, they are simply irrelevant to the criminals being discussed. If you choose to believe that the coup cost the country more than the rice scam, or that the Shinawatras didn't profit from that scam, up to you. Many others believe things that defy logic.
Any study of the rise and fall of Apichart, a favoured criminal given enormous levels of preferential treatment, involved in every level of the rice scam and G2G scam and now serving a very long sentence, would indicate otherwise.

You repeat the lie the Shinawatras benefited.The state prosecution didn’t even make this claim.If you have any details which can be verified please provide them.Otherwise don’t make up stuff.

Incidentally your excuse of other cases being irrelevant doesn’t make sense.You made a general proposition about what should happen to criminal politicians.When presented with examples that dont fit in with your case, you dismiss them as irrelevant.


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[Eric Loh]

Slim pickings nowadays for junta supporters and have to resort on flogging a dead horse and trying to instigate something out of nothing. Pitiful attempt. 

[halloween]

4 minutes ago, jayboy said:

 

You repeat the lie the Shinawatras benefited.The state prosecution didn’t even make this claim.If you have any details which can be verified please provide them.Otherwise don’t make up stuff.

Incidentally your excuse of other cases being irrelevant doesn’t make sense.You made a general proposition about what should happen to criminal politicians.When presented with examples that dont fit in with your case, you dismiss them as irrelevant.


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The topic is the 'hounding' of the Shinawatras, and I see no reason to discuss other politicians because you would like to. My opinion that blatantly corrupt politicians enriched themselves by favouring criminal cronies is far closer to the truth than your blanket denial, backed only by that they have not been prosecuted, yet.

[jayboy]

But who is displaying it? Thaksin's absence has prevented him being charged with most of his serious crimes, a situation now being remedied by new legislation. Were you not aware of that vfacet of Thai law which prevented criminals being charged in absentia?

There were plenty of opportunities to charge Thaksin before his exile which were ignored.Still if you have evidence that under the new legislation Thaksin is to be charged with the Drugs War please provide it.If this is not yet known we can but wait and see.If he is charged with it I will issue a groveling apology.If he is not then we can take it you reciprocate and acknowledge your blinkered prejudice and refusal to face facts.


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[halloween]

6 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Slim pickings nowadays for junta supporters and have to resort on flogging a dead horse and trying to instigate something out of nothing. Pitiful attempt. 

Yeah, right, B500 billion worth of nothing.

[Eric Loh]

2 minutes ago, halloween said:

Yeah, right, B500 billion worth of nothing.

It went into the wider economy, taxes and duties. The farmers can't keep that under their pillows and hidden in their rice jars. 

[halloween]

2 minutes ago, jayboy said:

 

 

There were plenty of opportunities to charge Thaksin before his exile which were ignored.Still if you have evidence that under the new legislation Thaksin is to be charged with the Drugs War please provide it.If this is not yet known we can but wait and see.If he is charged with it I will issue a groveling apology.If he is not then we can take it you reciprocate and acknowledge your blinkered prejudice and refusal to face facts.


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I made no mention of the drugs war. I do expect him to be charged with the KTB scam and promoting terrorism, far more serious charges than he has faced so far.

 

[LaoPo]

Brave piece of journalism.

 

It shows a new era has started, it's all a matter of time, like the end of all previous junta's, all over the world, including Thailand.

[champers]

13 minutes ago, LaoPo said:

Brave piece of journalism.

 

It shows a new era has started, it's all a matter of time, like the end of all previous junta's, all over the world, including Thailand.

Unfortunately, here there is a tradition of repeating all over the same process. When this junta goes, start counting the days for the next one to appear.

[jayboy]

1 hour ago, halloween said:

I made no mention of the drugs war. I do expect him to be charged with the KTB scam and promoting terrorism, far more serious charges than he has faced so far.

 

So you didn't have the drugs war in mind drugs as a serious crime ! Rather odd since across all shades of opinion that was by far Thaksin's greatest criminal abuse.

 

I wonder what possibly could have been the reason for your unaccountable lapse in memory.

[LaoPo]

36 minutes ago, champers said:

Unfortunately, here there is a tradition of repeating all over the same process. When this junta goes, start counting the days for the next one to appear.

