Gunman opens fire at Texas church, killing at least 20

[Ruffian Dick]

1 minute ago, lannarebirth said:

 

All true, but I'll bet he could still buy a gun pretty easily given the loopholes that exist. 

Yep, pretty sure it's still possible to buy a gun at a Texas gun show off the books, no strings attached.

[lannarebirth]

Just now, Ruffian Dick said:

Yep, pretty sure it's still possible to buy a gun at a Texas gun show off the books, no strings attached.

The "Craigslist" for guns. Over 5,000 listings for guns and accessories in my state alone.

 

http://www.armslist.com/classifieds/search?location=washington&category=all&page=1&posttype=7&ships=False

[thaihome]

Texas does not require background checks for gun show purchase.

TH

 

Gun Show Background Checks State Laws

Known as the "gun show loophole," most states do not require background checksfor firearms purchased at gun shows from private individuals -- federal law only requires licensed dealers to conduct checks.

http://www.governing.com/gov-data/safety-justice/gun-show-firearms-bankground-checks-state-laws-map.html

[FritsSikkink]

9 hours ago, FreddieRoyle said:

Interesting to see the left blaming conservative Christian NRA members for the Texas shooting, even though Christians were killed by a liberal atheist who was stopped by an NRA member. Any excuse to politicize a tragedy...

Which you just did.

[Curt1591]

On 11/6/2017 at 1:59 PM, mikebike said:

Except for a small thing called facts.

 

Statistically you are much more likely to kill or injure yourself or a family member than to thwart an intruder.

Actually, in the States, guns are used quite often in personal defense, hundreds of thousands, if not millions of times per year. It's just that we don't necessarily shoot and kill the perps. So, it doesn't make the news. 

But, don't take my word for it. Read what those quacks at the CDC have to say:
 

https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/cdc-study-use-firearms-self-defense-important-crime-deterrent

Yes, there is the old argument "gun in the home is more likely to kill a friend, a family member, or someone you know". The thing is that most killings aren't "random" and most know their victims or killers ......

 

[Curt1591]

On 11/8/2017 at 6:01 PM, buick said:

 

the NRA cannot be contained, maybe someone will correct me but they may be the most powerful lobby group in america.  the republicans and democrats keep blocking legislation, the reps block what the dems want and the dems block the reps want (and sometimes one or two flip to the other side to make a point, like mccain did recently).  i forget the legislation item (for lack of a better word), but a number of years ago another guy crossed the line from dem to rep, i think it was joe lieberman.

 

look at this 'obamacare', obama made some effort to do something.  it didn't really work out all that well.  but it can probably work with some tweeks here and there.  but no, the reps just care about repealing/eliminating anything that obama did.  most politicians don't think about the american people.  they only think about themselves and their party.

 

 

Re: The NRA - "that nasty old gun lobby" 

Actually, this year, they rank somewhere around 150 in the list of top spenders.

 

Re: The ACA, or "Obamacare". A look at the top spenders might give some idea who is behind it, why it was passed, and why it won't go away. All it does is guarantee that everyone will pay the extortionist medical costs that exist in the States.

https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php?indexType=s&showYear=2017

And, take a look at #10! Talk about insidious... The organization, representing those who are supposed to be the watchdogs of our government, pay the government to gain influence !?!

[notmyself]

57 minutes ago, Curt1591 said:

Re: The NRA - "that nasty old gun lobby" 

Actually, this year, they rank somewhere around 150 in the list of top spenders.

 

 

It's very true that the NRA don't spend anywhere near as much as many others but they are a powerful lobby group as their members are very very active and so punch way above their weight as a voting block.

 

People do things for various reasons so while personal gain by way of money and/or power is one reason... fear is another. It would be suicidal to forget that the gun manufactures behind the NRA can legally sell weapons to those who may object to the stance of a Governor or some such on gun regulation. 

 

 

[Curt1591]

6 minutes ago, notmyself said:

 

It's very true that the NRA don't spend anywhere near as much as many others but they are a powerful lobby group as their members are very very active and so punch way above their weight as a voting block.

 

People do things for various reasons so while personal gain by way of money and/or power is one reason... fear is another. It would be suicidal to forget that the gun manufactures behind the NRA can legally sell weapons to those who may object to the stance of a Governor or some such on gun regulation. 

 

 

The NRA actually does spend much more on its activism than straight lobbying. But, so do all the other groups. 

The lawmakers don't fear being shot by gun advocates. They fear their demise at the polls. People forget that the USA not only consists of the west coast and the east coast. Unfortunately, for them, there is  that troublesome rest of the country. 

