EU wants Brexit money this month, Davis seeks 'political' fix

[rooster59]

EU wants Brexit money this month, Davis seeks 'political' fix

By Jan Strupczewski and Alastair Macdonald

 

Britain's Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union David Davis gestures as he adresses a joint news conference with European Union's chief Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier (not on the picture) after the latest round of talks in Brussels, Belgium November 10, 2017. REUTERS/Eric Vidal

 

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - The European Union told Britain on Friday to spell out what it will pay Brussels for when it leaves the bloc in 2019 or face more delay in talks on future trade ties that are vital for British business.

 

After negotiations in Brussels, the first in a month, Brexit Secretary David Davis said during a news conference with his EU counterpart Michel Barnier it was time for "political discussions" to break a deadlock that has left both sides frustrated about a lack of progress.

 

"Political" talks has in the past been code for Prime Minister Theresa May addressing fellow EU leaders directly, over the heads of Barnier and the EU executive, in order to square a circle in which Brussels will not address the future without a firm line from London on settling what the EU sees as past debts and May will not settle without assurances about future trade.

 

May is due at a Brussels summit on Dec. 14-15 but EU officials insist that any breakthrough must be agreed at lower level first and weeks in advance to let the other 27 members agree a joint position. Progress in December is important for May as businesses seek clarity by the new year, when many will take investment decisions dependent on conditions after Brexit.

 

A British budget due on Nov. 22 will, however, complicate the task for May in persuading hardline Brexit supporters of any need to meet Brussels' demand for tens of billions of euros to cover liabilities incurred in 44 years of EU membership.

 

Barnier stressed that he was not looking for a number from London but for a clearer undertaking than May gave in September on how far Britain would "honour its obligations".

 

"It is absolutely vital if we are to achieve sufficient progress in December," Barnier told reporters, adding not all details had to be settled but there needed to be "sincere and real progress".

 

The clarifications should come within the next two weeks, Barnier said: "If that's not the case, then we will continue and that will pull back the opening of discussions on the future."

 

"POLITICAL DISCUSSIONS"

 

He said progress had to be made on all three key issues of the divorce talks - the money, the rights of EU citizens in Britain and how to avoid a "hard border" with EU-member Ireland.

 

Davis said both sides made substantial technical progress on all the issues that need to be addressed. "This is now about moving into the political discussions that would enable both of us to move forward," he said.

 

British discussions with other national governments do not appear to have breached the unity of the 27 for now. And German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President Emmanuel Macron, the bloc's most powerful leaders, have taken a particularly tough line on the money issue in Brussels.

 

The EU executive has said Britain will owe it around 60 billion euros when it leaves. London has challenged the legal reasoning behind that but has not offered its own figure.

 

One thing that was clarified on Friday was exactly when Britain would leave the Union. The EU had previously defined "Brexit hour" as "midnight" on March 29, 2019, exactly two years after May triggered the process. But it was unclear whether that meant midnight in Brussels or London.

 

May and Barnier made statements on Friday stating that Brexit will happen in London at 11 p.m. (2300 GMT) on Friday, March 29. That will be midnight in the EU capital.

 

Davis repeated the declaration made by May in September in Florence that EU countries will not need to pay more or receive less for the remainder of the current EU long-term budget ending in December 2020: "The UK will honour the commitments we made during the period of our membership," he said.

 

Barnier said both sides moved ahead on citizens' rights and that Britain gave "useful" clarifications on a process through which EU citizens could obtain a "settled status" but the EU needed reassurances on how such a system would work.

 

He said issues related to family reunification, the right to export social security benefits and the role of the European Court of Justice still need work.

 

On the problems of avoiding a "hard border" between the British province of Northern Ireland and EU-member Ireland, Davis and Barnier said more work must be done.

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-11-11

[Dagnabbit]

There should be nothing to pay.

Sent from my SM-A720F using Tapatalk

[Rancid]

So Britain is learning about how a PC divorce works?

[whatsupdoc]

1 hour ago, Dagnabbit said:

There should be nothing to pay.

Sent from my SM-A720F using Tapatalk
 

No pensions, no commitments that were already made?

[bangkokheat]

dont give the blood sucking vampires anything

[terryw]

If May offers a ridiculous sum to appease the EU then her Premiership is finished.

