6 Year waiver is up. What can I do?

[Neeranam]

On 10/11/2017 at 7:58 AM, Preacher said:

It was always the policy that persons who have been teaching in Thailand since before 2003 can get a teaching license based on that. Does that policy no longer exist?  You do would need to do the infamous Thai Cultural course, but that is it.

Only if you had a license from a govt. school

[Neeranam]

Jim jim, buy your boss a nice new year's present, there are ways Thais fix problems like this, usually involving a basket of horrible Chinese nest drinks with a few thousand baht hidden inside. If they want you, they can keep you. If they are not willing to keep you, they will use this as an excuse to get rid of you, but remember you are still due severance under the labour law.

[MrPatrickThai]

On 11/10/2017 at 11:27 AM, digger70 said:

Well you should have known that it wouldn't last,maybe it is time to look for a REAL Job,,,,Easy street has a dead end,,,,,

Low self-esteem eh? What do you do for a living?

[pearciderman]

11 hours ago, mommysboy said:

The situation in reality is not so clear cut.  Most Thai managers will immediately state that a License/ waiver is legally mandatory.  Even private institutions such as the weekend schools believe the same.  They are explicitly informed of this by the authorities and though the law - or at least one part of it- states differently, mostly it is not interpreted this way.

 

Sorry, but you are wrong - it is totally clear. Only schools that fall under OBEC require their teachers to have a licence. As I said, universities come under OHEC and so do not require licences. 

 

Remember that it is called "Krusapa", (spelling) and that "Kru" means teacher, whereas at universities the lecturers are called "Ajarn" which means professor.

[smotherb]

16 hours ago, mommysboy said:

 

You say this but surely there is a distinction between state qualified/certified teacher and what most teachers in Thailand do: teach English as a second language and usually just conversational English.  The latter only really requires that the teacher be suitably qualified with a CELTA or equivalent.

 

Incidentally, I now know a few teachers who are working full time informally.  Currently there is an amnesty of sorts, but after the new year there could be that most rare of things in Thailand: a crackdown!

I said it in general for all teachers. Of course, there may be exceptions, but planning on being an exception is another kind of foolishness.

[MrPatrickThai]

4 hours ago, pearciderman said:

 

Sorry, but you are wrong - it is totally clear. Only schools that fall under OBEC require their teachers to have a licence. As I said, universities come under OHEC and so do not require licences. 

 

Remember that it is called "Krusapa", (spelling) and that "Kru" means teacher, whereas at universities the lecturers are called "Ajarn" which means professor.

Not true. Khru is an old word that many university lecturers prefer to be called, and ask their students to call them, "kru"

[mommysboy]

9 hours ago, pearciderman said:

 

Sorry, but you are wrong - it is totally clear. Only schools that fall under OBEC require their teachers to have a licence. As I said, universities come under OHEC and so do not require licences. 

 

Remember that it is called "Krusapa", (spelling) and that "Kru" means teacher, whereas at universities the lecturers are called "Ajarn" which means professor.

I speak from experience, but this is Thailand, I guess.

 

I'm not contradicting your understanding of the law, which is of course correct, but rather the understanding of the Thais involved.  At the uni I taught at they insisted they must apply for a teacher's license, and it was the same for 3 friends of mine who worked at similar establishments.

Edited November 14, 2017 by mommysboy

[mommysboy]

5 hours ago, smotherb said:

I said it in general for all teachers. Of course, there may be exceptions, but planning on being an exception is another kind of foolishness.

Yes, but we're mostly TEFL teachers, aren't we?

[pearciderman]

5 hours ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Not true. Khru is an old word that many university lecturers prefer to be called, and ask their students to call them, "kru"

 

Not a single lecturer at my university is called Kru, they are ALL called Ajarn.

[pearciderman]

1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

I speak from experience, but this is Thailand, I guess.

 

I'm not contradicting your understanding of the law, which is of course correct, but rather the understanding of the Thais involved.  At the uni I taught at they insisted they must apply for a teacher's license, and it was the same for 3 friends of mine who worked at similar establishments.

 

Well, 12 foreign teachers over the years at my uni, and not one has ever had to deal with TCT or licences/waivers.

