Yingluck will have to make case of persecution for political asylum

[Goomantoong]

If the Thai powers to be wanted her in Thailand she wouldn't have been granted bail in the first place.  They wanted her gone, and to stay gone. 

 

[wavemanwww]

A law that is internationally and purposely so vague that all corrupt country leaders can us it. Whilst at the same time use their ill gotten gains whilst the poor get poorer! They must think the poor are stupid!

 

Speaking of stupid. The rich killer and the poor dead cop. Where is Red Bull boss? <deleted>. Thailand government doing a sterling job!

[Monomial]

3 hours ago, HHTel said:

And there lies the problem if the Thai government seeks extradition.  As far as the UK is concerned (and most other countries),  she has not committed any crime.  'Negligence' is not a crime in the UK.

 

Neglect of fiducial responsibility is a crime in nearly every country. That is not the issue. The issue will come down to whether or not they consider her prosecution for the crime criminal or political.

 

[smutcakes]

11 hours ago, leeneeds said:

Nicaraguan passport holder, she is,

shows what contempt she has for that country if no asylum is sought there,

obnoxious money 

 

Has she got a Nicaraguan passport? 

[smutcakes]

3 hours ago, jayboy said:

Your language is - to put it politely - not very precise.Do you have evidence for these accusations or is it just your personal opinion of what is likely.If the former please provide authoritative links.If the latter that's fine (though daft) but in future make it clear what is your opinion and what is verifiably true.

Yes all these billions of baht, yet the Government, the banks and every measure at their disposal can not locate one baht. As if they have not tried to find the smoking gun money trail to TS. 

[al007]

Delighted for the  lady, if persecution, is required for asylum, then surely it is guaranteed for her

 

As someone else said she and family have enough financial clout to get permanent residency in the UK in any case

 

She has had a tough period is the last few years

 

I wish her happiness, and hope she can build a new life that suits her

 

Money does also help

[metisdead]

A post bringing the Royal family into the discussion has been removed as per this forum rule:

 

1) You will not express disrespect of the King of Thailand or any one member of the Thai royal family, whether living or deceased, nor to criticize the monarchy as an institution.

By law, the Thai Royal Family are above politics. Speculation, comments and discussion of either a political or personal nature are not allowed when discussing HM The King or the Royal family.

To breach these rules may result in immediate ban.

Linking to external sites which break these rules will be treated as if you yourself posted them.

 

 

A nonsense post was removed as well. 

[wavemanwww]

7 minutes ago, metisdead said:

A post bringing the Royal family into the discussion has been removed as per this forum rule:

 

1) You will not express disrespect of the King of Thailand or any one member of the Thai royal family, whether living or deceased, nor to criticize the monarchy as an institution.

By law, the Thai Royal Family are above politics. Speculation, comments and discussion of either a political or personal nature are not allowed when discussing HM The King or the Royal family.

To breach these rules may result in immediate ban.

Linking to external sites which break these rules will be treated as if you yourself posted them.

 

 

A nonsense post was removed as well. 

I respect that. Will not do again as I respect him very much.

[HHTel]

1 hour ago, Monomial said:

 

Neglect of fiducial responsibility is a crime in nearly every country. That is not the issue. The issue will come down to whether or not they consider her prosecution for the crime criminal or political.

 

I would check that if I were you.  As far as I can make out that doesn't fit the bill with respect to Yingluk's 'crime'

[JAG]

1 hour ago, smutcakes said:

Yes all these billions of baht, yet the Government, the banks and every measure at their disposal can not locate one baht. As if they have not tried to find the smoking gun money trail to TS. 

They need to engage a forensic  accountant. With a vivid imagination....

[Gunna]

13 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

Seems like she would have no problem. She was removed from office in a military coup.

Another liar repeating the above  BS.

 

The court deemed the transfer unconstitutional and therefore, removed Yingluck from office.                                           A few weeks after Yingluck was impeached, the military coup of 2014 occurred.

 

Please do not keep posting the lie that she was removed from office by the military coup.  

[wakeupplease]

12 hours ago, jayboy said:

I don't think she will apply for political asylum.From her point of view she doesn't need to because it's a long tedious process that she doesn't really need to get involved with.She can stay in the UK without it - so what's the point.

 

From the UK's point of view granting political asylum might seem like pissing off a friendly state (Thailand).

 

 

From the UK's point of view granting political asylum might seem like pissing off a friendly state (Thailand).

 

You call it a friendly state after all the deaths, rip off's and human rights abuses against the likes of Andy Hall, Jonathon Head, Ian Rance and hundreds more, you must be joking.

 

The UK should openly give her asylum as that would send the message that some here need to learn. I just hope the West do not backtrack as that sends the message this lot have lived on for donkeys years and why the place is in such a mess.