 

[buick]

3 hours ago, Curt1591 said:

Re: The NRA - "that nasty old gun lobby" 

Actually, this year, they rank somewhere around 150 in the list of top spenders.

 

Re: The ACA, or "Obamacare". A look at the top spenders might give some idea who is behind it, why it was passed, and why it won't go away. All it does is guarantee that everyone will pay the extortionist medical costs that exist in the States.

https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php?indexType=s&showYear=2017

And, take a look at #10! Talk about insidious... The organization, representing those who are supposed to be the watchdogs of our government, pay the government to gain influence !?!

that is a very interesting list.  thank you for that data.  the healthcare thing is totally out of control.  what a mess.

 

isn't the real power behind the NRA their ability to deliver votes for the republican party (rather than lobby $$) ?  they can deliver a pretty large voting block for a national election.  and i'm guessing the spouse, offspring, and/or parents of an NRA member would be influenced to vote the same way as the NRA member does (hopefully not at gunpoint !!).

 

edit - sorry i didn't read some other responses first.  i now see one member has suggested the voting block thought.

Edited November 11, 2017 by buick

[William T]

On 11/9/2017 at 7:30 AM, FritsSikkink said:

Here is a thought:

It sickens me when i hear these Americans speaking about God and prayers for the victims of these shootings. God is supposedly going to come and comfort the families of the dead. Where was god when the shootings started, why did he not strike down the shooters if he is so all powerful. .

Edited November 11, 2017 by William T

[William T]

Fox News and the NRA lackeys who appear there have a distorted logic.

They say if the sales of automatic weapons was restricted, these 'terrorists' would just hire a truck and kill people that way.

 

So therefor there is no point in restricting assault weapons , just let them continue to massacre people with guns.

Edited November 12, 2017 by William T

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed. 

[Jingthing]

So Americans are powerless to improve things because of the culture of American society? Perhaps so, but nobody should give up that easily. 

[buick]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

So Americans are powerless to improve things because of the culture of American society? Perhaps so, but nobody should give up that easily. 

i'm an american, 51 years old.  the issues debated today, are generally the same ones debated 25 years ago.  that is my entire adult life to date.  gun control as an example.  some progress was made when they banned ownership of certain guns.  but it really didn't solve the problem.  there are 3 other big issues that have followed the same trend (i won't list them to stay on topic).  how many more years do i need to go before it is okay to 'give up' ?  i can tell you i gave up 10 yrs ago  !! 

[Curt1591]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

So Americans are powerless to improve things because of the culture of American society? Perhaps so, but nobody should give up that easily. 

I'm afraid that, as a whole, "America" gave up a long time ago. 

I am old enough to have watched "Bonnie and Clyde" and "Easy Rider" as first run movies in theaters. I remember that, after both of those, the audience was silent when exiting. Everyone was stunned by the "violent" endings. "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" cut to audio only for the massacre of Butch and Sundance ending.

Today, thanks to DVDs and cable, little kids watch limbs blown off, heads explode, and blood running like rivers.

Growing up, my family watched "Make Room For Daddy", "Andy Griffith Show", and many variety shows like "Ed Sullivan".

 

Today it's sex, violence and "reality" TV. 

Now, I don't believe that the media "promotes" sex and violence. I do, however, think that it simply makes it seem like "normal", everyday stuff. You know, ... REALITY!

Edited November 12, 2017 by Curt1591

[dave_boo]

17 hours ago, Curt1591 said:

I'm afraid that, as a whole, "America" gave up a long time ago. 

I am old enough to have watched "Bonnie and Clyde" and "Easy Rider" as first run movies in theaters. I remember that, after both of those, the audience was silent when exiting. Everyone was stunned by the "violent" endings. "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" cut to audio only for the massacre of Butch and Sundance ending.

Today, thanks to DVDs and cable, little kids watch limbs blown off, heads explode, and blood running like rivers.

Growing up, my family watched "Make Room For Daddy", "Andy Griffith Show", and many variety shows like "Ed Sullivan".

 

Today it's sex, violence and "reality" TV. 

Now, I don't believe that the media "promotes" sex and violence. I do, however, think that it simply makes it seem like "normal", everyday stuff. You know, ... REALITY!

Funny thing is that there is currently a 0.2 per 100,000 reduction in the murder and non-negligent manslaughter rate compared to 1965

And that's the closest it's been in 50 years.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts have been removed.