[MrPatrickThai]

8 minutes ago, pearciderman said:

 

Well, 12 foreign teachers over the years at my uni, and not one has ever had to deal with TCT or licences/waivers.

I worked at a uni for  over 10 years and never needed any license.

[MrPatrickThai]

10 minutes ago, pearciderman said:

 

Not a single lecturer at my university is called Kru, they are ALL called Ajarn.

You'll find that "ajarn" is a term of respect given by others. Many humble teachers prefer to be called "kru" as it means a lot more. Any kinda teacher is called ajarn if they are respected, ie. tennis coaches, singing teachers. 

 

And by the way, it is kuru sapa, not kru sapa.

[smotherb]

1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

Yes, but we're mostly TEFL teachers, aren't we?

If you think only a single course without prerequisite costing a pittance and taking a few weeks is going to be sufficient for a career, go for it.

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, pearciderman said:

 

Well, 12 foreign teachers over the years at my uni, and not one has ever had to deal with TCT or licences/waivers.

 

I'm telling the truth though.  Perhaps it varies according to the type of university- I worked at one of the Rajabat campuses.

 

As I said it is not so much about the law, but who is interpreting it.

Edited November 14, 2017 by mommysboy

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, smotherb said:

If you think only a single course without prerequisite costing a pittance and taking a few weeks is going to be sufficient for a career, go for it.

 

It's not in Thailand; that's for sure.  So the rest is merely for the interest of discussion. 

 

I know other countries also require a degree, but how many demand progression beyond that to such an extent.  When I took my CELTA in England, there was a prerequisite of education up to A level as I recall, and the cost in 2001 was about a thousand pounds.  It was a demanding course imo, and of course it had a strong practical element.

 

I have a friend from the UK, who has carved a career in TEFL from the CELTA, and only that.  He has worked in Spain, UK, China, and Poland.  He can do that because that is the required qualification. 

 

I have more, but don't see myself as any different from him.  We are TEFL teachers- nothing more or less.

[Slip]

On 11/11/2017 at 10:10 AM, Scott said:

Please don't misconstrue my remarks to think that I, in any way, support the way many of the schools have or are handling the situation with licensing and employing teachers. 

 

Many schools have done very little to help good teachers and loyal employees to become fully legal and qualified to teach.   Some will not amend the school times, dates or schedules to accommodate those trying to better themselves and the profession, even when such changes could be accomplished with little or no inconvenience to the school.  

 

The onus, of course, is on the teacher in the end, but schools and the country can only benefit from it.   Sadly, they have chosen not to in many, many cases. 

 

 

I found out today that the salary cap at our place has been dropped a third.  They have a number of teachers who have been there for about 15 years, but I don't see how they will be able to do that in the future.  They either have no concept of how remuneration, benefits and conditions affect supply or they don't care.  This is one of the better establishments upcountry.

On 11/11/2017 at 3:33 PM, Rhys said:

 

Sadly many not all, are becoming more selective.. .as it is a buyer market...   However, when you reach 60 then the fun begins... as they may show you the door.

I really disagree with your comment I'm afraid.  There are few degreed NES around nowadays.  7 years ago 75% of teachers at my place were NES, today that has dropped to less than 20%

On 11/13/2017 at 8:44 PM, Neeranam said:

Only if you had a license from a govt. school

I must dispute that too, sorry- I am grandfathered and I did that at a private OBEC school.

Edited November 14, 2017 by Slip

[pearciderman]

11 hours ago, mommysboy said:

 

I'm telling the truth though.  Perhaps it varies according to the type of university- I worked at one of the Rajabat campuses.

 

As I said it is not so much about the law, but who is interpreting it.

 

Nope, it does not matter one iota.

 

(I also work at a Rajabhat).

[mommysboy]

8 hours ago, pearciderman said:

 

Nope, it does not matter one iota.

 

(I also work at a Rajabhat).

I checked some time ago to make sure my mind wasnt playing tricks, and sure enough the record is there that I had a teaching license.

 

The point I am making is that whatever the rules are- and I don't doubt you are 100% right - the appropriate authority or the liaison officer at the establishment may not interpret them that way.  This was a good few years ago mind, perhaps it was at one of those transition times that seem to crop up every few years.

 

That's a rather infuriating facet of Thailand in general.