 

100.000 signatures is all that is required to get it debated in the UK parliament, that should be easy to get with a nice website, I know someone who could make the time to do it.

[Monomial]

1 hour ago, HHTel said:

I would check that if I were you.  As far as I can make out that doesn't fit the bill with respect to Yingluk's 'crime'

 

Then you make out wrong because that is what she was convicted of.

 

Quote

Section 157. Wrongful Exercise of Duties

 

Whoever, being an official, wrongfully exercises or does not exercise any of his functions to the injury of any person, or dishonestly exercises or omits to exercise any of his functions, shall be punished with imprisonment of one to ten years or fined of two thousand to twenty thousand Baht, or both.

 

This section, of which she was convicted, specifically refers to statutory and fiducial responsibilities, not "negligence".

 

Edited November 5, 2017 by Monomial

[robblok]

6 hours ago, jayboy said:

Your language is - to put it politely - not very precise.Do you have evidence for these accusations or is it just your personal opinion of what is likely.If the former please provide authoritative links.If the latter that's fine (though daft) but in future make it clear what is your opinion and what is verifiably true.

We all have our opinions her of what is likely, and given the links between her brother and the rice trader this is highly likely. 

 

Why do I need links to prove this do i need a link to prove that water is wet too ?. You seem to be able to give your opinions why can't I and this is something that is highly likely. Now you can argue it is not and I can argue it is and neither of us can prove it. We can only prove that she was criminal negligent and this proven in a court of law. 

 

We all know that what can be proven in court is almost always less as what has happened for real because of what is required as evidence. So don't act that innocent even you know that this is a fact. They got Capone on tax charges but nobody believes he is innocent of all the other crimes it just could not be proven. Get the point. What has happened and what can be proven in a court of law are often 2 totally different things.

[jayboy]

We all have our opinions her of what is likely, and given the links between her brother and the rice trader this is highly likely. 
 
Why do I need links to prove this do i need a link to prove that water is wet too ?. You seem to be able to give your opinions why can't I and this is something that is highly likely. Now you can argue it is not and I can argue it is and neither of us can prove it. We can only prove that she was criminal negligent and this proven in a court of law. 
 
We all know that what can be proven in court is almost always less as what has happened for real because of what is required as evidence. So don't act that innocent even you know that this is a fact. They got Capone on tax charges but nobody believes he is innocent of all the other crimes it just could not be proven. Get the point. What has happened and what can be proven in a court of law are often 2 totally different things.

So working through this sludge of verbiage one deduces that your original accusation is simply your own bizarre and frankly uninformed opinion ( not even her political enemies have ever suggested personal dishonesty) and without any evidence or proof.Shame on you.


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[andersonat]

11 hours ago, gamini said:

Fake gov - gov rice deals is hardly a case of persecution. Most posters appear to have been in Thailand a short time because they do not realise the case against her started before the coup and she was not removed by the junta

 

 

I would suggest that [at the time] she was removed from the position of Prime Minister by the collective will of those people who then-as-now actually run this country.

 

 

[snowgard]

Thaksin isn't wanted on the Interpol website  and his sister not too.

But the Red Bull .....

 

https://www.interpol.int/notice/search/wanted/(Nationality)/309/(current_age_maxi)/100/(search)/1

 

[HHTel]

7 hours ago, Monomial said:

 

Then you make out wrong because that is what she was convicted of.

 

 

This section, of which she was convicted, specifically refers to statutory and fiducial responsibilities, not "negligence".

 

I understand that it was a breach of fiducial duties.  However, English law is quite complex on this issue.  I agree that by allowing the 'fake' G2G transaction, she failed in her duties, it would have to be proven that by so doing she had a conflict of interest.  i.e. she was able to profit at the expense of others.  That has already been proved as not being the case.  It would be very difficult, if not impossible,  to fit her 'crime' into the fiducial laws of England.

[robblok]

10 hours ago, jayboy said:

 

So working through this sludge of verbiage one deduces that your original accusation is simply your own bizarre and frankly uninformed opinion ( not even her political enemies have ever suggested personal dishonesty) and without any evidence or proof.Shame on you.


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No shame.. i brought in enough likely facts here. Shame on you to deny the possibility.  But not so strange given your a red fanboy. 

- Who thought up the rice program... Thaksin.... check

- Connection between Sia Piang and Thaksin ... check

- Boonsong does not want to disclose who ordered him to do the G2G deals (guess who that would be) 

- YL knew about the fake G2G deals but did not stop them (double check proven in court of law)

- Sia Piang made a great deal of money on the fake G2G deals (double check proven in court of law)

 

 

Easy reasoning why YL did not stop it is that Thaksin received kickbacks... why else let corruption go on if you don't benefit from it.