 

If the UK offered 80 million Euros tomorrow then by the end of the week the EU will demand 100 million.

 

The only solution is to ask the International Court at the Hague to arbitrate.

[whatsupdoc]

2 minutes ago, terryw said:

If May offers a ridiculous sum to appease the EU then her Premiership is finished.

 

If the UK offered 80 million Euros tomorrow then by the end of the week the EU will demand 100 million.

 

The only solution is to ask the International Court at the Hague to arbitrate.

From the OP :

Barnier stressed that he was not looking for a number from London but for a clearer undertaking than May gave in September on how far Britain would "honour its obligations".

[naboo]

The comedy nightmare rolls on.

[Khun Han]

But remainers keep telling us that it's not about the money. That our contribution is just a drop in the ocean. That the EU doesnt need our money.

[Khun Han]

16 minutes ago, terryw said:

If May offers a ridiculous sum to appease the EU then her Premiership is finished.

 

If the UK offered 80 million Euros tomorrow then by the end of the week the EU will demand 100 million.

 

The only solution is to ask the International Court at the Hague to arbitrate.

 

I seem to remember the EU's court backing away from this issue a while ago.

[phantomfiddler]

They should owe us money for saving them from the evil germans, who should also get a bill for all the broken windows !

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, phantomfiddler said:

They should owe us money for saving them from the evil germans, who should also get a bill for all the broken windows !

Aren't you embarrassed posting such nonsense 

[Srikcir]

3 hours ago, terryw said:

The only solution is to ask the International Court at the Hague to arbitrate.

Might not be viable option.

European Journal of International Law, Volume 23, Issue 1, 1 February 2012, Pages 141–153,

It might be replied that arbitration operates by consent; the parties to the dispute have agreed to remove their dispute from the EU legal system and thus there is no problem. But if states may not by their own agreement disrupt the homogeneity of EU law, then it is unclear why individual litigants may agree to do the same thing.

https://academic.oup.com/ejil/article/23/1/141/525583

 

[dunroaming]

1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

But remainers keep telling us that it's not about the money. That our contribution is just a drop in the ocean. That the EU doesnt need our money.

Really?  I have never said that and I am a remainer.  We all have our own view of the reality of the UK's relationship with the EU.

 

Is it true that the EU are putting pressure on the Brits knowing they are in chaos?  Yes of course it is.  Why should they play softball when the Brits are trying to play hardball.  Is it fair?  No but things like this never are.  Everyone is fighting for the most they can get.  Are the EU holding all the cards?  Not quite but certainly most of them.

 

I hope the leave voters are happy with the way things are going because for the remainers it is a nightmare!

[aright]

Hard ball and soft ball don't come into it both sides are playing win ball. Negotiations have nothing to do with fairness if they did we would have the Archbishop of Canterbury batting for us.

[FritsSikkink]

7 hours ago, whatsupdoc said:

No pensions, no commitments that were already made?

They paid enough over the years.

[dunroaming]

17 minutes ago, aright said:

Hard ball and soft ball don't come into it both sides are playing win ball.

And you can't have both sides winning can you?  But you can have both sides losing and that is what we are heading for.

[RuamRudy]

7 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

And you can't have both sides winning can you?  But you can have both sides losing and that is what we are heading for.

And there will be no conciliatory handshake at the end if that happens. 

[overherebc]

Why is the EU so desperate for money from UK?

I honestly don't know.

Have deals been done behind closed doors on money promised to other countries in the EU to cover/partially cover the cost of accepting a certain number of immigrants from ( other places )

If and when Brexit is complete obviously the UK will not be part of the 'you must accept ××× thousand a year stipulation' and those such decisions made by persons no-one actually voted for.

As your bog standard joe soap I don't know, just a thought thrown out there.

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Why is the EU so desperate for money from UK?

I honestly don't know.

Have deals been done behind closed doors on money promised to other countries in the EU to cover/partially cover the cost of accepting a certain number of immigrants from ( other places )

If and when Brexit is complete obviously the UK will not be part of the 'you must accept ××× thousand a year stipulation' and those such decisions made by persons no-one actually voted for.

As your bog standard joe soap I don't know, just a thought thrown out there.