 

 

[jenny2017]

On 11/14/2017 at 12:43 PM, MrPatrickThai said:

Not true. Khru is an old word that many university lecturers prefer to be called, and ask their students to call them, "kru"

Not true. University lectures are usually called Ajarn, while primary and high school teachers are Khun Kru.

 

   Also monks are called Ajarn. 

[ozmeldo]

On 11/16/2017 at 9:12 AM, jenny2017 said:

Not true. University lectures are usually called Ajarn, while primary and high school teachers are Khun Kru.

 

   Also monks are called Ajarn. 

 

I don't believe any teacher out of humility would call themselves Ajarn.

 

University teachers - Ajarn

High School, Primary - Khru

 

In addressing a high school teacher you should use Ajarn (honorific). If a Thai teacher calls you Ajarn, you're doing something right. Keep doing it 555. That's respect.

 

Never call yourself or use Ajarn in email or anything about yourself. It's totally lame.

[Neeranam]

56 minutes ago, jenny2017 said:

Never call yourself or use Ajarn in email or anything about yourself. It's totally lame.

There used to be a few posters here with user names, "ajarn ...".

Same as never calling yourself khun....

 

Whities don't fit into the social system usually. 

Khru is rarely used with a foreigner as it means more than ajarn, in a few different ways.

 

In my university they have wai Khru day.

Edited November 18, 2017 by Neeranam

[jenny2017]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

There used to be a few posters here with user names, "ajarn ...".

Same as never calling yourself khun....

 

Whities don't fit into the social system usually. 

Khru is rarely used with a foreigner as it means more than ajarn, in a few different ways.

 

In my university they have wai Khru day.

Whities are also called Khun Kru, but "Kru" is lower than an Ajarn. 

 

  The right wording in Thai for the whities is : "Khun Kru Dangchaad"

 

    The Wai Kru Day is at all schools, not only at universities. The day is for the students to show respect to their teachers, which can't be wrong.

 

  To add: The Wai kru is done at all educational institutions from primary up to tertiary level. 

 

  And lectures, even monks, are called Ajarn. 

 

  

Edited November 18, 2017 by jenny2017

[Neeranam]

38 minutes ago, jenny2017 said:

Whities are also called Khun Kru, but "Kru" is lower than an Ajarn. 

 

  The right wording in Thai for the whities is : "Khun Kru Dangchaad"

 

    The Wai Kru Day is at all schools, not only at universities. The day is for the students to show respect to their teachers, which can't be wrong.

 

  To add: The Wai kru is done at all educational institutions from primary up to tertiary level. 

 

  And lectures, even monks, are called Ajarn. 

 

  

In 22 years in the Thai educational system, I've never heard a whitey being called that.

[jenny2017]

35 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

In 22 years in the Thai educational system, I've never heard a whitey being called that.

  It can happen that little kiddies accidentally call you "Khun Kru Farang", happened to me.

 

   And the Khun Kru Dangchaad only means Mr/Mrs. foreign teacher. 

 

     Could you please ask your Thai colleagues? 

 

  The Khun Kru Dangchaad will only be used when let's say the Thai head of the English department talks about us in a meeting with the director. 

 

  Of course would a Thai teacher not call you so, if he/she doesn't have to.  

   

Edited November 18, 2017 by jenny2017

[Scott]

Racist post and replies removed.  

[brewsterbudgen]

 
It's not in Thailand; that's for sure.  So the rest is merely for the interest of discussion. 
 
I know other countries also require a degree, but how many demand progression beyond that to such an extent.  When I took my CELTA in England, there was a prerequisite of education up to A level as I recall, and the cost in 2001 was about a thousand pounds.  It was a demanding course imo, and of course it had a strong practical element.
 
I have a friend from the UK, who has carved a career in TEFL from the CELTA, and only that.  He has worked in Spain, UK, China, and Poland.  He can do that because that is the required qualification. 
 
I have more, but don't see myself as any different from him.  We are TEFL teachers- nothing more or less.