 

All not hard to see.. only if your blind to the truth, no shame needed for simple reasoning and as I stated.. hard to prove so they went for the easier charge. Your incredibly naive if you think Thaksin did not benefit from this. 

[Kieran00001]

On 11/5/2017 at 5:06 AM, Briggsy said:

All moot, she will get a visa through investment. But an interesting hypothetical discussion.

 

Where can you get an investment visa with outstanding criminal charges?

[Srikcir]

3 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Where can you get an investment visa with outstanding criminal charges?

In a democratic country when criminal charges evolve out of a military coup controlled government lead by the accused that has yet to request Interpol to issue a red card for the person's arrest or request extradition?

Just a guess.

[Monomial]

5 hours ago, HHTel said:

I understand that it was a breach of fiducial duties.  However, English law is quite complex on this issue.  I agree that by allowing the 'fake' G2G transaction, she failed in her duties, it would have to be proven that by so doing she had a conflict of interest.  i.e. she was able to profit at the expense of others.  That has already been proved as not being the case.  It would be very difficult, if not impossible,  to fit her 'crime' into the fiducial laws of England.

 

Actually, no. There does not have to be a conflict of interest or personal benefit. That is only where you acting in an agency relationship. This would be more similar to that of a trustee, who is obligated to act in the best interest of the beneficiary. The trustee does not have to personally gain to be in breach of their fiduciary duties. They only need to be shown to be acting in the interest of a party other than the beneficiary, or failing to take reasonable action to protect the interests of the beneficiary.

 

I don't see much chance that a defense of innocence will work here. She is guilty even under UK law. Her best bet is to push forward with the argument that her prosecution was political rather than criminal.

 

Edited November 6, 2017 by Monomial

[AGareth2]

1 hour ago, Monomial said:

She is guilty even under UK law

Guilt is decided by a court in the UK

not by a TV poster!

[Monomial]

1 hour ago, AGareth2 said:

Guilt is decided by a court in the UK

not by a TV poster!

 

Fine. Good to see pedantics is alive and well. It is very possible to fit her crime into the fiducial laws of England.

 

[jayboy]

 
Fine. Good to see pedantics is alive and well. It is very possible to fit her crime into the fiducial laws of England.
 

Interesting.Thanks for the background on which I was hazy.Incidentally is there a distinction between fiducial and fiduciary?

My main comment would to be suggest that the discussion ignores the fact that this was a policy campaigned upon in a democratic election and implemented by a legitimate government.

Are heads of government bound in a trustee like arrangement with the electors so they can be punished for incompetence/carelessness?

Even so, I’m not very sure that the criminal courts in England would ultimately take the purist line you suggest - not least because it would place both Blair and Cameron behind bars.




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[Kieran00001]

5 hours ago, Srikcir said:

In a democratic country when criminal charges evolve out of a military coup controlled government lead by the accused that has yet to request Interpol to issue a red card for the person's arrest or request extradition?

Just a guess.

 

In the UK, for example, she would have to provide a criminal record check from Thailand, nothing to do with Interpol.

[halloween]

3 hours ago, jayboy said:

 

Interesting.Thanks for the background on which I was hazy.Incidentally is there a distinction between fiducial and fiduciary?

My main comment would to be suggest that the discussion ignores the fact that this was a policy campaigned upon in a democratic election and implemented by a legitimate government.

Are heads of government bound in a trustee like arrangement with the electors so they can be punished for incompetence/carelessness?

Even so, I’m not very sure that the criminal courts in England would ultimately take the purist line you suggest - not least because it would place both Blair and Cameron behind bars.




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Do you have have proof that both Cameron and Blair failed to carry out their fiduciary responsibilities, or is this your unsupported opinion?

 

Failing to stop G2G deals proven to be fraudulent was never part of the PTP election policy, it was never accepted by the voters, and I strongly suspect the legitimacy of a government whose members carry out such actions and a leader who refuses to act to stop the deals.

[jayboy]

Do you have have proof that both Cameron and Blair failed to carry out their fiduciary responsibilities, or is this your unsupported opinion?
 
Failing to stop G2G deals proven to be fraudulent was never part of the PTP election policy, it was never accepted by the voters, and I strongly suspect the legitimacy of a government whose members carry out such actions and a leader who refuses to act to stop the deals.

I don’t want to appear impolite but I’m waiting for a response from someone who seems to know what he’s talking about.


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[JAG]

 

5 hours ago, jayboy said:

 

...snip...

Even so, I’m not very sure that the criminal courts in England would ultimately take the purist line you suggest - not least because it would place both Blair and Cameron behind bars.




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On the other hand, perhaps....

Edited November 6, 2017 by JAG

[leeneeds]

On 11/5/2017 at 6:01 PM, smutcakes said:

Has she got a Nicaraguan passport? 

I can not find her photo but she has one, if I find it I send to you