True, but there's an end to all country-junta's, all over the world and the next 2 or 3 decades (a drop in the ocean, time wise) but probably sooner, the people of Thailand will rise again and stop this dictator kind of non-wanted rulerships.

 

After all Thailand already had "democratic" chosen leaders but the people were not yet up to it to fight them and remove them.

That will come, no doubt but it will take a long time.

 

As long as the average man in the street is happy with an increasing higher income and a new car/house/wife/mia noi he's not up to politics...yet.

[hawker9000]

52 minutes ago, LaoPo said:

True, but there's an end to all country-junta's, all over the world and the next 2 or 3 decades (a drop in the ocean, time wise) but probably sooner, the people of Thailand will rise again and stop this dictator kind of non-wanted rulerships.

 

After all Thailand already had "democratic" chosen leaders but the people were not yet up to it to fight them and remove them.

That will come, no doubt but it will take a long time.

 

As long as the average man in the street is happy with an increasing higher income and a new car/house/wife/mia noi he's not up to politics...yet.

"next 2 or 3 decades (a drop in the ocean, time wise) but probably sooner, the people of Thailand will rise again and stop this dictator kind of non-wanted rulerships."

 

Not a chance, and you have absolutely no historical evidence to support the conjecture.   Oh, there'll be a cycling through regimes, but the political dynamics are common throughout the region, define the boundaries and limits, and will remain in place indefinitely.   There'll be "elections", but it's pure fantasy to cast that as "the people rising".

[LaoPo]

8 minutes ago, hawker9000 said:

"next 2 or 3 decades (a drop in the ocean, time wise) but probably sooner, the people of Thailand will rise again and stop this dictator kind of non-wanted rulerships."

 

Not a chance, and you have absolutely no historical evidence to support the conjecture.   Oh, there'll be a cycling through regimes, but the political dynamics are common throughout the region, define the boundaries and limits, and will remain in place indefinitely.   There'll be "elections", but it's pure fantasy to cast that as "the people rising".

 

Well, look upon history over the past 100 years...300 years if you wish and see what happened to countless countries and their regimes, all replaced by democratic systems.

 

It will happen in SE Asia as well, including our beloved Thailand. 

Look at the history here....and you will see that the bumps in Thailand's history are quite severe and that is a signal, spreading out over decades that the systems in place were not accepted anymore by other greedy rulers...taking over.

I'm looking into the future, based on those bumps.

 

But, you're correct, I've no historical evidence like yours, which is based upon the past junta's but you're mistaken to take it for granted that this idiotic junta fed system will continue forever.

 

It will not.

 

 

[thaiguzzi]

4 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Thaksin should be pursued for the rest of his life for the extra judicial murders carried out during his “war on drugs” propaganda campaign. 

Pursued by who? The Thais?

Outside of Thailand - nobody is interested. Certainly if it was that big, that relevant, that important, that dastardly, we'd have the Hague and war crime type people on the case. In 20 years time nobody is going to prosecute Duterte in the Phillies. From outside the Phillies.

[Psimbo]

7 hours ago, ezzra said:

Boggles the minds how such powerful law enforcement agency such

as the Interpol and others can seems to locate a high profile fujitives

such as Mega rich boy and ex PM, who must be traveling with entourage

of helpers and lackeys using legal traveling documents, airlines, hotels

and other public services, and all are using no doubt social media..

the only other explanations is that the people that are 'looking' for them,

not really interested in finding them, and only makes the

appropriate noises for public consumption...

That's better- Boy mentioned within 3 posts. Keep up the good work. 

[jayboy]

I made no mention of the drugs war. I do expect him to be charged with the KTB scam and promoting terrorism, far more serious charges than he has faced so far.
 

By the way good luck with that “terrorism” charge you have conjured up.For better or worse that label never sticks in Western democracies when requests are made for extradition.




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[Krataiboy]

the slow and quiet murder of democracy in Thailand

 

A phrase which perfectly sums up the situation on a day General Prayuth announced did not believe the country was "orderly" enough for him to allow the resumption of political activity.