I think this is a good analogy - imagine going to a restaurant with your friends and agreeing to order a big spread of food for you all to share. After you have had the starter, you then decide to leave, but want to pay only for the starter that you have eaten. Your friends, on the other hand, point out that the mains were ordered collectively, on the assumption that you would all eat them. It is only reasonable, is it not, that you pay for the food you ordered even if you subsequently decide that you don't want to eat it?

[nahkit]

6 hours ago, whatsupdoc said:

From the OP :

Barnier stressed that he was not looking for a number from London but for a clearer undertaking than May gave in September on how far Britain would "honour its obligations".

From the OP:

" The EU executive has said Britain will owe it around 60 billion euros when it leaves. "

[dunroaming]

28 minutes ago, nahkit said:

From the OP:

" The EU executive has said Britain will owe it around 60 billion euros when it leaves. "

Seems to fluctuate between 40 and 60 billion Euros.  Britain initially offered 20 billion but said they would negotiate from there.  Apparently it is not the actual amount they are arguing about rather than what is agreeable on the breakdown of the charges.

[Khun Han]

3 hours ago, dunroaming said:

Really?  I have never said that and I am a remainer.  We all have our own view of the reality of the UK's relationship with the EU.

 

 

I didn't say 'all' and I didn't name you. I'm pretty sure you've read recent posts by Ilostmypassword in these discussions, so you know what I'm talking about.

 

3 hours ago, dunroaming said:

Is it true that the EU are putting pressure on the Brits knowing they are in chaos?  Yes of course it is.  Why should they play softball when the Brits are trying to play hardball.  Is it fair?  No but things like this never are.  Everyone is fighting for the most they can get.  Are the EU holding all the cards?  Not quite but certainly most of them.

 

The main reasons why the EU is in the position it's in and behaving the way it's behaving are the disruption to the UK's negotiating position by a Labour party that will say and do anything to get into power, and leading remainers who have undermined the government at every turn in the hope of stopping brexit, For them, a poor deal would be a self-fulfilling prophecy (a bit like in Thailand, where the army backs one particular set of troublemakers, and then says 'we can't allow this government to continue: there's too much trouble'). If people had got behind the government, the UK would be in a much stronger negotiating position.

 

3 hours ago, dunroaming said:

I hope the leave voters are happy with the way things are going because for the remainers it is a nightmare!

 

I'm still happier than if the government had sold the brexit vote out.

[Dagnabbit]

10 hours ago, whatsupdoc said:

No pensions, no commitments that were already made?

 

Which pensions of EU citizens do we need to pay?

 

Our own ex-politicians (like Kinnock) - will no longer be a burden on Europe. So we don't have to pay his pension. 

 

What about the UKs share of the assets the EU owns? Do you know the value of those?

 

Perhaps you could outline the specific payments you think should be made. After all, my own 'bugger all' was presented itemized and in full. Yours lacks detail to the point of being less than vague.

[ujayujay]

12 hours ago, Dagnabbit said:

There should be nothing to pay.

Sent from my SM-A720F using Tapatalk
 

Dream on.........

[ujayujay]

9 hours ago, bangkokheat said:

dont give the blood sucking vampires anything

Who'  this? .....Great Britain?

[naboo]

5 minutes ago, ujayujay said:

Who'  this? .....Great Britain?

It was renamed Little Britain about 13 years ago, but 52% of the population didn't cotton on.

[dundee48]

3 hours ago, dunroaming said:

Seems to fluctuate between 40 and 60 billion Euros.  Britain initially offered 20 billion but said they would negotiate from there.  Apparently it is not the actual amount they are arguing about rather than what is agreeable on the breakdown of the charges.

That's strange,it seemed to fluctuate between 80b and 100b euro a few months ago before the UK asked for a complete breakdown of how they came to that number.

EU crapped itself and backed down fearing an audit.

[dundee48]

1 hour ago, naboo said:

It was renamed Little Britain about 13 years ago, but 52% of the population didn't cotton on.

Hahaha,a new remoaner tag team,probably from one of the many begging bowl countries.

[Khun Han]

2 hours ago, naboo said:

It was renamed Little Britain about 13 years ago, but 52% of the population didn't cotton on.

 

Thank you for your cheap shot against the UK. I'm sure it will be most helpful to the discussions.