A CELTA or Trinity TESOL will normally be enough for a TEFL career, although, like in Thailand, many employers will require a degree as well. A quick look through the worldwide job vacancies on TEFL.com shows what is required in most countries.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[ozmeldo]

A TEFL is not required for employment or licencing. Two decades of a tsunami of teachers and not even one TEFL joint has emerged as a quality edumacashun provider. I think a solid TEFL month might be good for those who had little or no experience with public speaking and are a bit introverted.  Craigslist is littered daily with scam offers.

 

CELTA and Trinity might be a plus for EU but the CELTA is at it's core, teaching adults. It's expensive education that will not bring you a high salary nor put you solidly on top of you have weaknesses as a candidate (ex: mediocre demo). IMO waste of money.

 

Teachers need something like a Master's, PGCE, PGDE, DipTEd. Five year license and many of the better schools are asking for these as they know our waivers are drying up. Many of these schools also are willing to pay more as well 50-80k

Edited November 19, 2017 by ozmeldo

[brewsterbudgen]

5 minutes ago, ozmeldo said:

A TEFL is not required for employment or licencing. Two decades of a tsunami of teachers and not even one TEFL joint has emerged as a quality edumacashun provider. I think a solid TEFL month might be good for those who had little or no experience with public speaking and are a bit introverted.  Craigslist is littered daily with scam offers.

 

CELTA and Trinity might be a plus for EU but the CELTA is at it's core, teaching adults. It's expensive education that will not bring you a high salary nor put you solidly on top of you have weaknesses as a candidate (ex: mediocre demo). IMO waste of money.

 

Teachers need something like a Master's, PGCE, PGDE, DipTEd. Five year license and many of the better schools are asking for these as they know our waivers are drying up. Many of these schools also are willing to pay more as well 50-80k

It depends what you're going to teach!  A CELTA or Trinity TESOL is internationally recognised as a TEFL qualification, as most TEFL teaching around the world is for adults.  An extension for young learners (CELTYL) can be taken if you want to focus on young learners.   If you have a PGCE or equivalent, you're qualified to teach more than just TEFL.  

[mommysboy]

6 hours ago, ozmeldo said:

A TEFL is not required for employment or licencing. Two decades of a tsunami of teachers and not even one TEFL joint has emerged as a quality edumacashun provider. I think a solid TEFL month might be good for those who had little or no experience with public speaking and are a bit introverted.  Craigslist is littered daily with scam offers.

 

CELTA and Trinity might be a plus for EU but the CELTA is at it's core, teaching adults. It's expensive education that will not bring you a high salary nor put you solidly on top of you have weaknesses as a candidate (ex: mediocre demo). IMO waste of money.

 

Teachers need something like a Master's, PGCE, PGDE, DipTEd. Five year license and many of the better schools are asking for these as they know our waivers are drying up. Many of these schools also are willing to pay more as well 50-80k

 

It's because, unlike most countries, there does not seem to be an appreciation of the difference between state qualified teacher and ESL instructor; many on this forum (not you) seem to struggle with the difference too.  Perhaps many think this way because their experience is Thai-centric. But if you think about it, this basic failure to understand the difference is the heart of the confusion, and it is the Thais that are out of step with USA, UK, Oz, etc.  The two are quite distinct in the UK- an ESL instructor can not step foot inside a state school, and there again it is perfectly possible to teach in an appropriate establishment with just a CELTA.

 

TESL establishments are simply ancilliary to main schools, are optional, or vocational specific.  They provide a useful, but limited role that the national curriculum can not provide.  Arguably, ESL teachers are better equipped to teach in these environs, because of the more casual approach, and also because the CELTA is a vocational qualification.

 

I'm puzzled as to why the Thai authorities think that a farang with a post graduate qualification would then decide to stay within the state system. He/she would still not be recognized as a state school teacher, and would undoubtedly be falling well short of the wage levels the new qualifications would indicate.  Logic would dictate that someone with a PGCE for instance, would be seeking employment at an international school, rather than slogging away for chump money.  Thus, all that is achieved is that a teacher is lost, and no doubt replaced by a newcomer less qualified and experienced.  Moreover, because this teacher may have nothing but a degree, he may be no teacher at all!

[onlycw]

Let's level the playing field and have TCT target all these fake "degrees". Yes, I have had job applications where even the CVs were copied and pasted. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/28/the-true-story-of-the-fake-us-embassy-in-ghana