 

The deafening silence which has followed this typically arrogant statement shows how effective has been the military junta's tactic of treating the Thai people a bunch of army recruits who need licking into shape.  

 

More than three and a half years of being bossed from pillar to post has brainwashed a historically bolshie electorate into meek acquiescence. 

 

This is worrying enough. What is arguably more so is the many Thais are content to remain supine accessories to the "quiet murder of democracy". They seem happy to trade traditional rights and freedoms for the relative calm which has blanketed the nation since the ban on political activism. 

 

Clearly, with the major political parties - sidelined for so long - in disarray,  political opportunity  is knocking for the Generals. If, as has been rumoured, they were to form a party and contest the 2018 election, who would bet against them winning on a "law and order" ticket?

Edited November 1, 2017 by Krataiboy

[baboon]

4 hours ago, AGareth2 said:

maybe he should

but he isn't being hounded

Why is that?

For a start it was approved at the very top. Secondly, it isn't just him you would need to stick in the dock - how many of those killed died by his hand personally? So now you have a whole host of other defendants and their stories to investigate, a good number who wear camouflage. And if they too have to go down, why not take a few with them? The whole thing would be an utter sleazy mess and even the junta wouldn't be stupid enough to think otherwise. 

Edited November 1, 2017 by baboon

[LaoPo]

10 minutes ago, thaiguzzi said:

Pursued by who? The Thais?

Outside of Thailand - nobody is interested. Certainly if it was that big, that relevant, that important, that dastardly, we'd have the Hague and war crime type people on the case. In 20 years time nobody is going to prosecute Duterte in the Phillies. From outside the Phillies.

 

Re:  “war on drugs” propaganda campaign."

 

Some time ago there was a convicted drugs smuggler on Television who was interviewed about he time he did in Bangkok Hilton which was many years. He admitted he was guilty as heck.

 

BUT...he also mentioned that in the PRE War on Drugs campaign it was dead easy to buy and trade all kinds of drugs inside the prison.

When Thaksin's campaign started...drugs were gone inside prison, forever (I have no idea how that is today though) but it says something about drugs in this country.

 

Drugs kill more people than we ever know.

 

Has anyone see the docu's about life in present Phillies prisons....holy moly.....it worse than in Thailand I think.

 

 

 

 

[Bluespunk]

36 minutes ago, thaiguzzi said:

Pursued by who? The Thais?

Outside of Thailand - nobody is interested. Certainly if it was that big, that relevant, that important, that dastardly, we'd have the Hague and war crime type people on the case. In 20 years time nobody is going to prosecute Duterte in the Phillies. From outside the Phillies.

Matters to me and my post was just my response to the 'why bother chasing him' article.

 

Mass murder is a valid reason for pursuing someone.

 

As to no one outside of Thailand being interested, plenty of international bodies have reported on this example of extra judicial murder. 

 

That would imply interest. 

Edited November 1, 2017 by Bluespunk

[jayboy]

3 hours ago, halloween said:

The topic is the 'hounding' of the Shinawatras, and I see no reason to discuss other politicians because you would like to. My opinion that blatantly corrupt politicians enriched themselves by favouring criminal cronies is far closer to the truth than your blanket denial, backed only by that they have not been prosecuted, yet.

That is the topic certainly but it was you that made the general assertion about criminal politicians.You then became testy when I pointed out your very selective and frankly hypocritical criteria.

[Jonah Tenner]

4 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

The pattern of democracy disruption by the establishment and the military in the last decade with the same modus operandi can't fool the foreigners.

 

Thaksin elected > PAD > coup > junta government > election > Samad > judiciary coup/PAD >Somchai > PAD >Junta government > UDD > election > Yingluck > judiciary coup/PDRC > caretaker government > coup > junta government.

 

Even the blind can see the obvious. 

None so blind as those who will not see. 

Some people are not willing to see even what is obvious to any reasonably sane person.

[sawadee1947]

Wow, such a clear description of Thailand! Congrats. Hope PM will read it though he will refuse to acknowledge

[MaxLee]

10 hours ago, webfact said:

Nothing gained in hounding the Shinawatras

 

Never ever bothered with it